Game 148 Open Thread: September 16, 2007
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11-8, 4.17 |
0-2, 12.38 |
Well, I had been prepared to simply ignore the Cards' recent slide for my first foray into my now-regular Sunday slot. I do want to start, though, by acknowledging what a great job Erik did in this spot for so long. He and azruavatar do tremendous work over at futureredbirds and I can't help but be impressed with their ability to put together such great stuff over there w/ the little cards and still be able to come up w/ such good stuff over here w/ the big boys. Thanks to Larry for giving me this opportunity.
As I was saying, I was just going to ignore the recent slump - my mother always told me "if you can't say anything nice...". Well, I didn't have anything nice to say. Some good things happened yesterday but we may only remember LaRussa's bizarre decision making in game 1.
But, as it turned out, it may as well have been seat cushion night in St. Louis as the Cards now have a 1 game winning streak. Even so, w/ all the bad stuff there is to discuss, I wanted to start a thread about something positive. There'll be lots of time to discuss all the other stuff. It also occurred to me that, with the constant back-and-forth about Reyes lo these 6 months, the discussion about Adam Wainwright has been conspicuously absent.
With Carp out for most of next year, Mulder coming off major arm surgery, Reyes a major question mark (at best), there are some major holes in the rotation that need to be filled. But the team won't have a ton of resources at their disposal. They'll also need a SS, plus whatever else they decide to do. So, I thought, we need to know exactly what we've got in Adam Wainwright - with Carp out, do we need a #1 or #2 for next year (thus costing upwards of $10 M)? Is Wainwright the #1 or #2 pitcher we need and we can spend a little less in the rotation so that there's more to spend on one of our other needs. What can we expect from Adam Wainwright? How good is he?
Just for perspective, Wainwright presently is the 31st best pitcher in baseball by VORP. His ERA+ is 117, RA+ is 1.21, his WARP1 is 5.8 and his WPA is 1.16 (40th best in baseball). Even so, he's kind of gone unnoticed, even by Cards' fans. Of course, we know he's our best starter but I'm not sure that many of us have come to appreciate how good Wainwright's been this year. He's only 25 years old and in his first year as a starter. At age 25, Baseball Prospectus calculates his MORP at over $17 million this year...and he's earning about $400K.
To put his season in perspective, I compared this year, Wainer's age-25 season, to that of the other really good pitchers in baseball. I compared their results, in terms of VORP, SNLVAR, WARP1, ERA+ and RA+. Most importantly, however, I compared their peripherals b/c it is BB/9, K/9, HR/9 and GB% that are most predictive of future success. I compared Wainwright to 34 other pitchers, most of whom are in the top 30 in VORP this year (a couple of the top 30 haven't had their age-25 seasons yet - Cain, Carmona). The table below displays those pitchers whose age-25 seasons were most comparable to Wainwright. The number to the right of each statistic is their rank among the 35 pitchers. I added up all the rankings and the other 8 pitchers in the table are those whose peripherals and results most closely lined up w/ Wainwright's. Wainwright's BB/9 is higher and K/9 lower than most in the group but he is close to most of those pitchers in 3 of the 4 categories.
Table 1
| Year | BB/9 | Rank | K/9 | Rank | HR/9 | Rank | GB% | Rank | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Smoltz | 1992 | 2.92 | 22 | 7.84 | 12 | 0.62 | 8 | 44.8 | 26 |
| Wainwright | 2007 | 3.12 | 23 | 5.93 | 28 | 0.59 | 6 | 49.4 | 15 |
| Haren | 2006 | 1.82 | 2 | 7.10 | 15 | 1.25 | 29 | 45.4 | 24 |
| Beckett | 2005 | 2.92 | 21 | 8.36 | 8 | 0.71 | 10 | 43.9 | 29 |
| Webb | 2004 | 5.15 | 34 | 7.10 | 17 | 0.74 | 11 | 77.3 | 1 |
| Burnett | 2002 | 3.96 | 31 | 8.94 | 4 | 0.53 | 4 | 49.9 | 13 |
| Schilling | 1992 | 2.35 | 10 | 5.85 | 29 | 0.44 | 3 | 45.0 | 25 |
| Penny | 2003 | 2.57 | 14 | 6.33 | 23 | 0.96 | 21 | 52.9 | 10 |
| Lackey | 2004 | 2.72 | 17 | 6.53 | 22 | 1.00 | 22 | 53.9 | 9 |
We know, of course, that all of the people on this list have become pretty damn good pitchers. Burnett and, to a lesser degree, Penny's had some injury history but all of them are really good when healthy. What mattered most to me, however, was - how did they pitch the next year - in their age-26 year? What can we expect from Wainwright?
I should note that I removed Burnett from this group b/c he had Tommy John surgery the next year and threw all of 23 IP. Penny pitched well, was traded to the Dodgers, and promptly got hurt as well and wasn't able to finish the year, only throwing 143 IP. Since that's always a possibility (the injury, not the trade, god help us!) I left him in the comparison.
The next table includes their "results" stats from their age-26 season as well as their rank among all the pitchers in baseball. The bottom row shows the average of the stats.
Table 1
| Year | ERA+ | RA+ | Rank | VORP | Rank | SNLVAR | Rank | WARP1 | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Smoltz | 1993 | 112 | 119 | 31 | 46.8 | 20 | 5.8 | 23 | 6.1 |
| Haren | 2007 | 141 | 130 | 19 | 51.4 | 13 | 5.7 | 20 | 6.9 |
| Beckett | 2006 | 92 | 94 | 68 | 19.9 | 62 | 3.9 | 50 | 5.2 |
| Webb | 2005 | 124 | 121 | 22 | 46.2 | 19 | 5.3 | 24 | 7.8 |
| Schilling | 1993 | 100 | 103 | 58 | 29.6 | 47 | 4.8 | 34 | 4.4 |
| Penny | 2004 | 130 | 130 | 16 | 34.5 | 47 | 4.4 | 43 | 4.2 |
| Lackey | 2005 | 122 | 128 | 15 | 49.1 | 17 | 5.5 | 20 | 6.5 |
| Average | 117 | 118 | 39.6 | 5.1 | 5.9 |
If Wainwright's numbers were equal to the average of the numbers above, it would put him around the 30th best pitcher in baseball next year - about where he is right now. This, of course, includes Beckett's poor season and Penny's injury-shortened season (both possible). It's important to note the 4 of the 7 had excellent seasons in their age-26 season, all being among the top 20 pitchers in the game. In any case, the fact that we can compare Wainwright's age-25 season to pitchers such as Smoltz, Webb, Lackey, and Haren puts him in some pretty high cotton.
So, is Wainwright a #1 or is he really a #4 who's just a #1 by default b/c we've had the likes of Wells, Reyes, Welleymeyer, Pineiro, Maroth, et al in the rotation this year? I'm not sure he's quite a #1 but he strikes me as a legit #2 who can hold his own at the top of the rotation for the time being. If a miracle does happen and the Cards went into the playoffs this year, I'd feel pretty good w/ the wagonmaker taking the reins in game 1. He's not Carp, but he appears to be well on his way in his ascent up the rotation's ladder.
This tells me that we can build around Wainwright this offseason in the rotation. Finding a #1 doesn't need to be our foremost concern b/c we've already got one - and hopefully, two when Carp returns. The rotation lacks depth and a #2 and #3 starter - with Mulder and Looper at the end. Don't misunderstand - I'm not saying we shouldn't try to get the best starter we can. What I'm saying is that, though we need pitching, we also have other needs (SS, in particular) and shouldn't feel the need to add a true #1. In short (I know - too late), Wainwright's a damn good pitcher. On a good team, he'd start game 2 of the playoffs. If Carp were healthy and the Cards were going to the playoffs, I'd feel good w/ Wainer in game 2 against anybody - Chris Young, Tom Glavine or anybody else. He is a true top of the rotation starter and should only get better - his K/9 before the All-Star break was 5.21; after the All-Star break it's 7.63. So his peripherals are getting better - we discussed earlier in the year his unusually high BABIP but the increase in his K rate is legitimate (80 IP since the break). This team has a lot of holes but not at the top of the rotation. Barring injury, that hole will be filled for a good while!
Speaking of holes - Mulder goes today. I'm not optimistic about our chances but he needs to pitch. The Cubs have been pretty bad vs. lefties this year - 27th in baseball in OPS, 28th in OBP. Maybe we have a chance for a split. Marquis goes for the Cubs - he's 2-1 vs. the Cards this year w/ 18.2 IP, 17 H, 9 ER, 7 BB, 6 K, and 3 HR. On top of that, he's lost one in a row against us. And we're on a 1 game streak also - maybe we can keep both of those "streaks" alive.
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I was saying the other day that Wainwright looks more and more like Carp every time he pitches. He's just got that look of determination. Even the way he carries himself on the mound looks like Carp. I'm okay with that. I'm also okay with all the adjustments that Adam's made this year: after All-Star break, between starts, during the games. I think he may end up being a #1 guy sometime in his career, for sure a #2. Wainwright was another fine Jocketty acquisition and I'm glad he's developed so quickly because we need him.
Your table
Table 1
Player Year BB/9 K/9 HR/9 GB%
Smoltz 1992 2.92 22 7.84 12 0.62 8 44.8 26
Wainwright 2007 3.12 23 5.93 28 0.59 6 49.4 15
Haren 2006 1.82 2 7.10 15 1.25 29 45.4 24
Beckett 2005 2.92 21 8.36 8 0.71 10 43.9 29
Webb 2004 5.15 34 7.10 17 0.74 11 77.3 1
Burnett 2002 3.96 31 8.94 4 0.53 4 49.9 13
Schilling 1992 2.35 10 5.85 29 0.44 3 45.0 25
Penny 2003 2.57 14 6.33 23 0.96 21 52.9 10
Lackey 2004 2.72 17 6.53 22 1 22 53.9 9
Table 2
Player ERA+ RA+ VORP SNLVAR WARP1
Smoltz 1993 112 1.19 31 46.8 20 5.8 23 6.1
Haren 2007 141 1.30 19 51.4 13 5.7 20 6.9
Beckett 2006 92 0.94 68 19.9 62 3.9 50 5.2
Webb 2005 124 1.21 22 46.2 19 5.3 24 7.8
Schilling 1993 100 1.03 58 29.6 47 4.8 34 4.4
Penny 2004 130 1.30 16 34.5 47 4.4 43 4.2
Lackey 2005 122 1.28 15 49.1 17 5.5 20 6.5
Thats nice to see
No.
Of the three ball in play types, (GB, FB, and LD) the only one that you really want to be really concerned with is the line drive percentage. a pitcher who gives up a high pct. of line drives is typically letting hitters square the ball up too often to be successful. When looking at a pitcher with a high FB%, what you should look at is the pct. of those fly balls that leave the yard. If a pitcher is inducing a lot of flyballs, but keeping them in the park, he can still be perfectly successful. In fact, fly balls tend to have more of a depressing effect on a pitcher's BAA, as well as his overall #baserunners/9, than groundballs do. Like I said, there isn't really a magic formula, but each type of pitcher has certain numbers you can look at to get an idea of how well he executes his own personal game plan.
All that being said, I, personally, do tend to prefer a pitcher who gets most of his outs on the infield. They seem to avoid big innings a little better, in general, at least anecdotally. I'm not sure if the numbers support me or not, but that's just my personal perception.
As far as Wainwright's percentages, though, he gets plenty of ground balls, particularly with such a good K/9 rate.
by the red baron on Sep 16, 2007 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I've been working on something
I'm not very good with the stats end of things...
Not to mention that fly balls caught at the warning track have got to be demoralizing to the batter who sees it as "almost" getting it done.
Definitely
Nice post, Houston.
I agree with you, that the top of the Cards' rotation for next year doesn't look like the most pressing need. I think Adam is capable of doing a very nice job anchoring the staff. To me, the middle infield is a much more pressing concern, followed by trying to add depth to the rotation, in the middle to back end type of guys. (I may need to find a better way to put that, than 'back end type guys'. Too easy to misinterpret.) I love that Wainwright has managed to get his K/9 rate into such good shape, despite pitching within a system/philosophy that tends to devalue the ability to miss bats.
Again, welcome to Sundays.
Agree with the others
Great first post
With the Cardinals season cooked, those player have to have an awful feeling this morning going to the ballpark realizing that if not for 2 bullpen meltdowns (Izzy and Franklin), they'd be 2 games out of 1st place.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 9:43 AM EDT reply actions
Agreed, Hardcore.
by the red baron on Sep 16, 2007 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice first post, houston.
story about last night
by cumby on Sep 16, 2007 11:18 AM EDT reply actions
Congrats, cumby
Is it really possible to have
by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 16, 2007 11:20 AM EDT reply actions
Too many #1s
On the other hand, if you try to
i don't think there are even
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
is there insurance for juan
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Today's pitching matchup
The discarded, flaky healthy arm
vs
The injured, former dominant pitching ace
The Cardinals tempted fate that Mulder would be back at this point and being able to pitch better than the likes of Jason Marquis.
Will he today? Likely not. Will Tony even give Mulder the 'A+' lineup to back him up? Likely not.
Will Miguel Cairo start at 1st base and bat 3rd? Possibly.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 11:24 AM EDT reply actions
Here's the lineup
True
Ryan SS
Ankiel RF
Pujols 1B
Edmonds CF
Ludwick LF
Molina C
Branyan/Barden 3B
Mulder P
Miles 2B
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Wainwright's season has been a
Now for some more positive news, I give you the "Pedro Report" Martinez has been one of my favorite players for a long time and he pitched in his 3rd start since rotator cuff surgery.....his line
6 innings, 7 hits, 1 earned run, 0BB 9K's, 98 pitches. That was against the Phillies. He got a no decision. His ERA since returning is 1.69. I have never seen a player enjoy his time at the park more than him and I'm glad I'll get to see him pitch again.
What's most promising
ERA By Month
March/April:6.12
May: 5.00
June: 3.69
July: 3.09
August: 2.00
September: 2.41
First Half: 4.66
Second Half: 2.49
Does his overall season make him a #1 starter? Probably not. It shows him as a great 2 or 3. However, his second half shows him as a #1, thats for sure. If he can keep his second half form, he will be dominant next year.
I gave up on this team making the playoffs
However, I guess it was eating my morning Cap'N Crunch that I realized: "We're chasing the &%&%#@) Cubs".
With a win today, 5 games out is still a tall mountain to climb barefoot. Yet, I'll tell you what...if there was ever a team to go on a huge losing streak to close out the season, it's the Cubs.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 12:37 PM EDT reply actions
HoustonCard
by hawaiifan on Sep 16, 2007 12:51 PM EDT reply actions
Lineups per Yahoo!
Mr. Japan lf
M. DeRosa 2b
D. Lee 1b
Crybaby 3b
Ginger rf
Eckstein's bitch cf
G. Soto c
R. Cedeno ss
Betty p
St. Louis
Super Mario 2b
Roy Hobbs rf
A. Pujols 1b
J. Edwards cf
R. Ludwick lf
Sand Frog 3b
Y. Molina c
M. Mulder p
B. Ryan ss
I hope we drill Ramirez twice today.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 1:03 PM EDT reply actions
WOW!!
by champion on Sep 16, 2007 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
One complaint.
Super Mario = ?
Sand Frog = ?
super mario = aaron miles?
as for sand frog, i have no idea what that means.
spiezio
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Aaron Miles *is* Super Mario

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
This
Thanks for that, I needed it.
by yer dog first on Sep 16, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Great first post houstoncardinal
I also had a question similar to Quel's above. Because Wainwright's first couple of months were negatively influenced by his pitching with a sore, tired, or slightly injured arm (depending on the source), does the whole season offer a good predictive value for his future?
I would be interested in a similar analysis of Wainwright's pitching after his LA meltdown. I believe it's at that point, or a couple of games later, that he said his arm had gotten back to normal.
For some players at least, it seems like context would be important to be taken into account. Injuries could easily distort predictive value. But I would think that for groundball pitchers, the defensive capabilities of their team could also factor in. What park they play in would also seem like it would be important--size, altitude, shape, hills in the middle of the outfield, etc. would seem like they would influence particular stats and make some comparisons across teams problematic.
Anyway, very interesting post. I'm really looking forward to your analysis of Looper's pitching as well.
by nycardfan on Sep 16, 2007 1:34 PM EDT reply actions
It seems to me
BTW
BB/9: 2.67
K/9: 6.13
You're right, much better than overall. Still, if you're going to compare those pitchers correctly, you have take the entire thing, not cherry-pick the numbers you prefer.
Thanks for calculating that
I wouldn't characterize adjusting for context--especially if you are looking at an injury related downturn--as cherry picking, but I understand why you see it this way.
I agree if someone is simply choosing the best numbers out of a season, that would be cherry-picking and nonsensical But if a downturn is related to a physical injury or impairment that may not be repeated the following year(s), then your predictive value could be quite off. I'm sure scouts take specific contexts into account when they are assessing someone's potential talent.
Because people play in concrete situations and not in the abstract, it seems like there should be some way to make predictive adjustments for specific performance distorting circumstances.
by nycardfan on Sep 16, 2007 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Completely off topic but
I agree
by nycardfan on Sep 16, 2007 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Has anyone noticed that our regular
I wouldn't mind Renteria coming back
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to keep Ryan at SS
by nycardfan on Sep 16, 2007 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I have and I'm glad
Besides all the injuries
by nycardfan on Sep 16, 2007 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Mulder living at 89
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 2:17 PM EDT reply actions
how is mulder looking
i agree that every out (and every scoreless inning) is a small victory. i really hope he can hang in for 5 (even 6) today and give up no more than 3 runs.
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 2:24 PM EDT reply actions
I only saw the third out
After that inning, I am not exactly impressed
Rick might have hurt his left hand...
how?
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Rick but his hands out
I would perfer Taguchi to Edmonds against Marquis
ruthless efficiency
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 2:40 PM EDT reply actions
Marquis strikes me as the kind of athlete
Actually, I was thinking along the same line,
the thing with st louis...
'04?
i think it's the other way around this year, though. they've been more patient than most teams would be, and he has been reinserted into the rotation a couple of times due to a lack of better options at the time.
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
well
I agree they have been okay this year, but they have also spent all year trying to change how he does things, maybe if we were dominating the division ladunc would be more apt to let him go out and do his thing and see how it plays out.
Soriano cost himself a triple with that ...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 16, 2007 2:43 PM EDT reply actions
According to Probable Pitchers
Tomorrow's starter is Tobe Announced, who must be a callup.
Oh my bad...
Speezer
crap
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 2:51 PM EDT reply actions
Might as well...
we need to see what he's got for next year
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Also...
play next month, Mulder has to get on track. You are right he is worse than Reyes or Wells, but he has a much higher upside in the short term than either.
muldoo
Why does Mulder have to pitch, anyway?
Why couldn't he be used as a reliever? He seems to be okay for an inning.
Because if the Cardinals are to have a chance to
Fine.
by champion on Sep 16, 2007 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Mulder has very little short term upside
Mulder's main problem is his arm strength/endurance, and he can work on that in Florida just as well here. He's not going to be at full strength period, until next year, even if then.
Mulder
Mulder could have thrown a 2 hitter
We're going to be 1 hit by Betty.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 3:07 PM EDT reply actions
At least earlier in the season
sigh
Cub hitters on the day
obp = 12/20, .600
We pitch like we've got nothin' between our legs
Just throw strikes and let the defense play.
And for God's sake, the only plus pitch Mulder has right now is his curveball. Why the HELL don't we call for 3 consecutive curveballs on an 0-2 count.
I honestly feel like we make pitch selection decisions more difficult on purpose.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Its the coaching staff trying to do too much
Mulder has not pitched more innings than runs given up since last year. He has no business being in the rotation. He is giving us 1-2 good innings then falling apart. Let him pitch in relief the rest of this year. Then let him do the conditioning in the offseason for endurance.
We need our catchers to actually setup in the freaking strike zone. We complain about the pitchers but they are throwing the ball to the catcher and usually that a foot out of the zone. That doesn't help anyone.
Also if a pitcher has 4 pitchers. Two are getting rocked and two are getting outs. Don't go to the ones getting rocked just because you think you might get a DP when the bases are loaded. Duncan needs to realize that what gets outs with no one on still works with men on base.
who would be your #4 and #5 starters?
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Easy
Looper
Pinero
Thompson
Reyes
Emergency starter Wells
fair enough
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Should add
They will have bad games, they will have good games. The diffrence between them is a good games for Reyes/Thompson is 5-7ip.
A good game for Mulder right now is he doesn't get rocked until the 3rd. I want him in the rotation next year, but he isn't ready yet.
well...
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
way to work out of a jam
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 3:17 PM EDT reply actions
Check Kelvin's back pocket
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 3:33 PM EDT reply actions
Watching Marquis today
We need a change to a more scientific form of coaching on this team.
Hmm, His new pitching coach
springer, wellemeyet, izzy, wainwright
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget Wells
Jason Marquis
STL 2004 6.17
STL 2005 4.35
STL 2006 4.45
CHC 2007 4.98
It's not like Marquis is suddenly a strikeout pitcher and I'm sure Duncan didn't forbid him from striking batters out. Marquis was just a crappy pitcher for half of 2005, most of 2006, and some of 2007.
Somewhat agree
I just see Duncan doing more harm than good to this team at this point.
Signing Wells
Starting Mulder before he was ready.
Using Maroth
All of those are the expense of having Duncan/TLR.
the high part of the zone
lots of people on the list were enthusiastic about the wells signing. and the maroth deal. i don't know ... they've had successes and failures.
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, the low part of the zone hasn't
Wainwright does work up at times. It makes the curve more deceptive. However, almost all our other starters don't.
As Horton and Shannon have pointed out
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
which messes with the batters head.......
game
in reference to his surgically repaird body.
note it's not my idea orginally, someone else posted it as Muldr2d2; I just expanded it a little.
by yer dog first on Sep 16, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
repaird
by yer dog first on Sep 16, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The way that looks
by yer dog first on Sep 17, 2007 4:07 AM EDT up reply actions
i didn't get to watch on tv
by willievinceterry on Sep 16, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't we catch a break?
This should be a tie-game.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 4:37 PM EDT reply actions
Lame
I didn't see anything in Howry's straight fastball to explain his severe reverse platoon splits. Strange.
That was a sickening blown opportunity.
missed that
by yer dog first on Sep 16, 2007 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
We should learn a lot about next years team by having him in there.
hopefully
it was a good cut though
WOW!
That guy really sucks! makes my blood boil when he's in the line up!
.172 0hr 4rbi.....Now thats impressive!
But he was the tying run at the plate
You mean to tell me
by yer dog first on Sep 16, 2007 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
kelly spinnett was available
miles
but i hate that chipmunk
Just ordered my Prince Fielder throwback
Go Brewers!
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 5:22 PM EDT reply actions
Usually on years
The next 2 weeks can't go by fast enough for me. And I bet there are a lot of players in the Cards locker room who are starting to feel the same way.
Can't wait to hit the re-set button this coming spring and hope for a better and more healthy year in 2008.
Agreed
I'm glad to see some more optimism in some of the comments. Weve got some work to do in the O.S., but, I think we'll be fine come Spring Training.
by yer dog first on Sep 16, 2007 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
McFarlane
Go Brewers!
Looking for positives in Mulder's start today:
- his ERA went down!
- he still cuts a fine figure on the mound, handsome man that he is
- his arm didn't fall off
I hate to say this
Just took a gander at the Brewers schedule, and while they do play their last 7 games at home they play them against us for 3 and then the Padres for 4. They could very well sweep us but they are going to have a heck of a time against that Padres team and their pitching with the Pads also fighting to get into the playoffs. The Brewers also have a 4 game series against the Braves this week that will be tough series for them.
The Cubs are home this week against the Reds and Pirates and then on the road for thier final 6 games against The Marlins and the Reds.
If the Cubs continue to get good pitching from their starters they can win this thing pretty easy.
Let's hope the Brewers get hot and their pitching suddenly becomes lights out.
furthermore ...
by Urban Pawnee on Sep 16, 2007 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
They face the Reds twice
by nycardfan on Sep 16, 2007 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The Reds have been putting up a lot of
They are the Cubs
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2007 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Pitchers
Mulder is awful!!! Why is Pedro doing so well? Mulder should really be better at this point in my opinion. He has had 2 minor league starts and 3 MLB starts? He was throwing before his minor league starts. I am not too optimistic about him wining 9 games next season.
Pedro vs Mulder
To me Mulder looks as good as anyone could have expected. He isn't going to get back to the 2004 form. I expect slightly better than league average from him in 2008. Right now he simply doesn't have his endurance and falls apart after 2ip.
2004 or 2005 form
Question
14 more games
Well
Or that he won't get an extra month
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 17, 2007 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
He may reach 100 RBI
by Dexter Westbrook on Sep 17, 2007 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Anyone know what our CURRENT payroll is?
Take out:
Carpenter
Rolen
Encarnacion
Kennedy
Wilson
What kind of 'value' are we playing with now? I know we've added payroll in Pineiro, Branyan, Cairo, etc but taking those 5 players out, $29 M of our used payroll isn't on the field.
Ugh.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 17, 2007 12:32 AM EDT reply actions
any body read this?
granted i know what Bernie's trying to do. but i'm still pissed off at Tony's double standard.
the pussies that are the STL media should be raking Tony over the coals for this crap.
yet Bernie is the only one to say anything. and he still didn't throw any knock out blows like he should have done.
that being said, f the flubs & f bi-polar betty.
(edited for the kids,they're our future you know)
where are those damn puppies?

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