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Around SBN: 2012 Africa Cup Of Nations Final

2008 Draft Preview- Part One.

A couple quick things, before the main meat:  

I don't think the Twins did very well in the Santana deal.  I don't know exactly what the other packages being offered were, exactly, but I think the Yankees' package, if accurate, of Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and another mid level prospect was quite a bit stronger than what Minnesota ended up with.  I think this may have been a case where a team outsmarted itself.  The Twins were trying to wait on teams to get antsy and up their offer sheets.  The problem with that strategy is that, if you choose to employ it, you have to be willing to go into ST, and even the season, without making the move.  Eventually, you'll get what you want; you just have to wait it out.  Unfortunately, it looks as if the Twins themselves got a little panicky at the lack of movement, and made a move for a lesser group of players than they could have extorted from a team that was desperate to stay in a race, or who had an injury come up in the spring, that sort of thing.  I also think this is a case in which the Twins took less, possibly significantly less, to move the player further away from themselves.  I understand that reasoning to a certain extent; there is some logical basis to it.  I think teams tend to put too much emphasis on it, though.  Especially when moving a player outside your own division, the talent you receive back should be enough to compensate for whatever that player should be able to do to you.  If that's not the case, then maybe you should reexamine the deal.  Again, I don't think that Minnesota played it's cards as well as it could have.  

All that being said, I don't think it's an absolute disaster for the Twinkies.  I really like Carlos Gomez a lot.  He's got 70 speed, a cannon of an arm, and enough bat speed that he should hit for better than average power.  I think he'll do a great job in center for Minnesota.  In fact, if you look at the Twins' outfield, they may have one of the best corps of flycatchers in baseball for the next 3-4 years.  Michael Cuddyer in left, Gomez in center, and Delmon Young in right is a terrific trio.  I actually like what they've done in the OF this offseason.  

The pitchers are a little more of a mixed bag.  Deolis Guerra has a massive upside, but he's really, really young.  (I think he'll turn 18 this March!)  Kevin Mulvey is at least interesting; he has a deep repertoire that he can throw for strikes, but his velocity, which was consistently in the low 90s up to 96 at Vanderbilt, is more in the 87-91 range now.  A guy who seems to lose stuff like that is very worrisome to me, no matter how good his other pitches are.  Philip Humber I'm just not impressed with.  He hasn't been the same pitcher since his TJ surgery, and I don't think his stuff is coming back after this long.  He's got a really nice curve, but that's about it.  I hope the Twins know something I don't, but it looks as if they took far less than a fair return for the best pitcher in the game.  It won't be a complete loss; they did get some talent back.  Just not enough, in my opinion.  

One of my personal favourites, John Marecek, has resurfaced on the radio on 550.  He was doing Sports Night last night, and I can only hope that he's going to be hosting it on a more or less regular basis.  We may finally be free of the Non Stop Noise Machine and his cohort Mike Claiborne.  One can only hope.  Congratulations to Mr. Marecek on the new gig; I for one am delighted he was able to stay in the market.  We need more intelligence and humour on the airwaves, and less volume, confrontation, and utter contempt for the audience.  

I'm not sure when the standard paradigm for sports talk radio shifted to where it is now, but it's absolutely horrifying.  There seems to be an attitude right now that the personality on the radio has to have an adversarial relationship with his audience.  Is this one of those Jim Rome things that I just didn't realise was as bad as it is?  I've tuned in to the aforementioned KTRS before, searching for Cardinal news and discussion.  Instead of intelligent debate, I'm subjected to the schtick of one John Hadley, (the non stop noise machine I referenced earlier) which consists entirely of this line:  

"I told all of you.  I've said it all along, but none of you wanted to listen to me.  You guys kept calling me, saying..."  

And so on.  It's an absolute wasteland.  Thank whatever powers there may be that it's not the only forum for discussion these days; I really don't think I could handle very much of what comes from mainstream outlets anymore.  It's sad when Kevin Slaten is one of the least rabid things you'll encounter.  Alright, enough of my soapbox proselytising.  

I'm starting my draft previews this week.  I know it's early, but I want to break it up into pieces, and I think now is actually a pretty good time to start working on them.  

Star-divide

There are a handful of things in life that I'm really passionate about.  Analog audio media.  Art deco and midcentury modern architecture.  The decline of the American male's sartorial sense.  And, unfortunately for me friends and family, the baseball draft is quickly moving up the list, from simple hobby to full blown obsession.  I say 'unfortunately', because I rarely shut up about things I'm really interested in, and I'm sure none of them really need to hear my opinions on anything else.  Luckily, I have an outlet for at least this one subject.  Now, if I could just find some sort of forum of people to listen to me ramble on and on about those other things...

Over the next couple of months, I want to profile some of the players that we could see the Cardinals take in the 2008 first year player draft.  As I said, I'm not going to do the whole thing as one giant lump post, the way I did with my draft retrospectives.  For one thing, trying to assemble all the scouting reports together would make for one hellaciously unwieldy post, and, two, to be perfectly honest, doing it this way saves me from having to come up with a new topic every week, no matter how slow the news cycle has been.  So you see, it not only makes sense, it's also a nice, lazy way to do it.  

I'm going to do about 3-4 players at a time, trying to group players together who are of a similar type.  I'm not doing them all in a row; I'll do them randomly, here and there, as we move closer to the draft.  I would like to profile about 15-18 players total, maybe a few more.  I think that should be enough for me to cover most of the players we should pay attention to as possible draft picks for the Cards.  

The Cardinals pick at #13 this year; it's their highest draft pick since 2000, when they took the unfortunate Justin Pope.  One can only hope they use this selection more wisely than they did that one.  Thirteenth overall is an interesting spot; there should be at least a couple of top 5-7 talents that fall, due to signability concerns, team needs, the moon's gravitational pull, whatever.  That being said, in a way, I almost wish the Cards had been even a little worse last year, and squeaked into the top 10.  I would feel much better about their chances of landing a real impact talent at, say, eighth, than at thirteen.  Oh well.  They're picking at thirteen, and there's nothing to be done about it.  They also have a supplemental first round pick, at number 37 overall, as compensation for Percival signing with the Devil Rays.  Thank you, Percy.  You'll always have a special place in my heart.  

There's one player in particular that I absolutely cannot make up my mind about.  So, I thought I would start with his category.  We're going to kick it off with three collegiate, left handed pitchers.  

Brian Matusz- LHP, University of San Diego  
6'4"   200lbs.  
DOB: 11th February, 1987
Player Page

Matusz is probably the best lefthanded pitcher in the draft this year.  He had a great career in high school, then surprised many people by going to college, turning down a contract offer from the Angels.  

So, what's so great about this guy?
Matusz has a really great combination of stuff and command.  He's often compared to Mark Buerhle, due to some similarities in their styles, but Matusz's stuff is better than Buerhle's.  He throws a fastball that sits in the 88-92 range comsistently, topping out at 94 occasionally, with great movement down in the the zone.  He commands his fastball well, moving it to all parts of the strike zone.  He throws a curveball that's average or maybe a tick better, and he does a nice job of spotting it.  His best pitch is his changeup.  He throws it with the same arm speed as his fastball, and it has a nasty finish to it, fading and tumbling out of sight.  He's got great size, (that 6'4" frame should be able to hold some more mass) great athleticism, and repeats his delivery beautifully.  

In 232 college innings, Matusz has struck out 277 batters, against 83 walks and 193 hits.  That's an excellent sign that this guy has the stuff, the control, and the aggressiveness to be an impact pitcher in the major leagues.  He may not have the big time velocity you would expect from a staff ace, but he projects to pitch toward the front of a rotation, and soon.  

Really, the only problem with Matusz is that there's very little chance he's still around when the Cardinals pick.  Plenty of things can change between now and June, though.  If he has a lackluster spring, he could fall just far enought for the Cards to grab him.  If he does, I would suggest they take advantage of the opportunity.  I know I've said I'm much happier about picking high school kids early in a draft, but Matusz is too talented to pass up if he did manage to fall as far as pick 13.  

Cole St. Clair-LHP, Rice University
6'5"   225lbs.  
DOB: 30th July, 1986
Player Page

Cole St. Clair is an interesting case.  He's a college senior, and has served as the Owls' closer.  Still, there's a pretty large faction in the scouting community that thinks he's a starter waiting to happen, due to his three pitch repertoire.  St. Clair suffered a biceps injury in the early part of 2007, keeping him out of games for quite a bit of the year, and depressing his stock.  He was selected in the 7th round by Cleveland, but chose to return to school for his senior year.  

So, what's so great about this guy?  
St. Clair is a big bodied, slinging left hander.  He throws his fastball in the low 90s range, touching up to around 95 at times.  He has a putaway slider in the mid 80s that has unusual depth.  Intriguingly, he also has shown a plus changeup occasionally, but the pitch remains inconsistent, as he doesn't throw it very often as a reliever.  He further complicates matters for hitters with an odd, funky delivery, with a long pause at the top of his leg kick.  (I've seen video of it, but can't find anything decent at the moment.  If anyone knows of a good clip, I would appreciate the link help.)  

St. Clair has been extremely hard to hit in his college career.  In his 176 innings, he's only given up 105 hits.  Along with that, he has walked 54 batters, and- get this- has struck out 231(!).  

While he's been very good as a stopper in his collegiate career, a lot of scouts don't see his stuff profiling well as a closer in pro ball, and project him in more of a starting role.  If he could develop some consistency with his changeup, and prove he could handle the workload, he would make a very intriguing draft pick.  

There are a couple caveats.  One, I'm not particularly crazy about drafting pitchers from Rice.  Now, that may sound a little odd, but the number of pitchers who have been drafted out of Rice, and needed surgery shortly before or after, is astounding.  I don't know if they overwork pitchers, or if they're teaching some little mechanical lesson that's causing problems, but I don't like the Owls' track record at getting their pitchers injured.  St. Clair has worked primarily out of the pen, though, so that's maybe a little less of a concern.  He has an odd delivery as well, though, with a lot of movement and slinging arm action.  To me, St. Clair has to be considered at least a bit of an injury risk.  

As a college senior, St. Clair won't have a whole lot of leverage in the draft.  That means there's a good chance he may sign for somewhat below slot.  I'm not sure that should be a huge consideration, but it will factor in.  Taking him, and bringing him into the fold for a little less might help smooth the way for a bigger financial reach somewhere else.  Personally, I would be leery of taking him in the first round.  The Cards have a surplus of relief arms, although mostly right handed ones.  If you were absolutely sure he would stick as a starter, then even the medical history wouldn't worry me as much.  If St. Clair were still sitting there in the supplemental round, I would call it a pretty nice pick.  If he were taken in the second, I would say that the Cards stole him, even if they kept him in the pen.  But in the first round, I think he would be a reach at 13, and I wouldn't like the pick there.  

And last, but not least,

Christian Friedrich- LHP, Eastern Kentucky University
6'3"   208lbs.  
DOB: 8th July, 1987
Player Page

Friedrich is the player I referenced earlier, who is giving me such trouble figuring out what I think about him.  First off, check out the scouting report, as well as the video of his delivery, over at Cape Prospects.  I'm not sure who the guy is that does that site, but he's done a really nice job on it.  Great videos and nice scouting reports.  He says he's looking to eventually land a job scouting professionally; I hope he gets the chance.  He does good work.  

So, what's so great about this guy?  
Friedrich is known for basically one thing, and one thing only: the curveball.  His curve is an absolutely devastating pitch, allowing him to carve up batters and rack up the strikeouts.  In his college career, he's thrown 232 total innings.  In those innings, he has allowed 153 hits, while striking out 307 batters.  That second number is the one that really jumps out.  A guy who can miss bats like that is doing something majorly right.  His walk totals are a bit high, at 89, but that still only gives him a WHIP number slightly over 1.00.  His curveball, at this point, already earns grades of 65 or 70.  It's a true 12 to 6 downer that just disappears.  After that, though, we start to see some problems.  

There seems to be a marked lack of consensus as to exactly how good the rest of Friedrich's stuff is.  I've seen scouting reports that have him in the 88-92 range, that claim he's touched 94 at times.  I see a lot of reports that have him sitting around 88 or 89, touching 91.  And I've also seen some, mostly more recent, unfortunately, that have him more in the 86-88 range.  I'm not exactly sure what to make of all this.  Regardless, I think it is pretty clear that he is not a hard thrower.  He throws a changeup with nice arm speed, but the movement isn't anything to write home about.  In fact, his movement in general, outside of that death from above curve, is below average, maybe average at best.  Take a look at his mechanics in that video.  He has an easy, simple, effortless delivery, with an extremely high release point.  That delivery should make him durable, and allow him consistency, but he's never going to get much movement on the ball.  From an arm slot that high, it's hard to throw a sinker, because you can't turn the ball over very easily.  It's almost as hard to cut the ball; coming straight over the top like that, you almost have to pull straight down through the ball.  The same holds true for a changeup; you can get nice speed separation, and maybe some sink, but not that nasty fade that really makes a great change.  With his arm slot, Friedrich doesn't project to improve his stuff a whole lot.  Fortunately, his curve may just be good enough to make up for it.  

So we've got a player with a wicked curveball, a fastball with below average velocity and movement, a change that has great arm speed, but not a lot of life to it, and an easy, low stress delivery.  In short, Friedrich is essentially a big tall version of Barry Zito.  I wouldn't necessarily predict the same kind of success, but the similarities, to me, are striking.  

This is where I start to have problems.  Friedrich hasn't faced the best of competition in college, so that makes me a little nervous.  However, he was dominant in the Cape Cod League, and that's as good a competition as a college player is likely to see.  More than anything, it comes down to this.  I love his numbers.  Based on the numbers alone, he should have a really nice career.  However, I fear his stuff.  He's got one great pitch, and then it drops off in a hurry.  How well is a mid- to upper-80s fastball going to translate to pro ball, especially one that's straight?  I wonder if, after you drafted him, could you drop his arm slot down slightly, to more of a high three quarter delivery?  It would improve his movement, make his overall stuff profile better. Then again, I don't like tampering with something that's working.  I go back and forth on Friedrich; I really can't decide if he's good enough to pick at #13.  

I think this is where I have to come down on Friedrich.  I think, with the quality of his curveball, the absolute worst case scenario for Friedrich is a top quality lefty specialist.  He's a very safe, solid pick, I think.  He's got a nice ceiling, but his floor is even better.  At 13, I think I could get behind Friedrich.  However, I think there are probably other choices the Cardinals could make that would be better.  I think I have to put him in much the same class as St. Clair.  If he were still somehow sitting around at 37, I would snatch him up in a heartbeat.  He's a perfect supplemental round pick.  I doubt he will still be there, but stranger things have happened.  At 13, I think I would look around and see better talents.  At 37, he would be an absolute steal.  Even at 13, though, in spite of my preference for more of a homerun swing, you could do a whole lot worse.  

I'm not sure which of these players will be available when the Cardinals make their pick at #13.  If I had to handicap it, I would say that St. Clair will still be there; Friedrich is probably about 60will/40will not, and Matusz will not.  I'm usually strongly in favour of going with high ceiling, prep school players early on, but none of these players really turn me off as an early round draft pick.  Especially at 37, I really like these players.  

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13th pick
If we're going to take a pitcher with our first pick, I really think he needs to be a guy that has front of the rotation potential. We are already pretty well stocked with bullpen and back-end guys in the system right now.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Jan 30, 2008 10:52 AM EST reply actions  

Agreed.
I much prefer the home run pick.  That's why I'm much more enthused about two of these at #37 than I would be in the first round.  Matusz, on the other hand, does have that top of the rotation potential.  
"An informed citizenry is the enemy of the despot, the zealot, and the sports columnist."

by the red baron on Jan 30, 2008 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Great post TRB
I agree we need a top of the rotation pitcher..... We really need a high-upside pitcher but from what this team has done in the past I dont know if thats gonna happen........

by Calhoun on Jan 30, 2008 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I was going to read War and Peace
today as a challenge, but this is much longer.  Excellent stuff as usual, TRB.
The hot stove is burning...

by cardzfan24 on Jan 30, 2008 11:04 AM EST reply actions  

Question
I have a question about the comment pertaining to Rice pitchers being injured...

I see on baseball-reference that the following major league pitchers graduated from Rice and played at Rice since 1995:

David Aardsma
Matt Anderson
Phil Barzilla
Tim Byrdak
Marcus Gwyn
Philip Humber
Kevin Joseph

That is everyone that played at Rice after 1995.

I know that Humber is coming off of TJ surgery because you wrote that above, but other than that...I have no idea on these other guys.

Thanks, as always, for your insight.

stlfan

by stlfan on Jan 30, 2008 11:10 AM EST reply actions  

And then...
Niemann and Townsend have gotten hurt.  Townsend is toast and Niemann is not the monster he once was...
Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Jan 30, 2008 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

rice pitchers
There have four pitchers from Rice this decade who have been first round draft picks, I believe.  All four have required major surgery.  

Humber- Tommy John
Jeff Niemann- shoulder, I think
Joe Savery- shoulder
Townsend- shoulder(?)

"An informed citizenry is the enemy of the despot, the zealot, and the sports columnist."

by the red baron on Jan 30, 2008 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Aardsma
Has been a flop, and the fact that you've not heard much of any of those other guys is probably a good indication of what they've turned in to.  I would avoid Rice like the plague right now.  
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 30, 2008 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

+1
Gotta avoid Rice pitchers until their coaches stop chewing up SPs.

by Recon on Jan 31, 2008 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Santana
Two things I think we all need to be mindful of when looking at the Santana trade are:
  1. There is the very real possibility that the Yankees / Red Sox offers were not real, just a ploy between two organizations to keep him off of the other's team. Because if we here can see that the Yankees & Red Sox were offering better players, isn't it safe to assume that the Twins know that as well? They probably were never really offered.
  2. What was Johan Santana's role in all of this? He reportedly turned down 5/100 from the Twins, wants to play in the National League (so he can hit, which he does fairly well...) and has a no-trade clause in his current contract that he told the Twins he would not waive once the season started... Maybe he didn't want to go to the Yankees or Red Sox.. And maybe his desire to sign a 6/7 year deal (for 20M per) and play in the NL limited what the Twins could do..
It looks to me that the Twins hands were tied all along & they felt it was better to get 4 B prospects instead of 2 draft picks next year.
Just saying. Maybe we're all jumping on the Twins front office without having all the info...

As far as the draft goes, I'll reserve all judgments until after the spring, but that's a pretty good threesome up there.

Not as good a threesome as.....
ugh. sorry.

Boomer.
Boomer.

by glamboomer on Jan 30, 2008 11:43 AM EST reply actions  

Brian Cashman and Theo Epstein
aren't playing games of chicken despite what the media may say.  That's a good way to piss off fellow GMs by pulling out because you just wanted to keep the Yanks or Red Sox from getting the player.

More likely is taht Smith waited too long to make the trade and the Red Sox and Yankees rescinded them.  A trade of Cabrera or Ellsbury likely would have led that team to acquire a free agent centerfielder who are all gone at this point.

Bill Smith just didn't bite the bullet in time.

by azruavatar on Jan 30, 2008 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

no CF?
well, Boston would still have Coco Crisp and NYY would still have Johnny Damon.

i still think that Santana forced the Twins to trade him to the NL.

by kindred on Jan 30, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

hard to say exactly how it went down
santana had the NTC.  its possible he didnt want to go to boston or the yanks which basically forced him to the mets.  i guess its also possible that the boston/yank offers were never as reported.  i think the red sox/yank offers were real back in december.  the twins held out thinking they would get more teams in the bidding.  meanwhile, boston and the yanks get tired of waiting and pull out.  santana hinted he might use his NTC if traded during the season.  that kind of forced the twins to take the best offer standing, which at this point might have been the only offer.  its not a terrible haul, but its just not what you would expect in return for santana.  

by dmb60614 on Jan 30, 2008 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

there's more info out now
See: Klapisch: Yanks give Mets big assist.  This almost sounds like something Smith could complain about tampering over...

I do agree with Klapisch's conclusion; Smith blew this deal.  Once the evil empires backed out he should have waited and dealt Santana at the deadline, or better yet, he should have traded Morneau and Cuddlyer and resigned Santana for whatever he wanted.

by SleepyCA on Jan 30, 2008 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Makes sense...
I also think Klapisch is right on the money here, he also writes great print and makes sure he knows his stuff.

The next to last paragraph makes sense to me re: Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy. The more they looked at the potential AND the money involved, the more sense it made to back out quietly. I wonder when this all caved in on Smith, bet it was a real bad day to sit in his chair.

Also agree, a deadline deal would have yielded much better results?  Why didnt he wait? Your #2 trade scenario with Morneau and Cuddlyer might have kept Santana home for a while as well.

If we can't be good, can we at least be lucky?

by cardschinmusic on Jan 31, 2008 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

And a question....
Is Gomez the real deal? Seems he's been pushed thru the Mets organization and has been getting mowed down by improved pitching as he goes up the ladder. I think Ellsbury may have been a better prize in the long haul.
If we can't be good, can we at least be lucky?

by cardschinmusic on Jan 31, 2008 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

As far as drafting goes
if you are proposing we draft a left handed pitcher who could be at the top of our rotation for years to come, I am against it.  Didn't we just trade for one of those guys a few years ago anyway?

/end sarcasm

The hot stove is burning...

by cardzfan24 on Jan 30, 2008 11:55 AM EST reply actions  

This is what makes me sad
Why can't we target guys who live at 94 mph, touching 97 on good days, instead of guys that live at 88, touching 92 on good days?

I am full aware that movement is the name of the game but after 15 years of only 3 starting pitchers amounting to anything from the farm system, lets try taking the guy with the natural ability and teach him movement.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 30, 2008 11:57 AM EST reply actions  

Testify, Brother!
Take the talent.  You can teach all the other stuff.  You can't teach a guy to throw 96.  
"An informed citizenry is the enemy of the despot, the zealot, and the sports columnist."

by the red baron on Jan 30, 2008 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Bring the Heat
Baseball America did an interesting post recently which suggested that velocity ALONE is a reasonably good predictor of success: http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=705

Let's scour the California Penal League and see if we can't land ourselves a Rick Vaughn.

by bgodar on Jan 30, 2008 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Hell Yeah on Vaughn!
 
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 30, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

What?
This has to be one of the least-persuasive articles I've ever read.

What you have is a mix of pro pitchers and guys who never made it. In the first list, I count more misses than hits.

by thepainguy on Jan 30, 2008 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Extremely bad methodology.
I agree, not to mention the fact that that was a "top x" list with hundreds of other prospects who didn't make the list, and they say nothing about how hard any of the players that didn't make the list threw (or how many players who didn't make that list succeeded).

It's a shame, because it's probably a valid point, but that article does not prove it.

by SleepyCA on Jan 30, 2008 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Not ready for peer review, but...
This isn't a benchmark of scientific rigor, but I think there's still an interesting point in even this cursory study.

If five of the 13 pitchers from the '01 Prospect Handbook who threw above 98 became above-average MLB pitchers, that's clearly a better ratio than the entire population.  This doesn't show that velocity is the BEST predictor of success (which it surely isn't), nor does it try to.

I think the crude point is that velocity does have some predictive value for major league success.  I only throw it out here because the Cards seem so eager to draft pitchers with every quality BUT velocity.

by bgodar on Jan 31, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

They did!
They've tried to teach Reyes a cutter and a 2 seamer.  He refused to try the cutter and we all know about the 2-seam drama.  

Also, these aren't exactly guys being officially targeted, just three of the better left-handed pitchers who will for sure be in the draft.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 30, 2008 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Different opinion
i think that velocity is overrated. command, especially of off-speed pitches, is a better predictor of major league success. a pitcher must be able to command his fastball to all four quadrants of the zone, and must be able to throw at least one if not two breaking/offspeed pitches for strikes to consistently succeed in the majors. in a perfect world you target guys who "live at 94" and command their secondary stuff. however, those types of pitchers are hard to find at any level and are usually taken in the first few picks. given the choice between a guy who "lives at 94" and a guy who cammand an assortment of pitches while sitting at 88-92, i'll take the guy with the varied arsenal and "lesser" stuff.

by indakind on Jan 30, 2008 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Point made...
The pitcher you desribe above is the type of pitcher hitting instructors teach batters to defend against.
If we can't be good, can we at least be lucky?

by cardschinmusic on Jan 31, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

uhhhh....
So sorry...describe!

Dont want to be an IDed mis-speller too.

If we can't be good, can we at least be lucky?

by cardschinmusic on Jan 31, 2008 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

good post
On the Sports Radio stuff. I love sports on the radio. And I'm young enough (33 years old) to be a part of the "younger" generation. But I don't want to tune in to hear an opinion/rant of some random radio talk guy. What does he know?

I also don't care to hear local call in shows. Again, I don't care what another fan thinks. I don't mean it to be rude, but it doesn't do anything.

I want information and good discussion. That's why I like Charlie Steiner's show so much on XM. His entire show is beat writers, radio guys, etc. who cover the MLB teams. They give information--not yelling, screaming opinions and challenges.

There aren't many shows like that sadly.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Jan 30, 2008 12:55 PM EST reply actions  

Hadley
is the definition of HOMER.  I found great enjoyment this past season on Sunday mornings listening to him talk to himself.  KTRS is partially owned by the Cardinals, so therein lies part of the issue.  He has a definite man-crush on LaRussa.  So I agree that sports talk radio in general sucks (although 590 KFNS morning show is funny).  The guy on in the afternoons on 590 is not fun to listen to in my opinion; he's overly opinionated and mean.  That's why I don't listen to him.

Let's keep the announcers out of it.  Rooney and Shannon are pretty good at calling a game; they're tolerable and seem to have a good relationship.  

And remember, if they keep score, Joe Buck will have the call.  I just wonder if Troy Aikman is busy during baseball season.  :)

"Dude, we're running out of stadium" - said on the way to our seats in Section 428.

by bukowski on Jan 30, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Hadley lost me forever
When he went into a hour plus long rant against "Vince" after the additional details surrounding the Hancock death surfaced.  Calling him "gutless wonder", baiting him to "be a man" and come on his show if he wants to talk about what he supposedly saw.  Inciting rage amongst all the followers that called in.  

It incited rage from me too, but for a different reason. John proved in one hour on the air why "Vince" was wise to keep himself out of the limelight.  Hadley was as irresponsible as ever that night, and I have done a pretty good job of avoiding him since.

As a disclaimer, I never really liked him before anyway.  How many times can one man say "Ultimately" in one show? More than you thought.  But that one evening sent me over the edge in regards to him.

Anyway, to the original point on the diary - Marecek is very sharp and I agree that I hope this means he gets a high profile spot on the pre and post game shows.  590 let another good one go there.

by Merry CRasmus on Jan 31, 2008 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Good Stuff, Red
I watched Friedrich's video and that curve is absolutely devastating.  I'm not a big fan of his arm slot, but if they tilted him down I doubt that curve would have the same action.  I think he's better off up there.  If nothing else he's got a career as a LOOGY already.  

I also looked at two guys from Mizzou, Kyle Gibson and Aaron Crow, and at Aaron Shafer, a local kid.  I was surprised to see Shafer, he's actually lost some velocity since HS, where he was sitting at 90-91 pretty consistently.  Maybe that was a conscious effort to back off for the sake of control, or maybe his arm injury this spring was worse than predicted.  I'd imagine Crow would show up in a later draft preview, no?

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 30, 2008 12:59 PM EST reply actions  

Shoulders
"I was surprised to see Shafer, he's actually lost some velocity since HS, where he was sitting at 90-91 pretty consistently.  Maybe that was a conscious effort to back off for the sake of control, or maybe his arm injury this spring was worse than predicted."

Unexplained velocity drops are usually indicators of impending shoulder problems.

by thepainguy on Jan 30, 2008 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Right
B/c it has nothing to do with the elbow injury he DID have this spring, or poor radar guns, or intentional backing-off for control reasons.  It's DEFINATELY shoulder issues...there is NOTHING else that EVER causes velocity issues but shoulder problems that are coming in the future.  
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 30, 2008 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Overly sensitive?
I think you might have been overly sensitive to his comment.  What he said was "unexplained loss of velocity" thus if those things you listed happened then you have an "explained loss".  Not everyone knows the injuries of every player.

by StLHugo on Jan 31, 2008 8:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Elbow Problems
Elbow problems typically manifest themselves as control problems, not velocity problems.

I was nervous as heck watching Carp's first start in 2007 and seeing that he couldn't throw strikes. That nervousness turned out to be well-founded.

by thepainguy on Jan 31, 2008 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Elbow problems
Im glad you make this point, I have a long running debate with a friend I will immediately direct to it.
If we can't be good, can we at least be lucky?

by cardschinmusic on Jan 31, 2008 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I will be honest
I never followed the baseball draft the way I do with NFL and NBA drafts just because I know alot of the players and they will be in the league the next year. It seems like every year I find out about the baseball draft the same way, "what there was a draft today, hum never heard of the guy." Thus I must thank you Baron, keep the scouting reports comming and that will change.

My thank you artdecoblog.blogspot.com

There's a blog for EVERYTHING.

by That's a Winner on Jan 30, 2008 1:20 PM EST reply actions  

I'm the same way
Though I don't follow the NBA, I at least pay attention to the NFL draft, always fun to see who goes first and all of that. I think its easier to follow, NBA and NFL drafts because you know the guys taken in the first rounds will probably have an impact or be in uniform for the Major League teams, where as with baseball you more then likely have to wait a year or two to see the results of even your early round picks. Though through this site and the educational/entertaining posts (such as todays by Red Baron, thanks for the time and effort) about the farm systems I'm beginning to understand more and get more out of the Baseball draft.Will the Baseball draft be Televised this year? I know the MLS draft was last year by ESPN, and if there's a market for those of us in the Niche that play football with our feet, I would assume they could get some people to pay attention to the baseball draft.
"If I managed the Cubs, I'd be an Alcoholic." - Whitey Herzog

by cyko42 on Jan 30, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

MLB draft was televised last year haha
I like following the draft as it gives me a HUGE advantage in fantasy when these guys start to filter up...BJ Upton and Ryan Braun saved me last year.
Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Jan 30, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice
It saves me too. BJ and Braun saved me last year as well. Lincecum helped on the pitching side.

by Carps on Jan 30, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

harder work
It is also harder work to follow college baseball or football, and a number of baseball draftees are directly out of HS, making it even more difficult.  If you like basketball or football, just turn on the TV to find out who's who.... don't have that opportunity with baseball prospects - you have to work alot harder to keep up

by cdb on Jan 30, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

HOLY SHIT
Wow. This post blew me away. Why? Because I grew up playing ball with Christian Friedrich. Seriously, all the way through little league, up to travel ball and Pony. In high school we played against each other. We're on speaking terms.

God, it's weird to see his name on VEB. Surreal.

by mojowo11 on Jan 30, 2008 1:38 PM EST reply actions  

By the way
Believe what you hear about the curveball. It's sick.

by mojowo11 on Jan 30, 2008 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Matusz
Hmmmm...a guy who sits low 90s who has a good fastball and best pitch is a change-up?  Did well in college?  Sounds vaguely familiar.

Does he wear his socks high?  

by RedbirdRay on Jan 30, 2008 5:04 PM EST reply actions  

Cole St. Clair
Cole St. Clair would be a terrible pick for the Cardinals. He's got the same mechanical problem (Inverted W) as his former stable-mate Joe Savery (and our own Anthony Reyes).

St. Clair was pretty much a consensus 1st-rounder last year until he hurt his shoulder.

He should be avoided at all costs.

by thepainguy on Jan 30, 2008 8:12 PM EST reply actions  

Rice
I've noticed and wondered the same thing about Rice.

I have a contact there who's a former pitcher. He says that guys are being recruited for their problematic mechanics rather than being taught those mechanics. Combine that with possible overuse and you've got a recipe for injuries.

Also, when did our own Eddie Degerman graduate from Rice?

by thepainguy on Jan 30, 2008 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Degerman
Was drafted in 2006.  Interesting, he seems to be the one pitcher from Rice who has completely dissimilar mechanics from the others.  

I don't know much about the coaching staff at Rice; are they all big Tom House devotees or something, that they favour these particular deliveries?

"An informed citizenry is the enemy of the despot, the zealot, and the sports columnist."

by the red baron on Jan 30, 2008 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey PG,
I have an observation based on small sample size that I would like your opinion on.  My son played prospect-level baseball in the summers with a traveling team from 15-18.  The guy in charge of the organization was really big on the inverted L, W, whatever and tried to get all the pitchers to pitch that way.

My observation is that some kids naturally throw that way from a young age and seem to tolerate it better while the kids who are "converted" are far more likely to have medical problems from it.  My kid couldn't physically handle that change and I am glad he didn't do it.  Still has never had an arm injury at 21...

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jan 31, 2008 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Inverted W and L
I don't doubt that the Inverted W and Inverted L probably DO help to increase a pitcher's velocity in the short run. However, I also believe that they will cut years off of a pitcher's career.

The problem with coaches like these is that they are oriented toward the short term. That makes sense for them given their incentives (to win) but is generally very bad for the kids they coach.

Also, there are anatomical differences between people (e.g. acromial clearance), which explains why some people can tolerate this better than others.

However, there is only one Inverted L guy, Don Drysdale, in the HOF and his career was probably cut short by 3 to 5 years due to shoulder problems.

by thepainguy on Jan 31, 2008 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Rice Coaches
"I don't know much about the coaching staff at Rice; are they all big Tom House devotees or something, that they favour these particular deliveries?"

I have asked but didn't get a definite yes.

I do know for a fact that a lot of the guys from there were heavily influenced by Mark Prior. I don't know if they believe that Prior's problems were related to his mechanics.

Also, remember that stuff like the Inverted W DOES work in the short run. The problem is that it's like running a car past the red line. It only works for a while and will shorten the life of the parts involved.

However, that often isn't a problem for college coaches since guys' arms don't tend to fall apart until after the draft.

by thepainguy on Jan 30, 2008 9:09 PM EST reply actions  

you know,
That's a really great point; it does seem as if the guus who fall into the 'W' mechanical category seem to have dominating college careers, maybe even their first year or three in pro ball, then their ahoulders just start to collapse in on themselves like dying stars.  
"An informed citizenry is the enemy of the despot, the zealot, and the sports columnist."

by the red baron on Jan 30, 2008 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Chris,
What's your opinion on Friedrich's mechanics?  I like what I see, in terms of long term health.  Elbow stays below shoulder level, I don't see anything funny going on with his arm in the back; looks like he should be able to throw a ton and not have much trouble.  What do you think?  
"An informed citizenry is the enemy of the despot, the zealot, and the sports columnist."

by the red baron on Jan 30, 2008 9:49 PM EST reply actions  

Friedrich
I can't say much b/c he's in play for 2008.

While he's not a terrible Inverted W guy, he's got some Inverted L in his arm action (ala Chris Carpenter).

by thepainguy on Jan 30, 2008 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Kevin Mulvey
VEB,

I love what I've read of the blog & comments so far.  I'm a new reader and huge Cards fan, but since he's a buddy from our recent alma mater, I have to begin our relationship by pointing out an error.

Kevin Mulvey went to Villanova...not Vanderbilt.  

Go Birdos

by danimalvu on Jan 31, 2008 5:12 PM EST reply actions  

Great post, red baron
I've been tied up with work issues and am a few posts behind, but I wanted to let you know I THOROUGHLY enjoy reading your draft posts.

This is great stuff.  You may just get ME interested in closely following the draft this year.

Keep 'em comin'!

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Feb 1, 2008 5:29 PM EST reply actions  

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