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4 more years of Good Ol'e Bud

what does the rest of VEB think about Bud being commish till 2012?

Star-divide

just wondering what the VEB community thinks about this. just when i thought he was on his way out, they (the owners) reel him back in.

i for one do not like this. i've never liked Bud & i never will. he has single handedly ruined the game i love so much & raised it to a whole new level,

AT THE SAME TIME

during his time in charge fan attendance has never been higher. tv ratings are equally as high. player salary's have blown the freaking roof right off. there are now 30 teams in Major League Baseball. to the dismay of many he added a wild card to the playoff system. all that's done is add an extra level of excitement to the months of September & October.

but also under his watchful eye, PED's have been thrust to the forefront of the baseball world. this is one of the the darkest time's for the game we all love so much. congress is holding hearings trying to find out who's responsible. the FBI is trying to get players to wear wires in hopes of ratting out other players. hall of fame career's of many players have been ruined, rightly or wrongly depending on what side of the fence you reside on.

why did all this happen? money. cash. coin. jack. moolah. the almighty dollar. players wanted it. owners really wanted it. so every one turned their heads the other way while players got huge, and home runs got out of control. suddenly 2nd baseman were taking 99 miles per hour fast balls on the outside corner & turning them into opposite field, upper tank home runs. can you honestly blame a AAA player who was on the cusp of making the big league club for taking the needle in the mid 90's? i can't. i would have done the same damn thing.

truly these are the best of times for baseball. and the worst of times for baseball. and most of it is thanks to that used car salesman from Milwaukee.

Bud Selig.

like it or not, we are stuck with him till 2012.

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Bud's salary
I had no idea that he made so much money.  I heard it reported that his current contract pays him $14 million.  That seems incredibly high, but I guess all the owners are raking in a lot of money at this point.

by OCCardsFan on Jan 18, 2008 11:05 AM EST reply actions  

Bud
I am tremendously biased but I think he is the best commissioner in pro sports right now.

There's something you didn't mention above: MLB Advanced Media, which came about on his watch. With a net worth somewhere in the $2-3 billion range, MLBAM is essentially like having another huge-market team bringing in revenues. Moreover, MLBAM is the most accomplished online sports wing of any of the big four sports -- and with the foolishness of the NFL tv deals, it looks to stay that way.

by sjoshi on Jan 18, 2008 11:45 AM EST reply actions  

whoops
That was supposed to say "With a net worth somewhere in the $2-3 billion range, and revenue approaching $400 million, MLBAM is essentially like having another huge-market team in the league.

by sjoshi on Jan 18, 2008 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd take Stern
Tagliabue was a great commissioner for the NFL, although obviously he's gone.  Goodell (sp?) is at least good as a disciplinarian, but we need more time to decide on him.

The NBA is down a little now, but still is doing very well, and has expanded massively during his time.  Stern also comes off as a stronger leader and has imposed economic rules on the NBA that prevents a team like the Yankees from simply outspending, but also gives teams the flexibility to retain players they developed through "Bird" rights, something the NFL's hard cap doesn't always allow.

The NBA has image problems between the rogue ref and some of the player violence, but when you consider the steroid scandal of MLB and players like Randy Moss, Pacman Jones and Tank Johnson in the NFL, the NBA's problems seem pretty minor.

Stern, in my opinion, is a better commissioner than Bud.  

by mtalken on Jan 18, 2008 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Accountability starts at the top
Everyone is asking for the players to pay the brunt of the consequences for the steroid era, but so far, almost no one in leadership has faced consequences for falling asleep on the job.

Selig should have been in the firing squad for PEDs and he should not have a job anymore.  I am extremely pleased about the financial progress the game has made, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that someone else can duplicate that feat.

I am more upset about the lack of leadership during the steroid era than I am happy about financial goals met.  I think another commish could maintain economic growth in the sport and also provide clear leadership in the steroid issue.  Therefore, Bud has to go.

The hot stove is burning...

by cardzfan24 on Jan 18, 2008 1:19 PM EST reply actions  

I agree 100% with what you said.
I'm not happy to see Mr. Selig re-upped.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jan 19, 2008 8:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm wondering...
Which regime is tougher to put an end to.  Selig or Castro?

by Merry CRasmus on Jan 18, 2008 5:08 PM EST reply actions  

Fidel makes longer speeches
I think he will out-last the Bud-ster.

p.s. is there any truth to the rumor that a small family of bats lives in the jowls of Bud Selig?

by the Tewk on Jan 21, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Good commissioner overall
I think Bud has been an overall good commissioner.  As stated in the original post, economically MLB is doing better than ever.  Some of that is Bud and MLB's doing, some of it is the U.S. having a crapload of disposable income and sports leagues all stepping up to take a chunk of it.

But for the actual game, the wild card, interleague play and the new divisional system are all good things.  The post-season is always tricky in sports, because you want to allow enough teams in that a decent number of teams that deserve a chance to keep playing actually get to, but you don't want to dilute the meaning of actually making the playoffs.  Baseball's system allows 8 out of 30 teams to make it.  That's an excellent balance, and fewer than any of the other 3 major sports (that includes Hockey, which arguably may or may not still be a major sport--regardless though, you actually still have a full roster of players with a pulse at the end of the season and you get to play Detroit in the first round.)

Bud's been a good commissioner overall.  

Despite this, I also agree that the PED's are a major weakness of his tenure as commish and I think he should NOT have been given the extension, but rather let go so that someone else can clean up the one big mess that he and the rest of baseball made during his time.

Bud's got a lot of weaknesses and I think his time is over, but it drives me a little nuts when people tend to be overly anti-Bud.

by mtalken on Jan 18, 2008 9:20 PM EST reply actions  

Bud has two HUGE
"stains" on his resume...

He'll always be the commissioner who "cancelled" the World Series in 1994; and the commissioner who called the All-Star Game a tie.

I believe he's decided to remain in the job precisely to be seen as the commish who "cleaned up" the PEDs issue... even though the problem began on his watch. I still am of the opinion that baseball takes too much flak from the MSM (and Congress) over PEDs, compared to the rest of the sports world... how does the NFL continue to get a "pass" when their defensive MVP (of a season ago) missed four freakin' games because of a failed drug test???

Remember that any pro sports commissioner is the employee of management, no matter how much power he holds. Why shouldn't MLB's owners want to keep Bud on the job? They're making more money than they ever have!

Neither Bud nor Stern nor Goodell nor Bettman represent their sport's fans, no matter how often they claim they do; they represent their team owners. Job One for all these guys is negotiating with their sport's players union; all (save Goodell) have failed; games have been cancelled; championships have gone vacant; the ticket-buying public has been alienated.

In Selig's case, '98's Home Run Derby made baseball popular again. He had every reason to ignore any warning signs that the "burst" of homers was coming because of the widespread use of "performance-enhancing" drugs (some of which were illegal under Federal law, some of which were not at the time.)

Selig may even "crack down" on one of his employers, if the stories about a possible suspension for Giants' owner Peter Magowan are true. I'm of the opinion that Selig is trying to paint the "Steroid Era" as the fault of the players and their dastardly union... while the "fault" should extend to management as well.

But he's made baseball's owners a lot of money; so he's done the job he was hired to do!

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Jan 19, 2008 11:57 AM EST reply actions  

heh
The All-Star game that ended in a tie is hardly a stain.  People hardly remember or care about it now.

You're right about two stains though, and you're right about what the other is.  The 94 WS, if I remember correctly, was due to a walk-out of the players, not a walk-out of the owners.  It still stays on his resume, because he was the commish at the time, but that's not really his fault.

The other, is of course, the steroid issue.    Of course, you do make the case for why there was wisdom in ignoring all the signs.

by mtalken on Jan 21, 2008 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

'94 Season
was canceled because of an owners lock-out, granted they were trying to beat the players to it because they were talking strike at the end of the year.

by That's a Winner on Jan 21, 2008 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Good and Bad
Integrity of the game: This is why Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson are not in the Hall of Fame. There is no proof those guys actually did something to fix any games. Yet during Selig's watch, there is no such thing as integrity of the game. Cheaters in every major and minor league organization. They have made every statistic and every win and loss suspect. How many AAA ballplayers have struggled to make ends meet on small paychecks while less talented guys juiced their way past them. I have heard Jason Giambi apologize, but he hasn't given back his MVP award or the $100+ million in salary during his career.

Also during Bud's great run, he has allowed the most disgusting economic disparity in the history of any professional sport. I realize that fans of the Yankees and Red Sox think it is fair that they have 10X the budget of the lowest revenue teams in the sport, but I don't consider a league to be credible when 1/3 of the teams cannot compete and a couple of teams can load their clubs up with 10 all-stars every year.

Oh, but yes, from a business point of view, he has transferred much more money from the fans' pockets into those of the owners and players.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jan 20, 2008 3:42 PM EST reply actions  

Game Fixing/ Gambling v. Steroid use
There is a huge difference between these two forms of cheating.  The problem with game fixing is that baseball relies on the intergrity of competition  (the notion that competition is real and both sides want to win), if that integrity is lost, these is no reason for the fans to watch.  The game becomes professional wrestling.  On the other hand, steroid or PED use does little to directly impact the sincere winning desires of each side.  Simply put its not nearly as importnat as game fixing or even gambling.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Jan 20, 2008 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Zubin
Great post as always. Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi, and many of these other guys would make excellent pro wrestlers. I guess we have a semantic difference of opinion on the word "integrity". You say it is a real competition and both sides want to win. I would add that "real competition" includes both clubs and all of their players playing by the rules of the game. PED use makes the playing field unfair and undermines the integrity of the game. The team following the rules is at a severe disadvantage no matter how much they want to win.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jan 21, 2008 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Elvis sighting
hooray for your points:  you especially strummed my string with:
"...the most disgusting economic disparity in the history of any professional sport."

Though I understand that reasonable people can put up a good defense of Selig's tenure (and a commish is, inherently, a shill for the owners) it burns my crawl that for several years the Yankees, or the RedSox, or any other team can spend beyond measure, and, what? pay some sort of revenue-sharing "fine" for doing so?

Fine? hell!  It should be illegal, period.

The American League East in particular and the top-heavy American League in general have been a "competitive" joke for a decade or more.  As a Cardinal fan, and thus a National League fan, I can't keep saying, "oh well, that's the other league, I don't care."

And even with greater overall balance, the NL still has the Pirates, the "Huh?" Nationals, and the inscrutable Marlins.

The time for corrective measures is overdue.

by the Tewk on Jan 21, 2008 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Beg to differ
PED is cheating and does effect the outcomes of games. Now, I won't argue the Black Sox versus PED's to the full extent because of the players who lost on purpose, however, there is no proof that Shoeless Joe did anything to lose those games. He made no errors and hit something like .360 in the series. As for Rose, he only bet on the Reds to win. Had he bet on them to lose, that would be a different story.

As far as integrity...baseball is, and always has been, about statistics. These PED's have made a mockery of any statistics. As far as competitive integrity, take the steriods away from the late 80's A's and we probably have 3 other teams going to those World Series'. Same could be said for some of those Yankees' teams. Or how about the Astros beating the Cards out of the NLCS in 2005? Maybe without steriods, they miss the playoffs.

The people I feel sorry for and ones who should be sueing the league are the John Galls and Scott Seabols of the world who had to play most of their careers in the minors when they should have been in the majors, if the playing field was level. They have to work in the offseason while the steriod infested brothers live in million dollar houses.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jan 21, 2008 9:25 AM EST reply actions  

Rose
Elvis, you made the statement:  "As for Rose, he only bet on the Reds to win. Had he bet on them to lose, that would be a different story."

Here's the problem with that statement.  He didn't bet on the Reds to win every game.  Therefore, since he had control over how the players went into the game, who got days off when and against who, and other issues of this nature, he in effect, WAS betting on them to lose every time he didn't make a bet.

Here's a couple examples of what I mean:

  1.  You have an aging superstar who probably will be most effective if he plays about 145 games for you.  He's played in about 10 games in a row, so he's probably due for a rest.  You, as manager, have put money on the next game, but not the game after it.  What do you do with your superstar?
  2.  You have a closer who has worked 3 of the last 4 games, including last night.  You're up 4-3 in the 8th, with bases loaded and 1 out.  Even tired, your closer is your best option, but he's had elbow troubles in the past.  You've got money on tonight's game.  What do you do?
In both situations, the manager in question would be making decisions not only based on what's best for the team and what will help the team win as many games as possible, but also, what will help win the game that has money on it.

Maybe nothing bad ever turns out to happen in these situations on a small enough sample size.  But let's say you're managing a team that's a division favorite and your closer develops tendonitis from throwing in too many games in a row.  Or let's say your superstar, out of weariness, gets into a slump where he bats 50 points below his career average and stops hitting home runs, or worse, develops some sort of "overuse" injury, like plantar fasciitis (sp?).

Just because Pete Rose claims he never bet against his team doesn't mean his bets didn't hurt both the integrity of the game, but also his players.

by mtalken on Jan 21, 2008 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

the Rose case
you make a solid argument as to why Pete Rose should never be allowed to "manage" again (not that that is a realistic possibility anyway)...
but to be excluded from the HOF?
or not be allowed to work for a team in some other capacity?
or for the Reds or any other team to get special permission to allow him into the park?

ridiculous.

by the Tewk on Jan 21, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

More
I have heard these same arguments many times before and most of them are valid. (Except the one that says he is betting on his team to lose every time he doesn't bet on them to win. You are then implying that he is making decisions to deliberately lose those games.)

The rest of your argument holds some validity in that he may employ personnel in such a way as to try harder to win the games that he bet on.

However, if that is the case, then you can make those arguments against LaRussa every day game, since he plays the "B" team in those games to give his better players the days off. How many times do you see the day before an off day with no Edmonds, Rolen, Molina...etc?

Did Rose hurt the game with his behavior? Abso-freakin-lutely, and he is being punished and should be. However, the point of my original post was that PED's also harm the integrity of the game and by possibly more than Rose and definitely more than Shoeless Joe Jackson. Tell me if the Giants would have still made the playoffs without a heavily juice Barry Bonds. Or if the Astros would have with someone else taking all of Clemens' starts. Or the late 80's A's without Canseco and who knows how many more. The whole game's climate would have been different. David Segui probably kept some deserving minor leaguer from getting a shot at MLB and the same can be said for dozens of juicers. Jim Rice may never make the Hall of Fame because his numbers don't stack up with the likes of Rafael Palmeiro.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jan 21, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

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