Game 157 Open Thread: September 25, 2007

	qual st	whip	wpa	avg	obp	slg
looper	18/29	1.308	+0.46	.265	.317	.421
suppan	14/32	1.495	-0.95	.298	.355	.441

I would hope in 2010

we could pay $12 M to a pitcher who is a lot better than Jeff Suppan.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 25, 2007 6:13 PM EDT reply actions

agreed

That would not be a good contract for us to have. We already have old guys who appear to be in decline. Yes they can still do stuff but they are way overpaid for what you get.

Do you think that PJ Walters kid has a shot? Does he have the stuff to get MLB hitters out? Maddux does it with 88 MPH heat but PJ sure as heck is no Madd Dog.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 25, 2007 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Maddux doesn't throw a screwball

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 25, 2007 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions

True

He also happens to have the best command during the era and by many accounts in history.

Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Sep 25, 2007 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Screwball

Maddux does throw a type of screwball.

He pronates both his fastball and change-up, which is why they both dive down and in on righties. That's also why his elbow has held up as well as it has.

by thepainguy on Sep 26, 2007 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions

If salaries keep going up

$12M may only get you a mediocre pitcher at best

by Handsome B Wonderful on Sep 25, 2007 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Jeff Suppan will be 35 years old

in 2010. I still would hope that $12 M in 2010 would get us more value than that. Even if it is the scaled down 1st year pay of a 5 year contract, I think it should bring us more value than a 35 year old Jeff Suppan.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 25, 2007 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions

have we made fun of...

Looper yet for having such a dopey looking picture?

we kid because we care.

by Irishman on Sep 25, 2007 6:27 PM EDT reply actions

Agreed on Supp

He's gonna earn a helluva lot of money in a couple of years to be Braden Looper or worse.

by chuckb on Sep 25, 2007 6:28 PM EDT reply actions

Buehrle and Thome?

I read the article LB linked to about Buehrle killing a bear. Reading these passages (about him and Jim Thome hunting together), do you think Mark's wife needs to worry?

"[It was] just a once-in-a-lifetime experience, especially going with Jimmy," Buehrle said. "When we got out there, the guy said we could hunt [separately]. But my main thing [was], I wanted to be in the stand with Jim Thome. I turned down hunting by myself to be with him.

"We weren't together together, but we were close enough [that] he got me on video. First, getting to bear hunt and then getting to hunt with him was more special."
. . .
"When [Thome] first signed and got traded over, he actually called up and left me a message saying, 'I'm happy to be your teammate, and I hope we can get together and hang out,'" said Buehrle of Thome. "I saved it forever.
. . .
"I was so excited Jim Thome called me. I was showing my buddies, and [my wife] Jamie still laughs at me to this day how excited I was. Just him being a hunter, and he's a great guy. He hit 500 home runs and is a future Hall of Famer, hopefully. Just everything, it kind of adds up. Just to be out in the woods with him was awesome."

by Secret Weapon on Sep 25, 2007 6:43 PM EDT reply actions

Bearback Mountain

hhheeeeyyyyy!

It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 25, 2007 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Lineup

Eckstein SS
Schumaker LF
Pujols 1B
Edmonds CF
Ludwick RF
Spiezio 3B
Stinnett C
Looper P
Barden 2B

by StLHugo on Sep 25, 2007 7:24 PM EDT reply actions

that cannot be right

Barden starting?

"Show me a guy who takes his time on the mound and I'll show you a damned loser." - Leo Durocher

by mattyfrommo on Sep 25, 2007 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Miles probably got that stomach bug

that's going around or something.........or it's a typo..Glad to get to see Barden, however.

by jillsinmo on Sep 25, 2007 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions

the only thing I don't like about that

is no Ank, just when he is heating up again. 2 things, but I just knew Ryan wouldn't be in the starting lineup after he tried to kill APu last night.

"Show me a guy who takes his time on the mound and I'll show you a damned loser." - Leo Durocher

by mattyfrommo on Sep 25, 2007 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Ankiel has a swollen ankle

from a ball that fouled off his foot last night. Just heard that from TLR.

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Love the bottom of the lineup

Stinnett .188
Looper .196
Barden .172

Look at it this way: If you add their averages up, the three of them are hitting .556!

What do you mean it doesn't work that way?

So what do I call it? An offseason beard?

by effin fisk on Sep 25, 2007 7:50 PM EDT reply actions

Brendan Ryan actually said to Shannon

that one of the things he's learned this year is that he has been smiling too much on the field. I guess that message was delivered.

If it's disrupting his concentration, that's one thing. But if he's enjoying playing, what the hell is wrong with smiling? I haven't seen him snickering out there or anything.

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 7:56 PM EDT reply actions

One of the things that makes me mad

about this is that it raises again TLR's double standards. Lots of our players smile while on the field. Heck, Pujols smiles almost every time an opponent gets on base because it gives him someone to joke around with.

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Perhaps

"smiling too much" is a euphemism for immaturity or a lack of professionalism, or seriousness.

As far as Albert smiling, Albert Pujols can do whatever he wants. He's Albert Pujols.

Spantalones

by spants on Sep 25, 2007 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions

please

I respect your opinion, sort of. Smiling is just smiling.

"Show me a guy who takes his time on the mound and I'll show you a damned loser." - Leo Durocher

by mattyfrommo on Sep 25, 2007 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions

I wasn't

claiming it as an opinion. I was offering a different angle.

I don't appreciate your tone as I've said nothing to warrant it.

Spantalones

by spants on Sep 25, 2007 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions

you could very well be right

but perhaps more direct communication would get the point across better. Ryan sounded like he was taking it to mean smiling. TLR's double standards and poor communication are just pet peeves for me.

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions

mine too

I see the point. I don't like raggin on Tony all the damn time. I just can't help myself when it comes to Brendan.

"Show me a guy who takes his time on the mound and I'll show you a damned loser." - Leo Durocher

by mattyfrommo on Sep 25, 2007 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions

If, like Mark Grace said, he's a bit

dingy, maybe getting him a bit more serious on the field will help him.

by sdrone on Sep 25, 2007 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions

maybe TLR isn't used to so much energy

it must be shocking to have someone who steals base at will.

I think Ryan's energy needs to be focused, but at least he has zip. I just don't want them to kill what makes him so fun to watch.

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions

agree

it was awesome when he first came up; taking the extra base, stealing bases (!), but it seems like a lot of the spirit has gone out of him lately. That's a very sad thing. Of course he's also hitting for a .590 OPS over the last month; that might have something to do with it (or that might have something to do with his new attitude). It's impossible to tell.

Still, I wonder if TLR could deal with having a Jose Reyes or Jimmy Rollins in his dugout? I've never seen a team so even-keeled over the course of a season; you'd think they'd perform better if they had a little energy.

"but the rain is so real, lord; and the rainbows pretend..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 26, 2007 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions

smiling

my basketball coach would always get mad at me for smiling, taking it as "ur not trying/focusing hard enough" even though i would just play better when i was looser. he too was kind of ignorant to stuff like this

by bigmcq16 on Sep 25, 2007 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Smiling too much...

Dumbest thing I've ever heard and just another reason not to like LaRussa.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Sep 25, 2007 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions

I think I respect Albert

as much right now as I have in his time w/ the Cards. He didn't play for several days -- got a ph appearance a couple of times and was absolutely dialed in the moment he picked up the bat.

He could've hung it up this season a couple of weeks ago but had enough pride in himself to fight through it and finish the year.

by chuckb on Sep 25, 2007 8:19 PM EDT reply actions

think the brewers would trade us Hardy?

they might as well get a jump on getting rid of one of those youngsters. I see them trying to keep Fielder , Braun, and Weeks longterm. This would just save them a little pain of losing Hardy when he gets REALLY, REALLY good.

"Show me a guy who takes his time on the mound and I'll show you a damned loser." - Leo Durocher

by mattyfrommo on Sep 25, 2007 8:21 PM EDT reply actions

I hate that guy

"Show me a guy who takes his time on the mound and I'll show you a damned loser." - Leo Durocher

by mattyfrommo on Sep 25, 2007 8:23 PM EDT reply actions

uh

was that curtain call needed?

by Pujols on Sep 25, 2007 8:25 PM EDT reply actions

I don't think we have the right

to ask that question. We do have the tendency to be a bit too liberal with the curtain calls.

"Show me a guy who takes his time on the mound and I'll show you a damned loser." - Leo Durocher

by mattyfrommo on Sep 25, 2007 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions

hah

yeah i guess your right

by Pujols on Sep 25, 2007 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Can't we just forfeit these games

and slow the Cubs down. That would be fun and we wouldn't have to watch our players be slowly tortured (not to mention us).

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 8:31 PM EDT reply actions

WOW

can I sit in the seat next to THAT Cards fan?

"Show me a guy who takes his time on the mound and I'll show you a damned loser." - Leo Durocher

by mattyfrommo on Sep 25, 2007 8:34 PM EDT reply actions

Our top two pitchers having great game

PAUSE, NOT!

So what do I call it? An offseason beard?

by effin fisk on Sep 25, 2007 8:37 PM EDT reply actions

At least I don't feel bad about it this week

It means not helping the cubs.

by DriverZn on Sep 25, 2007 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions

b*s**

forget "not helping the cubs". Our time to do that was last week.

Our job is to go out on the field and put a hurtin' on the brewers and we have utterly and completely failed to do that. I'm embarrassed to be rooting for this team right now.

"but the rain is so real, lord; and the rainbows pretend..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 26, 2007 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions

And tomorrow we're sending

Thompson out on three days rest. You'd think we would at least let him pitch on a full tank of gas.

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, and

Chicago is losing 4-0.

by Pujols on Sep 25, 2007 8:41 PM EDT reply actions

did Al just say

Adam Harang? >_>

by Pujols on Sep 25, 2007 8:43 PM EDT reply actions

Always

Al ALWAYS says Adam Harang.

He truly believes that is his name.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Sep 25, 2007 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Cub fans are already fretting over -

the post season 25 man roster, and who they're going to face in round one, and who their #1 starter is, and when to start icing the champagne.

by Urban Pawnee on Sep 25, 2007 8:46 PM EDT reply actions

Haha.

Yeah, they even have shirts on mlb.com

http://shop.mlb.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2874181

by Pujols on Sep 25, 2007 8:48 PM EDT reply actions

tempting fate

Isn't that a surefire way to ensure the bad luck continues? I might have to buy one of those to wear just in case they do go ahead and choke.

"Show me a guy who takes his time on the mound and I'll show you a damned loser." - Leo Durocher

by mattyfrommo on Sep 25, 2007 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions

How has our team

won 70 games this year? With all the injuries, the horrible rotation, and our inept offense, we are lucky to not have 100 losses.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me

by heathen on Sep 25, 2007 8:49 PM EDT reply actions

It's the division, just like in past years...

The NL Central is just a very, very bad division.

by DiscoJer on Sep 25, 2007 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions

it's because a blowout loss

only counts as one loss. things snowball within games, but usually (until this last couple of weeks) they have been able to bounce back. win 3-2, lose 13-1, win 6-4, lose 8-0 and you have a bad run differential and a not-quite-as-bad record.

by willievinceterry on Sep 25, 2007 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Lol

someone should email Dan and Al and ask if they read VEB. >_>

by Pujols on Sep 25, 2007 8:50 PM EDT reply actions

Is it bad

that I want the Brewers to win? This means they'll have an (admittedly outside) chance of unseating the Cubs, and my philosophy for the Central is, anyone but them. We have nothing left to play for, the Brewers may...

Sparks of Dementia Still Demented.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Sep 25, 2007 9:10 PM EDT reply actions

No

I want the Brewers to win too. lol

by Pujols on Sep 25, 2007 9:11 PM EDT reply actions

strike three...

was strike 3 to looper any where close? in gameday it was way inside...

by abc789987 on Sep 25, 2007 9:14 PM EDT reply actions

looked closer

it looked closer then what gameday shows

by StLHugo on Sep 25, 2007 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions

it wasn't a strike...

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 25, 2007 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Eck

we'd appreciate if you didnt try to injure albert more with your overthrows

by Pujols on Sep 25, 2007 9:15 PM EDT reply actions

Eckstein really must not like Albert

"Show me a guy who takes his time on the mound and I'll show you a damned loser." - Leo Durocher

by mattyfrommo on Sep 25, 2007 9:15 PM EDT reply actions

At least it was something new...

Usually his throws are just way to the side, or in the dirt. I think this was the first time he threw it over him.

by DiscoJer on Sep 25, 2007 9:18 PM EDT reply actions

lol

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Cubs losing

Cubs losing in the top of the 9th, willis 2 hit them through 8 now gardner in score 4-2 lee up

by StLHugo on Sep 25, 2007 9:18 PM EDT reply actions

Ramirez got ejected from the Cubs/Marlins game. .

anyone know what happened????

Sooner or later it all comes down to faith. . . THEN performance.

by faninexile on Sep 25, 2007 9:27 PM EDT reply actions

BCB

according to BCB last strike wasn't close so he swung at a bad pitch then he cussed out the home plate umpire

by StLHugo on Sep 25, 2007 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Typical

Sooner or later it all comes down to faith. . . THEN performance.

by faninexile on Sep 25, 2007 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Do the cubs and the brewers

not know they have to keep playing with umpires to win?

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions

CUBS LOSE!

by Pujols on Sep 25, 2007 9:29 PM EDT reply actions

Cubs lost. . .now, what do WE do????

Sooner or later it all comes down to faith. . . THEN performance.

by faninexile on Sep 25, 2007 9:29 PM EDT reply actions

Happy either way?

by Urban Pawnee on Sep 25, 2007 9:30 PM EDT reply actions

wow on gameday it looked like

Floyd about had a homer.

by Pujols on Sep 25, 2007 9:30 PM EDT reply actions

I think it was the Champ shirts

the curse of the goat may become the curse of the shirt

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 9:32 PM EDT reply actions

This just in -

random cub fans phoning in "conspiracy" theory on the radio after watching the Cards laying down for the Brewers tonite.

"Looper looks like he's throwing batting practice!"

"The fielders look like they're not trying. Throwing the ball away."

If only it were true.

by Urban Pawnee on Sep 25, 2007 10:09 PM EDT reply actions

Kip!!

Kipper!!! why not pitch like that when u start?
94-95 with some late sinking movement.

God the Cards could use a arm like that in the rotation.

Why not tell him to pitch balls out for 4 innings and call that a good start for him. Think we can send him to Rick's sports psychologist?

by ICbirdfan on Sep 25, 2007 10:13 PM EDT reply actions

I wish

if we could have only figured out how to put his pitches to use--power and finesse. We really could use his "stuff" next year (we certainly could have used it this year!)

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions

And Wells will probably become

the next Marquis. I bet Lou could do something with him. Wouldn't that be the kicker if he came back and beat us?

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 10:15 PM EDT reply actions

I'd be fine with that...

just get them the hell out of here.

He's entered JD Drew and Jason Marquis territory. I don't care if they have success elsewhere, just so long as they are elsewhere.

Well, let's go to the old mill anyway -- get some cider!

by Alxfritz on Sep 26, 2007 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions

cubs fans

Cubs fans are such babies! Why not just focus on your team wining. The best thing I heard was that MLB does not want the Cubs in the playoffs??WTF, MLB wants the Mets & Cubs in for sure.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 25, 2007 10:29 PM EDT reply actions

After the way the Cards rolled over for the Cubs

The least they could do for the Brewers would be give them 3 games. I mean, I'm pretty sure the Brewers series vs. the Cards and the Cubs series vs. the Cards is the difference between the two teams in the standings. How many games did the Cards win from the Cubs this year? 3?

Seriously. It's in the Bag. It would take a collapse of Epic proportions, EVEN for the Cubs to blow the lead they have with the games left. They are playing the Marlins and the Reds while Crew gets the Padres. There is no way the Cubs aren''t winning the division.

Must be that 99 years of losing. They can't even except a winning season when they have one.

by cloistermaximus on Sep 25, 2007 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Cincy has played the Cubs tough

this year, so it could be interesting this weekend.

But without Griffey the Reds are not the same team they were a couple of weeks ago, but they can still put up some runs.

It's going to come down to the Cubs starters if they win this, Lilly gave up 4 tonight, which has to make Sweet Lou start to sweat a bit.
And Great America Ballpark is a hitters park, so anything can happen. The Cubs better hope they can take the next two in Flordia and we win tomorrow or they will be feeling the pressure BIG TIME.

by KYCards on Sep 25, 2007 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Cincy vs. Cubs

Cincy has won 8 of 15 games = .533%

They scored 58 runs while allowing 75 runs which translates to something like 5 or 6 wins.

So how did they "play the Cubs tough".

Cin v. Chi

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Sep 25, 2007 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Over their most recent series

they have played some close games and the Reds have won the last two series against the Cubs. One game a couple of weeks ago the Cubs came back and won a game in the 9th when Cincy was ahead (the Cubs only win in that 3 game set at Wrigley)
The Reds also took 2 out of 3 back in August as well.

The Reds have played the Cubs a lot tougher than we have this year.

The Reds are a little banged up but I don't think they will just roll over and let the Cubs beat them this weekend. We'll see here soon.

by KYCards on Sep 25, 2007 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Also the Reds have a better bullpen

now than they did earlier in the year. That should help them.

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions

But on the other side of the coin

Both Griffey and Dunn are done for the season and both were big factors in the Reds winning both of those Cubs series.

So this is the Cubs divison to loose. I think all they have to do is win 2 more games and it's over. So if they win the next two in Flordia the Reds series probably won't matter.

by KYCards on Sep 25, 2007 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions

it seems self evident

that if they won more games against them than they lost, then they "played them tough." he didn't say they dominated them. pythagorean record and run differential do not count in the standings, in wins and losses, in head to head record, etc.

by willievinceterry on Sep 25, 2007 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions

congratulations

I'm aware that they don't "count". What they do tell us is that the Cubs have been drastically outscoring the Reds. Just because the Reds eeked out more wins doesn't mean they weren't getting blown out of the water as the other data shows.

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Sep 26, 2007 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions

"data"

give me a break.

by willievinceterry on Sep 26, 2007 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions

give you a break from what

statistical analysis? Asking someone else on the blog a question and having you snarkily reply?

I don't think the Reds have "played the Cubs tough". I asked the poster what they meant and then you want to come and bash what is very straightforward analysis on my part. I didn't whip up some random bizarro statistic that has 3000 derivations. I used their Pythagorean record -- get over yourself.

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Sep 26, 2007 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions

oy vey

I don't like coming home to the Cardinal games very much this year. . .

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Sep 25, 2007 10:55 PM EDT reply actions

4 games and 21 runs to go

by my calculations...

*

Supps is stil awesome.

500- What it takes enough to win at Rummy, at Indy and in the NL Central.

by Zubin on Sep 25, 2007 10:57 PM EDT reply actions

After seeing Yost go mental

last night with the umps and tonight with his cursing at TLR when Supp nearly decapitated Albert, I think it could be embarrassing to have him represent the NL Central.

I don't like either team right now. We seem to have a nutcake in each corner. Who is Nuttier? Ned or Lou? It's a tough call right now.

Too bad the Reds are out of contention. I'd even prefer the Astros (granted with their new manager).

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 11:26 PM EDT reply actions

Bullpen injuries growing

Russ Springer is having upper back and shoulder spasms.

Troy Percival can't pitch because of elbow discomfort.

Ryan Franklin is suffering from arm fatigue

Tyler Johnson still has the flu.

Well, tomorrow should be fun with Thompson going out on three days rest to start and no bullpen to back him up.

by nycardfan on Sep 25, 2007 11:37 PM EDT reply actions

Sigh. Ironic

Franklin, a starter, has arm fatigue.

by sdrone on Sep 26, 2007 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions

I've decided to adopt the Rockies...

as the team i'd like to see make the playoffs this year and go far, seeing as how the Birds are out of it. They are just a very likable team, with lots of talent.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 26, 2007 9:12 AM EDT reply actions

I'm rooting for them too

for the same reasons.

by nycardfan on Sep 26, 2007 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions

For some odd reason...

I find myself rooting for the Phillies. No particular reason really. I enjoy watching a second place team fighting to catch the team ahead of them. They have a legitimate shot at the East and the Wild Card. Should be interesting.

The Rockies are a lot of fun to watch. Matt Holliday is a beast.

"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Sep 26, 2007 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions