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Game 141 Open Thread: September 10, 2007

pineiro

lilly

5-3, 4.28

14-7, 3.85

i'd like to add my thanks and good wishes to erik, who yesterday wrote his final regular sunday post. he's added a ton of insight to VEB and contributed in many other ways besides the sunday posting. as he noted in his farewell, he'll still be lurking about in the comments and diaries and maybe on the front page in a pinch; he'll also be ever-present at Future Redbirds. so it's really not farewell at all; just farewell to sundays. great job erik, and thanks again.

i asked houstoncardinal if he wanted to take over on sundays, and he has agreed to do it. you guys all know him as the resident braden looper watcher (he charts loop's starts for the pitch-by-pitch project). i'm really looking forward to having him in the front-page mix. . . . . and as long as i'm on the subject of sundays, i've neglected to promote SB Nation's stl rams blog, Turf Show Times. it's written by ryan van bibber of Cardinals Diaspora; the blog launched in the midst of last season and is growing. so if you're looking for some views / conversation about the rams' loss yesterday, start w/ TST.

here's something else y'all may care about: daric barton's getting called up to The Show.

that takes care of the preliminaries. to the baseball: the weekend showcased all the reasons why the cardinals trail by 3 games in this lousy division. it was all there: the defensive lapses, the uneven pitching, the one-hit-shy rallies, the questionable managing, the off-field turmoil, the players lost to injury (the latest is duncan, who might need surgery for a sports hernia). all the missteps and mishaps outweighed --- not by much, but by just enough --- the many good things the cardinals did over the weekend: another solid start by wainwright, a solid bullpen appearance from wells, a lotta production from pujols, two big-inning outbursts. all three losses could, and probably should, have been wins, but i can't argue that the outcomes were unjust. the cardinals earned all three defeats.

by the way, "questionable managing" does not include the decision to lift wells for ryan franklin in the 7th inning yesterday. that was an obvious thing to do; franklin just had an off-day. later in that inning, another question came up in the game thread: why was franklin allowed to pitch to tony clark with the score tied, two outs, and the lead runs on base? why not tyler johnson there, to gain the platoon advantage? a legitimate question, and it wasn't a second-guess; the poster made that suggestion before clark's at-bat started. but if tony had gone to johnson there, bob melvin would have countered with the right-handed conor jackson, who has been hot lately --- 4 hr in his last 32 at-bats, including a 3-run shot off looper on saturday night --- and has pounded left-handers throughout his brief big-league career. melvin also could have gone to jeff cirillo, who doesn't have much left but can still punish a lefty. so there was no platoon advantage to be gained; a move would have needlessly burned a key reliever in a tie game that still had, at a minimum, 7 outs to go. give clark credit; he fell behind in the count, fought off some good pitches, and kept himself up there until franklin made a mistake.

the entire series thumbed its nose at the concept of pythagorean records (and i'm a subscriber to the concept, by the way). arizona has been outscored by 29 runs this season and "should" be carrying a record of 69-75; they're 12 games better than that. the cardinals have been beaten by 62 runs this year and ought to be 12 games under, per pythagorus; they've topped their hypothetical win total by 10. . . . . a more outliery pair of september contenders you'll never find. a few weeks ago, chris jaffe of Hardball Times explained that the dbacks' ugly run differential is a mirage produced lagely by what he terms a "bipolar bullpen." when they're ahead or the games are close, the dbacks use their go-to relievers, who are all above league average for their respective roles; but when they fall behind, they go to a mop-up corps that is awful even by mop-up standards. hence the disparity between arizona's pythagorean w-l and their real-life one: "they can dependably win an awful lot of close ones," jaffe writes, "but when they fall behind badly they have virtually no chance of recovery."

the same thing applies to st louis, whose bullpen is as dichotomous as arizona's. the teams have some other key attributes in common, including below-average offense (the cards are 10th in the league in runs/game, the dbacks 13th) and error-prone defense (the cards are 3d in the league in errors, the dbacks 4th). the only meaningful difference between them is that arizona has gotten 30 starts out of its cy young pitcher, while st louis has gotten 1. otherwise, they're pretty much the same team. the dbacks look like they won't get blown out in october --- not with a stopper in the rotation, an airtight bullpen, a deep and versatile bench. you stick a healthy carpenter in there alongside wainwright, and wouldn't the cardinals --- despite everything else that has gone wrong for them --- have at least as good a chance in this year's postseason as they did last year?

ah, well --- they don't have carp. it was a discouraging weekend near the end of a discouraging season, and it's tempting to count the cards out. hell, i counted them out almost two months ago. but even now, it ain't quite over; not yet. they've got a game on the schedule today, and they'll show up and try to win; the outcome will have a lot to say about how much the games that come after matter. the cubs' starter has been struggling of late; 10 homers in his last 47 innings and an era of 4.94.

suck his brains out, you zombies.

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I just want to beat the hell out of the Cubs...
and push them out of the playoff picture. If it aint going to be us getting in, then it better be the Brewers.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 9:15 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good to see you around
Tripleplay

Yesterday you were talking crazy talk of giving up on this team....At least you'll have something to root for today and through this weekend, eh?

:-)

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 10, 2007 11:26 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've given up on the team.....
and hoping for them to make the playoffs. The only thing I have now is my disdain for the Cubs and the joy of watching them miss the playoffs.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 11:56 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ABC
Anybody But Cubs. if the beers make it, fine. i'll just be so much more depressed if i have to watch piniella and soriano and big z playing playoff baseball.

especially since they only have a couple of years to try - those contracts are going to kill them by 2010 or so.

The Cardinals are coming, tra la, tra la

by nycbirdo on Sep 10, 2007 11:28 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is today
a must win game?  In my mind, it is.

by Cardinal70 on Sep 10, 2007 9:35 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Absolute must win
unless they plan on sweeping the Cubs and Brewers after today.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 9:56 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory
The Cards had a chance to gain some ground this weekend and in the process lost 3 winnable games. Which leads to the obvious question: are the Cards done?

Sure it is easy to say they still have a shot with 5 games against the Cubs and 3 against the Brewers left on the schedule.

But with that said, I wonder how many more opportunities to move closer or take the lead can a poor team throw away and still have a realistic hope of winning the division. Such a team has a small margin of victory, even when completing against the like of the Brewers and Cubs. Can the Card:

Loose 5 out of 6 on the road against the Pirates and Nationals.

Split a 4 game set at home against the Pirates.

Have the likes of Matt Albers and Jojo Reyes dominate you.

Get swept in the desert with the teams top 2 starters going in the series.

Get swept in the desert after holding a lead in all 3 games.

Go 5-12 in road games in August.

The fact is that the Cards could suffer a few of these things and still win the NL Central.

But all of them? No.

by JMedwick on Sep 10, 2007 9:42 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That series
over the weekend was just a killer.  You're right, Lb, every single one of this Cardinal team's faults was put up on a platform with a giant, bright spotlight shining directly down.  The bullpen problems are the most worrisome, but I suppose that's what you get whenever the team is forced to lean so heavily on one facet of the team.  They've got some nice, extra arms now, but the guys who have been shouldering the brunt of the load all year are getting to the point that you have to expect some fatigue to take it's toll.  Throw in even a little strictly numerical regression, and you're in real trouble.  

I sure hope that handsome devil Joel has some sort of trick up his sleeve; I don't think I can stand to watch the Cards lose a fourth in a row.  If I were a southern woman, I would fan myself and collapse onto a nearby Davenport when confronted with watching this team any more.  However, given my sex and background, I'll stick with excessive game time drinking and occasional couch cushion directed tirades.  Huh.  What an odd tangent.  

If you don't ask me to dinner, I don't eat.

by the red baron on Sep 10, 2007 9:42 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Any one think the unfotunately timed.....
Ankiel scandal sucked what little life was left out of the team? Some times the media really sucks!
The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Sep 10, 2007 9:45 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NY Daily News did it's job...
cool down the Cards so we don't make the playoffs this year, and thus can't beat some Mets arse again.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 9:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It seems likely. When the author of
your feel-goodiest story of the season suddenly deposits a huge stinking crap in the kool-aid bowl, it might put a damper on the party.  And as the weaselly explanations and evasions that we all feared -- yet expected -- materialized, everyone involved realized that we're gonna have to live with this freakin' story for a Long. Long. Time.
"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 10, 2007 10:01 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

New Goal - finishing .500
"It's the time...of the season...when luck runs dry."  

You see, it's a joke! Revised a lyric from a song by THE Zombies and related it to OUR Zombies.    Ok, I'm sorry.  

Moving on...I am trying to make some sort of point about how I think we are pretty lucky to be in the position we're in, and it might be time to revise our goals for the season (one of many revisions throughout the year for sure).  I also agree that our Pythagorean record is likely to catch up with us, so I've decided that I'm rooting for .500. That would put us as of now at +8 better than our Pythagorean record, which would be quite a feat.

I'll take 81-81.  Secondary goal would be having a better record than the Cubs; maybe 81-81 will do that, who knows.  

"Well, no one's perfect. Only one guy was ever perfect, Jack, and they nailed him to a tree!"

by lightbulb on Sep 10, 2007 10:05 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Zombies
Lboros: love the zombie reference, made my day.

by brindled on Sep 10, 2007 10:24 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mine too
I laughed quite loudly.  

by cardsgirl95 on Sep 10, 2007 10:36 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

T-Shirts?
Perhaps if VEB does t-shirts (again?), it could include some kind of Zombified redbird...or "Suck his brains out, you zombies".  What a fitting testament to 2007 eh?

by brindled on Sep 10, 2007 10:38 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Get the Cubs this weekend
They need to win 4 out of 5 against the Cubs.
Sign Arod!

by kingalbert on Sep 10, 2007 10:31 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I predict 1-4
let us hope I am wrong!
The St Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champs!

by Zubin on Sep 10, 2007 10:40 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Duncan
I noticed in the Chris Duncan article he had been "feeling something" for 6 weeks, yet he didnt want anyone to know...or at least to be made public.  Can someone explain to me the purpose of hiding injuries like this?  To protect him at the plate? To prevent people from hitting balls to left field?  i dunno...

by brindled on Sep 10, 2007 10:41 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Per about.com
Third thing listed in the pain section is probably why he didn't want people to know.

http://orthopedics.about.com/od/sportsinjuries/a/hernia.htm

What are the symptoms of a sports hernia?
A sports hernia typically begins with a slow onset of aching pain in the lower abdominal region. Symptoms may include:

          o Pain in the lower abdomen
          o Pain in the groin
          o Pain in the testicle (in males)

Typically the symptoms are exacerbated with activities such as running, cutting, and bending forward. Patients may also have increased symptoms when coughing or sneezing. Sports hernias are most common in athletes that have to maintain a bent forward position, such as hockey players. However, sports hernias are also found in many other types of athletes such as football and soccer players.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 11:02 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i agree
with Ludwick and Skip it doesn't make a lot of sense to keep throwing a wounded duncan out there, especially when he has a sports hernia like the PD is reporting.  i guess i'm missing something.  i mean you love to see guys like him and rolen try to play through it, but at some point, you're hindering rather then helping
foot soldier in the memphis mafia.....

by CarolinaCardinal on Sep 10, 2007 11:03 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Run Differential
ramble

I don't subscribe all to well to that theory and heres why:

Blow outs/Mop ups.  When the white flag is raised on either side you rest your banged up vets, put in your experiments and just take her nice and easy at the ball park.  You leave your starters out there to get roasted to save the bullpen, when that fails you put in Aarron Miles and Scott Spiezio on the mound, thus tacking more worthless runs on the the differential (I know they both have a 0.00 era but still).  You don't put in Franklin/Izzy after Wells & Co just gave up 7 runs.  You put in Jiminez and Dove to add even more runs to the down side of the run differential.

Even if you leave your starters in tact they're not going to be playing 100% or close to it.

Runs simply change value and in the cardinals case it's extreme.  5 more runs when you're already down by 6 doesn't mean anything except a distorted pythagorean.

I just did a quick and dirty re-adjustment.  I simply erased all the blowouts (win or loss of 6 runs or more) and came up with a closer to record W/L.

523 Runs Scored vs 540 Runs Allowed which is a 68-72 record.  

I've been meaning to do a Blowout-Free Pythagorean but been procrastinating, I'll do it tomorrow ;)

It'd be something where you only get credited/debited runs past a certain point in a game (i.e. if you lose 12 - 0 then it should only count as a 5 - 0 loss or such)

You could even make it more personal by team and game.  I.E.  After Maroth gave up 4 runs in the first 1/3 inning.  The bullpen was fried so he left Maroth in there to give up 4 more then normally he'd be pulled. Tony then threw in all his bullpen experiments. they also got blown out giving up 5 more runs, thus a white flag total of say X.  If the game was "ran" at 100% the entire way Maroth would have been pulled earlier, more reliable Relievers would have been put in, their average would be Y.  

Adjusted Run Differential would now be X - Y.  

Same can be applied for hitting too.  Take your average runs generated prorated for the rest of the game and compare that with the scrubs you replaced them with.

by rocKStark5 on Sep 10, 2007 12:08 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The issue being
ALL teams have blowout games where they put the scrubs in.
Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Sep 10, 2007 1:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is getting insane
I'm sure other teams have dealt with this as well but MAN.

Kinney
Hancock
Carp
Rolen
Spezio
Encarnacion
Duncan

Mulder we already knew about.  We knew Edmonds was gonna happen.

by sdrone on Sep 10, 2007 12:10 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I keep forgetting about kinney...
but the lost-for-the-season DL list also includes Preston Wilson, Adam Kennedy, and J-Rod (though he got injured in Memphis, he's still unable to fill in), and almost every other man on the team has spent time on the DL this season.  It really is unbelievable.
"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 10, 2007 12:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow
So, off the top of my head, the opening day starters at;

2nd (Kennedy)
3rd (Rolen)
Left (Duncan)
Right (Wilson)
Starting Pitcher (Carpenter)

Have all been lost for the year?

by Robb on Sep 10, 2007 12:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Taguchi
I agree but just as an FYI Taguchi was our opening day LF.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2007_lu.shtml

104 different lineups, and a 127 different orders. The only consistent thing this season was inconsistency.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 1:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow
I even forgot about Kennedy, another starter.  

by sdrone on Sep 10, 2007 2:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Other DL participants
Yadi & Eckstein (i think), have both spent time on the DL as well.
Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 10, 2007 1:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pujols and Edmonds
were great this weekend and we still didn't win a damn game.  We are in big trouble, the kind of which that could see this team finish 7 games out of 1st place and nowhere near .500.

We've got a 6 man rotation and only 2 pitchers who seem to be able to pitch: Wainwright and Suppan 2.0

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 1:16 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

have to agree
I think the Cards played as hard as they could this weekend...and they just don't have the horses for the race. I'm not one to give up on any Cards team, especially after seeing what happened last year...but my god...look at the injuries that they have indured this season....not to mention the Pitching. I admire the tenacity of the team but I'll be very surprised if they are less than 4-5 games back by next week.  

by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2007 1:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

rotation question
since we have like 8 guys that can start (really only 3 that we feel good about), I don't see why larussa doesn't consider keeping the 5 man rotation running Waino, Looper, Piniero out every fifth day, use Mulder as a fourth starter and just rotate Reyes, Wells, Wellemeyer and Thompson as starters/long relief for the 5th spot or if Mulder falters.  Anything to keep Wainwright going every fifth day
foot soldier in the memphis mafia.....

by CarolinaCardinal on Sep 10, 2007 1:34 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Think he might
I think that might be coming to pass as we speak.

Pineiro, Mulder, Bullpen (probably Maroth), Wainwright, Looper is our current announced order.  It is easy to just start that over again especially if Maroth is effective, that would give us Looper, Pineiro, Mulder and Maroth against Chicago this weekend.  Though the way Wells pitched yesterday he may have earned his spot back again at least for the next "bullpen" start.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 1:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i think
the worry is that wainer and looper are gonna have tired arms (if) we can make it to the postseason
"How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?"- Leroy Satchel Paige

http://www.rankmytattoos.com/Illinois/Canton/15002.html

by Supergus on Sep 10, 2007 1:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the worry
is actually
  • we make the play-offs
  • suffer more injuries getting there
  • showcase our AAA roster in prime-time

by Hinkster on Sep 10, 2007 1:51 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

actually
would be pretty funny now that I think about it....especially if the Cubs are at home

by Hinkster on Sep 10, 2007 1:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Question
Which pitcher out of your current patchwork (Wells, Pinero, Maroth,Thompson, Looper)do you guys feel has the best shot of sticking around for the next few years?

I havent seen any of these guys pitch expect for Looper who seems to dominate the cubs, but for the next 2-3 years i see Wainwright, Carpenter, Mulder (maybe not?), i dont know your farm system too well so maybe one of your prospects is near major league ready.

by dylanj on Sep 10, 2007 2:06 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lets see
I forsee an opening day rotation of:

Mulder
Wainwright
Looper
Pineiro
FA

I assume we pick up Pineiro's option because if he can pitch even half way as decently has he has so far then he is worth the 8M in this market, and unless we get a steller deal for Loop then he is a steal for next year as well.  Franklin could replace Looper if he is dealt though.

Carp will come back and possibly replace one of them but you have to plan on not having carp at all or you won't need him when he does come back.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 2:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i hate to say this...
but i think wells will be back next year, ladunc does not want to admit defeat on the reclamation project (headcase) that is kip wells...
"How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?"- Leroy Satchel Paige

http://www.rankmytattoos.com/Illinois/Canton/15002.html

by Supergus on Sep 10, 2007 2:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If so
If that happens then I expect Pineiro or Looper to be traded.  We can't have Wells fill that FA slot but I personally really like Wells and would like to see him succeed but I would prefer to see Reyes succeed and if we have to use someone other then the four I listed I want Reyes first Wells second.  Wells was great when he was on and trash every other time.  But I think the loss of Carpenter might have affected him too, he took on too much responsibility at that time and then rattled off a few bad starts and a 7 game losing streak after his first win of the season.  But was we have all said the problem with Wells and for the most part Reyes is between their ears.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 2:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cubs Rotation
Looks like the Cubs are probably changing their rotation to give Z a start in the 4 game series this weekend, so Z, Marshall-Lilly and Marquis are how it would line up.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 2:14 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually
word is you will face Kevin Hart who Lou has taken a shine to instead of Marshall

by dylanj on Sep 10, 2007 2:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nope
Cubs moving up Trachsel to pitch on 3 days rest to push Z back for Friday.

by Big Red on Sep 10, 2007 4:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

pitchers
Cardinals need to assume Carp will not pitch next year at all.  I wonder if they can make a Trade for a decent pitcher.  IE a pitcher above "retred" status.  We need a somewhat prooven pitcher not a project.  I wounder what it would take to get Javier Vasquez from the White Sox.  They were down on him for some reason, but I think he is good.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 10, 2007 2:17 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They were down on him
because he's been blowing up games all the time after being staked to leads.

At this point, the Sox will trade anyone.  But their asking prices are high.  I doubt we have anything they'd want.  Rasmus, maybe.

by sdrone on Sep 10, 2007 2:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

speaking of,
rasmus, if duncan is out for the season, will they be able to bring up another player? maybe we can see rasmus??
"How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?"- Leroy Satchel Paige

http://www.rankmytattoos.com/Illinois/Canton/15002.html

by Supergus on Sep 10, 2007 2:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hopefully not
First off Dunc would have to be placed on the 60 day DL you have more chance of seeing someone currently on the 40 man or more of Schumaker.  But Rasmus needs to stay where he is, in the playoffs then get ready for AFL games.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 2:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Vazquez
He has 28 starts with a 3.98 ERA in the AL which is pretty darn good.  When I watched Sox games earlier this year it seemed as if he picted 5 scoreless innings but his team never scored.  Then he would end up giving up about 3 runs in the 6th inning.

I guess it is all about preception for each fan base.  With his stats he would be our #2 pitcher for sure.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 10, 2007 2:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'd love Vasquez
but not for the price of Rasmus. I'd be willing to give up Reyes and Bryan Anderson for him though.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 2:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hah...
that just made me think, they have a centerfielder name Brian Anderson. Imagine if the two played on the same team in the same game.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 2:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

TRUE
 the sox seem to ask for a lot trade wise.  I would not make the trade.  Rasmus has MLB potential.

We need a solid pitcher for next year.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 10, 2007 2:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Keep in mind
the Sox traded Chris Young to Ariz. for Vazquez and haven't had a centerfielder since.  They'd probably start and end their conversation with Rasmus.  That is until they re-sign Rowand this offseason, then they might want a catcher to replace A.J. eventually.

by Big Red on Sep 10, 2007 4:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

AWESOME LINEUPS!
Ryan 5
Taguchi 7
Pujols 3
Ankiel 9
Molina 2
Edmonds 8
Miles 4
Pineiro 1
Eckstein 6

Source http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=270910116

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 2:25 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

gameday
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/y2007/gd.html?2007_09_10_slnmlb_chnmlb_1&brand=mlb

Cubs:
Soriano 7
Theriot 6
Lee 3
Floyd 9
ARam 5
DeRosa 4
Jones 8
Kendall 2
Lilly 1

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 2:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lineup/Ludwick
How is Ludwick?  I assume he is out due to being hit on the hand by the pitch in the 9th inning yesterday?

Does So hit Lilly well?

by ICbirdfan on Sep 10, 2007 2:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thank the maker
Tony finally decided to put the fastest guy on the team in the leadoff spot.  Now, if we could just convince So to NOT swing when Ryan is stealing, he might actually get credit for a stolen base.

I love Yadi but why is he patting 5th and Edmonds 6th?  I know Lilly is a lefty and all but Molina is a DP waiting to happen.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 2:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Luckily I missed this nightmarish weekend...
For the sake of the integrity of the playoffs, it's very important that a team starting Branyan, Ryan, Cairo, Stinnett, Ludwick, Taguchi, and Schumaker not make it to October.

This has to be the worst lineup in baseball this year.

Ease LaDunketty out gently, thank him profusely, and... Hire Antonetti!!!

by guayzimi on Sep 10, 2007 2:29 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

TV
BTW I just noticed the game today will NOT be televised by the Cards.  According to BCB WGN will be showing the game, thus I hope you have WGN if you are at home for this one.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 2:36 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's on
FSNMW
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 10, 2007 2:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Weird
Nowhere can I see it listed as being on FSN, I trust you if you are sitting in front of the TV about to watch it but no website has it listed.....Oh wait just checked the FSN website (smart of me not to check that before huh?) and it is listed.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 2:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

for whatever reason it's not listed on the
offcial site.

but according to the broadcast yesterday, and this, the game will be on FSN.

good thing. i didn't want to have to listen to the shit heap that is WGN.

by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 10, 2007 3:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It will be on Extra Innings
on Cable. Which, is odd if it is on WGN since WGN is NEVER on Extra Innings.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 2:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow, it sure is dead in here
I'm off to watch the game in the other room.  

Just to bring this up: In 1973 on this date, the St. Louis Cardinals stood atop the NL East with a 72-71 record.  The New York Mets, in 4th place, were 69-74 (3 games back).

The Mets finished the season at 82-79, a 13-5 record to finish out the string.  The Cardinals came in at 81-81 (9-10) to finish 1.5 games back.

Here's to the Cardinals avenging that letdown!

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 3:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bah
On another day, Ryan's, Taguchi's, and Pujols' balls all end up in the basket. Stupid Wrigley.

by mojowo11 on Sep 10, 2007 3:28 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wind
Weather: 58 degrees, cloudy.
Wind: 9 mph, In from RF.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 3:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah
Particularly Pujols', which was hit to the base of the wall in right. Oh well.

Ankiel K's on the high heater.

by mojowo11 on Sep 10, 2007 3:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Did Ankiel get booed?
by the Wrigley unfaithful?

Also, I hate the NY Daily News. They've completely effed him over. I just hope he can come back okay next season.

- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 3:31 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

huge boo
nice ringing chorus of boos

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 3:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How many times
has Albert been stranded at 3rd over the last few days?...it seems like a lot!

by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2007 3:31 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He has hit 4 balls in the last 4 games
to Right centerfield that all should have gotten over the wall.

Those 4 balls get over the wall and we are going for our 5th win in a row.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 3:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so.....
either his leg is bothering him to the point of taking away some distance on his drives....or the field conditions prevented them from going out of the park....bit of both I'm sure.

by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2007 3:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree
Don't blame the park because a ball was not a HR.  Its a deep CF but not unreasonably so, much like our old bush in the 80s.

by DriverZn on Sep 10, 2007 3:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

H-G-H
Wrigley is all class.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 3:32 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They seriously chanted that?
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 3:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yup
and the WGN field mics had it blaring as usual.  Stupid WGN!
Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 10, 2007 3:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

First televised game that I've seen,
since Piniero was acquired.  He looks good, but that number looks wierd on his back. :(
Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 10, 2007 3:34 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Balls jumping
If the wind changes we could see a real power showing, lots of balls being hit hard right now.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 3:38 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think that bat was corked!
NYDN should investigate that.

j/k

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 10, 2007 3:38 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice hitting by Floyd
Took a tough pitch there and dumped it over the infield. Just good hitting there.

by mojowo11 on Sep 10, 2007 3:39 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Molina has changed his gear
Yadi is wearing an old-style mask and different chest protector.  It appears he is actually wearing Gary Bennetts gear.  I wonder if that ball cracked his helmet in Phoenix.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 3:43 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes
I believe it was during Saturday's game that I heard Mike and John talking about Yadi having to order a new helmet and it had to be specially ordered.  You'd think they'd have a back up, wouldn't you?  But maybe it's back in STL, not on the road.

by cardsgirlinAR on Sep 10, 2007 4:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yay
Edmonds stays barely ahead of Ankiel in HR total.

by mojowo11 on Sep 10, 2007 3:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gameday....
says it was out on the street?...yeah?

by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2007 3:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nope
5 Rows deep.

STUPID MILES!!

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 3:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

GameDay
Watching that makes it sound aggressive.  Was it just stupidity?

by Cardinal70 on Sep 10, 2007 3:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Atta Boy Jimmy!
nice little poke there.  

Looks like the ball is carrying out to left.  We need to get our boys to start pulling the ball for righties, and pushing the ball for lefties.

C'mon you Redbirds!

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 10, 2007 3:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

All right, Jimmy!
Mike and John mock the Cubs fan for throwing "the ball" back.

by liam on Sep 10, 2007 3:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

MILES
SHOULD HE HAVE WENT?  LISTENING ON THE RADIO

by ICbirdfan on Sep 10, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Floyd bobbled the ball and it got away from him
DeRosa made a heads up play, backing up Floyd.  I wouldve tried for it; why not?
Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 10, 2007 3:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eh
Maybe not an awful gamble, especially with the pitcher on deck. Still, though, one can argue that any time the runner gets thrown out he probably shouldn't have gone.

by mojowo11 on Sep 10, 2007 3:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Same
but it didn't sound deep enough, we need runners, yeah a double would have been nice but come on.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 3:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He got stuck sliding
out by an inch.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 3:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

very forgivable
aggressive baserunning w/ the pitcher on deck - it took a perfect throw.

by _pistol_ on Sep 10, 2007 3:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I will not cry
if Miles is not on the 2008 roster.  

by RedbirdRay on Sep 10, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'd take him as a bench player...
any day of the week. Not a starter though.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 3:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Floyd
Floyd misjudged the ball, last minute correction but bobbled the ball, DeRosa picked it up and fired to the bag, Miles was out on what Mike and John called very close.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 3:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah
Floyd displayed his inability to move faster than 4 MPH and dropped a routine fly ball. It squirted away, but DeRosa was hustling and threw Miles out by the narrowest of margins at second.

by mojowo11 on Sep 10, 2007 3:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Throw up a zero Joel
The lineup is set up for us next inning to hang a 3 spot.  Let's shut 'em down this inning.

As I say this, he gets squeezed.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Edmonds screws with the Wrigley drunks
looks up like it is a HR and then just lets it drop in over his shoulder into his glove.

Love it.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 3:55 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Awesome
Looking forward to the replay tonight. Should've recorded this one... it stands to be a pivotal, memorable game.

by liam on Sep 10, 2007 3:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Argh
Now I really wish my dorm had WGN.

by hannah_in_va on Sep 10, 2007 3:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gameday showed that over the wall
Amazing catch or just bad placement by gameday. You can't go over the wall with the fencing at Wrigley, can you?
.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 10, 2007 3:57 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

bad placement
wasnt even on the warning track
Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 10, 2007 4:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Again...gameday...
had that one IN the bleachers!...agh!...

by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2007 3:57 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Broken bats
Ok, what is with bats this season?  It just seems like we have seen way more the I had ever seen before.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 4:00 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maple
more power, lighter weight, very fragile.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 4:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Hungarian was talking...
about that last night during the Dbacks game...he said it's because of the MAPLE bats that players are using now...they explode out there...not like the ASH ones of old..

by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2007 4:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Taguchi
He's scalded the ball to left twice. Get down, ball!

by mojowo11 on Sep 10, 2007 4:01 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What is with Soriano's little skip on fly balls?
Is he picking daisies, riding rainbows and chasing unicorns?
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 4:02 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's nice
to have Yadi back behind the plate.

by _pistol_ on Sep 10, 2007 4:05 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

3 steps shy
just the the left of the 'fall back' area.

Why can't Piniero get a call on the corner?

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 4:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At Wrigley
The plate changed dimensions between the top and bottom of each inning.
Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 10, 2007 4:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Soriano
Has 24 homers, but only 56 RBIs.  Why is he leading off again?

by saladdays on Sep 10, 2007 4:06 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Stick him anywhere else in the lineup ...
and he's a .180 hitter. So say the numbers.

Plus, he doesn't want to.

by Urban Pawnee on Sep 10, 2007 4:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If there was ever a guy who was a candidate
for HGH, it is Soriano.  He went from being a guy who had to go to Japan to play to being a 40-40 guy.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 4:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What a baby
How many ABs does he actually have other than leadoff?

by saladdays on Sep 10, 2007 4:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

soriano
in 31PA in 3rd .179/.258/.286
in 8 PA in 5th .000/.000/.000
in 1 PA in 8th he has a double

in 487 PA leading off .306/.341/.550

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 4:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not a huge sample size
I still think he should bat lower.  I mean, he whined about playing OF with the Nats, but eventually backed down.

by saladdays on Sep 10, 2007 4:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The last time he batted in someplace
other than leadoff was a stretch of games when he hit 5th.  He went 0 for like 25.

by Big Red on Sep 10, 2007 4:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Same reason Duncan batted 2nd
for most of last year.

Manager=nuts.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 4:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Manager = Nuts
That nutty manager put another trophy on the wall last year ;)
Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 10, 2007 4:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pitchers
3SO 2H Pineiro
2SO 3H Lilly
0 BB both
1HR Lilly
Pitches-strikes: Pineiro 40-26, Lilly 41-29.
Ground outs-fly outs: Pineiro 1-5, Lilly 2-4.
Batters faced: Pineiro 11, Lilly 11.

Pretty even game.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 4:09 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I despise you New York Daily News
you ruined our Rick :/
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 4:14 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

StL sports cursed?
Orlando Pace is done for the season.  Rams starting out like the cards losing a big player in the first game.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 4:16 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not to be negative...
But didn't we just say the other "players who can't perform under the pressure of fans don't have the mental fortitude to be professional athletes"?  I know we were talking about Zambrano and Wells, but...

I hope Ankiel proves us wrong.  Go get 'em Roy Hobbs!

"...but If I can do some damage and help my team win, I'm going to stay in there" -Albert

by BigMOman on Sep 10, 2007 4:17 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Uh....
no one has ever said Rick has any sort of mental fortitude, given his track record.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 4:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Derrek Lee...
now that is juicer if i've ever seen one. If you honestly tell me you dont think he was juicing in 2005, you're lying.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 4:20 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cmon dude
dont go brandying about steroid accusations or suspicions. it does nothing.

by longhornscardinals on Sep 10, 2007 4:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Damn
damn home runs, at least they were solo shots but damn that sucks

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ruh roh
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Sep 10, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Game Over.
2 HRs in the 4th inning.

Pineiro is done, not fooling anyone anymore.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol.........
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 4:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

4 runs in
still laughing?
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 4:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yep...
your reactions are hilarious.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 4:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This coming from a guy who blames a
newspaper for the season going down the tubes.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 4:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No
I blamed the paper for Rick Ankiel's stability for going down the tubes. It's okay, it's easier for you to make things up.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 4:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rick was the one who took the stuff
the newspaper didn't inject him.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 4:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes I do
You act as though you expected the team to win.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 4:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

were they to left field as well?
"...but If I can do some damage and help my team win, I'm going to stay in there" -Albert

by BigMOman on Sep 10, 2007 4:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes
Ball is flying to left, not so much to right

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 4:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just a FYI
the era of Jo-el getting away with 'loud outs' is officially over.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 10, 2007 4:22 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thank god Carpenter has never given up 2 hr's
in an inning, or Johan Santana.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Sep 10, 2007 4:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is this some sort of defense of Pineiro?
Every ball in this inning was absolutely hammered....doesn't matter what park you're playing in...

Anyone who has watched Pineiro's starts has noticed that he allows a lot of hard hit balls...and for some reasons, those balls were finding gloves, which I thought was making it seem like he was 'really effective', when he was actually really shaky.

by cardsfaninmass on Sep 10, 2007 4:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Come on Cards
beat someone will ya.

Three loses to the Dbacks and losing to the Cubs.  Ya gotta help my Rocks.

BTW:  There is no misery that is too bad for a Cub fan.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Sep 10, 2007 4:25 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cavazos
Tony realizes this game is over.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 4:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WTF is going on?
is he tipping or something?

by jeff abs on Sep 10, 2007 4:29 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he was DFAd in the middle of the season
by a team with actual pitching. that's the problem.

by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 10, 2007 4:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nope...
just another reclaim project who is not making it happen.

by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2007 4:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this may do it.
i just had a funny feeling today that pineiro would crash back down to earth. it has happened.

and the cardinals season is slipping away. . .

by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 10, 2007 4:29 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What happened?
I can't beleive that inning just blew up like that, well lets hope we have our big 5th inning today.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 4:29 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pitching
Me thinks the pitching has hit a wall!

by ICbirdfan on Sep 10, 2007 4:30 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can Cavazos
have a goofier looking Gameday picture?

by saladdays on Sep 10, 2007 4:30 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hate the Cubs and Chicago
-their fans
-their dump of a city
-their lousy weather

Boston, Chicago and Philly are the worst places in america.

by PinchHitLancePainter on Sep 10, 2007 4:31 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That is one bad Gameday picture
looks like the puppy WonderBrad kicked

by hannah_in_va on Sep 10, 2007 4:31 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Silver linings
At least that made me laugh.  The game's not invoking cheer.

by Cardinal70 on Sep 10, 2007 4:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Piniero is beginning to look
as bad as he looked when we first got him. As good as the pitching has been since the ASB, it's starting to revert to form. Oh well, it made most of the summer worth watching...

Now if we can have a season without everyone getting hurt next year, that's be fun.

by lawman3842 on Sep 10, 2007 4:32 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

comebacks
I went to the game where we were down 6-0 to the Brewers and came back to win.  Our season never looked more dismal than it did in that third inning, down 6-0, 8 games out, ready to be 9 games out.  I will never ever count this team out after seeing that effort.  Come on boys, you can do it!
"...but If I can do some damage and help my team win, I'm going to stay in there" -Albert

by BigMOman on Sep 10, 2007 4:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

when will they cancel the makup game
...with the mets on the 27th? I doubt it will be necessary.

by hex706f726368 on Sep 10, 2007 4:37 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They are just taking huge rips now
up 5, they know they can swing for the fences.

Cavazos doesn't belong on the roster but what else are you going to do?  Tony used Thompson for only 2 innings yesterday and fried the pen.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 4:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As tough
as people are on TLR in here, I have to think that there's no way we'd even be in the hunt without him.

Sure, I second guess and question his moves sometimes, too. Show me a knowledgable fan of any club who never has occasion to do the same.

But I defy anyone to show me a manager who has been able to pull off this much with this little. Injuries to Rolen, Eckstein, Pujols, Edmonds, Duncan, Molina, Encarnacion, Wilson, Spezio, Carpenter, and the death of Hancock. That's pretty ridiculous.

I'd wager that the Cubs would be smelling the Pirates' asses if Ramirez was ineffective due to shoulder problems and eventually shut down, Zambrano was on the DL for the whole year, Howry'd been killed in an accident, and Kendall, Lee, DeRosa, Jones, and Floyd had all been injured.

Anyway, I'm rambling. My point is that the boys have done well to get this far this year, with all of the problems they've had.

by lawman3842 on Sep 10, 2007 4:38 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pitchers
There are two starting pitchers returning who I have faith in.
  1. Wainwright
  2. Looper

4.
5.

I think of Looper as a 4th or 5th starter.  If he is a 5th starter next year our team looks good.  Other wise the Cardinals need a lot of starting pitching help.

I have about a 15% faith in Mulder at this point.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 10, 2007 4:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice Job AP
at least the D didn't fall asleep.  Now do you pinch hit for Cavazos? I would.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 4:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Got to
You can't afford to give away any outs now, I don't think, especially at the beginning of an inning.

by Cardinal70 on Sep 10, 2007 4:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Idiot
Thought he was leading off the inning.  Agreed with below, with two outs, leave him out there.

by Cardinal70 on Sep 10, 2007 4:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why pinch hit for Cav?
Is it just so we can burn up the arms in our pen some more?  I say leave him in there, especially if he is the last out.
Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 10, 2007 4:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's done a lot...
He's had to work with one of the worst pitching staffs I've ever seen for a Cardinals team in my lifetime...injuries out the ass...and I've not even got to Hancock and Juan....
I know he is easy to dislike and question...but he's brought pretty damn good baseball to St.Louis in the time he's been running things..

by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2007 4:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In that case...
I don't think he has done anything special.  The Birds are under .500 in the worst division in baseball.  I know the team is snakebitten, but I don't thing this season, at least thusfar, is an example of a great job of managing.  Lets not forget that the first headache the team had to deal with was TLR's DUI.

by bdub78 on Sep 10, 2007 4:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow...
I think that is some harsh way of looking at things...but you are entitled to your opinion bro...I just happen to disagree with you.

by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2007 4:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

admittedly...
I have always been pretty anti-TLR.  The more everyone points out how shitty things have been, the more I think I may be wrong about TLR this season.

But man, he pisses me off with about 2 goofy decisions per series.

Anyways, hopefully he can prove me wrong and get the Birds into the post-season.

by bdub78 on Sep 10, 2007 4:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In some talking head circles ...
they were getting ready to anoint this as Tony's BEST SEASON EVER (under extremely trying circumstances, admittedly) as the Cards were staggering toward the Division leaders like Zombies. (sorry, can't get lboros literary masterpiece out of my head).

There's something to that, but it's all turning to ashes on a gray afternoon at Wrigley.

by Urban Pawnee on Sep 10, 2007 5:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This season?
He had shit to work with, yes he has some questionable calls but he has somehow pull wins out of his ass

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 4:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would argue that the pitching
Is in fact his doing.  We should have been using Reyes last year rather than Ponson.  We would have known what we had.  This year running Maroth out there in place of Thompson is criminal.  

On offense TLRs insistenct on having Vets mean we have a team filled with older and injury prone players.  Miles, Kennedy, and Cairo are replacement level at best.  Yet they got lots of playing time.  

Would we still be in 3rd if we had reconized that Kennedy didn't still have it and started playing Ryan a lot earlier?  Every game that Miles or Cairo starts is a game TLR has put us at a disadvantage.

by DriverZn on Sep 10, 2007 4:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

kennedy not historically replacement level
just a really, really bad year.

cairo has not had "a lot" of playing time.

by willievinceterry on Sep 10, 2007 5:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

also
"Would we still be in 3rd if we had reconized that Kennedy didn't still have it and started playing Ryan a lot earlier?  Every game that Miles or Cairo starts is a game TLR has put us at a disadvantage."

Probably, yes. Miles has not put the team at a disadvantage. His hitting numbers are actually better than plenty of other middle infielders. Cairo -- he's there out of dire necessity. Kennedy had a track record of success; Ryan's success was fairly unexpected. It was not up to TLR to "DFA" Kennedy just so he could play Miles. The guy has a 3-year deal and was an unexpected major bust -- NOT TLR's fault.

by willievinceterry on Sep 10, 2007 5:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

also
"Would we still be in 3rd if we had reconized that Kennedy didn't still have it and started playing Ryan a lot earlier?  Every game that Miles or Cairo starts is a game TLR has put us at a disadvantage."

Probably, yes. Miles has not put the team at a disadvantage. His hitting numbers are actually better than plenty of other middle infielders. Cairo -- he's there out of dire necessity. Kennedy had a track record of success; Ryan's success was fairly unexpected. It was not up to TLR to "DFA" Kennedy just so he could play Ryan. The guy has a 3-year deal and was an unexpected major bust -- NOT TLR's fault.

by willievinceterry on Sep 10, 2007 5:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

below .500
Look at teams that havent had the injuries/problems/deaths that weve had.  They arent even smelling what were stepping in.  Not even close.  I think this team has done a remarkable job thus far.  Theres still time.
Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 10, 2007 4:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

TLR
I think TLR has done a nice job as far as any of us outside the clubhouse can see.  Based on all the things that happend to this team, they could have given up months ago but have not.  I give the manager and players credit for that.  I do beleive that Larussa's and Duncan's constant preperation has shown the team that the coaches have not given up.  It must provide some spark in the team.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 10, 2007 4:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice way to make up those runs guys
1 pitch 1 out, then 3 pitch strike out...

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 4:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good lord...
How many hits are we going to give up today?

by bdub78 on Sep 10, 2007 4:52 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

walks.....
they will always come back to haunt you ...one way or another..

by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2007 4:53 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What is DeRosa crying about?
He's got an elbow guard on already.  
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 4:54 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No one warming up
Tony realizes that this one is lost.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 4:54 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The only bright side...
is that I didn't ditch the afternoon at work to watch this beatdown.

by bdub78 on Sep 10, 2007 4:55 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sick feeling
I have a sick feeling in my stomach watching this game on mlb gamecast.   It is similar to when I was 9 and got called into the principle's office.  I knew something bad is going to happen (just like with every Cardinal pitcher's pitch), but I'm not exactly sure how bad it is going to be (single, double, 3B, HR).

by riescher on Sep 10, 2007 5:04 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hadn't thought of it...
but that is exactly how I felt watching them all weekend long.

by bdub78 on Sep 10, 2007 5:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Another Drubbing.....
We just ain't got no pitch'in boys....that is pretty well the problem in a nutshell to me.  Not enough to win the Central...much less anything beyond that. I give them credit for playing hard and giving it their best...but I don't think this club is going anywhere but home..and soon.

by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2007 5:07 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gotta get 4 runs this inning
It's doable.  Just gotta start finding some green.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 5:07 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So's about to get the rally going
Rally squirrel time!
.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 10, 2007 5:07 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Booya!
What can I say. I felt it. My beard tingled.

In all fairness, Eck started the rally. But So drove it home.

.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 10, 2007 5:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Classy Cub fans
are cheering the fact that Lily just threw at So's head!  

Wow, class just oozes from the bleachers.

Way to make him pay So!

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Sep 10, 2007 5:09 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fuck you Ted Lilly
put that in your pipe.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 5:09 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the so man!
"How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?"- Leroy Satchel Paige

http://www.rankmytattoos.com/Illinois/Canton/15002.html

by Supergus on Sep 10, 2007 5:09 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

SOOOO!!
LILLY YOU BITCH!!!!

by Big Red on Sep 10, 2007 5:10 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh my
So almost takes one to his dome and the fans cheer...nice...havent we had enough?!? HAHAHA SOOOO
2 run homer!!

by brindled on Sep 10, 2007 5:10 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

poor albert's
never going to get to 100 RBI's if the guys we put in the 2 spot keep driving in all the runs...
"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 10, 2007 5:11 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The only time I've seen him play in person
was in Springfield last year. He struck out swinging three times. Lets hope he's reached his weekly quota today.
.500, there you are!

by effin fisk on Sep 10, 2007 5:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rain is coming
too little, too late.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 5:17 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ryan out
Ryan is 0-3 today but is Cairo really better? well I guess it was him or Ankiel to come out.

by StLHugo on Sep 10, 2007 5:17 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are we stalling?
Cause the rain ain't gonna help us in this one.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 5:19 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It ain't gonna rain
at least not enough to make any type of difference.

by Big Red on Sep 10, 2007 5:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jimenez and Cavazos
Make me long for Estaban Yan!!! LOL

by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2007 5:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lou Pinella Manager of the Year?
Give me $400 M and I bet I could get a team to .500
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 5:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

when did jiminez become a viable bullpen
option?  Suddenly he seems to have figured it out.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 5:25 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Perhaps he just needed some seasoning
I think that would be one of my frist questions were I to meet Dyar Miller (if this keeps up)

by Valatan on Sep 10, 2007 5:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This isn't the end of the world
as long as Milwaukee loses tonight.  3 games out with 3 (and 4) games left against the other 2 teams isn't the 'final nail' but it certainly makes it an extremely unlikely.

Perhaps the Cardinals can pull some magic out of their arses but if they are going to do it, the 8th would be the time with Pujols potentially up with RBI opportunities.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 5:34 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Need to.....
get through the BOTTOM of the 7th first...and a lead off double isn't going to help!

by Timbo02 on Sep 10, 2007 5:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nothing spells 'rally' like
Cairo
Eckstein
Branyan
Pujols
Ankiel
Molina
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 5:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hardcore is hittin on all 8.....
The Legend had it goin on in the the game thread, I'm in stitches reading thru the thread the following morning (in spite of the pain left over from the actual game). HCL has me cracking up.....the Soriano "outfield skip" post is still killin' me.

....and damn I hate Chit-caw-go. Can you imagine any one of the Cubs players ever coming out and saying they dont condone or agree with the Chi-fans behavior?

Its time to play like a DFAed infield oughtta!!

by cardschinmusic on Sep 11, 2007 4:35 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well..
it looks like little tony'll get the win if the cardinals rally...

by Valatan on Sep 10, 2007 5:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

his line against us this year:
(including today)

.368/.454/.590

By not allowing Hendry to trade Jones to FLA, Selig probably won the NL central for the Cubs...

"and we're grasping at rainbows, holding on till the end..."

by SleepyCA on Sep 10, 2007 5:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lilly done
Get a DP and let's get that rally going.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 5:42 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Umm...
This team is so banged up.  Looks like I'm rooting for those miserable Pirates tonight.  Yuck.

by champion on Sep 10, 2007 5:43 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yay!
Passed ball!
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 5:44 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HOW MUCH do we pay these guys????
Sooner or later it all comes down to faith. . . THEN performance.

by faninexile on Sep 10, 2007 5:44 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maroth throwing in the pen now???
Sooner or later it all comes down to faith. . . THEN performance.

by faninexile on Sep 10, 2007 5:47 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yulp
Tony realizes that this game is meaningless at this point.  He wants to save the pen for the 7 game winning streak he has already laid out against the Reds and then the Cubs at home.

Or something like that.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 5:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know, with all of these maple bats
breaking. . .

MLB players and umpires are soon going to be wearing NHL Goalie equipment!!!!

Sooner or later it all comes down to faith. . . THEN performance.

by faninexile on Sep 10, 2007 5:49 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They should just ban them
like they banned bats with heavy lamenation on them.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 10, 2007 5:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lamentation
"like they banned bats with heavy lamenation on them."

Ha, when I first read this, I read it as "lamentation", which is highly appropriate for today and perhaps the season.

by dralexp on Sep 10, 2007 5:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Isn't
there some crazy ash shortage because of a bug that's killing ash trees?  

Where will all the baseball bats come from if ash trees disappear?

by spants on Sep 10, 2007 8:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, that disaster is over.
Yay new disaster.  Come on, six run inning.  

by Valatan on Sep 10, 2007 5:50 PM EDT reply reply actions actions