Rolen replacement thread

by guayzimi on Aug 29, 2007 8:04 PM EDT

What are the possibilities?

Brendan Ryan - This would bring Miles and Eckstein, into the lineup now, and perhaps Kennedy when he returns. Hoff-power could help bolster the middle infield once September rolls around.

Scott Spiezio - Is he done for the year?

Albert Pujols - Duncan to first, Enc and Ankiel at the corners. Would LaRussa dare?

A trade - Who's out there? Shea Hillenbrand (shudder)

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Theres

36 million reasons why he won't be replaced.

by bigboy1234 on Aug 29, 2007 7:58 PM EDT 0 recs

Ah I thought you meant long term

in the short, I really have no idea.

by bigboy1234 on Aug 29, 2007 8:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don't think you want Al diving around

at third base. Is it more taxing to play 3B than 1B when it comes to the legs??

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Aug 29, 2007 8:01 PM EDT 0 recs

but at this point, if Rolen's out, Pujols playing 3rd would essentially allow us to replace Rolen's bat with an extra outfielder (assuming Duncan plays first), likely with Enc, Ankiel, and Ludwick getting most of the additional at-bats. That's a whole lot better than moving Ryan to 3B and giving those ABs to Miles.

Enc or Ankiel both have been better at the plate than Rolen has, while Miles is certainly a significant downgrade. While nobody can play 3B like Rolen, moving Albert to third, while unlikely, would be by far the best move offensive-wise, possibly even an upgrade.

by CardFaninVA on Aug 29, 2007 8:11 PM EDT up 0 recs

wait,

what happened to Rolen? Did he get injured today/last night?

Stop being cheap & bring in Zambrano!!

by dunc4life on Aug 29, 2007 8:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

way more, though

the gap is less because albert plays 1b the way some people play 3b, as opposed to, say, the way dmitri young plays it.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Aug 29, 2007 8:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

Abraham Nunez

The Phillies now have a ton of infielders and you know Tony doesn't like to try new things.

I'm utterly depressed that I won't get to watch Scott play anymore this season.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 29, 2007 8:05 PM EDT 0 recs

as I read the diary

I was thinking "where's Abe Nunez when you need him?"

Or maybe Tatis....

by nota bene on Aug 30, 2007 5:05 AM EDT up 0 recs

I brought up

in the game thread maybe Pedro Feliz or Troy Glaus as "Rentals".

But I'm not sure what their contract status is.

by KYCards on Aug 29, 2007 8:11 PM EDT 0 recs

per mlbcontracts

feliz is on a 1-year deal and glaus is a FA after 2008.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Aug 29, 2007 8:14 PM EDT up 0 recs

it's gonna be

miguel cairo --- they probably picked him up knowing that rolen could go down at any time . . . .

there's also the kid they claimed on waivers from the dbacks, who's now down at memphis --- brian barden.

there's edgar gonzalez.

they could bring hoffpaiur up to play 2b, and use ryan / miles as a platoon at 3b . . .

rich aurilia might be available from the giants.

the blue jays are trying to dump troy glaus . . .

by lboros on Aug 29, 2007 8:13 PM EDT 0 recs

hadn't considered

aurilia, though i remember looking at him a couple days ago and thinking "done."

just looked at barden's stats, and he doesn't look like he'd help much in the short term.

i like the hoffpauir idea the best, but i agree - it's gonna be cairo.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Aug 29, 2007 8:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

Bad thing is

Cairo won't provide us with much offense, he has or at least had a little "pop" but he is not a threat.

I hope DeWitt will allow Walt to pick up someone like Glaus or Feliz to try and get into the playoffs. I know there is some funds in the cash vault.

by KYCards on Aug 29, 2007 8:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

Agreed

we need to remember that Rolen's production this year has been a .730 OPS. I have some optimism that Hoffpaiur could do that, whereas Cairo's and Miles' career and season numbers don't suggest they could.

I'd support the idea of bringing up Hoffpaiur and installing Ryan as the everyday 3B, while platooning Hoffpaiur and Miles at 2B.

Regardless, given that they only have 5 IFs right now, if Rolen's out, they'll probably add 2 in September, and you'd have to think that those 2 would be Cairo and Hoffpaiur.

by CardFaninVA on Aug 29, 2007 8:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

Glaus

Did he pass through waivers?

Hello, playoff race

by Alxfritz on Aug 30, 2007 3:59 AM EDT up 0 recs

If Glaus is a FA after 2008

what would we do with him next year????

Offseason Rolen trade?

Right, I'm sure we'd get a lot for him, now that he's clearly at the height of his 'value' on the market. Who the f#*& would take on that contract for a guy who - when it is all said and done - just cannot stay healthy.

Remember all the hype in Spring T about how finally, Rolen was going to have a season with a 'pain-free' shoulder; about how the labrum takes 12 months to recover (and he was in the clear). If we keep him, I'm sure we'll get yet another healthy does of Rolen -hype "He really is healthy this year - I SWEAR IT!"

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 30, 2007 9:18 AM EDT up 0 recs

i'm pretty sure

that i read/heard in more than one place that he did , in fact, clear.

by sdesserman on Aug 30, 2007 12:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

This probably also puts a nail

in the coffin of Rolen winning another Gold Glove this year.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 29, 2007 8:26 PM EDT 0 recs

And probably

what little Hall of Fame chances he had.

I have a bad feeling Rolen won't be able to come back at even 80% after another surgery.
His days as a full time player again might be in doubt I'm afraid. He can't seem to stay healthy for a full season.

by KYCards on Aug 29, 2007 8:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

Rolen

will be in the Hall, and I can almost guarantee it. Pretty much all sportswriters consider him the best third basemen of the past decade.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Aug 29, 2007 8:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

yeah,

he could have gotten to the hall only on his defense, but with the stellar offense that he had for most of his career, that pushed him up to probably being voted in on the 1st ballot.

bring in livian hernandez!

by dunc4life on Aug 29, 2007 9:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

No way

does Rolen get into the hall if his career ends this year.

Sure he played as good or better than Mike Schmidt up to 2004. But Schmidt hit over 500 home runs in addition to being the best at his position when he played.

by silent_bob on Aug 29, 2007 9:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

yet Schmidt himself

has said that Rolen is better than he was. Surely that counts for something....

by nota bene on Aug 30, 2007 5:02 AM EDT up 0 recs

better defensively

not better...

Schmidt's probably the best 3b of all-time.

by chuckb on Aug 30, 2007 7:39 AM EDT up 0 recs

Rolen

he may get another cortisone shot, if it is deemed that it will not do further damage for him to keep playing this year.

I actually hope they shut him down and clean out his shoulder this year.

by silent_bob on Aug 29, 2007 9:17 PM EDT 0 recs

Yeah...

I don't see alot of promising options to replace him but shutting him down is the right move. He hasn't been right all year.

MAYBE he comes back healthy next year....ah, what am I talking about?

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Aug 30, 2007 12:33 AM EDT up 0 recs

Hee Seop Choi

is officially my least favorite baseball player of all times. Scotty was so good in 2004/2005, and running into that ginormous (it's a word now) man has essentially ended his career. It makes me sad.

When I read that Rolen may be gone for the season, it's like all the wind that was in my sails for us pushing back to .500 went away, and I got back into early-season "is it football season yet?" mode (and yes, it basically is!). I hope the club didn't have the same reaction as I did. I think part of it may have been that it was Kip Wells vs. Roy Oswalt tonight, possibly the worst pitching matchup of all times.

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Aug 29, 2007 9:54 PM EDT 0 recs

i would LOVE to see Troy Glaus

take over for Sotty. but that would never happen. dude can flat out mash. desent glove, but not even close to being as good as Scotty when he's healthy.

it's just such a shame to have a guy with the talent and ability of Scotty's be hurt so much and not be able to play up to his abilities.

Tony's right. this game we all love so much can be very, very cruel.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Aug 29, 2007 10:50 PM EDT 0 recs

Cruel....

Woah now, let's not get carried away. It's not as though Scott Rolen is going to be living on the streets now that he can't play well any more. Scotty is set for life, his kids are set for his life, his grand kids are set for life, and most likely their kids are set for life.

The only thing it's cruel to is the fans, who loved watching Scotty play in his healthy prime.

- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 30, 2007 9:12 AM EDT up 0 recs

Why doesn't Scott fly back to St. Louis now

that's probably the more damning sign. If they really thought he could get treatment, he'd already be on his way back to St. Louis so that he could be ready to play come Friday or Saturday from the cortisone shot.

I wonder if he'd consider trying the manipulation on his shoulder and if it fails, then get surgery.

What is the down time from the manipulation?

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 29, 2007 11:05 PM EDT 0 recs

Week of physical therapy

daily range of motion for that week, then progression to some strengthening.

It'd be at least >1 week, most likely 2 weeks or more if they're conservative.

I think it's likely that they manipulate it then clean it out arthroscopically, which puts him out for the year, essentially.

by silent_bob on Aug 30, 2007 8:19 AM EDT up 0 recs

For what it's worth...

Here is what I would do.

Call up Hoffpauir and Barden. We've been playing short-handed in the infield for quite some time now. Since Speez left anyway. With Rolen not being able to play regularly even before this news....another infielder was needed.

You are sending down a pitcher before the 1st anyway right?

Ryan at 3B, Eck at SS, Hoff at 2B, Miles backs up the middle and Barden the corners.

That's the best we can throw out there at this time, right?

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Aug 30, 2007 12:42 AM EDT 0 recs

Isn't the Hoff

going to the AFL?

Hello, playoff race

by Alxfritz on Aug 30, 2007 3:59 AM EDT up 0 recs

Yes but that doesn't

start until October

by StLHugo on Aug 30, 2007 8:46 AM EDT up 0 recs

Gotcha

thanks

Hello, playoff race

by Alxfritz on Aug 30, 2007 9:17 AM EDT up 0 recs

Pujols @ 3B

not in a million years.

Not having Spiezio really sucks right now....I wish the team would let us know something, anything.

Maybe with all these outfielders, Jock can find a guy who can at least play defense and not strike out a gazillion times....there has to be somebody available.....

Folks keep mentioning Ryan....can he actually play third base?

by nota bene on Aug 30, 2007 5:12 AM EDT 0 recs

I can see the headlines....

"Jaun Richarson Belts 10th HR While Playing Stellar Defense for the St Louis Cardinals during the month of September" Hey, its about a good as some of the other suggestions above and I can dream.

How about this one "Speez makes Miraculous Comeback, Hitting .366 since return!"

Theres NO replacement for Rolen at third....its gonna be Cairo and Ryan. Maybe Glaus shows up and turns in the 07 version of Will the Thrill.

....then we have the entire 03 Angels team pass waivers all over the league and take over the roster.

And I'm also the President of the "Armando Benitez Take Your Shortstop To Work With You" Association.

by cardschinmusic on Aug 30, 2007 7:57 AM EDT 0 recs

Except ......

Richardson is already injured for the season.

- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 30, 2007 9:13 AM EDT up 0 recs

You know...

I did play third on my softball team and we won the league we were in at Forest Park. Seasons over now...

Just sayin...

Hello, playoff race

by Alxfritz on Aug 30, 2007 8:02 AM EDT 0 recs

Both Shoulders

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet in this thread is that his right shoulder is now in pain as well, it isn't just the surgically repaired one. I doubt this is something manipulation could help and I am almost certain that if he plays he will be pushed into the 7th spot in the lineup so he won't try as hard but I really hope for his sake and next year that he is done for the year.

As for a fill in, Ryan is decent but as evidenced last night he is still raw, I think Ryan going back to spelling the MIF and Cairo being the everyday 3B or Barden for that matter (he is on the 40 man already) is our best bet.

by StLHugo on Aug 30, 2007 8:50 AM EDT 0 recs

That is simply

a case of him compensating for the injured side - most likely on his swing.

Another thing to think about. He's lost alot of his range of motion in his glove shoulder, yet he still plays gold-glove defense. pretty impressive.

by silent_bob on Aug 30, 2007 9:19 AM EDT up 0 recs

For those wondering about Troy Glaus

He has cleared waivers.

He is limited to playing 3B, so if Rolen returns, we have no place for Glaus to play in 2008.

Glaus's contract situation:
07:$10.75M
08:$12.75M
09:$11.25M player option
Full no-trade clause

Glaus was a member of the 2002 Anaheim Angels, so there is the possibility that if they asked him about a trade, he might waive his no trade clause.

However, for that deal to make ANY sense, Toronto would have to pick up atleast $5M of his 2008 contract.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 30, 2007 10:22 AM EDT 0 recs

Player Option?

Don't know if I like having a 12M player option hanging over our heads either.

by StLHugo on Aug 30, 2007 10:23 AM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah but 2 things

1 - If Rolen is 'done' then Glaus is actually a cheaper alternative than Rolen.
2 - Glaus will be 33 years old that summer. He may decide to cash in somewhere else.

Trust me, it pains me to see Scott not in the lineup and I'm hoping that another cortisone shot on Friday loosens it all back up.

But I'd also like to have a third legit 30 HR guy in the lineup, too.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 30, 2007 10:29 AM EDT up 0 recs

I'd love to get Glaus.....

A legitimate power threat hitting behind Pujols. He won't have the glove that Rolen has, but he can hit the ball a ton.

- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 30, 2007 10:36 AM EDT up 0 recs

A question though...

do prospects not on the 40 man have to pass through waivers?

- Y. Molina stole third

by TriplePlay on Aug 30, 2007 10:36 AM EDT up 0 recs

Aurilla

When he left Giants for Reds, I figured his career - which at one point included some gaudy offensive numbers - was over.

Saw him play a number of games at Great American Ballpark and I can attest that he flat hits the ball. He is a professional hitter.

He's no here but if he has any gas left in his tank..........

by Hinkster on Aug 30, 2007 1:15 PM EDT 0 recs

sorry must edit in future

"He's no hero"

by Hinkster on Aug 30, 2007 1:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

Goold ponders 3rd base hole.

Not sure if anyone else has posted the link but Goold brain storms potential replacements for Scott Rolen... a bit of a teaser at the end.

Here's the Link... Birdland: 3rd Base Alternatives

by AndyB83 on Aug 30, 2007 2:03 PM EDT 0 recs

Teaser at the end

I expected he'd bring up the possibility of dragging John Mabry out of retirement for one last playoff run.

That'd make more sense than half of the other options in there.

by liam on Aug 30, 2007 2:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

Not only that

but he decides to waste time breaking down a guy who DIDN'T clear waivers.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 30, 2007 2:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah...

I wish Albert was healthier... Tony's made quite a few comments this year about his confidence at using Albert at any infield spot if needed. Well, we need it now and, like my friend and roommate suggested elsewhere on the thread... this would allow the Cards to facilitate the logjam in the outfield by utilizing Duncan at 1st.

However, that's pretty outside of the box... especially after conveniently acquiring a veteran like Miguel Cairo for Tony to employ.

If we are going to take a hit on defense anyways, then I would be tempted to pencil in Edgar Gonzalez because of his offensive potential (batting .311/.381/.455 at Memphis this season).

Should be an interesting debate anyways.

by AndyB83 on Aug 30, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

Mather Mather Mather

Mather Mather Mather Mather Mather

by Lawless on Aug 30, 2007 4:31 PM EDT 0 recs

Great Discussion

I hate to see Scotty go down, but that guy needs to get healthy. We need the full Rolen during the next couple of years.

In house options:

Defensive Options:

Barden - rumored to be a stud defensively
Spezio - if available
Cairo - 88 games of experience
Ryan - inconsistent lately

5-8 Miles,Hoffpaiur,Gonzalez,Mather all below avg.

Duncan (drafted as a 3rd baseman.)
Pujols - In way too much pain.

Offensive Options:

Pujols - however, this will not happen.
Duncan
Spezio - if available
Mather - good power
Gonzalez - offensively, can rake...defensively, uses a rake.
Hoffpauir - hits everywhere he goes
Ryan - will probably cool off soon.

8-10 Miles, Cairo, Barden - all .600 to .700 OPS

And the winner is: Heck if I know. Personally, I would like to get a glimpse of Barden, Gonzalez, and Mather in the lineup somewhere and Hoffpauir at 2nd base. However, don't be shocked when LaRussa starts throwing Cairo out there until Spezio returns.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Aug 30, 2007 6:06 PM EDT 0 recs

3T0 Supastah

Russell Branyan was DFA'd.

I could live with that.

by RedbirdRay on Aug 30, 2007 6:55 PM EDT 0 recs

my thoughts

I would love to see Pujols play third and 1) show the world how amazing an athlete he is, and 2) get Duncan's bat in the lineup every night and play a variety of outfields against lefties/righties.

I think that if Hoffpaiur is being slotted in for next year anyway, then he should be brought up to play third as soon as September (and the 40 man roster) hits.

stlfan

by stlfan on Aug 30, 2007 11:03 PM EDT 0 recs

From the PD

Jocketty has been checking for third basemen but said, "There's not much out there. They're either not available or haven't cleared waivers."

Either Ken Rosenthal lied or Walt is just saying 'we don't want to spend money' because Troy Glaus has been reported to have cleared waivers.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 31, 2007 8:15 AM EDT 0 recs

Or

The Blue Jays aren't making Glaus available.

by liam on Aug 31, 2007 11:08 AM EDT up 0 recs

What is the deal with Scotty Ro?

I know it's his sholder, but has it gotten worse? I've not been able to see a game in a while (Just left for collage, and I'm now in cub land) is he out of the lineup? Last game I watched online he was out. I'm out of the loop sorry guys could somebody please catch me up?

Save the Kipper don't make him go back out there.

by gibbyfan on Aug 31, 2007 1:11 PM EDT 0 recs