Scott Kazmir possibly available for trade

by showmejoe on Jan 5, 2008 7:09 PM EST Comment 29 comments

I read on mlbtraderumors.com that the Rays could possibly make Kazmir available for the right price. He would be a better option than Santana as he has 3 years left on his current contract and is younger. I would be in favor of trading even Rasmus, Anderson, and any other player not named Pujols to get a pitcher who could compete for a Cy Young in the next year. What do you think?

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by ridgesee on Jan 5, 2008 7:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

If you would trade Rasmus to get Kazmir

Then I sure hope you're not John Mozeliak posting under an alias.

by StanTheManFan on Jan 5, 2008 7:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

No No No No No No No No No

We are not contending next year. If we pick up a guy like Kazmir maybe he bumps us up from 72 wins to 76 wins, where does that get us? Certainly not worth mortgaging the future for. As putrid as some of our signings have been this year at least we're not blowing up our entire farm system to finish 3rd in the division instead of 4th like the White Sox.

by mikedallas23 on Jan 5, 2008 7:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Kazmir

has nothing to do with contending next year. He's 23 years old. He'd be the youngest pitcher on our staff. He'd be about the future.

I highly doubt the rays will trade him and that this is nothing more than rumors. But I'd be happy shipping ANYBODY from our farm (except Rasmus) for him. Kaz is something special.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Jan 6, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ditto

Except that it ain't happening in a thousand years. Considering the insane shelf-clearing deals that have been floating around out there, Rasmus would HAVE to be included, along with about any beating heart that is young and cheap with a shred of talent in the organization. This is the exact same situation as the Bedard talks from a month or so ago...

6 years of Rasmus+(whatever contributions from the players who would be included in said insane trade) > 3 years of Scott Kazmir's wonderousness and fearitude.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 7, 2008 3:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Kazmir

You'd think his value would lie somewhere between Haren and Santana, given his service time and performance to date.

The Rays would have to be bowled over to part with him heading into his first season of arbitration eligibility. As you say, they won't be bowled over by any package that doesn't include Corky Rasmut.

by liam on Jan 7, 2008 4:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There are two big differences

between Kazmir and either Santana or Haren. One, there are questions about his durability. He's had some injuries, and he's not as physically robust as the other guys -- not that this is a reliable predictor of injury problems, just something to think about. Two, he's younger, which in pitchers is not entirely a good thing. Yes, he has more of his career in front of him. But Will Carroll and company have shown that pitchers are more prone to injury if they're under 25, as Kazmir still is, and particularly if they're worked fairly hard when young. As far as I can tell, Kazmir's work load hasn't been alarming, but there's still the immature-arm concern. Haren and Santana are both through that.

Still, this is a guy worth pursuing, or would be if the Rays were crazy enough to be looking to trade him. I wouldn't trade Rasmus to get him, but anyone else in the farm system should be under consideration, as should most of the major-league roster (AP excepted, of course, and probably Wainwright and Molina). But do any of the possible deals make sense from Tampa Bay's perspective? Trades aren't made in a vacuum.

by StanTheManFan on Jan 8, 2008 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ok, but

kaz would be a great addition, as would bedard. question is what do we have the rays or o's want/need. my guess is not much. i'd vote no on sending rasmus for either.

by sportsman on Jan 5, 2008 9:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

No.

Not even. No.

by Jhusk on Jan 5, 2008 10:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Let's see

6 years of Rasmus + for 3 years of Kazmir? Hell, no! 6 years of Rasmus is worth more than Kazmir...period -- particularly since we're not going to compete next year w/ or w/o Kazmir. Thus, 1 of Kazmir's 3 years would be for naught.

by chuckb on Jan 5, 2008 11:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

it could easily be

6 years of rasmus vs 2 years of Kazmir and then however many years of the prospects we trade Kazmir for after he wins the Cy Young in '09. It would also put us in the position to extend him, which we are not in now.

Another factor, imho, is that Rasmus is not going to be a star his first year or two unless we wait until 2010 to bring him up. Kazmir's development time is pretty much complete; he's ready to plug into a contender and roll.

It's all academic, because there's no way Rasmus is enough for Kazmir right now anyway, but Kazmir for Rasmus is a trade you do, imho.

the bums will always lose...

by SleepyCA on Jan 7, 2008 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm

This road seems familiar...Has VEB been down it before?

Kazmir is a great, brilliant, wonderful pitcher. He throws thunderbolts and atomic bat-destroyers from his left arm. He's been very good in a very tough division. He's awesome, and I would gladly let my wife sleep with him if it were guaranteed that I could keep the kid and that it would have his arm.

HOWEVER: Rasmus is pretty much all the BOB has in the farm system in terms of legit talent, position wise. The kid is about as close to "can't miss" as you can get. We're talking Grady Sizemore, with maybe MORE power, and a sick glove in center to boot. At worst, the Cards get a guy with power and speed, and at best they get another Jim Edmonds. Those players don't grow on trees. And since the Cardinals are guaranteed to have him for 6 years at least if they choose, they should take full advantage of this situation. Scott Kazmir will make about 30 starts for three seasons, so thats 90 total. Then he's likely a Yank, Met, Sock, or Halo. Rasmus has the opportunity to play every day from 09-2015, making about 150 starts or so give or take...That's 900 games of Grady Sizemore for 90 games of Scott Kazmir. I think the choice is pretty clear.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 6, 2008 3:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd be in favor of trading for Kazmir

if it involved any player NOT named Rasmus, Pujols or Wainwright.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 6, 2008 11:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Nice

Are we getting Carl Crawford thrown in with that?

by That's a Winner on Jan 6, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think it's that far-fetched

to believe that Anderson, Garcia, Reyes, 1 mid-level and 2 lower level prospects could atleast get consideration from Tampa..especially if they aren't willing to pay him his worth.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 6, 2008 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If Mo

can get a deal like that I'm all for it. With whats been offered for Santana and what Haren went for doesn't seem like enough to me. If Reyes was comming of his '06 season not his '07 that might be enough. Just think, like every player we wanted this off season, that another team will offer more than the Redbirds can unless Rasmus is thrown in.

by That's a Winner on Jan 7, 2008 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the voice of reason has spoken

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jan 7, 2008 1:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

Hardcore then you wouldnt get him without one of those players lol

by Calhoun on Jan 6, 2008 11:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm aware

but maybe the Rays would be dumb enough to take 6 minor league players for him.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 6, 2008 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Probably not...

The Rays seem to be doing very well under new management as a rebuilding club. The rumor of Kazmir on the trading block really was that they "considered shopping him at the winter meetings" because Tampa Bay couldn't reach an extention last season. Given that Kazmir might actually compete for the Cy Young this coming season with his current progression, any deal will be difficult to put together. Tampa, however, still controls his rights for three years, so any return from St. Louis either would have to completely empty their farm system of promising talent, or it'll have to be a mix of well-performing veterans and good prospects in a deadline deal--and that's only with the Rays in contention for a playoff spot (in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox), if you can imagine them wanting to part with their ace in that situation.

by Forsch31 on Jan 7, 2008 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dumb idea

I agree that Kazmir is no joke and absolutely worth taking a look at. Giving up Rasmus though is the worst idea I've ever heard of. Kinda sounds like a Larry Pleau idea (for all you Blues fans out there). Bryan Anderson and Reyes may do it. Hell, even if we had to throw in Duncan, I'd like it.

Let's just look to 09

"And that's a winner. A World Series winner for the Cardinals."

by Bird Watcher on Jan 6, 2008 3:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

It would be interesting to know

just what the opinion of Reyes is among other scouts and front offices. It it's "a guy with real talent but a chronically sore LCL (LaRussa criticism ligament)," it might be possible to use him as the centerpiece for a Kazmir deal, sweetening the pot with enough minor-league talent to make it worth while for the Rays. I'm not certain that from the Cards' point of view, it would be a good idea to add Anderson, Garcia or Perez to that package, and I am quite certain that it would not be a good idea to include Rasmus. But other minor leaguers are fair game -- Joe Mather? Mark Hamilton?

There are finally beginning to be enough pot sweeteners in the system (some of whom, like Hamilton, are blocked by El Hombre and therefore could be traded with relative impunity) that something like this might be pursued -- if they can find a trade partner that still thinks Reyes might amount to something. So what are the other boards saying about him, if anything, and does anyone know what his scouting reports are like?

by StanTheManFan on Jan 6, 2008 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No moves let's see what we have this year 1st...

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jan 6, 2008 5:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Everyone is Dreaming

This is a ridiculous conversation, acquiring Kazmir while unwilling to part with Rasmus? Reyes as a "centerpiece" to a deal that would bring in the best young LHP in the AL?

I have the same ginormous man-crush on Colby as everyone else here does, but Kazmir's value far exceeds Colby, and probably our best 5 prospects combined. While it's fun to think about what all-stars we'd like to see in a Cardinal uniform, this reoccuring notion that B.Anderson, A.Reyes,B.Thompson, and C.Duncan is going to bring us impact MLB talent is a pipe dream. In real life, this package might coax the Rays to give us Dan Wheeler and a real nice Cashmere sweater if we're lucky.

by tomkmstl on Jan 7, 2008 5:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Oh come on!

I call bullshit on that dribble. There is NO WAY that package is worth a Cashmere sweater! That kind of thinking is irresponsible, I say! You should apologize to all the children, whose futures have been crushed by you suggesting that scenario!

That package is only good for Wheeler, maybe their backup C for the Single-A team, and a couple of fresh fish!

ahemSARCASMALERTahem...

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 7, 2008 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would hold out

for that cashmere sweater, sounds real nice. They don't need it, its hot in Tampa.
Maybe if we threw in the complex in Jupier, may be better than their park.
The Jupiter Devil Rays
Has a nice ring to it.

by That's a Winner on Jan 8, 2008 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good Point

Only if Kazmir's name rhymed with a breathable material more suitable to his current climate, i.e. Scott Shilk or maybe Scott Slattin...

by tomkmstl on Jan 8, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rasmus

Colby might be Grady Sizemore with more power. I hope so. He might also be Lastings Milledge without a bad rap album. He doesn't have an at bat above AA. We're about 4-8 months away from finding out, and if he tanks, we've got nothing. I'd give him up for 3 years of Cy Young caliber left handed pitching every day of the week. I'm sure there will be a Scott Boras client in the next draft with the same pedigree that we can draft in the second round when everyone passes on him. But Mo said on the radio that he's only looking for a left handed scrub pitcher and a power bat in the outfield. So we can forget about Kazmir and put in our Sosa jersy orders.

What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs. ~Harry Caray

by Tupelo on Jan 7, 2008 6:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Kazmir is not going anywhere.

The Rays are cashing in their farm to add missing pieces--they are gearing up in the hopes they can contend soon. Part of the reason that Kazmir hasn't signed an extension is that he wants to see the direction the team is going BEFORE he makes a long term commitment to them. They have added a lot of good players, got rid of their problems/extras, and they have a fantastic group of starters. They will not be dealing Kazmir to anyone this year.....this is just one of those rumors that is simply that-a rumor.

If the moves they have made don't improve their team this year, he may possibly be available next year. But I don't see them moving him at all this year.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jan 7, 2008 10:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs