Molina extended 4 years

by erik on Jan 21, 2008 1:26 PM EST

Mr. Dramatic Homer himself of today's discussion signed a 4-year deal with an option for a 5th per the P-D. No word on how much. I like Yadier, who doesn't enjoy seeing him pick off a napping player at 1st or gun out Jose Reyes at 2nd? But I do feel for Bryan Anderson, who's likely going to become the superior player. I do think Yadier is probably a better hitter then his career line suggests, and last season we got a taste of it. 4-5 years seems like we're nailing him in for his peak and just maybe the very beginning of his decline, him playing the hardest position on the field and all.

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anderson

well, sort of knew this was coming. with tlr only on board for 2 years, though, this ishopefully structured as a very tradeable contract. if anderson progresses, we may yet see him in red. i can imagine he is kind of depressed right now, but hopefully he ends up being inspired to "show them" he also has what it takes. we are certainly not in a position to give away any offensive capability and i hope this is not a prelude to sending anderson elsewhere.

by sportsman on Jan 21, 2008 1:47 PM EST 0 recs

Terms?

Do we have any idea what the salary figures are? Haven't been able to find it anywhere.

Re: Bryan Anderson - I remember a discussion about a possible position switch for him. Does his bat have enough potential for him to be an offensive asset elsewhere? Maybe 2b a la Biggio?

by airhad on Jan 21, 2008 1:49 PM EST 0 recs

anderson does not want to move

and no, i can't really see him at 2nd.

I hate... so much about the things that you choose to be.

by erik on Jan 21, 2008 1:57 PM EST up 0 recs

Well...

I guess (depending on the terms) what Mozeliak has done is hedge his bets. Assuming Molina's contract is relatively friendly this gives us some cost control. If Anderson continues to develop then we have a tradeable asset in either Anderson or Molina. If Molina declines or is injured we have insurance in Anderson. Not a bad problem to have.

by airhad on Jan 21, 2008 2:02 PM EST up 0 recs

yes, second to the line...

"you can't have enough pitching" is the line "you can't have enough catching" in the pipeline, as it were.
Yadi gives me fits, but I guess I am happy that it is settled rather than be an unresolved issue for discussion.

by the Tewk on Jan 21, 2008 2:54 PM EST up 0 recs

Hey.

Yadi is a great player. Hopefully his bat comes along this year but his Defense is top notch. I know he had some problems with passed balls but he is way more polished than Anderson. There is no gaurentee that Anderson will progress defensively and if he does then great. There will be plenty of room for both or the worst is we trade one of the two. I like the depth. $$$ in the deal of course will be very interesting to see. But in summation I think it's another great job by Mo signing Yadi to a potentially 5 year deal.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jan 21, 2008 2:00 PM EST up 0 recs

From the P-D article...

Financial terms of the contract were not immediately disclosed.

"The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it."

by cardsrul on Jan 21, 2008 2:16 PM EST up 0 recs

NTC?

Let's hope Yadi's contract does not include a gratuitous NTC. Under Walt, the Cards were throwing around no trade clauses like manna from heaven. If Anderson pans out, some team making a push may see Yadi as an indispensable last piece to their club. Who can say but it would be nice to keep all options open as this team retools.

by jjray on Jan 21, 2008 2:06 PM EST 0 recs

I really believe

that an extension like this for Yadi makes him more tradeable, not less. The Cards have bought out 1 year of free agency and have an option on the 2nd. If Anderson turns into the player we expect him to, the Cards are likely to receive more in return for Yadi than they would have had they not signed him to the extension.

by chuckb on Jan 21, 2008 2:10 PM EST 0 recs

Depends on when Anderson's ready...

If the club expected Anderson to be ready in '08 or probably even '09, I would think Yadi would be more tradable without the long-term deal, given 2-3 years of arbitration.

But, if they don't expect Anderson to be ready for everyday MLB duty until after '09, I agree this looks to make Yadi much better trade bait. If we put him on the block after the '09 season, he'll be 27 and under contract for 2-3 years at what will surely be below market value. That sounds like a very valuable chip.

by bgodar on Jan 21, 2008 5:27 PM EST up 0 recs

meh

The problem with buying out a year of free agency is that Bryan Anderson will likely be able to start starting in 2010 (giving him another year @ AAA and one year being Yadi's backup). We have Yadi cost controlled for another 3 years, it seems like it would be a smarter move to wait at least a year to see how Anderson performs at AAA and if Yadi's offense from 2007 season regresses.

by maurerdj on Jan 21, 2008 2:14 PM EST 0 recs

terms

per the AP---

Molina gets a $250,000 signing bonus, $1.75 million this year, $3.25 million in 2009, $4.25 million in 2010 and $5.25 million in 2011. The deal includes a $7 million club option for 2012 with a $750,000 buyout, and the option increases to $7.5 million if he is traded.

I hate... so much about the things that you choose to be.

by erik on Jan 21, 2008 2:17 PM EST 0 recs

That looks eerily similar...

to the numbers that were being suggested on this board the other day...was it Superseve? 4 yrs - $15 mil.

I have to say I think this is a great deal for the Cards. If Yadi continues to play at the level he played last year offensively and defensively he is valuable as a keeper or as trade bait.

I'm still thinking he puts up a 285/340/400 line this year...

Thanks for the highlight moments 15 and 27!!!

by cardzfanbub on Jan 21, 2008 2:27 PM EST up 0 recs

And I thought...

... to be cheap!! Yes it was me suggesting 4/15. But this contract is even better with the optional year, the price is reasonable and, if Yadi would keep a 285/330/400 line for the next two seasons, his value on the market would be great and I would trade him in a heartbeat, if Anderson is really ready to step in.

Nice job Mo, the patient hitter often get on base.

GO CARDS!!!

by SuperSeve on Jan 21, 2008 4:17 PM EST up 0 recs

answers the NTC question

Thanks for the post Erik. Looks like they haggled on the NTC issue and the Cards held firm agreeing only to a modest accelerator if trade occurs. Here's hoping young Mr. Anderson progresses in Memphis this year giving the club a pleasant personnel dilemma to mull over.

by jjray on Jan 21, 2008 2:58 PM EST up 0 recs

I have been one of the nervous ones

when it comes to giving Yadi a longish term deal, but I like this one. Seems like security for Yadi with possible upside for the ballclub.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jan 21, 2008 9:05 PM EST up 0 recs

$15.5 million over 4

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-01-21-1183433218_x.htm

by birdsonthebat on Jan 21, 2008 2:18 PM EST 0 recs

I don't understand why anyone would see this as

a bad move. Yadi is a great ball player. Anderson isn't even close yet. At worst we get both or trade one for another piece.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jan 21, 2008 2:25 PM EST 0 recs

sorry, but i have to disagree

he's 21 and hit nearly .300 in AA. Sure, he fizzled towards the end but anderson put up a solid line skipping a level. I think he's closer then you think.

I hate... so much about the things that you choose to be.

by erik on Jan 21, 2008 2:51 PM EST up 0 recs

I hope Anderson proves me wrong

but I'm very happy with Yadi. I still think Yadi has some upside left offensively and defensively. He is only 25/26 years old. The worst is we are stuck with two highly talented younger Catchers. That seems to be a rare occurance amongst teams. Erik, how do you think Anderson compares to Salty?

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jan 21, 2008 4:25 PM EST up 0 recs

salty obviously is a better prospect

he will hit for more power and walk, but now he may permanantly move to 1b so that hurts his stock a little.

but anderson should be able to stay at C and hit.

salt's upside is something like .290/.395/.530 while anderson is more like .300/.365/.420.

it's interesting that both fizzled in AA as the season went on, catchers can do that given it's a demanding job.

don't misunderstand me, i think molina is just tapping into his potential offensively. he's suffered some miserable luck for a guy who hits a decent share of line drives. i think yadi's upside offensively is more like what we saw last season.

there's nothing wrong with having both, i just would hate to see anderson stashed away, or reduced to a start or two a week. i do think both hold good trade value and could be part of a deal that snags us a SS, so it's a good problem to have.

I hate... so much about the things that you choose to be.

by erik on Jan 21, 2008 4:37 PM EST up 0 recs

RE: The previous two posts

That's really not too bad when you consider the fact that contracts have been rising quite a bit over the last few years. I'm not sure resigning Molina was necessarily a priority right now, but hey, whatever.

I think this guarantees a trade in the future of either Yadi or Anderson. This gives the FO some time to really think about which one they want to keep. Assuming TLR hangs up his whistle (or the managerial equivalent...note cards?) after '09, Yadi is tradeable after '09 if Anderson turns into the better overall player. If Anderson flames out, then the team has a solid catcher on board for another few seasons.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jan 21, 2008 2:26 PM EST 0 recs

Two good catchers

under our control for the next five years, sounds like a nice problem to have. When you see the trouble other teams have had to find one starting catcher I think It's a great idea to lock up Yadi. I mean teams are trading for Jonny Estrada and hopping Michael Barrett will come back, I don't want the Cards to be in a fix like that.

by That's a Winner on Jan 21, 2008 2:35 PM EST 0 recs

Good catchers are a rare

commodity... If Anderson develops as Cardfans hope he will, you'll have two "starters" available down the road.

Given the heavy load of the position (not only do you have to "massage" the pitching staff, block balls, and throw out runners, you also take one helluva beating behind the plate...) I think having two guys to "share the load" is a reasonable option.

IMO, this move doesn't "block" Anderson at all; and you've locked in part of your new "core" through 2011.

Me, I'd like to see two legitimate MLB catchers on the roster; when Yadi gets dinged (almost inevitable given the position), then you're not stuck with getting (say) a Kelly Freakin' Stinnett out of retirement! (As for Jason LaRue bein' that guy in '08... meh, I doubt it, but who knows?)

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Jan 21, 2008 2:37 PM EST 0 recs

i like the way you think

goaler. catchers take a lot of wear and tear, and yadi has missed some time on the DL the past two seasons. it would be better then to have two good catchers that can keep each other fresh then putting all the load on yadi, only to see him wear down and having to depend on the kelly, stinnetts, cody mckays, einar diaz's and gary bennetts of the world.

I hate... so much about the things that you choose to be.

by erik on Jan 21, 2008 2:49 PM EST up 0 recs

2011?

Suppose Anderson comes up as the backup in 2009 after showing what he can do in 9/2008. He'd be arbitration-eligible to start the 2012 season, Molina's option year. If Anderson comes along at that pace, we should be locked up at catcher through 2015 or so.

Steve Hill or someone else should be ready by then, too, eh? Now if only we could get a productive pipeline at shortstop... and starting pitcher... then we'll really have a nice franchise to root for.

by liam on Jan 21, 2008 7:22 PM EST up 0 recs

"Then"

I mean 2012, to be backup to Anderson and the lore can be passed down from Matheny to Molina to Anderson to Hill/Catcher-Next.

by liam on Jan 21, 2008 7:23 PM EST up 0 recs

I'm impressed with the dollars

When I was jotting down my own figures, I was putting him closer to 20M than 15M. Solid move by the Cardinals and Mozeliak. With luck we can have the same problem that the Braves had with Salty and McCann.

by azruavatar on Jan 21, 2008 2:51 PM EST 0 recs

agreed

Regardless of who we think is deserving, having two good, young catchers is only a plus. I hope Anderson continues to take off and Yadi progresses. These are good problems to have and they tend to work themselves out in the long run.

If it means you trade one of the guys for another good player--so be it. That's the goal--to turn minor league talent into major league talent.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Jan 21, 2008 2:59 PM EST up 0 recs

exactly what i was thinking...

I hope we have the problem the braves had!

by lynx on Jan 21, 2008 3:00 PM EST up 0 recs

Great deal

If Yadi stays healthy it's a bargain for his services. We either have a good young left handed batter to spell or platoon with him or to trade for much needed infield help. I almost hope Anderson isn't so good that we have to make a deal. I can't imagine what it will be like having a real catcher spelling Yadier. Considering the limited options Mo's off season grade is at leasta B+, Miles notwithstanding.

by easy on Jan 21, 2008 4:07 PM EST 0 recs

If he doesn't stay healthy in years 2

thru 4 of that contract, it's still a bargain is Anderson progress to the player most expect him to be. The Cardinals have basically slotted $17 M over the next 4 years for the catchers position, whether it is Molina + backup, Molina + Anderson or Anderson + backup.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 21, 2008 4:31 PM EST up 0 recs

I dunno...

It's not a bad contract, but I don't think it's a bargain, either. And it assumes Yadi will hit like he did last year for the rest of the contract.

His brother Bengie is making about $5 million a year, and that was completely as a free agent.

by DiscoJer on Jan 21, 2008 6:11 PM EST up 0 recs

How about this...

Anderson learns second base as a second position only. Yadi gets the majority of the ABs at CA & when Anderson is not catching he plays second base/ utility infielder.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jan 21, 2008 4:28 PM EST 0 recs

Not Biggio

It kills me how many people keep bringing up 2nd Base for an alternative position for a catcher. 1 guy in the history of the professional game made that switch and he had extremely unusual tools for a catcher. Anderson is not like Biggio. His alternate position is likely to be the same as most other catchers. (LF,1B,3B)I am not sure his bat makes him that attractive anywhere else but catcher.

Let's not get too excited about Anderson yet...I believe he slugged under .400 at AA last year, didn't he?

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jan 21, 2008 6:16 PM EST 0 recs

EB smack?

Not only the SLG, but his inability to get the extra base hit at Spgfld was apparent. Career avg. for getting the extra base hit is something like 1 for 13 ABs (12.8). This is hardly ever mentioned re: Anderson by anyone pro or con.

If we can't be good, can we at least be lucky?

by cardschinmusic on Jan 22, 2008 7:07 AM EST up 0 recs

I am not saying he starts at 2B but that he plays

part time at 2b & Catcher. He can pick up Extra at bats by filling in for the regular 2B as needed.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jan 21, 2008 6:20 PM EST 0 recs

Likely to Become the Superior Player - Please

I love this board, but the unrealistic expectations for our minor leaguers amazes me. Yadi is one of the best catchers in either league and showing signs of improving at the bat.

How about Anderson play a few games in AAA or maybe even in the Show before we crown him as Johnny Bench.

Yadi is a game-changer. He fundamentally alters the approach of the opponents we play.

Kudos to the Cards for recognizing this. And if Anderson proves out, even better for us.

by The Duke on Jan 21, 2008 7:41 PM EST 0 recs

I agree

before saying this is a crap deal, let's see how Anderson fails in AAA. We were hardly talking about him last year, now he's our franchise's future.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Jan 21, 2008 9:14 PM EST up 0 recs

Over the top...

You don't have to be Johnny Bench to be better than Molina.

Yadi's a good defensive player, and has the best arm for a catcher I've ever seen...but when your career OPS+ is 69 you are not an elite player.

What "amazes me" is the group who thinks he is some sort of cornerstone/franchise type player. Or "one of the best cathers in either league".

IF Anderson develops defensively and gains a little pop then Molina's contract makes him even more tradeable. If not, then you know you have a guy that the manager likes that can really play defense.

I like the signing, but Yadi is, at his best, a slightly above average overall player.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Jan 22, 2008 1:14 AM EST up 0 recs

one of the best cathers in either league

I'm not trying to claim this to be true but think about it. In the NL what catchers would you rather have on the Cardinals rather than Molina? I can only come up with two, Martin and McCann. Does that mean he is the third best catcher in the league? Possibly so

by stl3bagger on Jan 22, 2008 2:39 PM EST up 0 recs

From someone who hated giving Mo the job....

He's really done a nice job so far with limited resources. He's made a few moves that I wouldn't have made, but overall I like what he's done.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Jan 21, 2008 8:18 PM EST 0 recs

Great move

Even though it was a no brainer, this could be Mo's best move thus far.

As far as Anderson goes, I'm going to take the wait and see approach. I understand he's hitting the hell out of the ball at a young age, but he'll never be Molina's caliber defensively.

by qwikimport on Jan 21, 2008 11:47 PM EST 0 recs