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Around SBN: Stan Van Gundy Fired As Head Coach Of The Magic

a short window

the latest update in the Daily Fix baseball contest posted today, w/ commentary from me and a bunch of other know-it-alls.

the 2-1 loss yesterday was the cardinals' 3d defeat by that score in the month of august; rich hill and brad penny also dealt them 2-1 losses. and it was their 5th defeat since the all-star break in which they yielded only 2 runs. to put that into context, only 7 teams have lost as many as 5 games all season when yielding 2 runs; the cards have lost that many in a month and a half. over that span they have won only 1 game when scoring fewer than 4 runs, and only 3 games when scoring fewer than 5. something tells me the spate of low-scoring losses is going to come back to haunt the cardinals.

yesterday's loss guarantees that the cardinals will enter september with a losing record. i did a little spot-checking, and unless i missed something there has only been one playoff team in history that entered september with a losing record: the 1973 mets. they were 9 games under on the morning of september 1, at 62-71, 5.5 games behind the division-leading cardinals (who were only 2 games over), but new york went 20-8 in september and clinched on the final day, then came within a game of winning it all. that was only the 5th season of divisional play, and the first indication that winning a baseball championship might not always mean what it used to back in the good ol' days. . . . a couple of other teams, the 2005 padres and 1984 royals, were right at .500 at september's outset, and both teams fell under .500 after september 1. the royals didn't reach .500 for good until september 4; in the case of the padres, they were under .500 as late as september 27 --- yet still were comfortably ahead in their division (4 games up with only 5 to play). of these three precedents, the only one that might be even slightly applicable is that of the '84 royals. like this year's cards, that was an aged team with a long string of division titles behind it; they didn't pitch particularly well (7th in era in a 14-team league) and couldn't score (11th in runs), and they bumbled along under .500 nearly all season and only stayed in the race by virtue of weak competition. through august 31 they were 2 games out in a 3-way race that was led at that point by minnesota (the angels were also in the mix). the royals won it with pitching (is there any other way?) --- in 28 september games they posted a 3.27 era and allowed just 100 overall runs, or 3.6 a game.

the cards' own pitching situation gained some clarity yesterday; la russa told rick hummel the cards probably will go with 6 starters down the stretch, with mulder joining the current group of 5. tony's trying to protect wainwright and looper, who are both at or above 150 innings and in their first season as big-league starters. "this ensures that they're going to have that extra freshness," la russa said --- suddenly images of vacuum-packaged baked goods loom before my eyes. . . . . i can't say i have a strong opinion one way or the other. going with a 6-man rotation will cost each of the 5 current members of the rotation 1 start down the stretch, but the only pitcher for whom that really matters is wainwright; he's the only one who's good enough that you'd care about maximizing his contribution. it doesn't look as if he's flagging to me; his innings total is not high at all (163.1), and he has only topped 100 pitches in half his starts. he does not have a tender young arm that needs to be sheltered from overuse; today is adam's 26th birthday. i'd like to see him take 6 or 7 starts in the final month, instead of 5 or 6. but i seriously doubt that it's going to decide the race. if the cards are still in it with 2 weeks to go, tony can always revert to a 5-man cycle, so wainwright might end up with the same number of starts he'd have had anyway.

of course, there's another possibility --- a kind of obvious one --- that i haven't heard any discussion of: trade one of 'em. the dodgers, braves, phillies, and rockies are desperate for pitching, and the top two contenders for the al wild-card (yankees and mariners) both could use some rotation reinforcements. looper would be a clear upgrade for any of those teams, and some among'm might consider wells an improvement. toss in one of the surplus relievers, and the cards might get a worthwhile prospect out of the deal. . . . . such a move would hardly constitute "quitting," by the way --- last i checked, 5 starting pitchers were usually considered sufficient for a pennant race (if that's what the cards are in). if they did find a taker for one of their pitchers, they could plug in a replacement (mulder) who's probably no worse than the departee --- ie, who's probably capable of a 5.00 era. jocketty has a surplus, and a short window in which to deal from it; i hope the opportunity arises.

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Having been in Cincy for 10 yrs,
I've come to realize that lack of baseball knowledge of many 'fans', but still...  This was one of the early morning posts on their site...
"I did a Google search for "jackelope," and it asked me if I meant "jackalope."  Shouldn't it be spelled with an e, since it's a combination of a jack rabbit and an antelope?  Anyone?"

Huh???  But  on the brite side, the Bengals have a home game tonight. Nothing like a friday night tailgater while watching the redbirds take it to the hometown redlegs..

by toris34 on Aug 31, 2007 9:43 AM EDT reply actions  

A trade
I wish I could say that they would trade Looper today, but they won't.  It reeks of giving up, especially after having lost 2 of 3 to the Astros and w/ Rolen hurt.  It's not giving up, of course, but will be perceived by some as giving up -- that's why they won't do it.  It's a good idea in theory but Walt won't do it b/c of how it'll be perceived.

As for the suicide (squeeze) article -- really interesting though it didn't really tell me anything I didn't already believe.  I wonder why he didn't address the possibility of 1st and 3rd w/ 1 out.  It's a DP situation and, with the right batter, the manager might be inclined to bunt anyway to avoid the DP.  Maybe the RE isn't any higher -- it might, in fact, be lower but when you account for the possibility of the DP and ending up w/ nothing, it seems a little more plausible.  I would've liked to see it addressed, anyway.  

It also didn't address the score differential of when the squeeze should be used.  Would you ever use it in a tie game?  Tony only seems to use it when ahead by 1 or 2 and trying to add that next insurance run.

It might also be a good idea to use in the regular season so as to:  1 -- give other managers the idea that you might use it against them as well and 2 -- ensure that your players can execute it properly if called to do it in Sept. or Oct.  Even if the RE adds nothing, it might be worth using for those reasons alone.

by chuckb on Aug 31, 2007 10:12 AM EDT reply actions  

Happy Birthday Adam Wainwright
As his fantasy owner, I am firmly against the move to a six man rotation.
Hello, playoff mosey

by Alxfritz on Aug 31, 2007 10:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Happy Birthday
to Wagonmaker!
Cheering on the Cardinals, one pitch at a time.

by ColinMacLeod on Aug 31, 2007 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Houston announcers
had a good idea.

The Cards should go after Ensberg. The Pads aren't using him. They didn't pay to much for him. He might be an answer.

by Harknights on Aug 31, 2007 10:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Trade
You think you could get a trade like that through past the deadline?
The St Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champs!

by Zubin on Aug 31, 2007 10:27 AM EDT reply actions  

Three way trade?
Could this be a way to get Glaus?  Give up Looper and a Bullpen Arm to a team looking for SP, have the team that's giving up the SP send a prospect to the Jays, and send Glaus to STL?  

That would definitely not be giving up.

by Valatan on Aug 31, 2007 10:29 AM EDT reply actions  

If Glaus' bat has anything
left, that trade might help address the initial point of LB's post, that our offense is getting shut down an awful lot.
"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2007 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Walt's quote not encouraging
"Jocketty has been checking for third basemen but said, 'There's not much out there. They're either not available or haven't cleared waivers.'"

in today's post dispatch.

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 31, 2007 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well Glaus
has cleared waivers, and should be available....

by saladdays on Aug 31, 2007 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

The real question is...
Who do we have that has cleared waivers?  I haven't heard that Looper has.  mlbtraderumors had a list up the other day

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/08/players-who-hav.html  

, but I don't see any Cards players on there...of course they don't know everyone that has cleared, and this list is a week and a half old.

by cardzfanbub on Aug 31, 2007 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

What
would we do with both Glaus and Rolen next year? Last I checked we dont play in the AL

by FunkeeC on Aug 31, 2007 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who is to say Rolen plays next year?
Shoulder surgery require for a 3rd time on 1 shoulder and the other is starting to bother him as well.  He may very well be done.

And, stick Troy Glaus in LF for all I care.  We don't have too many guys on this team that can hit 35 HRs anymore.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 31, 2007 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

not much of an upgrade defensively,
but Glaus has logged some innings as SS as well...

by yorktro on Aug 31, 2007 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

....Maaaannnn!
How much do the Padres want to see the Cards improve right now based on past playoff experience...not much! Ensberg could be REAL expensive!

The Glaus 3-way deal could very well be do-able because it removes potential NL play off teams blocking a deal as readily. Or so eagerly...

If the Angels have an expendable prospect for the Jays that will fill a void in Canada, Anaheim could use the pitching help and the GMs seem to get things done together?  

How about Reyes, Jaun and Percival (they dont need Jaun tho! darn!! Haynes and Willets are ok, but Jaun could be good OF pinch hit insurance and hes cheap!), but it get Reyes back to Cali where he thrived and brings back a known commodity with a 94+ heater to the bullpen. So what would the Jays want?

This is nuts!(but a BIG improvement over my previous mindset of early Aug!)

This is insane! Rolen? Mulder? Glaus? Cubs? Brewers? Enseberg? .500? Pujols? Trade? Yes? No?

by cardschinmusic on Aug 31, 2007 11:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Glaus...
as much as i'd like to get him, what would we do with him once Rolen gets back? He's owed way too much money to a bench player. So unless Rolen's injury is career ending, a trade for Glaus wouldn't make sense.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 31, 2007 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Depends on what DeWitt wants to spend
you COULD keep him as a backup player, you could use him as Speezer to give days off.

Also, you could try to repackage him this off-season (with his acceptance) and deal him somewhere as a salary dump.

Finally, there is Walt' comments in the PD this morning that seem to indicate that they believe Rolen actually may just need rest and treatment and can return to play in the next 13 days.

Rolen will likely be DL'd if he can't play by Monday (determined today) which means that Cairo and someone else will be called up to get the extra position player for playoff rosters.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 31, 2007 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chris Lambert
is the guy we gave up for Maroth - thoughts?

by jdonels on Aug 31, 2007 11:18 AM EDT reply actions  

At what time
is the trade deadline today?

by saladdays on Aug 31, 2007 11:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Tim Brown's Blog
just scanning Yahoo News! this morning hoping to hear that Troy Glaus was spotted at Lambert Airport and crossed this little nugget:

Because so few starting pitchers cleared waivers, baseball execs don't expect much movement in the next 24 hours, though the St. Louis Cardinals had a notion of acquiring Jose Contreras if the Chicago White Sox picked up enough of the $20 million due Contreras over the next two seasons.
- Tim Brown's Blog

I don't know what or why we would want Contreras, however his addition would mean that a starting pitcher would be on his way out.  Pineiro, they see as the next Suppan, Wainwright is established and Reyes will have to be traded or kept in the off-season.  Mulder is staying as well.

That means Braden Looper would have to be moved to the bullpen or to outer regions.

Perhaps that is the 1st domino, getting Contreras?  Remember, the Cards got Pineiro as part of 3 deals, the other 2 being Percival to Colorado(?) and Matt Morris from the Giants.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 31, 2007 11:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Now to further this rumor
the White Sox are going to go after Eckstein hard this off-season as their SS.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/536343,CST-SPT-soxip31.article

So, pair those two together, flip Eckstein to the White Sox for Contreras and $7M in cash (making his contract $6.5 M each of the next two years) and I think you have dancing partners.

Ryan moves over to SS, Miles stays at 2B for the rest of the season and Cairo/Hauf/Barden get playing time at 3B/2B.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 31, 2007 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, if the Sox are
really thinking that, I'm blown away.  And let's hope that rumor is true, because then Eck will take their multiyear deal and turn down the one-year deal that WJ is sure to offer him.
"We're sniffing the winning situation."

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 31, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hail!
To the 2008 draft class, baby!

by liam on Aug 31, 2007 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmm
why would they throw in cash? They're getting an eckstein rental and we're getting 2 years of a starting pitcher. If anyone would need to throw in extra money or players in a deal like that, I would think it'd be the cardinals.

by Birds on the Matt on Aug 31, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh, because it is almost a strict cash
dump on their part.  Contreras makes $10 M each of the next 2 years.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 31, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seems to me...
If they got Contreras and with Mulder coming back they'd just move Pineiro to the bullpen and possibly Looper as well. They could always DFA Pineiro too, not like he is makin' anything (as far as i know).

by lopey986 on Aug 31, 2007 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trade deadline at midnight ET
see link.

So plenty of time for Walt to work his magic.

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 31, 2007 2:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Cubs re-acquire Steve Traschel
for Rocky Cherry and Scott Moore.  

Cardinals to counter with Jason Simo for Hauff and Walters.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 31, 2007 2:54 PM EDT reply actions  

worst trade ever
that is all
Amaury Marti at the Hot Corner!

by mattyfrommo on Aug 31, 2007 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hunter Pence 3-R HR off Marshall
Houston up 4-0 in the 4th.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 31, 2007 3:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Hunter Pence
3 run jack....4-0 Stros.

It's really hard to root for Houston...Really, really hard.

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 31, 2007 3:36 PM EDT reply actions  

eh...
I don't mind rooting for them as much as I would rooting for the Cubs..or Red Sox. I'm just afraid of the Astros going on someone hot streak and getting themselves back in this handicapped division race.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 31, 2007 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

WE JUST GOT RUSSELL BRANYAN
HALLELUJAH, WE ARE SAVED
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 31, 2007 3:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Uh...hmm
I don't know what to say.  Duncan and Branyan will be creating a stiff breeze in downtown St. Louis.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 31, 2007 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Serious?
So much for Glaus..
"We're too talented to let this season go down the drain." - Adam Wainwright

by stltrav09 on Aug 31, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't worry, Hal McRae will fix him
he'll tell him what he tells every hitter on the team:

"You're really good when you're real 'quite' at the plate".

I've heard Pujols, Duncan and Ludwick all say that was the advice he gave them.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 31, 2007 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well
McRae must be pleased then with Duncan. After a few "noisy" months to start off the year, Duncan has quited down nicely.

by JMedwick on Aug 31, 2007 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Defense
Hes no Rolen but how bad defensively is he?  Is he a C (average)?  Not that I remember.

by lankford on Aug 31, 2007 3:57 PM EDT reply actions  

checking baseball reference...
he hasn't made an error at 3rd this year in something like 41 games. I'd guess he's about average
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 31, 2007 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmm
Im actually quite surprised....his range has to be limited at best then.

by lankford on Aug 31, 2007 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

The question is
what did we give up to get BRANYAN

by JMedwick on Aug 31, 2007 4:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Nothing
I think he was released....

by lankford on Aug 31, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

PTBNL
for Branyan from Phillies, according the mlb.com new release.

by redrey on Aug 31, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

With the talk about Mulder
does anyone have info on his minor league starts, particularly his speed and command?

by JMedwick on Aug 31, 2007 4:03 PM EDT reply actions  

from what i've read...
command has been good, speed not so much. topping out at about 91.
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 31, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he's topping out at 91
I'd say that's DANG good for Mulder.

by sdrone on Aug 31, 2007 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

All I really care about
is how much bite his splitter has.
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 31, 2007 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly...
will this team ever stop being retread central station?
- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 31, 2007 4:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Alternatives?
Russell Branyan is not the answer but what else were the cards supposed to do?  Glaus is too much salary to take on w/ the Rolen's uncertain future.  Feliz - I dont know, what is he going to provide above Branyan.  If i remember Branyan is a streaky hitter...maybe he gets hot.  I think its no risk move

by lankford on Aug 31, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why was Glaus too much salary?
I understand, of course, a $13 M backup is a lot of money but how many years in a row have we heard "We'll be willing to increase payroll if the right player comes along".

A power hitting 3rd basemen in a pennant race seems like a decent enough player to spend alittle extra cash on.

We don't know what will happen with Rolen's shoulder if he has this other surgery.  We don't know if he'll ever be able to play a whole season again.  Heck, Glaus might want to be traded to New York in the offseason to replace ARod when he walks.

The talent was there, the Cardinals had the money. Whether the Blue Jays were dealing or not, who knows, but the contract should have been the last thing they worry about.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 31, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rolen's Future
If Rolen was done I agree then Glaus was a viable option but as of right now from what we are being told we dont know.  I just cant see paying a guy that much money for 1 possibly 2 months if we make the playoffs.  I think even though we want Dewitt to spend more there has to be at least a little fiscal responsibility.  The last thing I want to hear next year is we cannot spend money b/c "remember we acquired Glaus for the pennant run." But again if Rolen is done then that is a different story.

by lankford on Aug 31, 2007 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

and...
an 11 million player option for 09...50/50 if he takes it?

by lankford on Aug 31, 2007 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

oops
Sorry about the grammar - its 145am in india

by lankford on Aug 31, 2007 4:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Rolen has officially been DL'd
Lineup per Goold:

CARDINALS

  1. Eckstein, SS
  2. Ankiel, RF
  3. Pujols, 1B
  4. Edmonds, CF
  5. Duncan, LF
  6. Molina, C
  7. Miles, 2B
  8. Reyes, RHP
  9. Ryan, 3B
Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 31, 2007 4:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Your thoughts hardcore
I have not commented on this forum until today but have followed for a while...Hardcore, do you really think signing Glaus with his contract is the answer?  You think that is the right move?

by lankford on Aug 31, 2007 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

At least
with Branyan, we might see Ryan at 2B and Miles on the bench.

by cards13 on Aug 31, 2007 5:01 PM EDT reply actions  

apparently you havent
watched TLR much...oh and when did we get bad reyes back?
07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Aug 31, 2007 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

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