A-Rod in Cardinal Red?

by cardzfan24 on Aug 8, 2007 2:53 PM EDT

A great look at the Cardinals organization from the Sports Review Magazine online, this link is courtesy of Deadspin...

http://sportsreviewmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1374

This article details some steps the Cardinals can take to clear a ton of payroll and sign some big name players in the process. This guy has some good ideas and has a firm grasp of the Cardinal organization. A lot of these moves have been promoted by the community here, (like the Juan salary dump) yet I truly feel these things literally have zero chance of happening. It is almost as if the Cardinals are too stubborn to try anything unique or out of the ordinary for fear of it blowing up or being ridiculed.

Using this idea in the article as a basis...what can we do as an organization to improve quickly and to sustain that excellence? I truly believe we can be a winning team again by the time Rasmus and the crew down there in AA - AAA mature if we can make some intelligent and visonary moves. We need to dump some of our OF contracts that are eating up payroll and plug in cheap (young) talent to fill in the gaps. We take the savings, apply a 15-20 percent payroll increase and we have a new, younger core that can compete for years to come. Just some ideas from this magazine and a new member of this community.

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I think after reading the article the whole thing seems possible. Someone get that artcile over to Walt or Dewitt or whoever. My only question would be does A-Rod really want to be a Cardinal & if we pay him $25 Mill a year will we be able to afford Pujols when he is due for another contract?

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Aug 8, 2007 3:14 PM EDT reply actions

Pujols

Pujols would be due an extension the same year Rolen comes off the books, conveniently enough.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 8, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Where's he gonna play?

Rolen doesn't come off the books until 2271.

Cardinal fan from Washington

by JI on Aug 8, 2007 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions

A Rod is a shortstop playing third

base. You do agree we need a new shortstop, right?

by jillsinmo on Aug 8, 2007 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions

A-Rod has gotten huge in the past three years.

I'd be surprised if he could still play the position at even an average level.

Cardinal fan from Washington

by JI on Aug 9, 2007 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions

One problem

He left Carpenter and his salary out of all his calculations.

by tjgila on Aug 8, 2007 3:18 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah

That money pretty much takes care of the free agent pitcher he wants to sign. If Carp winds up being done then I think we could recover some, but not all of his salary via insurance.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 8, 2007 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Excellent point

I knew there was something to this missing. Again I think its a larger issue but the Carpenter deal is a big deal.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Aug 8, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

From my main thread post:

Interesting read but he kind of forgot all the money we owe Carpenter, unless he thinks we're getting 100% of his salary from insurance settlement for some reason. I'm not necessarily opposed to going after Arod for the following reasons:

I much prefer to spend free-agent money on difference-makers than on some of the favorite VEB whipping boy mediocrities we have seen over the last couple of years.

He could play short until Rolen's contract is up, at which point he will probably be about ready to move to 3rd.

It would pretty much force us to use cost-controlled players like Hoffpauir, Rasmus, Ankiel, Ryan, Perez, etc which we need to do instead of wasting money on guys like Miles, PDub, and Gooch that probably won't give any better production than the min salary guys.

The guy does have a good point about a home run record chase possibly boosting attendance even if the team sucks at the time.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 8, 2007 3:19 PM EDT reply actions

carp's salary

unless he thinks we're getting 100% of his salary from insurance settlement for some reason

Will carroll says: "The shoulder was excluded, but the elbow appears to be covered, though one source tells me it has a reduced coverage amount, perhaps half of his salary."

That's a disappointment to me as I thought it would all be covered. Still, half his salary for this year and next year is a significant amount, and a lot of the numbers in the article linked to are ridiculous--why would they give Duncan $2M when he isn't super-2 until after 2008 season? Same with AW. And yadi at $3M next year? Really? All told, he puts about $6M in unnecessary/unlikely raises in his schedule.

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 8, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm pretty sure that insurance

would only cover the cost of Carp's salary if it's career-ending. I've seen nothing to indicate that Carp's career is over. Therefore, ownership should be on the hook for all of it.

by chuckb on Aug 8, 2007 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions

why would that be?

If you're thinking about Bagwell, it's not even close to the same situation, and even in that case the insurance company ended up settling.

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 8, 2007 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Nope...

It's my understanding that it covers time missed. That was the way Bernie explained. I relly don't expect them to put it towards any long term FA deal however.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Aug 9, 2007 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions

Indeed...

I think this article is about even more than getting A-Rod to me, which is almost certainly a pipe dream. This is about the future of the Cardinals as a team and how we will compete in the years to come. Presumably in this scenario the Rolen contract will come off the books in the same year the Pujols contract does so we could apply it to a raise for Albert or what not.

Even more than the $30 million number for A-Rod...what could the Cards do with this amount? We could get Zambrano and a decent other starter. We could save it and get a couple very good position players later on. Hell, we could use a thirtieth of the amount and freaking sign Kyle Russell.

Basically this article is a starting block for a larger convo....will the Cardinals do something this visionary? Will they make this kind of a leap? Certainly it is in their past to a degree...the McGwire trade was awesome and the Rolen trade was a huge development and it set the team up for success (especially the Rolen deal). Can we do it again...and what will it look like? This article or something else?

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Aug 8, 2007 3:23 PM EDT reply actions

The homerun record chase....

seems like it would be more than enough incentive for Dewitt to pony up the money, if he plans on owning the team for the next decade. The revenue from that will be outrageous.

- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 8, 2007 3:44 PM EDT reply actions

You are vastly

overestimating the impact that one player will have on a team's financial status. The ballpark is already full. They can't sell more tickets. ARod would provide very little marginal gain in profit from a business standpoint as far as I can tell.

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Aug 8, 2007 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Good point.

- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 8, 2007 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Full now

Yes it's full now, but what about 5-6 years from now when he's nearing the record? Granted additional revenues probably won't be as much as most people are expecting. But, if he brings in an extra 1000 fans a game (just on his star power, never mind extra attendance due to the team being better) spending $50 a piece (including food, beverage, and souveneers) then that's an extra $4 million a year. That at least help lessen the sting a little bit. Granted that's all a WAG, but I don't think it's entirely unreasonable.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 8, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Also

Even if the ballpark is full, you can always raise prices to cash in on increased demand. See Red Sox, Boston.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 8, 2007 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions

What about

the increased national TV exposure? Would that equal any more revenue for us? The increased media presence, the increased number of nationally televised games...

Crazy thought...how upset does Pujols get at the scrum of press in the clubhouse during a hypothetical A-Rod HR chase? Talk about surly...

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Aug 8, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't believe teams see

$$$ based on how many national televised games there are. MLB negotiates FOX and ESPN to broadcast x number of games and then distributes the money throughout baseball. I don't think there's a gradient in that distribution.

I also don't think it is going to dramatically increase the number of televised games. How many ARod fans are there? It's not like ARod comes aboard and we steal over a bunch of Yankee fans. I'm skeptical that ARod's impact on the peripheral Cardinal fans would last more than a month.

Fans are attached to teams moreso than players. If a team sucks, fans leave. If a team is good, fans come. There are individual exceptions but the Cardinals have already captured there regional market pretty handily.

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Aug 8, 2007 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions

don't forget

jerseys, TV rights etc etc.. and underwear. who wouldn't spend $10-20 on a pair of tightie-wighties with A-ROD plastered across the front of them.

by Birds on the Matt on Aug 8, 2007 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Merchandise, television revenue

The Cardinals could (depending on their current contract) start their own television network, breaking ties with FSN Midwest. I've often wondered why they don't have their own channel. With a stranglehold on the area south of Chicago all the way down to Texas and West to Colorado, it would seem a team with such rich history would be able to sell 'time' for their network.

As far as merchandise, having two players on the same team chasing the same record (something the Mariners once had) would give the Cardinals ample amount of opportunities to sell ARod inspired t-shirts, hats and urinals.

It is true, the seats can't be more full. However, there is more out there for the team to get than just more butts in the seats.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions

With revenue sharing

I don't think this is the financial windfall everyone is making it out to be.

As to the TV station, they could do that without ARod easily and I've also wondered why they haven't.

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Aug 8, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions

I believe the YES! Network and the new stadium

allowed the Yankees to 'hide' revenue from the other teams. A Cardinals network and the Ballpark Village might do that same.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree

you're not going to put many more butts in the seats than they do already. They could raise ticket prices a few bucks, perhaps, but not by much w/o affecting attendance.

They might sell a few more jerseys but what will probably happen is that people will simply buy ARod jerseys rather than Eckstein, Edmonds, or Rolen jerseys. I doubt you'll increase the total number sold.

It would probably increase revenue by a few million $, but not by the $25-30 M to pay for his salary.

by chuckb on Aug 8, 2007 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Playoff money

ARod would also probably bring them playoff money.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm pretty sure TV revenue

is excluded from revenue sharing. Which is why the Cardinals end up sending money to Philadelphia under the current revenue sharing scheme.

by Valatan on Aug 8, 2007 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions

False

Having a player like ARod who is nationally recognized would increase sponsorship deals, increase tv deals, obviously would sell a lot of jerseys etc to people who previously were uninterested in the cardinals. Also batting Pujols-ARod back to back would be the single greatest 3-4 combo IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME. We would be in a position where 3 years down the down we don't need to worry about bringing in players like encarnacion in the first place because between the two BEASTS in the middle of our line up we could bat young guys and grinders like aaron miles. Think about it as just concentrating payroll into a couple key players. This actually fits the cardinals usual plans nicely - a very strong core of stars and then role players surrounding them.

by jnangle472 @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 9, 2007 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions

hmmm

a middle of the order in 09 that looked like anderson, pujols, a-rod, duncan, rasmus....

hmmmmmmm....

by Birds on the Matt on Aug 8, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions

Yes...

I think that lineup could hold off the D-Lee/A-Ram/Soriano combo in 2009. Terrifying really, to thnk about the possibilities.

I also like his point about us (Cardinal fans). We don't just get on players for failing to meet crazy expectations put on them mostly by the national media. We appreciate our guys and I am sure A-Rod would enjoy this atmosphere and the opportunity to hit against the Pirates 15 plus times a year.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Aug 8, 2007 3:57 PM EDT reply actions

by 09

derek lee is going to be using a walker and a-ram's gonna be scootin across the diamond in a rascal.

by Birds on the Matt on Aug 8, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Yep

If the Cubs don't win it all this or next year, I think they'll be crying into their Old Byles with regret over those heavy contracts (not to mention if they re-sign Z for 5 years) by '09--sorta like we're doing now with Rolen, JEd, and Enc. I see it as part of our sacred duty as the NL Champion Of Champions to make sure the Blueboys reach that stage of regret and face the prospect of at least another decade without rings. Though I'm not gonna hold my breath, ARod would certainly further that cause, among others :-)

by rockin redbird on Aug 8, 2007 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Hahaha

I know I was thinking the same thing. Besides, our main competition will be the baby Brewers who will be all growed up by that point. Fielder, Weeks, Braun, Hardy, Gallardo...etc.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Aug 8, 2007 4:05 PM EDT reply actions

even though this comment is baised,

I think A-Rod would be great for St. Louis. In New York, he is constantly under so much criticism and pressure to bring a title every single year, but here, the fans are so much better, and so little pressure would be put on him, because Pujols is already the main star. It would give a-rod some relief so he can do what he does best- be if not the best, then one of the best players in baseball.

Stop being cheap & bring in Zambrano!!

by dunc4life on Aug 8, 2007 4:36 PM EDT reply actions

Money Coming off the Books

I agree with many of the comments posted above about getting A-Rod being unrealistic. However, I think we do have a great opportunity to dump some bad contracts, free up some cash, and really plug in some holes in our lineup. (Rather than the author's idea of spending it all on A-rod)

I'd love some feedback on these ideas (Both the intelligence/feasibility):

Middle Infielder:
Mark Loretta, sign for 3-5mil

OF
Adam Dunn, sign for 11-13mil
or
Milton Bradley (yeah i know he's a "cancer") for 5-6mil
or
Sign and convert Scott Hatteberg to a corner outfielder
3-5 mil
or
Resign the 'Gooch (1-2 mil), honestly his hitting stats are ~= Encarnacion (little less pop, little more OBP)

by duncansarmy on Aug 8, 2007 5:27 PM EDT reply actions

boo on bradley and hattenberg

HURRY BACK CARP AND MULDER

by LaRussa4President on Aug 8, 2007 5:31 PM EDT reply actions

Think about the line up with...

A-rod in it. I know it will never happen but its pretty fun to think what this guys lineup would look like. I would rather see Speizo start at second over Ryan. So here is how I was bat that lineup.

Spezio 2B
Ankiel CF
Pujols 1B
A-Rod SS
Rolen 3B
Duncan LF
Jimmy RF
Yadi C

I Know that Spezio isn't your typical Leadoff hitter but of everyone in this lineup I think he would have the best on base skills. I also know that Ankiel has shown a lack on on base skills but I think you would negate that by hitting in front of Albert and A-Rod (i.e. lots of fastballs). This would work out a lot like Dunc. Rick could see a lot of fastballs to hit while slowly adjusting to major league off speed stuff. Its just a lot of fun thinking about a 1-2 Punch of the best two player of the era. wow.

by BigMac545 on Aug 8, 2007 5:54 PM EDT reply actions

A-Rod...

It's. Not. Going. To. Happen. Ever.

by cardsrul on Aug 8, 2007 6:22 PM EDT reply actions

OF

Duncan, Ankiel and Edmonds in the outfield?

I love Ankiel, but I do not think he is EVER going to be a starter in the major leagues. I love the man because of this comeback but I cannot ever imagine factoring him into the Cardinals plans. To me, there's no difference between Ankiel and Craig Brazell.

I am a firm believer in having Rasmus be the opening day starter in 2008. So what if he hits -.240-10-50? He's an excellent fielder with great range and a hose for an arm.

Bring on the youth movement and throw Rasmus out there. There's no way we'll get A-Rod, but if we did, I'd fall in love with this lineup:

2B Ryan
CF Rasmus
SS A-Rod
1B Pujols
LF Dunc
RF Jimmy
C Yadi
3B Rolen

That's an INCREDIBLE lineup.

by KeepOnRolen on Aug 8, 2007 8:03 PM EDT reply actions

Ankiel

He's a much better bet to produce at the major league level than Rasmus, in '08 anyway.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Aug 9, 2007 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions

BTW...

I don't know how "incredible that lineup is...

Ryan is no sure thing, and could easily fall on his face.

Rasmus probably couldn't crack .240 in the bigs next year.

AROD and PUJOLS would mash, and Duncan seems to be a pretty safe bet for an OPS of .850 or better.

Jimmy could very well be terrible again.

Yadi can't hit...never has, never will.

Will Rolen's shoulder ever get better?

Sure the "heart" of the order would be the best in the league, but the rest of the lineup could very well be terrible.

Adequate but not incredible...

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Aug 9, 2007 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions

if this happened....

i would prob. go outside to look for the pigs...as in the ones falling from the sky. but...if it did it would significantly change my attitude towards the organization at this point.

it would affirm my belief that the 'real' reason we haven't been able to make a big deal in awhile is truly b/c the 'right' player hasn't become available, not that we're frugal and expect everyone to take a 'discount' to play for our great fans.
and even though i don't think there's much of a chance, i am very much in favor of the cards looking into it. in my mind, without severly altering the shape of our farm system, there is no way for us to acquire impact pitching (short of signing zambrano, and i see that as being even less likely than arod). so in that regard the only way for our team to become appreciably better in 08' is to significantly improve the offense(how many more games would we have won this year if we could drive in risp? and that's w/ bad starting pitching...in 08' we could have a healthy mark mulder, a year 2 wainwright, an improved reyes, and a much stronger looper..not terrible).
what better way to improve an offense than adding the 2nd best righthanded hitter in the game (the best at this moment) to bat behind the best.
those two in the middle of the lineup could make the whole team that much better (think about how albert make the team go when he's on, and then multiply that).
if you've got the chance to bookend two of the top rh hitters in mlb baseball history (at least based on early returns)...you do it...right

grow back the beard adam...it couldn't hurt

by intimidator45 on Aug 9, 2007 12:42 AM EDT reply actions

Signing ARod

would have been like trading for Dimaggio in his prime to hit behind Musial.

Bringing Koufax in to pitch with Gibby.

Or, ya know...keeping Steve Carlton. Hmph.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 9, 2007 1:15 AM EDT reply actions

Bring in the Fences

Attracting A-Rod for HR chase, and keeping Pujols may both require improving the Busch III rating.

A second season has proven that opening the outfield to see the Arch did not promote balls to land in the river, or even the street. How long will it take to decide to move in the fences?

It would be a shame to wait five years to do it, after they acknowledge that it played a role in not getting A-Rod and reducing Pujols' career numbers (and maybe even tempting him to move on).

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Aug 9, 2007 4:40 AM EDT reply actions