Rick Ankiel and HGH

I was just posting this too

I am concerned and I hope that like the Wade Wilson story there is some sort of a good or plausible explanation.

by OCCardsFan on Sep 7, 2007 1:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This just sucks if its true. And what I hate more than anything is the intense scrutiny baseball receives while the freakish sizes of athletes in other sports (I'm looking at you, NFL) is largely ignored or celebrated.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Sep 7, 2007 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here is the link...

Again this is the NY Daily News, as seen on Baseball Tonight.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/09/06/2007-09-06_rick_ankiel_received_12month_supply _of_h.html

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Sep 7, 2007 1:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed..

I hope there is an explanation but if the truth is what they say, it really doesn't bother me that much either. I mean he was obtaining it befor it was a banned substance and then when MLB put the ax on it, apparently so did he. Not really much that the MLB could do. It dampens the story yes but i just hope he continues to produce. What sucks the most is now for the next few days we have to deal with hearing about it constantly by the media. Either way I support ya Rick.

Go Cards

2/3rd's of the earth is covered by water, the other third is coverd by Jim Edmonds

by cardsphan04 on Sep 7, 2007 1:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I guess

everyone was watching Baseball tonight eh?

"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson

by birds 4 life on Sep 7, 2007 1:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't care

Even if we take the story at face value, he stopped before MLB banned HGH.

Compared to all the other crap the team has dealt with this year, this story is almost laughable.

by bailorg on Sep 7, 2007 1:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think this is laughable

It IS a big deal. The truth needs to be heard, and if Ankiel has a reason for this I am glad to hear it and eager to accept it. If he did do this...then it is a big deal, and this could largely be a reason why he was able to bounce back. Again, pure and total speculation that I would love to retract tomorrow.

I guess let's wait and see. This does bother me, though.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Sep 7, 2007 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he used when it was legal, there is no issue

by bailorg on Sep 7, 2007 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he used it without a medical reason

then it is illegal, regardless of MLB restrictions

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Sep 7, 2007 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually possession with a prescription is legal

"Mark Schutta, a University of Pennsylvania endocrinologist, told us that under Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) regulations, HGH, unlike some anabolic steroids, is not a controlled substance."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/03/08/raids/1.html

From what I can tell only possession without a prescription or possession with intent to distribute is a crime under federal law.

by bailorg on Sep 7, 2007 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

What's the point of the story? What did it accomplish?

by trogdor on Sep 7, 2007 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The point is

That one of our players has been linked to using HGH, a currently illegal substance. As per the story, their are very few reasons why a young man like Rick would need such things. Again, it is not a non-story.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Sep 7, 2007 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is not a 200-point

front-page tab headline story, either. Come off it.

by baw on Sep 7, 2007 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

time for ESPN to make a fool out of itself

Barring evidence of actual wrong-doing this is the last I'll be saying/thinking about this.

by DanUpBaby on Sep 7, 2007 1:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Just as it is

foolish to simply believe this story completely, it is also foolish to simply dismiss it offhand.

And as for you post...I am not sure that HGH is the response to rehabbing a knee. I am not sure that is a valid use of the drug. Again, no sarcasm here, I am not a doctor, and I could be wrong.

I have never heard of it for one thing...do athletes simply take HGH to recover from injuries? I didn't think they did, but I could be wrong. I thought this drug was for people who have shortages of this hormone in there body, a condition which would be rare for a man Ankiel's age. Enlightenment on this topic would be greatly appreciated.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Sep 7, 2007 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is going to seriously impact

Roy's shot at the Hall of Fame.

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 7, 2007 1:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i cannot

for the life of me understand why this is a big deal... if in 3 years they ban alcohol in the us, does that make all of us consumers bad people? i know its a little different but my point is ankiel did nothing wrong

by bigmcq16 on Sep 7, 2007 1:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

there's a lot of reasons why

it's a big deal. with all the problems the Cards have had this year with alcohol&drugs it's another black eye on the Cardinals. Tony's DUI, Hancock's death, Speezer's now in rehab, and now Rick being linked to HGH all make the Cards look bad.

now the feel good story of the year is linked to HGH. espn and every other reporter in the country are now going to report Rick is a cheater, and every thing he's doing is just has bad as what bonds is doing. and of course every one will believe them and the fact that it probably wasnt illegal or against the ruls of baseball means nothing to them. they will now paint Rick as a cheater, and the rest of the world will follow along with their thinking and the feel good story of the year is now going to be lumped in with the rest of the real cheaters.

from here on out, according to espn Rick's guilty. even if he isnt.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 7, 2007 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

true

but this story will only go as far as stupid people allow it... unfortunately there are a lot of stupid gullible people out there...

by bigmcq16 on Sep 7, 2007 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

true

but this story will only go as far as stupid people allow it... unfortunately there are a lot of stupid gullible people out there...

by bigmcq16 on Sep 7, 2007 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

of course its

a big deal. just because the shipments to ank stopped when hgh was banned doesnt mean that he stopped doing hgh. as you may or may not know, there is not test for hgh so slick rick might still be taking that stuff and he is simply getting it from a different company/dealer.

2007 season: dedicated to Josh Hancock, RIP.

by cards4life on Sep 7, 2007 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well if u think that

then you could speculate that every player in mlb is taking it but getting it from somewhere else

by bigmcq16 on Sep 7, 2007 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The timing of this

"story" breaking is pretty fishy to me.

To me it seems like some of the "East Coast media" is trying to put a wrench in the Cardinals playoff chances.

Maybe it's just me but I think they are thinking...
We can't have the Cardinals come and crash the post season again so lets dig something up on their new hero.

No it's not good news, but I really question the timing of this.

by KYCards on Sep 7, 2007 1:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah

i thought that too.

by Pujols on Sep 7, 2007 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I seriously doubt

the NY Daily News looked at the NL Central standings and decided to break this story based on the Cardinals chances to make the postseason.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Sep 7, 2007 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't be so sure

it seems real fishy that this broke the same day Rick has a big game and the Cards are only 1 game out.

I remember last October when even Mike Shannon said the last thing the East Coast Media wants is the Cardinals in the World Series. He went off on a pretty big rant about it, and there was alot of truth to what he said.

by KYCards on Sep 7, 2007 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe they didn't

study the NL Central standings, but they sure as hell wouldn't be writing this if Rick were slugging .375 with 2 HR. Did you look at the NYDN's front sports page? Do you really think this is not being overblown, cardzfan?

by baw on Sep 7, 2007 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In case you didn't see the page

by baw on Sep 7, 2007 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Integrity

How trustworthy a source is the NYDN? I don't mean that as a rhetorical question, I'm actually curious. Aren't there some NYC publications that are known fabricators and embellishers? How credible is the source, I guess, is what I'm asking.

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 7, 2007 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

as a publication

in general, i can't answer your question, but i can personally vouch for the reporters on this particular story. they have been at the forefront of the baseball/steriods story since prior to the release of canseco's book.

in this case, the daily news is highly credible. not to suggest that the wwl is terribly credible, but every report on any steroid issue in the last several years that has appeared on espn as "reported" has come from the nydn.

by sdesserman on Sep 7, 2007 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Still pissed

Don't stop. Believin'.

by liam on Sep 7, 2007 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm guessing...

..the writer was a Mets fan, still bitter about last year.

"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson

by birds 4 life on Sep 7, 2007 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well,

anytime a newspaper promotes itself in a story or in the freaking deck under a headline, I really question its motives. When I read "News learns comeback kid Ankiel received HGH shipments" on the front page and "...the Daily News has learned" at the end of the lead, I realize this whole thing is less about telling a useful story and more about selling papers.

by baw on Sep 7, 2007 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This was meant

as a reply to Mr Redbird's post. Sorry!

by baw on Sep 7, 2007 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i see a lawsuit in the near future for the NYDN

that reaks of slander and defamation of character.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 7, 2007 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well, not if it's true.

as lboros stated in his main page post, there's a hell of a lot of detail in that story, and it would be absolutely moronic to do that if they're not sure of their facts.

as for the timing/motivation, not saying it's not connected; but if it is, that motivation probably isn't coming from the daily news, it's coming from the source that tipped them to the story. the news doesn't care about the playoff race, they care about selling papers.

The Cardinals are coming, tra la, tra la

by nycbirdo on Sep 7, 2007 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

because

they're reporting facts?

by sdesserman on Sep 7, 2007 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's a known fact espn hates the Cardinals

of course its fishy. the WWL will do anything to make the Cards look bad. they are the flubs biggest fans. it makes me sick.

also, a new york paper broke this story. um who ass did we kick last October? the mets. where do they play? new york. coincidence? i think not.

OK, i really need to take off my tin foil hat.

but in all seriousness, sometimes i can't help but feel the national media is out to get the Cardinals.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 7, 2007 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

espn and its "credibility"

did u notice that most of the comments in the article on espn were just copied and pasted from the NYDN article? i guess they'll just throw anything up there

by bigmcq16 on Sep 7, 2007 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

People, please leave the paranoia

aside! East Coast people and their media are not hostile to STL, the Cardinals, or people in the Midwest. The truth is that THEY DO NOT CARE. They are indifferent to what happens in the middle of the country; it might as well be Mars. In this case they are chasing a story, and if Ank played for Colorado or Seattle they'd be chasing it there too.

Until you live on the East or West coasts, you really cannot fathom just how little people know or care about "flyover country."

"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 7, 2007 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's true

they honestly don't give a shit. people here take PRIDE in knowing absolutely nothing about the midwest, and not caring at all about anything that happens there, which they assume mostly involves farming, reading the bible, and watching fox news. (not a political statement - just explaining the situation).

if anything, the nyc attitude towards the midwest cuts the OTHER way - for anyone to care about this up here, it'd have to be a much, much bigger deal than if it happened to, say, an ny team or the sox.

The Cardinals are coming, tra la, tra la

by nycbirdo on Sep 7, 2007 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

I grew up in the midwest but my dad lives in DC and when visiting there their local news is full of national headlines. For the east coast media to care it has to be big nationally or a big local story otherwise it isn't worth their time. Thus to claim east coast bias on this story is actually backwards, if they didn't report it then that would be the bias.

by StLHugo on Sep 7, 2007 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Was it a big deal when Bonds did it?

If you are a Cards fan and booed Bonds for taking HGH back when he was a monster then you cannot in good faith think this is not a big deal.

As per "Game of Shadows," HGH was one of Bonds' preferred substances. Again, that is why its a big deal, regardless of when it was taken. Also, it is illegal to take it without a medical reason for having it. Hopefully Ankiel can provide that reason.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Sep 7, 2007 1:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

re: the drug's illegality

marijuana is also illegal. Good luck with that MLB witch-hunt.

by DanUpBaby on Sep 7, 2007 1:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Marijuana

= not relevant to this discussion at all.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Sep 7, 2007 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's extremely relevant

this discussion is about an article in which ankiel took a substance which, like marijuana, is illegal for general use but legal in certain narrow circumstances, about which major league baseball had no guidelines.

by DanUpBaby on Sep 7, 2007 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

HGH=Performance Enhancing Drug

Marijuana is different. Not to go all crazy, but it is a purely recreational drug with little medical benefit.

HGH is something that can be used by ballplayers illicitly to improve their performance. Therefore it is different.

I mean, its not like you would be taking HGH at 2 in the morning after watching a Cardinals game, furiously typing on a team blog.

Wait...

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Sep 7, 2007 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

illicit?

if this report were of him using HGH now, that would be true, but MLB had no problem with it at the time. It was as illicit as weight training.

Therefore the only problem is the drug's legality.

by DanUpBaby on Sep 7, 2007 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bingo!

DanUp is right. It wasn't a problem then, and that was 3 years ago. Does what he did 3 years ago account for how he plays now? I don't think so. If he failed a drug test today, I'd say 'throw him under the bus', but to hold him account for something then is like busting someone in 1920 for the booze they made in 1919 (when it was still legal). As DanUp says--and is correct--, "(at the time) it was as illicit as weight training." Keep that in mind.

by rockin redbird on Sep 7, 2007 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, not buying this

DanUp and RR: As someone who despises Bonds for his steroid and probably HGH use, this is different.

There are a couple things we should all acknowledge here:

That without a valid prescription, HGH is illegal. So unless it was for a medical reason, either Rick or the doctor broke federal law, despite what MLB says about it.
There has to be some sense of right and wrong that kicks in when someone is doing something like this.
There also has to be some sense of desperation involved for a guy like Ankiel that is fighting for a roster spot and is not far from hitting 30, when his chances will be all but up.

If this is true, it will seriously damper my opinion of Rick Ankiel. Saying it wasn't banned by MLB is justifying something that is wrong. And if you've ever posted anything about Bonds being a cheating jerk, then it's also hypocritical.

The questions such as "Is the NYDN reputable?" are valid, although I can't imagine they're running this wildly with something which they don't have solid sources on.

This is pretty much the same thing though as saying (assuming Mac, Sosa and Bonds took steroids) that because steroids weren't banned, it was ok for McGwire, Sosa and Bonds to be juicing in the 90's because MLB didn't ban it.

It doesn't really hold a lot of weight when the United States government HAS banned it for such uses.

Of course, my last point is concerning #3. I think, while I acknowledge that if he used it, he was clearly in the wrong, that I can fully understand why he would do such a thing. If put in a situation where I knew I'd be considered a failure if I didn't make the big leagues and my potential earnings went from "well, better get myself ready to go to college as a 30-year-old freshman" or having millions of dollars in the bank that would give me some type of security, then I think I would at least be tempted.

It's still morally and legally wrong though.

by mtalken on Sep 7, 2007 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Let's acknowledge some things here:

1)As far as what the evidence shows, he DID have a valid prescription. Thus, his use was LEGAL.

2)This "sense of right and wrong" you bring up is subjective, not an absolute. You are an injured athlete and a doctor says, "Hey, I've got just the thing to help you," and then writes a prescription for a LEGAL substance (at the time). You take said substance till you learn it is going to be banned. You then stop taking said substance. Where is the "clearly in the wrong" in that scenario? Saying it wasn't banned at the time he took it is NOT a justification--it is a fact. However, saying it is morally wrong is a subjective value judgement on your part. Many people believe drinking alcohol, dancing, and gambling are morally wrong. I do not. Who's right? Both and neither. Morals are whatever somebody says they are. Let's keep this discussion in the realm of fact and legalities.

3)I wouldn't know. And unless you are a professional athlete, neither do you.

And as far as Bonds goes, I say the same applies to him, McGwire, Sosa, whomever. I can't stand Bond because he is an asshole of a man. If they can prove he did something illegal, bust him. Bust him hard. Ankiel too. Otherwise, all this outrage is little but moral posturing.

by rockin redbird on Sep 7, 2007 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re:

This makes things somewhat better. If there was a valid medical usage other than wanting to be a better baseball player, then I'm fully satisfied and very happy to hear it. (I'm loving the Rick Ankiel story as much as the rest of you)
Ask little leaguers, ask professional athletes, ask high school athletes: "If there were a drug out there that would make you better at sports, but could have pretty awful health benefits, is this something that athletes should do?" I would be willing to bet most of those people would say no. It is clearly in the wrong, because it unbalances the playing field, and for other players to balance it back, they have to endanger their own health.
I was saying this point to humanize him. I hope he didn't do this, or if he did that there was a valid(and by valid I mean not only a legal prescription but that the doctor had valid reasons for GIVING the prescription) reason for giving this stuff out.

And as far as not knowing, I don't know about you, but I have a good enough imagination that I have at least an inkling of what I would do. I don't know if I would take HGH or steroids, but if I were in Rick Ankiel's shoes, getting somewhat close to 30 and realizing that my shot was now or never, I wouldn't be immune to at least consideration of something like that.

I say that not because I think Ankiel's a bad person or I'm a bad person. I say that in defense of him. So RR, if you think I'm "outraged" then you misread the way I was intending my comments. I merely don't think it's authentic that many people on here are willing to rip Bonds(as I am) for his steroid usage, when steroids were not illegal by MLB standards, and then give Ankiel a pass for precisely the same reasons.

Oh yeah, your point in #2, I understand that too, which is what I'm getting at. There's still potentially a moral wrong there, even if it's the doctor's moral wrong(if the drug wasn't necessary)

by mtalken on Sep 7, 2007 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

pretty sure that HGH

has been shown to have little to no performance enhancing effects for baseball players. There was a huge discussion about this just a month or two ago. Now he may have taken it hoping to get some, and if so then that'll act in some way as a killjoy, but he's not slugging .700 because he used HGH.

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 7, 2007 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The response

to this is just fascinating to watch.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Sep 7, 2007 1:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

$.02

It is sad timing for sure. Even if he was taking it legally at the time, and he hasn't taken it since they banned it in 2005, it will hurt his reputation and put a stain on this feel-good story. I hope his hot play lately doesn't come to a halt because of this.

Also, I hate the ESPN.com headline:
Report: Ankiel got HGH from a Florida pharmacy

People who just skim over that headline will assume that he did it illegally, while all signs (currently) point to it being legal.

And even if his name is completely cleared, his rep will still be stained. Don't think so? Ask the Duke lacrosse boys.

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 7, 2007 2:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

exactly

I don't care that he did this--heck, I wouldn't care if the entire team was taking horse steroids on the charter flight an hour ago--but I do care that the sensationalist j-school washouts at ESPN are going to act as though this is some Great and Terrible Thing.

by DanUpBaby on Sep 7, 2007 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Which is more important to include in that headline: the fact that the HGH came from a Florida pharmacy, or the fact that it happened back in 2004? That's an intentional omission clearly designed to throw fuel on the fire.

by baw on Sep 7, 2007 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

completely agree

that is just bad journalism right there.

by PolancoMcEwing on Sep 7, 2007 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Medically?

If he took HGH two years ago, would he still have the muscle mass today?
I know that for steroids, once you go off them, most "un-natural" muscle will atrophy relatively rapidly.
Is there any chance that this is really just a moot point?

by duncansarmy on Sep 7, 2007 2:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

more proof the WWL has no journalistic integrity

just watch the next sportcenter. all through the highlight of todays game they showed Rick & the Cards doing their thing, then sprinkled in bits & pieces of the HGH story. as if HGH is the reason Rick went 3-4 with a double 2 home runs and 7 RBI's today.

classy guys. real classy.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Sep 7, 2007 2:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I guess I missed...

the day that the New York Daily News became a reputable news source.

by mynameistyler on Sep 7, 2007 2:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

ESPN

Think the folks at ESPN isn't loving this "story".

On baseball tonight the two EAst Coast ESPN guys were almost giddy breaking this news and bringing up Tony's DUI and all the Cardinals troubles.

But when they asked Vina about it, Vina was basically treating it like it was a non-issue and that the Cards are going to win the Central anyways. I could tell that the other 2 ESPN clowns didn't like his responce.
That told me alot on why this "story" is breaking now.

by KYCards on Sep 7, 2007 2:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That was

great, wasn't it? I haven't thought much about Vina since he became a regular, but he handled that issue better than all the other "journalists". It's reallly a non-story--the evidence states he quit ordering the drug when MLB banned it. So what exactly did he do wrong?

by rockin redbird on Sep 7, 2007 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's let this play out

No need to overreact to this story, either condemning it, or condemning Rick, or blasting ESPN for the timing. This is how the news cycle works now. Player 'A' becomes positive, feel-good story, Journalists 'B' through 'XXJ' look for every positive angle to feel-good story. When all those have been used, Journalists look for a possible skeleton in the closet, to dismantle feel-good story and introduce doubt. We the readers must always remember, we are not supposed to feel good or feel bad, we are supposed to continually tune in to learn how we are supposed to feel.

MLB's hands are tied. According to the circumstances, unless they find proof of more recent use, they can't suspend him. This also, unfortunately, robs us of any possible closure.

The only thing I'm interested in is to see how Rick weathers the latest media barrage of barbed questions. The onslaught is coming back for him.

by taiko on Sep 7, 2007 2:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Amen

Here's to Rick! May he weather this bullshit as well as he's weathered "Big Show" pitching.

by rockin redbird on Sep 7, 2007 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Good" Morning...

In the article on mlb.com, there's this:

"Walt Jocketty, the Cardinals general manager, told the newspaper: 'This is the first I've heard of this. If it's true, obviously it would be very tragic, along with everything else we've had happen to us this year.'"

Was this just Walt being taken by surprise? Because I think a much, much better, much more equivocal answer could've been given. I'm not even sure what he could've said, but...there's something about his answer that troubles me. I would rather he said that he was waiting until he had the chance to speak with "his people," or Rick, or...

My alarm clock goes on with 1010 WINS here in NY; this story was the first thing I heard this morning. Yuck.

by glennrwordman on Sep 7, 2007 7:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I was going to respond but...

Bernie did a much better job of saying just what I was thinking this morning:

http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/sports-bernies-extra-points/2007/09/rick-ankiel-still-the-natural/

by StLHugo on Sep 7, 2007 7:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Why are people falling all over themselves to

defend Rick? It was a great story about a guy who picked himself up off the deck and made something of his shattered life.

Well, now it's not so 'nice' a story.

It just goes to show you, there are no more 'heroes' in sports.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 7, 2007 8:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not really defending him

I am not really defending him, I just don't think he actually did anything wrong in the first place, from reading what Bernie wrote I agree with pretty much everything he said. The kid took the stuff while recovering from surgery as a pitcher (that is if he took it to begin with) and it seems he had a prescription and it was before it was banned. To me it doesn't detract from his success at all and I don't see anything that really needs defending it is just a shame that this will get so much attention.

by StLHugo on Sep 7, 2007 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You say that without any first hand knowledge

or even second hand. Neither does Bernie. He's just making up excuses.

It's plausible that Rick used it for recovery reasons as prescribed by a doctor. But no one knows if that is why he used it. No one knows if he is still using it.

People blame the 'East Cost' media and whatever, they didn't make the story up. If Rick hadn't been involved in the situation then there would have been no story.

Bottom line: The Feel Good story is over. This will be the #1 story on every sports broadcast for atleast the next 4 days. Any time Rick does something positive, this will be brought up. The fans and broadcasters of every team we play from here on out will make sure to mention it as much as possible.

Rick and the Cardinals won't come out ahead of the story just like they really didn't try to when Pujols was accused of HGH. What happened to Pujols after that? His HR binge went away. You think Rick, who has a history of cracking under pressure is going to be able to keep it together with all of thise going on?

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 7, 2007 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he is still taking it

then that is a different issue entirely.

From the main article:
"Ankiel's prescriptions were signed by Florida physician William Gogan, who provided them through a Palm Beach Gardens clinic called "The Health and Rejuvenation Center," or "THARC." The drugs were shipped to Ankiel at the clinic's address.

THARC also provided a shipment of steroids and growth hormone to former major league pitcher Steve Woodard, who pitched for Milwaukee, Cleveland, Texas and Boston during a seven-year career that ended in 2003, according to records. Woodard and Ankiel were teammates with the Triple-A Memphis Redbirds in 2004.

Ankiel lives in nearby Jupiter, Fla."

He had a prescription period. Until it comes out that it was a fake prescription then I don't see anything wrong with it. Regardless HGH to me isn't the same as steroids it affects the body much differently. This isn't East Coast bias anyway as people are claiming, this is a sports figure who got caught up in shit, happens to every single type of figure regardless of where they are from.

by StLHugo on Sep 7, 2007 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What odd remarks

It seems strange to criticize Miklasz, when the upshot of his post seems pretty much equivalent to the upshot of yours: no one really knows anything.

As for the Feel Good Story being "over," I'm not sure what that even means. If it just means that the media stop treating Ankiel like a Feel Good Story, then who cares? Their positive coverage of Ankiel isn't what makes his story compelling; and that coverage's absence won't make it any less so. But does it mean that we Cardinals fans, or baseball fans, without more damning information, have to stop Feeling Good about Ankiel? I don't see why.

And as for Rick's history of cracking under pressure... you seem awfully sure that he'll come apart. It's possible, but it seems just as plausible to say that he has a recent history of performing well under pressure. His story has been getting consistent national coverage since he came up (before that, even), and he hasn't stopped hitting. We're both just speculating here, but I don't see any reason to jump to a cynical position prematurely.

by Hummingbird on Sep 7, 2007 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong.

The Feel Good Story continues. You had no proof of what Ankiel's prescription situation was before you posted your reply. I would suggest that you take this lesson to heart moving forward.

by champion on Sep 7, 2007 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Harcore ?

Why do you bother watching the Cards?

Really?

You seem to think that the Cards best players Pujols and Ankiel are "cheating" (what ever that means) So why watch?

Ankiel was injured. Had a prescription to a drug that is used when people are injured. He stop the shipments when MLB banned it. Other than that it's jsut making things up.

Just because I took Vioxx when it was legal to do so doesn't mean I am still taking it now, and breaking the law. (keep in mind HGH is legal) Should I assume that you are still taking every medication that you have ever had a prescription for? No!

Rick has given us any reason to believe he would break a rule.

...and I wont even get into the studies that say HGH doesn't build usable muscle but only heals damage (if that.) If you can point me to a study that says otherwise please do so.

by Harknights on Sep 7, 2007 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think HL

was accusing Pujols of using there. Just that the mere accusation was enough of a distraction to get him off track. Ankiel's psyche is thought to be much more fragile and so the distraction will be even worse on him.

I think that's what he was arguing... Sure he'll be around to clarify it for himself.

by liam on Sep 7, 2007 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My greatest fear is that Ankiel

and the Cardinals will take the usual boneheaded approach of stonewalling and hoping this goes away. I hope they have the wit to get out in front of this story, TODAY. If you don't fight back, and hard, you lose the media battle, probably permanently.

"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 7, 2007 8:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A couple things...

as others said. HGH was NOT illegal when he was using it. You also do not know why he was using it, the kid has had a myriad of injuries, and HGH is used by doctors to help the body heal.

Also, I heard Roy Hobbs used a bat made from a tree that was struck by lightning, I bet MLB has policies against that.

- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 7, 2007 8:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Correction

HGH was NOT against MLB rules.
HGH was and is NOT illegal for use.
HGH is and was illegal for off label distribution.

Just figured I would add a few more hard found facts about this junk that it took me a couple hours to find digging around google this morning. It seems no one knows the true regulations about it since HGH took Steroids place in a law when steroids were made illegal for use in the 90s.

by StLHugo on Sep 7, 2007 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm going to go ahead and say

that while I think this is serious and the Cardinals need to handle this situation well; if Rob Neyer isn't concerned, then I will also choose to not be concerned.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Sep 7, 2007 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Peter Gammons...

also gave Ankiel the benefit of the doubt, and he's been following Ankiel for years. I respect Gammons opinion over anyone else's in baseball.

- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 7, 2007 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

The Cardinals are coming, tra la, tra la

by nycbirdo on Sep 7, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He also made a pretty strong statement

I'm far less concerned if two of ESPN's most reputable guys in Neyer and Gammons are not concerned and Ankiel is willing to make such a strong statement. (That's exactly what disheartened me with McGwire. I never believed he would use until his Capitol Hill performance.)

by mtalken on Sep 8, 2007 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The first post on "Fire Joe Morgan"

pretty much sums up how I feel.

www.firejoemorgan.com

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Sep 7, 2007 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

From a doc

on a board I frequent:

"this just cracks me up. let me try to contribute something useful.

in 2004, there were doctors all over whom prescribed hgh for a variety of reasons. in 2007, there are many, many more. most often as an 'anti-aging' treatment. for elderly, otherwise healthy people, as well as middle-aged 'patients'. this is considered shady by many (including me), but perfectly legal and more or less 'acceptable' by the medical profession (no one is getting kicked out of the ama or having their license revoked simply for prescribing hgh, as long as they actually perform the other normal aspects of patient care, like examination, follow up, proper documentation).

but i find it shady because it more closely resembles the episode of entourage where johnny is visiting the doctor to get a prescription for medical marijuana. the doc wants to make a buck; the patient wants to feel better than 'normal'. small lies are told/accepted. the legality/ethics are painted in shades of gray.

prescribing hgh to help someone recover from an injury i personally feel is bogus, in the context of pro sports being nominally opposed to performance enhancing drugs. aside from that context, hell yes it helps. the major component of recovering from injury is preventing muscle atrophy/restoring muscle strength after atrophy has set it. steroids help too. probably at very low risk (but those risks are largely unknown).

as far as 'his doctor' and doctor shopping? i don't know what 'his doctor' means; everyone is entitled to a second opinion.

as far as evidence of a guilty mind? see above context."

Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 8, 2007 1:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs