Some reasons for optimism -- This off season hasn't been THAT bad.

by mtalken on Jan 5, 2008 8:40 PM EST

Players either let go or traded:

OF So Taguchi (38)
OF Preston Wilson (33)
OF Jim Edmonds (37)
IF Miguel Cairo (33)
IF Russell Branyan (32)
SP Kip Wells (30)
SP Mike Maroth (30)
C Gary Bennett (35)
C Kelly Stinnett (37)

New arrivals:

IF Cesar Izturis (27)
SP Matt Clement (33)
OF Brian Barton (25)
C Jason LaRue (33)

Numbers in parentheses are the players' ages. I know some of the signings have us scratching our heads and wondering if this "new direction" is lip service or reality. However, looking at the players on these two lists, it becomes pretty evident that so far Mo has done a good job of getting rid of some of the aging or ineffective players on the roster.

Taguchi's obviously a fan favorite and had a pretty good career as a bench player for us, but he's a 38 year old version of Skip Schumacher. Should Schumacher/Taguchi be on the roster? Maybe. Maybe not. But at least this time, if one of them IS going to be on the roster, it's the one in his mid 20's, not his mid to late-30's. Wilson is gone, and I can't imagine any one of us is anything but happy with that departure. Same with Cairo and Branyan.

On the pitchers, neither Maroth nor Wells panned out last year, and while it may be a no-brainer, Mo didn't bring either of those pitchers back either, moving on from mistakes made. The two catchers, Bennett and Stinnett, both were the no-risk, no-reward type of players that Aaron Miles is, where they're certainly not going to hurt us, but they certainly aren't going to exceed the humble expectations handed to them as bench players.

Jim Edmonds is the only controversial player to move on from this list, and with the news that he wanted to leave, and with our outfield depth, this isn't necessarily a bad move either.

Now, look at the new guys. Two guys in their 20s, which if you look at the outgoing list, you notice NONE of those guys are in the 20s. Even Izturis, who none of us are overly high on, has SOME possibility for actually becoming better. Of the two older guys, Clement's actually a good investment. If he sucks, we lose less than 2M and we reject his option moving forward. If he returns to what he was at his peak, then we have a #2/#3 type pitcher.

LaRue is a guy we're buying low on. If he sucks, we basically have this year's version of Bennett or Stinnett, except better defensively. If he returns anything to his former state, then we have a viable option to fill in 40-50 games without a significant dropoff, giving Yadi more rest and allowing him to be more effective later in the year.

Overall, I know there are moves most of us disagree with, most notably the Aaron Miles resigning, but let's not lose complete sight of the fact that this off-season hasn't been completely horrible yet.

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Comments

I disagree

The Izturis signing alone is quite possibly the worst I can remember the Cardinals making (even worse than Tino, who was just overpaid), and this move with Miles basically means Izturis is the full time starter at SS. I had figured he might platoon with Ryan, but now Ryan won't even be on the team.

by DiscoJer on Jan 5, 2008 8:37 PM EST reply actions

That's an incredible over-statement

Even if you think the Izturis signing is bad, its a one year deal. I wouldn't over-react and call adding a good defensive but poor offensive player to an already shitty team the worst Cardinal signing ever.

by Ray Lankford on Jan 6, 2008 12:40 PM EST up reply actions

over-reaction, you think?

Calm down Francis. It's a one year deal.

by jjray on Jan 6, 2008 1:33 PM EST up reply actions

... but do agree

that Miles displacing Ryan as the utility SS compounds the problem. There is no backup option in place if Izturis continues his slide at the plate.

by jjray on Jan 6, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions

I can think of a few more that were worse...

Resigning Miles AFTER signing Izturis. Even for the money that's just plain dumb IMO.

Kip Wells '06 -- same money; terrible outcome (compare this deal to the Clement deal -- if he hits all the incentives it's still only $2 mil more for a guy with much better ability.)

Sidney Ponson '05 -- obviously a Duncan reclamation project, but he came in with more issues than Chris Matthews at a debate and he wasn't all that cheap.

Brett Tomko '02 -- Do I even need to comment on this one?

"I just wish that the late Harry Carey were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jan 7, 2008 12:03 PM EST up reply actions

This off season hasn't been half bad

I agree and I am one of the few optimistic people who think we have had a good off season..
Wasn't the Izturis contract only one year?
If Cesar has a bad spring he might not make the team and if he has a good spring we have him one year so what?
I think the Clement signing is brilliant high-upside and no risk its awesome....
The Larue signing was good I like his defence more then Bennet or Stinnet`s defence.........
I also LOVE the acquisition of Barton great job MO!
Now the Miles signing is the one bad part of this off season I just don`t get it one bit......

Overall I give Mo a B+ he hasn`t traded away any of our good prospects and he has added some players who could contribute.

by Calhoun on Jan 5, 2008 10:14 PM EST reply actions

for the most part,

+1 now for the Izturis signing: I still dont understand the signing of a player like him, aside from his defense. His offense is IMO abysmal as of late. We signed this guy when a player like Jorge Cantu was available; a guy with better upside and is (I'm assuming), cheaper. I don't disagree with the length of the contract btw, it wont hurt us down the road. Career #'s OBP SLG AVG Can2- .312 .450 .273 Iz2- .295 .334 .259

by yer dog first on Jan 6, 2008 12:30 AM EST up reply actions

didnt display how I wanted it to

even after previewing it, it didnt post correctly. Dangit!

by yer dog first on Jan 6, 2008 12:31 AM EST up reply actions

ok...

First of all, yes Cantu is better offensively by far but Izturis is a SS Cantu isn't....
So signing Cantu would not have helped our SS situation any... and from what I have heard he can barely play defence at 2nd.....

by Calhoun on Jan 6, 2008 1:05 AM EST up reply actions

Cantu

Cantu has shown the ability to swing it, but he's only played one full season, which was in 2005. Even then, his OBP was lousy. To make things worse, he's an absolutely dreadful fielder. He's not quite as bad as Ryan Braun, but he's not far off either. He's also a 2nd baseman, which the Cardinals already have. While I agree that he could add more than Izturis, that doesn't mean they should have signed him instead of Izturis. Mozeliak should have signed neither of them.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 6, 2008 3:20 AM EST up reply actions

One more thing

Forgot one thing....
Another reason I think this is a good off season is Mo has been smart enough not to give any overpriced veterans big contracts that we will regret down the road....

by Calhoun on Jan 5, 2008 10:20 PM EST reply actions

Hold your judgment...

... because the offseason is not over yet. I have the strong feeling that Miles' acquisition indicates that a trade is going to happen very soon, involving probably Rolen or maybe Ryan, so some additional backup in the infield will be needed to cover 3B/SS, due to actual lack of someone able to cover those positions coming from the minors.

Moreover, Miles is a goo bench player, so if Tony will use him that way, the acquisition is not so bad.

GO CARDS!!!

by SuperSeve on Jan 6, 2008 4:50 AM EST reply actions

We signed

Miles because we might be thin at 3B/SS? LOL

by plh903 on Jan 8, 2008 1:09 AM EST up reply actions

so far so decent

Mo - hasn't done anything that nets him a gold star in my book, but he has as you have pointed out, attempted to right the ship...

I still think the only real mistake so far this offseason was resigning LaDunc... I would have let them walk, but its a defensible move and I like havin em around... It just makes me wonder if they would have put the Kabosh on a trade Milledge or Dukes out of hand whereas a new manager might understand that these are buy low guys...

by Lawless on Jan 6, 2008 9:34 AM EST reply actions

I think we're

all just reeling from the Miles signing. As I said before I don't think he's such a bad ball player, it just seems like a step back because it limits the progress of our younger middle infielders. I agree with the rest of your post. I'm not mourning any of the old players let go, I'm excited about Barton,and am okay with Clement and Larue. Cesar is an interesting matter. Most of us are assuming, and we certainly have a right to, that he's the mediocre ball player we've seen for the past three seasons. The only way the signing works out for us is if he's not. What's odd is that nobody seems to really know what happened to him. There was the odd move by the Dodgers in replacing him when he seemed to be on the cusp of stardom and there were some injuries which I, for one, don't have a handle on. Some people have suggested that he could recover something of his old self if shown confidence and given a starting job. If the brain trust feels that he's physically okay and can benefit from the proper handling then I'm okay with that rationale. If they really think that the way he's played lately is better than they could get from Ryan I disagree. If it's another matter that Tony has a bee in his bonnet about Ryan then that in itself makes this a lousy off season. We are all anticipating a season that will test our patience. If we have a non contending team with Cesar, Kennedy and Miles providing mediocre play in the middle, Ryan and Hoff looking good at Memphis, Martinez and Greene needing to advance, and the guys behind them in the same boat then this will be an absolute waste of valuable development time.

by easy on Jan 6, 2008 11:35 AM EST reply actions

It's relative...

it hasn't been that bad only in comparison to the 07 team who were horrible. It'd be pretty hard not to be "not that bad".

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jan 6, 2008 12:31 PM EST reply actions

Statements from the spoiled

Let's face it. We can't win 100 games or win the World Series every year.

2007's team was not great, and no one will claim it was. It wasn't even really good. However, even in a bad year, we were realistically in the pennant race up until September. Next year, we have the ability to be about as good. It may not be great, but if our bad seasons are 75 win seasons, that's really not that bad. Afterall, just look at the other teams in our division, like the Pirates, Reds and Brewers, who have had crazy cold stretches recently of 90 and 100 loss seasons.

by mtalken on Jan 7, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions

And the

plan to switch roles with the Cubs fans is almost complete.

Like I've said a million times the team had holes to fill in 05, went unfilled. Layered on all the way to 07 while DeWitt was finally starting to turn a profit.

I've dropped so much money on the cardinals since I've been out on my own and this is how they use OUR money? There is no excuse to let THIS team get this bad...especially after setting an all time franchise attendance records ON TOP of getting an extra 30 million dollars just for hanging out??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jan 7, 2008 3:10 PM EST up reply actions

meh

I'm rather sick of hearing how cheap DeWitt is...

Since DeWitt took over in 1995, only one team in our division has really been close to us in spending, the Cubs. We outspent them by a measly ~$5M but we outspent the #3 team, the astros, by over $100M (IE, austin powers evil-overlord money), the Reds $243M, the Brewers $367M, and the pirates an astonishing $445M. If DeWitt was just about the profit I think he would have bought one of those teams, or ran our team like one of those teams. (data from usa today MLB salary database).

DeWitt has also spent plenty of money this decade. Again the only team in our division that was close to use was the Cubs, and we basically tied them over the last 7 years (outspent them by $500K). We never finished lower than 7th in the NL in spending, and we won the division and made it to the NLCS the first time that we were 7th, and won the world series the next. We were as high as 3rd and 4th in the NL '03 and '05 (6, 8 overall).

(Ironically, we finished 3rd the year we outspent the other teams in our division by the most...)

We also have more playoff appearances in that time frame (95-07) than any team except the Braves, so it was money well spent.

It's very easy to go back and pick out a deal we didn't make- Burnett, Renteria, etc- and by just looking at the deals we missed on, you'd be right to say we made mistakes there from a baseball perspective, but we were likely operating very close to the margins most of the last few years. You also have to take into account the ones we DID make, like locking up pujols, edmonds, rolen, carpenter, etc. Our problem right now is injuries and poor farm system development by the previous GM, not "cheap owner".

the bums will always lose...

by SleepyCA on Jan 7, 2008 7:56 PM EST up reply actions

i need an edit button!

"Ironically, we finished 3rd the year we outspent the other teams in our division by the most...)"

Actually this was poorly worded- it should be "finished 3rd the year we ranked highest in spending amongst NL teams". In terms of actual dollars we outspent the cubs by more in '01 and '05.

the bums will always lose...

by SleepyCA on Jan 7, 2008 8:03 PM EST up reply actions

Mo is doing a good job

getting the team ready for '09.
Too bad we have to watch '08 first.

by That's a Winner on Jan 6, 2008 3:09 PM EST reply actions

no we dont

i for one am tired of all the lies & spin coming out of Busch. i am seriously considering taking a year away from baseball because of it.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jan 7, 2008 1:47 AM EST up reply actions

Whoa..

I wouldn't miss '08 for anything, I mean there possibly could be a Rasmus sighting.
You need to take a chill pill don't take things so seriously it is just a game.
I might be pissed off if this team was doing things differently.
Don't overpay for any veterans keep most signing to 1-year and develop talent in the farm.
Slowly but surely things are getting better.

by Calhoun on Jan 7, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions

Cheapskates

You have to work really hard to get excited about any of the offseason moves. They've basically just filled holes they had to fill with castoffs from other teams and reclamation projects. Some of you act like you're getting paid to guard Dewitt's vault. The Cubs and Astros are dropping 100 mil on guys like Sorriano and Lee, and then turning around and picking up Fukodome and Tejada. Those moves may not win them a series or pay off in the long run, but at least they are giving their fans something besides the same lame promises year after year.

What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs. ~Harry Caray

by Tupelo on Jan 7, 2008 7:33 PM EST reply actions

Let them eat cake!

I'm much more concerned with the long-term success of the franchise than whether fans have some new toy to drool over.

Aside from bring back Miles, who'll hold Jose Martinez back at AA for 2008, you'll hear no complaining about any of the moves we've made or not made.

One hope I've got on the back burner is that Selig had some dirt on Jocketty that he could use to keep him from going over slot on draft bonuses the last several seasons and that Mozeliak won't be similarly inhibited. If we draft "too safe" in June, then I'll put a toe up on the cheapskate bandwagon.

by liam on Jan 7, 2008 8:23 PM EST up reply actions

Few complaints...

but certainly nothing to generate any optimism. I have no real problem with the moves, but there's certainly no "impact bat" to protect Pujols, no leadoff hitter (and according to Mozeliak, they aren't even looking for one), and they still have a lot of question marks in the rotation. And don't get me wrong, of the guys I mentioned above, the only one I'd have had any interest in would have been Fukodome. But I also don't think they're about to start drafting Boras clients like Rick Porcello and throwing 3.5 million dollar bonuses at them. So how do we improve if they won't spend on the front end or the back? You can't preach player development and pass on the guys who will net you something in return.

What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs. ~Harry Caray

by Tupelo on Jan 7, 2008 11:00 PM EST reply actions

Mo hasn't done anything

positive aside from snagging Barton when he dropped in the rule 5 draft.

Just avoiding stupid contracts is easy. I know there are a bunch of people on this site that could do that. Mo hasn't made the team any better for the future and it seems like Tony has too much say, so I'm not impressed in the slightest yet.

by plh903 on Jan 8, 2008 1:13 AM EST reply actions

chips

Mo is pretty much stuck. Who do you want to trade?

Mo could trade Colby Rasmus if you want? That is about the only real minor league player the Cards have who is going to get you something to "make the team better", that is if you think the team would be better without Colby.

I don't get what you want? There has not been a lot of stuff to do this offseason and yes it may be obvious to do nothing but at least they are doing it.

by ICbirdfan on Jan 8, 2008 12:27 PM EST up reply actions

Mo's 2 biggest accomplishments

this offseason have been making the team younger and not blowing the incredible payroll flexibility we anticipate next year. Nothing stellar, but nothing stupid either. One year from now is the best time to judge Mo.

by Ray Lankford on Jan 8, 2008 1:47 PM EST up reply actions

Lots of young talent

has moved around. Milledge and Ludwick were sold low. The Miles, Izturis, and Pineiro contracts were awful. Molina might be getting an extension instead of selling high on perceived value. Duncan will be a below average LF thanks to his defense, and there's been zero talk of him being moved. Towers signed a great deal. Everett was the deal of the offseason.

Even if you agree with none of that, he's done nothing to improve the team and given crap players terrible contracts instead of rolling the dice on young guys like Ryan or Hoffpauir and potentially creating a controlled commodity.

Not signing Carlos Silva or Torii Hunter as your big pluses doesn't excite me.

by plh903 on Jan 8, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions

Ludwick = Quentin

Don't know why I said that.

by plh903 on Jan 8, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions

well, it was true

we bought Ludwick for the ultimate "low", ie a minor league contract. He's probably Mo's greatest find, so far.

the bums will always lose...

by SleepyCA on Jan 8, 2008 5:32 PM EST up reply actions

I'm still shocked that no other

team stepped up to pay for Adam Everett. Tango and MGL valued him at around 10M dollars. If the Cardinals were really concerned about their middle infield situation, they should have signed Everett rather than Miles -- that would have been a true impact signing this offseason.

by azruavatar on Jan 8, 2008 6:21 PM EST up reply actions