Proposed Trade and Other Stuff

by Lawless on Aug 26, 2007 2:00 PM EDT Comment 45 comments

I am of the ilk that Tony LaRussa is one of the main factors that this team is above 500 right now. I also think that as long as Tony and Dave stay Walt will stay (and Jeff will build the farm until it gets the recognition it deserves).

That said, I think Reyes is not a pitcher who is going to stick in STL (as much as I wish he would). So hit the jump and I'll let you know what I would trade him for as well as my plan for the Cards through the rest of this year and in 2008...

My Reyes Trade:

Anthony Reyes and pick a reliever (say Mark Worrell, Dove, Thompson, Motte - hopefully not Motte, etc etc.) for

Elvis Andrus

Why the Rangers would do it - Micheal Young is signed long term and will remain at SS. My understanding is that he has 5 years remaining on his contract and effectively blocks Andrus at SS. Andrus is a bit of an enigma, but the bottom line is that he is a top 50 MILB prospect (Baseball America, Derick McKamey, and Others) who happens to play SS and is blocked. His numbers aren't outstanding this year, but the fact of the matter is that next year as a AA SS he would be expected to playing most of the season at 19 years old and I would project (for what thats worth) plus defense 350 OBP, maybe 400 SLG, 30-40 SBs. Lots of upside, but blocked for the Rangers.

Also, from the Rangers perspective they get a prospect who (from everyone's perspective) the Cards have horribly mismanaged. Reyes in my eyes is a starter with a #2 ceiling that has a decent chance to reach his potential. The downside for the Rangers is that he is a flyball pitcher, but, I don't think that in itself would preclude the Rangers from doing this deal. I say they are all over it...

Why the Cards would do it - Dunc and LaRussa are fed up with Reyes and visa versa for Reyes with Dunc and LaRussa. Elvis Andrus provides another possible solution for SS with unbelievable upside. This type of player is rarely available but in this case, he is. Andrus hasn't played above high A, so the risk with Andrus is high, but the potential reward is the best SS in the minors think Jose Reyes probably with a bit less power...

What does the group think?

Now for Random thoughts:

The Rangers would also potentially include Edison Volozquez in a deal, obviously the Cards would need to give something up, but that would be an interesting addition to the deal above (EV just doesn't seem like the kind of guy the Cards would typically target due to apparent attitude issues)
I officially hate the walk and ABSOLUTELY do not want to see Kip Wells back next year. He reminds me alot of Tomko. Great stuff, but not likely to ever realize his potential because he doesn't seem to want it bad enough..
As an aside I think the walk is why PJ is AA while Ottavino remains in High A.
Rolen isn't right - He is the key to the Cards success in the upcoming seasons. Hopefully the shoulder heals...
How hurt is Jaime Garcia?
Hawk's 2007 season reminds me quite a bit of the wagonmaker's 2004 season. Lets hope Hawk can follow in Wainright's footsteps.
Why are the Cards leaving Craig in High A? DO you think they have an interest in getting Craig a High A MVP award then moving him to Springfield for the playoffs?
How could the Cards justify not calling up Joe Mather and his 30 HRs (and lefty mashing 1000+ OPS by the way...) or Haffpauir (sp?), or Mark Worrell? These guys have thoroughly earned a call up and I will be very upset when their call up goes to the Kelly Stinnett and Miguel Cairos of the world
Other than the obvious 40 man concerns why wouldn't we call up a young CF with + speed and a 920 OPS in AA? Why wouldn't we call up Chris Perez who has blow away the competition type stuff? Do we really have enough 40 man concerns that this is an issue?
Anyone think that Tyler Greene has supersub potential? I don't think he is the SS of the future but 760 OPS in AA after his horrid 2005 ain't bad and he is athletic enough that I would guess he could play any position but pitcher and catcher and would be a great pinch runner on top of being a power bat off the bench.

OK enough of me randomly going on and on. Thanks to Valatan, Erik, Lboros for the constant posting I can barely think of one thing worth posting per week, so your constant informative posts are much appreciated. Go Cards.

Poll

Who would get the better end of a E Andrus for Anthony Reyes and Mark Worrell deal?

Rangers

32 votes

Cards

13 votes

Win-win

10 votes

55 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 45 comments

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Comments

No thanks...

we have Jose Martinez and Pete Kozma. I wouldn't trade Reyes for a shortstop, who is at best, 2 years away, when we already have similar in the system.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 26, 2007 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

See Response Below

My feeling (again for what that is worth) is that in Jose Martinez and Pete Kozma you are looking at two league averagish potential SS. I believe that one of the three (including Ryan) will ultimately reach his league average potential.

In Andrus you have a ceiling that is MUCH higher than those two (again reportedly).

by Lawless on Aug 26, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Kozma has a higher ceiling than Andrus...

personally.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 26, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gotcha

I don't know Kozma well enough to react either way on that. My only data point really is that BA had Kozma in the 40s in terms of 07 draft prospects and he has gotten alot of solid across the boards reports. I'd say that in terms of overall propsects that would put him in the 200ish range. Not a science to be sure...

I guess the flip side is that Rasmus had a very similar initial scouting report out of BA in 2005.

by Lawless on Aug 26, 2007 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another negative

Two years ago you could have flipped either:

Hanley Ramirez or
Joel Guzman

for Elvis Andrus "potential." Obviously from a SS perspective if you would have given up a Reyes type for Ramirez you would be skipping everyday, while if you traded him for Guzman you would probably be jobless.

The job isn't without risk!

by Lawless on Aug 26, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A few things about this post

Andrus is not the best SS prospect in the minors, a lot of people think Reid Brignac and Carlos Triunfel are just as good if not better.
Why do the Rangers want a flyball pitcher, in Reyes?
Elvis is at least 2 years away, and has huge bust potential.
Edinson Volquez is dominating AAA, he argueably has more value than Reyes by himself.
Chris Perez has huge control problems, shouldn't call him up.

by bigboy1234 on Aug 26, 2007 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Quick response

My words I believe were Top 50 prospect and best "potential." The second statement is highly debatable and when I say potential I mean upside potential. Today Brignac is obviously a better prospect (but is untouchable so not mentioned). Triunfel has one good year under his belt and is interesting - I'll give you Reyes for him too!
The Rangers want any living breathing pitcher with #2 starter upside. As you read in my post, that is a negative, but at the end of the day I think the Rangers would take their chances. Just my thought for what that is worth.
Agreed he could very well bust. To me, we have Pete Kozma, Brendan Ryan, and Jose Martinez who collectively will net us at least one league average shortstop. That is why I would be willing to roll the dice on Elvis Andrus. He could bust, but he could also be a top 5 MLB player (see Ramirez, Hanley; Reyes, Jose). And yes, he would take two years, but that is not a bad thing from my perspective.
Agreed, I didn't say they would give him to us in this trade, just a guy I am keeping an eye on b/c recent reports are that the Rangers are unhappy with him. His MLB experience thus far has been disasterous, but he has huge potential. If the Rangers are looking at a change of scenery trade where he was included I think that would be interesting...
Hasn't Izzy had control problems on and off (admittedly not so much this year)? Check out Perez's 2007 BA against, WHIP, K/9, etc. etc. etc. Again, if we are looking to win now and need to strike a batter out or get little to no contact and we want to give our best a taste of the big leagues in Sept I can't think of a rational reason not to call him up...

by Lawless on Aug 26, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

keep reyes

they have a shortstop in ryan

HURRY BACK CARP AND MULDER

by LaRussa4President on Aug 26, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather

dish Reyes for another pitcher similar to him in another organization: that being similar in that it's a solid prospect who has struggled with their respective team. Think along the lines of Ervin Santana or Brandon McCarthy.

Maybe I'm just high on the way Ryan has been playing lately, but I would be perfectly content if this offseason we only upgraded on pitching, but that is a definite: we need to improve our pitching. This is a good offense, with a lot of guys showing promise (Ludwick, Ankiel, Ryan, and more in our minors), but they're not going to win games if we continue to have the league's worst starting pitching.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Aug 26, 2007 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yep

Spinning Reyes for a "change of scenery" pitcher would be nice, but, my guess is that if you were getting Duncan/LaRussa's approval on a trade they probably would have a slant towards a veteran starter, then you end up trading Reyes to the White Sox for someone like Javier Vazquez (which isn't exactly what I would be looking for). I would do either the McCarthy or Santana deals immediately but don't have a lot of faith in LaDunc to work with those young Arms either. My 08 rotation.

Carp (when it counts)
Wainright
Mulder
Free Agent (Say Silva)
Looper
Hawk/Maroth/Pinero/PJ Walters

I would also trade Looper in a minute for a decent low minors prospect... I too am a PJ Walters believer...

by Lawless on Aug 26, 2007 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

re: Looper

Oh me too, he's even with JEnc on my "please trade" list. It's not that neither of them are bad, I just feel that they're combined contracts for $12 mil next year could get us a lot more. Plus, they're both easily replaceable (especially Juan, who we've recently proven that we have plenty of extra outfielders to take over his spot).

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Aug 26, 2007 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I definitely would like to keep Reyes, but I'm

not convinced current management really wants him. Ervin Santana is an extreme flyball pitcher-he might have the same problems adapting to the Cards way that Reyes has had.
Maybe take a look at Minnesota's Scott Baker for a trade.
If they were willing to deal with the Cubs, maybe try to get one of their lefty starters like Sean Marshall. There would probably be other players involved for that deal to work, but Pinella has a whole different idea of what a well pitched game looks like then LaDunc, and he'd be happy to work with him--he's more coachable than Marquis, that's for sure, and they have been able to work around Lilly's flyball tendencies. Would they be willing to risk him turning it around while on the Cubs mound?
They might be smarter to just keep him around, because he's almost there, and he's definitely a better option than Kip Wells-he's 30 already....and I'm not sold on Joel Pinearo just yet...his home run rate so far is frightful.

by jillsinmo on Aug 26, 2007 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I never really answered your question.....

no, I would not trade Reyes straight up for Andrus. He is not far enough into his career to know if you really have something. LaDuncetty prefers veterans to youngsters anyway, and I'm not sure that anyone but Michael Young would fill an immediate need---and Reyes certainly doesn't get you him by himself.

by jillsinmo on Aug 26, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We're not over .500 right now

1 game under is as close as we've been in some time. To what degree Tony deserves credit for the improved play of late is worthy of debate, but we're still below .500.

by chuckb on Aug 26, 2007 6:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pythagorean

I would submit that if you ran the numbers with this team without Carp from the beginning of the year, this is about where they should be. I give Tony alot of credit for the six out of seven playoff appearances. Whether he deserves it or not, we'll never know, but one thing he does do is shuffle thing up and call his players out when he thinks they deserve it. I think those are necessary evils in a great manager (say like Whitey with Keith Hernandez for example).

Again, not saying he makes all the difference but if you ran our Pythagorean record I think we are playing more than 5 games above that and that is how I "judge" managers. Flawed as it is...

by Lawless on Aug 26, 2007 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reyes in a package

for Renteria or Tejeda would be great. Otherwise, I hope he's untradable. (is that a word?)

Hello, playoff race

by Alxfritz on Aug 26, 2007 7:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree completely

Package Reyes for Renteria Braves might want Yunel to play everyday next year.

by Calhoun on Aug 26, 2007 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

do that and you don't get a pitcher...

... Renteria will add ~ $8 million to the payroll, which would push payroll up around $95-100 mil (assuming no Looper/Enc dump, and Izzy's option is exercised).

we could make up some of that by letting Miles/Gooch/Springer go, but then you've got a rotation of Mulder/Wainwright/Looper/Reyes/Maroth/Pineiro(if we pick up his option) until Carp comes back.

unless, of course, DeWitt and co. expands payroll.

p.s. why in the hell are we still paying Rincon $1.5 million? what a horrible signing.

by kindred on Aug 26, 2007 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No it doesn't

The Braves are only on the hook for $5.6 M of 08 contract ($3M from Red Sox) and the $3M buyout on his 09 season is paid in full by the Red Sox, again.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 26, 2007 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree.

by boog on Aug 26, 2007 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dunno

I like the idea of getting a potential stud shortstop in the relatively high minors for our system, but Reyes has been around a top 50 prospect a couple times and it seems like trading a major-league ready pitcher with #2 potential for a shortstop that is in AA, when we seriously need middle infielders and pitchers who are cheap and we need them NOW doesn't seem like the greatest deal.

If it was someone who would at least be ready for 2009, I'd probably think more highly of this, because I'd like to see a mass migration of our top prospects all in one year, like Perez, Rasmus and (whoever would be gotten in a potential trade).

I also am not sure I buy the idea of going after Renteria though. IT doesn't fulfill the need of getting cheaper, so that we can afford to fill in other spots with top-tier guys. I guess Renteria is top-tierish, but unless the Braves took on at least SOME of the contract(or is Boston already doing this?), I dunno about either one.

If we were going to dump Reyes, I'd want to see them dump him for someone like a previously mentioned(a month ago, maybe?) Carlos Quentin or some other player who was at least in AAA.

Or maybe try to swap problem pitchers with Anaheim and try a Reyes for Santana trade.

I don't know if any of my thoughts are plausible, but it seems like we have needs coming up quickly with a bunch of our guys getting old and becoming free agents very soon, and picking up a guy who is probably coming up in 2010 at the earliest and has no track record above A ball seems risky for someone like Reyes.

by mtalken on Aug 26, 2007 8:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't trade Reyes for a position player.

There is a shortage of starting pitchers that are free agents this offseason, and we already have 3 people who would do well in the middle infield next year (ryan, edgar gonzalez, hoffpair), and one who the cards will keep no matter what (kennedy). I think the only reason we need to be trading reyes, (besides an offer we can't refuse) would be a package for a great starting pitcher.

Stop being cheap & bring in Zambrano!!

by dunc4life on Aug 26, 2007 9:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You are right, there is a shortage of starting

pitching out there, and just about every team is looking for one or even two. I know everyone has high hopes for Mulder and Carpenter next year, but we really don't know yet what Mulder's going to be like and Carpenter's surgery takes 12-18 months to recover from. They need to be prepared if he is not ready to come back until 2009. I think he'll probably be back at the end of 2008, but they have to be well stocked at starting pitcher---if everything works out best case scenario, then we have a trade chip with whatever team needs a starter--and it would be at the time of the year when we can fleece someone.....

by jillsinmo on Aug 26, 2007 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

PJ Walters

Walters is a mystery. He doesn't have great velocity (lives around 89 mph) but he has great command and a changeup that has screwball movement.

He's burning his way through the farm system. He'll be 23 on Opening Day next year. I'd like to see him finish 08 strong for Springfield and then start next season in Memphis. Perhaps he can be a spot starter in 08 for the Cardinals or even an injury replacement if need be.

What's impressive is his ability to throw strikes. Coming into tonight, I believe he had a 3:1 SO:BB ratio. Whether or not he is able to fool hitters at the big league level, who knows. However, if he can throw strikes, I think he can be effective and avoid the 'big inning'.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 26, 2007 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think there is anything mysterious here

If you look at the 300 win club, most didn't throw 90+.

Movement > Velocity

Think for a second about the short list of pithers that had great movement, control, and threw a changeup.

That list would start with Maddux, Glavin, Hoffman, Moyer, and Tudor.

Does he have that kind of control and movement? I don't know, but it would be dumb to write the guy off just because he doesn't throw 95.

We need to get past the obsession with how hard a pticher throws, where he throws it, and which pitch it is. Its this simple.

If a pitch and locationg is getting hammered, its bad. Regardless of what a pitcher is throwing, if its in the zone and the hitters are not doing anything with it, its a good pitch.

by DriverZn on Aug 26, 2007 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I merely meant he is a mystery

because it's unknown if his 'stuff' is just good enough to be fooling minor league hitters or if MLB players will have trouble squaring up that screwball changeup.

What is encouraging is that he appears to be getting stronger with each outing in Springfield.

I agree. I want a pitcher that will fill up the strikezone with 'his pitches' and make hitters take good swings to beat him. I'm tired of watching pitchers put undue stress on themselves by putting extra men on.

My obsession isn't 'gee, that was REALLY fast', it's more that a 95 mph can often times hide a mistake or two during a game.

I'm a Walter's supporter and I've only listened to his last 3 games and followed his stat lines. I'd love to see the kid pitch with my own eyes to make a better judgement of what he may be capable of.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 26, 2007 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One more thing about Walters

and I'll stop for a bit:

Since his shaky 1st start at Springfield (AA), PJ has thrown up these numbers:
IP ER H 2B HR SO BB ERA WHIP 29.2 7 28 3 3 29 10 2.16 1.30

Last night's game was against that same Arkansas team he made his debut against. They ran out an almost identical lineup and Walters was able to improve.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 27, 2007 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

pitchers that have movement on

their pitches are considerably more common than pitchers that throw 95mph. I know you are throwing out the 300+ win club as anecdotal evidence but that's such a flawed line in the sand. I'm not saying that a pitcher needs to throw 95mph but your are underestimating the importance of at least average velocity.

Walters is a different kind of pitcher than say Chris Lambert. He survives on commanding his pitches and movement. There's nothing wrong with that; it's just harder to quantify movement than velocity. If we were able to say that player has 80turquads of movement on his changeup but were only able to say his velocity was good, than the prospect community would have been obsessed with movement for years and velocity would have been set aside as the ugly stepchild.

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Aug 27, 2007 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then perhaps the prospect community

should focus on movement and command more than velocity, so that we begin to weed out this deluge of hard throwers who can't pitch a lick.

Maybe it's time for a team to take a radical approach and focus more on pitchers who can pitch to location and trust their 'stuff' if it gets hit than guys just flinging 96 mph 4 seamers up there.

Even a guy like Koko Cordero, his velocity is ridiculous. He just has absolutely no command on any of his pitches. Once teams started laying off his slider that never really crosses the plate, he became irratic and very hittable.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 27, 2007 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The point I was trying to make

was that without any real way to quantify movement, we are left with subjective analysis. It's not like players that throw hard are tossing 95 mph straight fastballs. They may have as much movement as someone who doesn't throw as hard.

A lot of teams believe they can tweak some mechanics or make small changes leading the hard-thrower to develop some modicum of command.

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Aug 27, 2007 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My thought

Is you evaluate movement using results. Command is a huge equalizer, and if PJ has the command/makeup that his stats suggest then at minimum we have a solid #4 starter on our hands. I think my favorite stat has become BB/9 and obviously K/BB.

Downside is Trey Hearne (unfortunately), but the upside is Glavine, Maddux, Wells, Moyer, Rogers, Buehrle (sp?) and plenty of other pitchers pitching right now who survive on not leaving balls over the middle of the plate. No doubt that is hard to do, but if you find a guy who is doing just that in AA (with 1.5 years in pro ball no less), that is an interesting pitcher...

Again, would it be better if there was a direct evaluation like MPH - Heck yes - But you can't discount the results...

by Lawless on Aug 27, 2007 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good news on this front

The new pitch tracking system being installed at the MLB level will in time give us exactly this info for movement. We need to learn to understand the data still.

by DriverZn on Aug 27, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Possible Reyes trade

I guess I am in agreement that Reyes may not have a future in St. Louis. I honestly really have no opinion on the guy. If we keep him I'm ok and if we trade him I won't be irrate.

However watching the series between the Braves this weekend made me realize one thing. The Braves really need a starter for next year. What position do the braves have an established veteran who is blocking a young stud? May the Braves be looking to trade Renteria this offseason for pitching help and then let Escobar be the everyday starter? I think this is a definite possibility. I wouldn't mind at all bringing Renteria back for a couple years to let our young prospects age in the minors. Not for sure who else would be going in a trade but renteria for reyes and a couple other guys is good deal for both I believe. Plus the Cards and Braves have a good trading possibility. I'm not saying that this is going to happen or ever should happen but I see it as a actual possibility.

by stl3bagger on Aug 26, 2007 11:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Renteria should have never left...

I was sad when he went to Boston. He is horrible year there made me feel better. When he started tearing it up with Atlanta I was sad again. He needs to come home.

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Aug 27, 2007 1:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Buying High

Let me start this off by saying that if we could get Renteria for "market" for a SS that could pull a 300 BA and 340 OBP with maybe 420 SLG, I would do that no doubt.

The problem is that his market is going to be set based upon what he has done this season, which imho is buying high..........

That said, would I trade Reyes straight up for Renteria - Hecks to the yes.

by Lawless on Aug 27, 2007 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let me clarify

Hit post too soon. I would if I HAD to trade Reyes, which is the situation I believe we are in...

by Lawless on Aug 27, 2007 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Would rather see Willis..

I would rather see them burn Reyes trading him to Florida for a Willis combo along with B Anderson, and S Schumacher. They want a pticher and catcher I hear and I think they still need a CF.

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Aug 27, 2007 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Reyes for Willis straight up

would be fair at this point. Willis has either gone 'stupid' or his elbow is about to come unglued.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 27, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What do you

Call Reyes' season? No way would Florida do that. We would need to throw in 2 prospects or maybe just Reyes and Duncan.

Come on You Redbirds--Mike Shannon

by BluesDrummer85 on Aug 27, 2007 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think either is pitching very good

at this point. Hence, the wash.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 27, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

for what its worth

Aren't Mulder 05 and Willis 08 the same pitcher?

Hopefully if we do that Reyes doesn't equal Haren...

by Lawless on Aug 27, 2007 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, oh.....

You do know Willis has now had TWO sub-par years, has pitched a lot of innings at a very young age, and has some very strange mechanics.
He is also extremely popular with the fan base. I'm not so sure they are eager to let him go. They may be ready to let Scott Olson go....would we want the baggage that comes with him? Or maybe getting out of Florida would do him some good? (You all ever read Carl Hiaason?)
I'm for sticking with Reyes for now.....there's been plenty bad there this year, but there has been some good too--I imagine there are some pitching coaches that would love to take a crack at him. My gut says he's gone, and it probably will be for a "fixable" veteran pitcher or someone returning from an injury like Benson who wasn't all that good before the injury.

by jillsinmo on Aug 27, 2007 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mulder=Willis no sale

Mulder was a better pitcher, doing it in the AL to boot. Dan Haren never had one of the 5 worst records in all of baseball nor a 5.20+ ERA.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 27, 2007 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

Dan Haren 2003:

72 IP 83H 22BB 5+ ERA?

Seems pretty similar to Reyes to me?

I was actually expecting someone to argue that Willis was > Mulder not the other way around...

Either way, at best they both could pass for #2s but are probably better suited as #3s...IMHO

by Lawless on Aug 27, 2007 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dan Haren wasn't traded in 2004

he was traded AFTER the 2004 season. He was also 23 years old at the time, 2 full years younger than Reyes.

Reyes over the last 2 years has thrown 185 IP. He's got a solid 5.21 ERA over that stretch. When Haren was in his second full year of being a starter, he was throwing sub 4.00 ERAs in the American League. Reyes is getting worse.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 27, 2007 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs