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Like a phoenix from the ashes...

Well, describing that game as deflating is almost an absurd understatement.  It's almost grown boring talking about these blowout losses that the team is suffering.  It was especially disheartening to watch Marky Mark get clobbered to the degree that he did.  I wrote last week that I believed that Mulder was the key to the team's success this season, and I still stand by that.  The fact that he seems to be having issues getting things together for this season indicates to me that the season is, likely over.  I will still cheer loudly for a miraculous winning streak to bring them back into contention, but it's an eventuality that just doesn't strike me as particularly likely.

It's nice to see Jimmy E finally post an OPS of .850 over the course of a month.  Similarly, it's nice to see that Chris Duncan's just been injured for the past month, and wasn't slumping in such a way as to indicate that opposing pitching have simply just figured him out.  I've been thinking that he's been running strangely for a while now, so a groin injury makes sense.  He, at least, has a chance to rest and heal and come back next year.   It's entirely possible that the disaster that was Adam Kennedy's season last year was simply a fluke caused by his injury.  Yadi's progress on offense has been encouraging, to say the least, and Albert has been at least holding together, and staying in the MVP race.  All the team realistically needs is a short stop.

That is, if this recent slump by Ankiel is just a slump.  He's an aggressive all-or-nothing power/strikeout hitter.  It was inevitable that he was going to get hot and that he was going to get cold as soon as he came up to the majors.  It's also undeniable that he has been heckled pretty aggressively since the hGH story was broken.  The heckles last night were particularly painful and clear over the television broadcast.  You can see that look of bravado and confidence not quite so present in him.  Also, there's the fact that the timing of this slump is just so conspicuous.  

If we were inclined to overanalyze things (and this is a blog, after all), I would be inclined to make a parallel to the previous treatment that Rick received from the powers that be: before, when the decision to start him in that game one was made, he was "shielded from the press" by having Darryl Kile make the pregame press conference, and then having Ricky start as a surprise, and then, with what happened, he didn't end up being shielded at all.

This time, you had the allegations surface, and you had the team/his handlers "defend" him by having him stand up and make a non-denial denial and gradually slink away from the microphone.  That is not consistent with allowing someone to build confidence in himself.  That is not consistent with the bravado that he showed at the plate during his first month in the majors.  That is not a reflection of the attitude of "I did nothing wrong, and now I'm going to take this bat and beat you using my talent and skill alone."  

In encouraging Rick to give that weak statement, whoever was talking to him essentially was telling him that they didn't believe in him.  I don't believe that his psyche is that brittle to be broken by something like this, but I can believe that he likely has bigger things then baseball on his mind right now.  Here's to hoping that he pulls out of it.

Update [2007-9-12 12:12:34 by Valatan]:: Here is a worthwhile read on steroids in professional wrestling. Let's hope that we just don't come to tacit acceptance of steroids in baseball.

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I too was underwhelmed and
disappointed by Rick's handling of the controversy, but I would be interested in hearing an analysis of the situation from someone with legal expertise.  If I were his lawyer, and were trying to look ahead to understand what kind of risks/liabilities/legal troubles my client MIGHT face down the road in this litigious world, how would I advise him? What kind of public statement could my client make that would minimize any future possible problems? (And keep in mind that if I am his lawyer, he is the only entity that I am concerned about; the welfare of the Cardinals isn't relevant.) Any lawyers reading this blog who can shed some light?
"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 12, 2007 10:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As an attorney...
who has counseled corporate executives and other professionals (not athletes) on similiar situations, I can say that the best way to address these problems is always to confront them head-on.  I would have advised Rick to take an approach similar to what Larry suggested in one of his earlier posts on the matter; essentially, stand up and say, "I took HGH on the advice and prescription of a doctor.  It was entirely legal and not banned by baseball at that time."  End of story.  

I don't know that I'd assume Rick was following the script of his agent/attorneys when giving his "non-denial denial".  I've had clients go off the ranch and ad lib things that they think support the message but actually undermine what we're trying to accomplish.  In that case, you're often stuck with what's been said, since any attempt to clarify your position later often looks bad.  After all, you only get one chance to make a first impression.

by The Secret Weapon on Sep 12, 2007 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks. I guess what I'm wondering
is if there might be scenarios where a public figure will make what we would consider weaselly statements not because he/she doesn't have the guts to respond more forcefully, but rather because the weasel words are the only way to avoid exposure to other legal problems down the road.  Or maybe I'm overthinking this.
"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 12, 2007 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The lawyer I listened to
specifically address that question.  He said that by not giving a detailed confession, he protects himself from the MLB and other investigations because he can cite federal HIPPA (medical privacy laws) to protect his right not to speak about his personal LEGAL medical information.

The fact that his personal medical information was disclosed without his consent is what is ILLEGAL in this whole mess.  The irony is that while many people think Ankiel did something illegal, the real question is weather the paper, in printing illegally obtained information, involved itself in an illegal act.  Federal HIPPA laws forbid any dissimination of information from a patient's personal medical records.

The very visible use of patient-doctor privacy laws in Ankiel's interview with the press may indicate how Rick will limit what the MLB can ask him and what they can do to him.  We've already seen him become a scapegoat for HGH by the press; that safeguards that he doesn't become some kind of poster boy for it by the MLB.

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to seem like I'm piling on, but
the statute in question is HIPAA, not HIPPA.
"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 12, 2007 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't spell or hit the right keys
thank you for pointing that out.  I didn't realize I had made that mistake.  My apologies for writing that post up too fast....

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't feel bad. I work in the
health field, and I think half the people who work with HIPAA for a living don't spell it right either.
"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 12, 2007 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for that perspective
I heard a sports lawyer speak prior to Rick's interview and he gave a different perspective.  He said Rick was legally safe but that if he gave specifics, he was at risk of two things.  

One is that he might open himself to being involved in other investigations as a witness and that this would keep the story alive in the news and would have a continuing impact on him as a person and a player.  

Second, he said that in media frenzies like this, it's best to say what is true but not to be too personally disclosive because that can encourage the press to dig into other parts of his life.  A feeding frenzy, he said, is different from other circumstances.  By nature, it does not want to end.  And the suspicions of people involved are almost impossible to quell--there are always follow-up questions upon follow-up qustions.  His advice was to supply it with no oxygen.  

Ankiel was probably was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your last statement
is exactly on point.  

by The Secret Weapon on Sep 12, 2007 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not a lawyer
but my first instinct would be to keep my big yap shut and limit any disclosures of any kind. It may not be good PR, but nothing will get you deeper into trouble faster than your own mouth. Something that seems harmless when you said it can all too often come back to bite your ass. That's what reporters and prosecutors pray for.

by rockin redbird on Sep 12, 2007 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

From a lawyer on the legality of HGH & Ankiel
The 1990 amendments to the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act  criminalize distributing or possessing with the intent to distribute human growth hormone for improper purposes without the order of a physician. The chief purpose of this law was to stop the improper distribution networks: this is why prosecutors have said that they would not go after Ankiel. Prosecutions require 'knowing distribution' or 'knowing possession with intent to distribute. (This is unchanged in the 2007 version)

Based on the facts that we have, Ankiel did not distribute or intend to distribute human growth hormone.  Moreover, Major League Baseball did not ban human growth hormone until 2005. This story involves allegations in 2004.  

Thus, Ankiel did not violate the law, and he did not violate MLB rules. In light of the known benefits for post-operative medical recovery, Ankiel did not act unreasonably in taking a prescription drug prescribed by his doctor...  

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Playing While Injured
Maybe this has been covered previously, but why does this organization insist that its players play hurt.  I'm not talking about the normal aches and pains--I'm talking about serious injuries that impact performance.  The list is long--Rolen, Dunc, Jed, Mulder, etc.  Other than Albert, who is clearly a freak of nature, I there are few players who are able to play through serious injury without experiencing a significant drop-off in performance.  

At some point, mgmt needs to realize they're only prolonging the inevitable, and in the meantime, severely hurting the team's chances of winning--both in the present by playing guys who are unable produce, and in the future, as it takes longer for guys to get healthy since they delay the inevitable shutting down.

by Knish on Sep 12, 2007 10:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

One telling thing from the Jocketty presser
was that the team is not informed of injuries unless the player is physically unable to perform.  The player has to volunteer the information or else it stays between the player and Weinberg.

With Pujols and Molina's day off a week or so ago, Weinberg came to LaRussa and simply said they'd be 'really pushing it' trying to play that day.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the JD Drew saga
is the explanation of that.  No one wants to be seen by TLR and the fans as "the next JD."  I personally think that Drew ties with Lankford as the most pointlessly and obnoxiously maligned Cardinal ever.  And I also think that Duncan playing through this injury ties directly back to the Drew era.  Maybe that's just me.

by Valatan on Sep 12, 2007 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Drew was supposed to be a younger version
of what Ankiel has been as an outfielder.  It would be as if Rasmus was called up next year and underperformed while getting hurt all the time.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't blame the players
I agree that it all starts with TLR and mgmt.  Players don't want to be seen as weak or lazy or unwilling to do what it takes.  But it seems that TLR / Mgmt takes it too far and pushes these guys to the point of breaking.  

I don't buy the argument that they don't know about injuries unless a player tells them.  When you spend months and years with players, from spring training to October, you can tell when a player isn't right.  

by Knish on Sep 12, 2007 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. Sometimes I wonder
if TLR is watching the same games I'm watching.  He didn't notice Mulder's injury troubles last year and didn't notice Rolen's obvious pain before his major surgery.
"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 12, 2007 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Drew and Dunc
I think Drew was maligned because he seemed to coast on what was touted (and sometimes displayed) as so much talent.  JD missed games from a sore neck from swimming in a pond.  Does that sound like a guy who wants to be out there?  Not to me at least.

And as someone who has had a sports hernia, it is possible to play through it sometimes.  Jed did it last year with minimal shut down.

In Walt we trust

by Crafty Veteran on Sep 12, 2007 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duncan's swing
Chris has always had a very violent 'jump' in his swing, where he would throw his back leg backwards and thrash at the ball.

Well, over the past 2 months or so, he's become more stationary.  I had assumed that it was McRae adjusting his stance to make him more 'quiet' at the plate to get out of his slump.  If he had a sports hernia, then yeah, there is no way he could maintain that violent of a motion.

A healthy Duncan will hopefully return his ability to swing with power.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 10:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes.
I feel much better about Duncan's future after hearing that he has been playing hurt.  I never fully trusted the guy,a s he was not supposed to be this good at all, and was very fearful that this slump was indicating that we were seeing the "real" C-Dunc.  

Hopefully not.

by Valatan on Sep 12, 2007 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for keeping things in perspective
One of the first posts I read on this site was written when everyone (including myself) had written the team off.  The opeing statement for the thread said it was time to change expectations and enjoy the accomplishments of particular players.  It was a good message to hear then and a good one to hear now.  

I guess I would add that it is remarkable that the team is where it is now.  And any win or show of heart by individuals or the team is something that I'm going to enjoy.  I hope they can keep fighting even if they are losing.  That would be a victory in some sense.  But even if they collapse under the pressure of injuries, adversities, and our rotation woes, they still have won respect.  Maybe making it to the coin toss will be their victory this year.

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 11:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

September
They played meaningful baseball in September.  That right there is a major accomplishment and holds out hope for '08.

by Cardinal70 on Sep 12, 2007 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Before we get too excited ...
about Edmonds' .850 OPS in Aug, you might look at that dreadful .648 OPS in Sept., which is what he's done for us lately. (not much - with the bat, that is)

His OPS in July was an astounding .393.

by Urban Pawnee on Sep 12, 2007 11:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Buzz? What buzz?
Do you hear a buzz?

(Five game losing streaks tend to do that)

by Urban Pawnee on Sep 12, 2007 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Could this be a difference between
playing almost everyday in September since Ankiel came up and having more days to rest his back and legs during August?.  TLR had said this was how he was going to play Edmonds (making sure he had adequate days off) and they seemed to be following that rule until Ankiel came up.

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Games can be picked up
we play on Thursday when Milwaukee does not and an extra game Saturday when Milwaukee does not.  A tidy little 6 game winning streak here could get us back into the race.  Hell, going 5-1 would be nice.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 11:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

A 6 game win streak
Assuming Mil wins 6 straight as well(and Cubs win next 2), would put us 3 out of first place in second place by 1 game.  Then we get Phi (probably tough series) and Hou (they have been on fire lately) at home and as long as we don't bomb our record again during that time and stay around 3 games out then lookie who we get, Mil for 3.  We are still very much in control of our own future, we can still get to first place by just beating the teams in front of us (and gaining those two half games against Mil).  I don't think our season is "over" but this team seems dead in the water.  Lifeless and unemotional.  It basically reminds me of April.  What this team needs is an emotional recharge and this just might do it:

Per their official website:
Notes From Kevin - A letter from KC
Written by
September 10, 2007

Wow, what a weekend we just had, and what a week we have coming up.

St. Louis and Kansas City are two of the cities which have embraced REO Speedwagon as their own from the very beginning. Back in the late 70s, at a time when we were playing theaters and rock bars in most places around the country, we were headlining stadiums in these two special cities. KSHE radio was the first station to ever play an REO record, and we were recently inducted as the first entry to the their Hall of Fame.

So when we came in for back to back headline shows, after being away for four years, we knew we were in for some big fun. We packed St. Louis' Riverport Amphitheater on Saturday, even in the pouring rain! We were joined for background vocals on "Roll With The Changes", by Cardinal's slugger, and friend of the band, Scott Spiezio. He plans to be back in the line up next Friday...best of luck to Scotty.

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My sister was at the show
and mentioned that. I thought it was odd one would get out of rehab and go directly to an REO show, but, hell, that's our Spiez!
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 12, 2007 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

gotta appreciate calling it Riverport Ampitheater
and not the Corporate McStupid Colosseum or whatever they're calling it these days

by Valatan on Sep 12, 2007 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just gotta
roll with the changes and ride the storm out, Val.
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 12, 2007 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed
you get what you play for

by lboros on Sep 12, 2007 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I heard it from a friend, who heard it
from a friend, that Speez will be back in the lineup and not messin around.
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 12, 2007 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think what the team really needs to do
is keep pushin', keep pushin', keep pushin' on

by mattybobo on Sep 12, 2007 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

REO Spiezwagon
It's time for him to fly.
Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 12, 2007 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

let's just hope it's not
one lonely night for reyes on the mound.

you and larussa had some words today
til not another word was left to say
i see that grin boy
maybe you think you'll win boy
until you leave one belt-high once again boy

grand slam to right
grand slam to right
that's all it takes to completely break you

they say it's darkest right before the dunn
but oh that first inning can be so long
you're feelin' strong boy
tellin' yourself they're wrong boy
but how much longer can your meltdowns go on boy

(chorus)

ooh Game 1 was big time
now you're always pitching behind
you and wells are two of a kind

disclaimer: actually i hope reyes does admirably tonight. but that scenario wouldn't work as well with the lyrics.

by acham8206 on Sep 12, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh.
'Nuff said.

TSF

by TedSimmonsFan on Sep 12, 2007 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like many of the Cards
I've forgotten what I'm fighting for

by tdawg on Sep 12, 2007 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is the BEST
thread of nonsense I have seen all season... and makes me feel like I am in high school again what with all of the REO music spinning around in my head...
Just remember -- if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 12, 2007 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In last night's thread, most said
they thought Ankiel was cooked psychologically.  I agree with Valatan that he probably is not.  

He has a lot of resolve (and experience) in having faced down demons in the past.  This is not new territory.  He's overcome more hardships than most of us have ever known, including psychological ones.  He also has great support from teammates who will devote themselves to helping him (especially Edmonds and Ludwick, reportedly his closest frends).  

The fact that the team has taken body blows as a whole must help put this in perspective--he's not Juan with a career ending injury; he's not Hancock with no future at all; he's not finishing substance abuse treatment like Spezio.

Fiinally, this twist to his "fairy tale story" may be more of a shock to fans than to him.  He told someone at the P-D that he did not want to be inverviewed and he didn't want a "fairy tale" story written about him.  Why?  His reply:  "I don't trust you guys."  This was at the height of positive coverage.  He probably knew that being built up as a hero is a good story, but that it also makes you a target because it's also a great story when you fall.  He seemed hardened to the media then and I'm sure he's even more hardened to them now.

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 12:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

re: Ankiel's slump
As I say with just about every debate on a position there is: I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle (man, I'm noncommittal).

Is Rick struggling at the plate (and now in the field)? Yes. Is it caused solely from the hgh "scandal"? No. But I do think that is causing part of the problem, if not magnifying it; not only in his head but by the fans.

He's having the first (of probably many) slumps in his outfield career. And it happens to come at the point where he is the most scrutinized by critics and jeered by opposing fans. That can't help anything.

I kind of hope he sits the next two games and starts back in St Louis on Friday. Maybe all he needs a big dose of RSO (ridiculous standing ovations), not hgh.

Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 12, 2007 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree
that once he gets back to the 'lou, he will get a standing o and some air will be pumped back in him. (i hope, cause we need a boost!)
"How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?"- Leroy Satchel Paige

http://www.rankmytattoos.com/Illinois/Canton/15002.html

by Supergus on Sep 12, 2007 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and on that 1st dropped fly?
didn't he appear to have it and then all of a sudden look over towards Edmonds then back at the ball..and THAT is when it appeared he lost it...He said he lost the ball and looked towards Edmonds for help in the paper this morning, but if you watch the replay you can see Ankiel jawing at Jimmy and putting his arms out in frustration after the play...I'm not so sure that Jim didn't distract him on that play and he just lost concentration. What I DO like, if that is true, is that he just took the blame on himself and kept whatever disagreement between he and Edmonds on the field. This guy is going through a lot of emotional pressure right now..but I still think he'll pull out of it before the end of the season.

by Timbo02 on Sep 12, 2007 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

JuanE had the same thing happen to him earlier...
in the season.  Weirdness.

by sweet number 5 on Sep 12, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't think about that until just now
I know this was kind of talked about in the "new york daily news" diary, but the timing of the release of this non-story was also quite fishy.  Not only did it come out on a day in which Ankiel played exceptionally well, but it came out just before the team left on a 7 game road trip, so that he would have no support from the home fans for a week and have to deal with the publicity and lame HGH chants on the road.

I really, really hate the media in this country.

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 12, 2007 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ankiel's agent said that they
called him to tell him about the story in the middle of that last home game when Ankiel was playing so well.  He said that when he told the reporter that the team was going to depart shortly for Arizona and asked if he could have time to talk to Rick about the allegations, they said no.  I have no idea if he's telling the truth about that.  

But the story did come out not only when they would not be at home (which would have been much better in terms of support) but as they were heading to the small stadium confines of the hostile cubbies.  Whether intentional or not, it certainly made the whole thing harder.

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please, tell me you don't really think
the timing of this is related to some desire to hit Rick while he's on a road trip, or to somehow make him play worse, etc.  And do you believe it's related to some desire to help the Mets?

You might fault the DN for being overly sensationalistic about this (although their behavior was absolutely typical for the media, w.r.t. ANY public figure), but let's not go into full-blown paranoia.  I guarantee you the DN guys were not sitting around trying to micro-time the release of this story.

"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 12, 2007 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes, I think that
It's not paranoia to recognize that the article was released at the worst possible moment for Ankiel and for the team.  Look at a schedule and pick out a worse time- there was not one.  We were one game back and climbing, with momentum out the wazoo, the cubs were flailing, Ankiel was looking invincible, and then this thing happened.  It's either an extremely convenient coincidence or there was malice involved in the timing.

And I'm not sure where you got the "help the Mets" thing from- The New York Daily News is owned by the same group that owns the Cubs, not the Mets.

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 12, 2007 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's release time
may have been related to sensationalism--when would it be a big story with big impact.  That's probably not worth getting into.

My point had to do with it being more difficult for Ankiel being away from the support of home and facing a bunch of taunting fan in close quarters.  I'm hoping that coming home will help him relax some and focus better on just hitting or catching the ball.

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was pretty bold
saying that straight to the reporter's face.

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Words I've never seen in the same sentence
"worthwhile read" and "professional wrestling"

by tdawg on Sep 12, 2007 1:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

or
must see TV, and pro wrestling.
"How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?"- Leroy Satchel Paige

http://www.rankmytattoos.com/Illinois/Canton/15002.html

by Supergus on Sep 12, 2007 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rolen
I read this in the RW sidebar, thought it to be encouraging: Scott Rolen underwent season-ending surgery to repair his left shoulder on Tuesday. Doctors removed scar tissue and his left shoulder was manipulated to aid the restoration of his range of motion. He should be recovered in time for spring training.
Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 12, 2007 1:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Recovered in time for
Spring Training, and in time to suffer his next shoulder injury.  And you know there's gonna be another one.
"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 12, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sad thing is
He was healthy as a horse before the collision.  I really want Rolen back healthy more then any other player on the team, Edmonds I am already counting out as a wash next season and I fully expect Rasmus to be called up in July if he is handling AAA well when Jim heads to the DL or can't play full time anymore.

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I blame
Alex Cintron and Hee Seop Choi.  Oh, and Rolen's inability to run with his head up.

TSF

by TedSimmonsFan on Sep 12, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not like he injured his shoulder this time
his current injury is a result of the previous surgery.  He was healthy enough that he overworked the joint and built up scar tissue that restricted the range of motion.

If they had done this surgery in May, he'd already be playing again.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It seems like they should have
done it after the world series since he was having tightness then.  

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am just wondering...
so is scar tissue going to keep building up over and over like this?

by sweet number 5 on Sep 12, 2007 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably
Especially if he alters his swing and mechanics to compensate.  All that metal on tissue in there, moving around and in the same tracts, over and over and over again...  The repetition is bound to create more scar tissue.

by spants on Sep 12, 2007 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pirates and BrewCrew
Currently 4-1 Pirates top 5th.

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 1:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Now 4-2
Damian Miller solo shot makes it 4-2 then pinch hitter strikes out, Bush is already done for the day.

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ESPN's 9 players that must improve
ESPN has a list of players that must turn it on to help their team into the playoffs.  Only one AL player is on the list, 3 NLCentral players.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3015297

  1. Z
  2. Weeks
  3. Ankiel

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 2:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What?....
not ONE Brew Crew pitcher on that list?....come on!!!

by Timbo02 on Sep 12, 2007 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Suppan
To me Suppan needs to step up and do his thing that he does every Sep, Oct and just carry them on his shoulder.

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That backs up what I was seeing when I watched.
Someone has told Reyes (or our catchers) that he must throw low and away to RH batters.  Based on his numbers agains LH, control isn't an issue.  I really, really want to see Bennett or Stinette catch tonighits game.

by DriverZn on Sep 12, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Poll
Which will A-Rey have more of tonight, IP or ER?

Give a number for each.

I say 4 IP 3 ER (4 unearned, total 7)

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 12, 2007 2:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He's pitching for his career tonight
more than likely, at least with the St. Louis Cardinals he is.

If he comes out and throws 6 innings of 7 hit, 2 ER baseball with 6 Ks, he stays in the rotation atleast 1 more turn.  If he falls flat on his face again, he goes back into bullpen hell where he may get some mop-up duty in the future.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bird Land
Goold just posted a new Bird Land about Reyes.

http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/sports-bird-land/2007/09/riffs-reyes-to-the-rescue/

Interesting stat at the bottom though not about Reyes:

"Lastly, guess who leads the league in fewest GIDPs per GIDP opportunities - where GIDP stands for Ground Into Double Play? He has had 59 opportunities this season to bounce into a double play and 58 times he has not. He ranks ahead of speedy infielders, ahead of base-stealing leadoff hitters (somewhat expected) and slightly ahead of a teammate, who might surprise you. He is ... Ryan Ludwick. The rankings, according to STATS:

   1. Ryan Ludwick, STL ... 1/59
   2. Kaz Matsui, COL ... 1/57
   3. Adrian Gonzalez, SD ... 5/125
   4. Edwin Encarnacion, CIN ... 4/89
   5. Jose Cruz Jr., NYY ... 3/62
   6. Chris Duncan, STL ... 4/82
"

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ludwick seems to be a great bench
player.  He still hasn't figured out breaking pitches away, but when he does he will be of great use off the bench.

I hope we bring him back next year.  His defense is very solid.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh.....what the heck....
He'll go 7 innings with 2 ER!.....shoot guys?...after watching the last 4 games I'll try this approach ! Not much to lose!!!  LOL

by Timbo02 on Sep 12, 2007 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

eternal optimist in me
says 6 innings, 2 ER. Cards win 8-4.

by acham8206 on Sep 12, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am slightly less optimistic
I say 6 IP, 4 ER...

ever hopeful... but prepared to be pulling for the ABCs come October (and of course ABCs= Anyone but Cubs!)

Just remember -- if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 12, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brewers about to take the lead
Runners at 2nd and 3rd, no outs.

Prince Fielder up.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 2:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This is a no brainer, by the way
Jim Tracy.  You either use Marte (.098 avg vs LHB) or you walk Fielder on 4 wide.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Went with Marte
Result? In play Run(s).

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ground out
he grouned out, run scored, runner at third with 1 out, Pirates up 4-3.

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Run scoring groundout
not a bad trade off.  Gotta get a K here, Shawn Chacon.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

pitcher change
After a pitcher change he swings at 2 strikes, now it is a battle.

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In play, runs
ouch.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another change
Now Chacon is in.

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looks like Ball 3 went through
Corey Hart's ear on Gameday.

Runs scored.

Tie game.  Triple by Hart.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wear my sunglasses at night
Lots of 80's music references today...
Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 12, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I went to a Pirates game where Corey Hart
was heckled for 30 solid minutes during the bottom half of innings.

Long story, lots of choice references used by needless to say, they guy HAD to be in tears as he misplayed the 2nd ball of the inning as the Brewers lost.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Triple
Tie game 4-4

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hart intent walked
Ball 2 showed up as a pitch out, did they think a hit an run was on?  Man on third with only 1 out how many times do you use a hit an run there?  or was that just a miss labeled intent ball?

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chacon hits Miller
Brilliant.  Tracy might want to consider Jose Castillo to pitch in this situation.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miller HBP
2 outs basesloaded for Mil top 8th Grabow coming in for Pit

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

3-2 pitch
Grabow gets Miller to groundout.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lineups per goold
http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4911103#4911103
  1. David Eckstein, SS ... 10-29, .345/.406/.379
  2. Rick Ankiel, RF ... 1-3, .333/.333/1.333
  3. Albert Pujols, 1B ... 7-27, .259/.355/.556
  4. Jim Edmonds, CF ... 4-21, .190/.217/.333
  5. Ryan Ludwick, LF ... 3-4, .750/.800/2.000
  6. Yadier Molina, C ... 3-11, .273/.273/.273
  7. Russell Branyan, 3B ... 1-4, .250/.250/.250
  8. Anthony Reyes, RHP ... 2-3, .667/.667/.667
  9. Aaron Miles, 2B ... 6-23, .261/.292/.391

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 3:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Why?
Again with no Brendan Ryan.

Right now, I'd rather have Taguchi out there and let Rick get a day off.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That seems like a good idea
and they could save face in sitting him because of the day game tomorrow.  They wouldn't have to say he's stressed--not that there's anything wrong with that.

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no Brendan Ryan
...what does he have to do to get playing time?

by azruavatar on Sep 12, 2007 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Branyan instead of Ryan
How many strikeouts do we have to watch until TLR stops trusting him.  Plus he can't throw as well as Ryan.

All I can think of is TLR is saving him for the mid-day game with Waino.  But if that's the case, it doesn't look like he's saving anyone else.

Waino will probably get shafted again with a tired defense and offense.

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For those in the know
about minor league players, why aren't they playing Barden some?  I thought he was supposed to be good.  He seems like he'd have to be better than Branyan.

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's young
Just be glad that we didn't get Cairo before we had to bring up Ryan.  If we had, we never would have seen him play.

by DriverZn on Sep 12, 2007 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pirates take lead back
5-4 on a single with 2 on 1 out, still 2 on 1 out.

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 3:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I kinda wanted the Brewers to win....
I can't stomach the thought of the Cubs in the playoffs and right now, we aren't showing to be capable of winning another game for the rest of the season.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 12, 2007 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wainwright
I can only hope we win atleast 1 of his remaining starts.  Plus, the Cardinals are a much better home team.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm rooting for ANYBODY
that stops the Cubs.  The 100 year mark MUST BE MET AT ALL COSTS!  Brewers, Mets, god forbid if it happens but ANY AL team (even though I'm a NYY fan I'll even root for boston if they face the cubs)

by rocKStark5 on Sep 12, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me too
Knock on wood, but if Ryan Dempster is the Cubs' postseason closer, I can't see them winning a single series.
Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 12, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless, of course
they were to somehow play us in October.  The odds of that must be, what, 1/1000?

Like I've been saying.  The Cardinals are the only team the Cubs can beat consistently.

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Sep 12, 2007 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For comedic relief
A few quotes from the BCB thread last night.
--------------

On Carlos Lee's diving catch in LF to rob Ryan Theriot of a double:
I just felt the earth shake

by LuisSalazar

--------------

On plate discipline:
Let me guess...
Kendall sac bunt...next two guys swing at the first pitch...inning over. Call me cynical.

by Hugest Canadian Cubs Fan

--------------

On Soriano making an out at the plate:
I can do that for 136 million dollars
SIGN ME HENDRY YOU FATASS

by gocubs40

--------------

On Matt Murton, a ginger:
i feel you are underestimating
the fear generated by the glowing fire on his head he calls hair

by jds2

--------------

On things that aren't meant to be funny:
this team is joke
lou pinella is a joke, lee is a joke, soriano is a huge joke . . . bunch of freaking sucks . . . and dumpster oh jeez . . . HHAHAHAHAHAH i cant believe this team, what a bunch of losers . . . this team will not make the playoffs and hendry will get his ass fired

by CZ38

---------------

Dempster's first inning:
For all the crap...
Dempster has gotten this year, he deserves props for a great inning

by VillanuevaExperience

Dempster's second inning:
Dempster
is the biggest steaming heap of [censored] to ever step on the mound.

by adam316

by azruavatar on Sep 12, 2007 3:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Gotta admit
I often take a few minutes in the morning to read the previous night's game thread at BCB after a Cubs loss.   It'll cheer you up.

by sdrone on Sep 12, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Props.
The Murton comment was completely hilarious.  Well played.

by champion on Sep 12, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ginger Murton
I've been calling him that for a while now. (Fairly obscure reference, I guess.)

by liam on Sep 12, 2007 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sadly
I know the ginger remark from an episode of South Park. (I'm loathe to admit I used to watch that show).

by azruavatar on Sep 12, 2007 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All pitchers except Wainwright, Izzy, and Franklin
Think our pitchers should be having this discussion.

Rick Vaughn: Whats that s**t on your chest?
Eddie Harris:(wipes his chest) Crisco
Eddie Harris: (wipes his waist line) Bardol
Eddie Harris: (wipes his forehead) Vagisil
Eddie Harris: Any one of them will give you two to three inches drop on your curve ball.  Of course if the umps are watching me real close I'll rub a little jalepeno up my nose, get it runnin', and if I need to load the ball up I just.. Wipe my nose
Rick Vaughn:  You put snot on the ball?
Eddie Harris: I haven't got an arm like you kid.

I know Thompson and Mulder could use some extra sink on their pitches.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 12, 2007 5:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Per Goold via Bernie
Derrick will have more on this later...

but TLR has shifted Kip Wells to Thursday in Cincy, and Wainwright to Friday's start vs. Cubs...

--B

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 5:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

only place
wells needs to be shifted is to the pen.

by rocKStark5 on Sep 12, 2007 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather Kip pitch away
because of the boos at home.

I hope 8 days of rest doesn't hurt Wainwright.  This still allows  Waino to play the Phillies--he's the only one who has won against them (both times he faced them).  But it makes it impossible to face the Mets.  I would have liked seeing that.

Wells also had success the first time he faced them before he was rained out and it looks like the schedule would allow him to pitch against them as well if he's successful tomorrow.  

by nycardfan on Sep 12, 2007 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Side effects
First big side effect, Looper is now pitching the day game on Saturday.

Waino gets Milwaukee, Wells gets Philly if he starts Monday (aka team he has dominated cept first start after ASB)

by StLHugo on Sep 12, 2007 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pitching
You know everyone complains about who to pitch.  It is a complete waste of time to discuss for this reason.  

Besides

  1. Wainwright
  2. Looper
Who else should really start?  Pinero was just lucky in his starts that the laser beams he gave up were hit at people.  Heck I think he got hit harder than Kip, but Kip seemed to walk someone then have a seeing eye single and then a walk and a nother single.

STL has absolutely zero starting pitching.  I can't understand how Larussa has kept his cool fielding dumb questions about his decision on a starter each day.

I know Tony wants to say "Besides Adam and Braden the rest of the options are absolute horses**t so who cares who I start.  I have two starters who can generally give me 6 innings and the other starters can not give me more than two innings"

Does it really matter who starts once you have Adam and Branden start?  It makes for good discussion I guess but it is really a waste of time.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 12, 2007 5:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thats almost what I have said.
Diffrence is, if all the options are bad, I want to pich the cheapest ones and those that might improve.  Hence, Mulder, Thompson, Reyes.

by DriverZn on Sep 12, 2007 5:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Cardinals Offense providing Reyes with
their usual run support through 2.5 innings
The 2007 St. Louis Multiple Personality Disorders...Alternately;(Punchless) Judies; (Pitchless) Lounge singers; & sometimes...World Champions

by Podlol on Sep 12, 2007 7:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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