Mulder's rehab and who's spot is he taking?

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 17, 2007 9:09 AM EDT Comment 25 comments

I thought there should be a diary on this

Not a great result, but very, very encouraging to hear is fastball was clocked at 91. He was consistently at 86-7 post June last year, and after two or three more rehab starts - who knows - he may have it up to the 94-5 range of the Mark Mulder of old.

I figure this diary should also debate the other big question - who will Mulder replace?

My vote is Loop, but knowing Tony it will probably be Reyes. :-)

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Nice

I`m very optimistic about Mulder I cant believe he`s already got his Mph up to 91 that's great. You never know maybe next year we'll have a true Ace after all.
I cant wait to see him back in the show.

by Calhoun on Aug 17, 2007 10:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Looper

seems the most logical to me. We signed the guy to be a reliever, and he knows how to be a reliever, and frankly, I would trust him more than the three other guys as a reliever (save Wainwright). Plus, his endurance seems to be fading leading into September.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Aug 17, 2007 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I got a bad feeling about today's start....

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 17, 2007 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I think Looper would be most effective out of the bullpen for the stretch run. He has the experience and it will keep his arm fresh.

"Your mom likes Albert Pujols" - Happy Joe

by fatbellyjefferson on Aug 17, 2007 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looper or Reyes

both have had their velocity drop and that worries me.

I'd say Looper right now. But Mulder isn't coming back right now. We'll have to wait and see who stays more consistent and efficient and who is easier for batters to figure out in the long haul.

Reyes is cheaper and has always been groomed to be a starter, so I hope it's Looper not Reyes.

by nycardfan on Aug 17, 2007 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't see Mulder in the rotation

during the stretch run this year. He would have to post 2 or 3 impressive outings on his rehab to be given consideration. The only way I see him getting a start on the big club is if we have either fallen out of the race again or we clinch early!! It would be irresponsible to put him back out there in September with the pennant on the line if there are any other reasonable options. An idea that I am warming to is putting him in the bullpen. I think you could steal a few innings that way and maybe he could replace Flores or Johnson if they are unhealthy and/or unproductive.

by lefty fan on Aug 17, 2007 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Allright

but at least give him a couple more rehabs to prove himself.

by cardsfaninmass on Aug 17, 2007 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

debatable

I really think it depends on how the next 2-3 times through the rotation go. If Looper can only go 5 innings each outing, if Reyes starts giving up gopher balls left and right, if...anything happens at all to make it look like we need a change, Mulder should replace whomever it is!

stlfan

by stlfan on Aug 17, 2007 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tony has been known

To favor veterans over rookies. (although arguable) So even if Reyes pitches decent, I could see Mulder taking his spot.

I''m a Jenius!

by gibbons on Aug 17, 2007 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

On the official site

Dave Duncan believes Mark Mulder will return to the Cardinals September 1st.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 8:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I thought he was supposed to throw 50 pitches

and he threw 38 pitches. I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves by talking about who he'll replace in the rotation. It sounds like he needs more time. It's a tough injury to work through, and many pitchers never make it back. I think everyone needs to be cautious and if he is able to go back into the rotation next year to have a back up plan if he is unable to throw a lot of innings. If someone has to be removed from the rotation for Mulder it will be Reyes. LaDuncetty always pushes him out of the rotation if they can find anyone that's not him to put in there.

by jillsinmo on Aug 17, 2007 9:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No

He was supposed to throw 45, he threw 38. More than likely it was fatigue as he expressed no pain.

He hit 91 in the 1st inning, 90 in the second.

He'll throw 50-60 pitches this next time out, then if he has no problems he will throw closer to a real game. From there, he can either have a AAA start or just start with the big league club.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 17, 2007 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another related question to throw out there

When Wellemeyer returns, do we have a spot for him?

I''m a Jenius!

by gibbons on Aug 17, 2007 11:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He won't come back until September 1st

book it. So there is always a place for him in the bullpen.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 18, 2007 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

After the Cub's games

definitely replace Reyes.

We're not only back with the 5 run inning (composed of walks, hitting people with pitches, and grand slams), but also with his making lame excuses as though he only made one error (Cards MLB story).

If he can't admit his errors, he won't learn from this kind of game. And we can't afford anymore of these.

by nycardfan on Aug 18, 2007 11:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Here's Reyes' response after the game

"It was just that one bad pitch," Reyes said. "I lost command a little bit and started walking some guys, but it just came down to that one pitch." (MLB)

Give me a break. It takes a lot more than one pitch to walk guys and hit a guy.

by nycardfan on Aug 18, 2007 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look at the rest of the game

If you take out that inning, he only allowed two hits and no walks in five innings. One bad inning, but the rest of the performance wasn't too bad.

Give Jose a chance!

by warpig2003 on Aug 20, 2007 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What?

What the hell are you talking about? Reyes said he lost control, walked a couple of guys, and made one bad pitch. He makes a good pitch there, he gets the out, the inning's over, and he did a fantastic job of escaping a jam. He makes the bad pitch, see you later, four runs on the board. Lots of pitchers' outings come down to one pitch. You either get the big out, or you get tagged. You can't get everyone out, every time. So yes, that one pitch was the one that it came down to.

I'm sorry, but complaining that Reyes is making some sort of lame excuse by saying that if he could have made one good pitch to get out of a jam, his outing would have been good, is one of the most ridiculous, willfully ignorant statements I've ever seen made on this board. And I don't say that lightly.

To hell with your spoiled baby! I need those shoes!

by the red baron on Aug 20, 2007 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reyes' frustating patterns

First, Reyes' failure last night fits into a pattern of performance this year so its significance goes beyond a one pitch-one game argument. He still has not proven that he can get out of jams consistently.

Likewise, Reyes' comments fit into a pattern of comments that convey a possible ignorance of or indifference to why he fails so often in these kinds of situations. Before being sent down to Memphis, Reyes said he'd been told that he needs to start figuring out what he's doing wrong in games and find a way to get out of threatening situations. Reyes admitted he had not been intereted in pre-game or post-game analysis and would need to begin doing that if he wanted to come up and stay in the majors. His comments last night showed no progress in that area.

Second, my posting above mirrors Matthew Leach's response to Reyes' post-game comments (specifically the quotation I cited about one pitch landing the team in trouble):

"While it's true that one swing made the difference between one run and five, it's equally true that Reyes dug his own hole. He hit Jason Kendall with a pitch to lead off the third. With one out, he walked Ryan Theriot. After Derrek Lee's two-out RBI single broke the ice, Reyes walked Aramis Ramirez to load the bases. Reyes was pitching around Ramirez, which turned out to be a mistake. He threw three offspeed pitches to Ward, going 1-1 before the left-handed hitter stayed with a curveball and pounded it to left-center to break the game open. Reyes left the pitch up in the strike zone and over the plate, and that's the definition of a hitter's pitch." (MLB)

I don't mind joining Leach in the land of ignorance, if that's your reaction to such assessments of Reyes' comment.

A final note--Wainwright and Reyes are complete opposites with respect to these problems. Wainwright has established a pattern of being able to get out of jams and has expressed repeatedly after games that didn't go well for him that he knew what he had done wrong with each of his pitches and was going to learn from those mistakes for the future.

by nycardfan on Aug 20, 2007 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oops

meant to say two nights ago. Seems like last night since that game, being normally one we would win with 4 runs (if properly umpired), is still stinging.

by nycardfan on Aug 20, 2007 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

come on!

I think this is silly - talk about over-analyzing someone's comments. I'm sure Reyes knows he dug his own hole, and just because he didn't explicitly say "whoa, I dug my own hole!" you assume that he's not fessing up to his mistakes.

Here's a pattern of performance for you: Since returning from the minors (sample size is 30 IP), Anthony has a 3.9 ERA, and a 1.06 WHIP. He hasn't been at the level of a prime Pedro Martinez (which is what I think some of you expect from him) but for his salary, his recent numbers have been pretty damned good. Hopefully, they are more indicative of his abilities than the numbers he put up before he was sent down.

There were 2 outs when he gave up the grand slam, which could have played into his comments. With one pitch, he could have gotten out of the inning. Heh, now I'm over-analyzing.

by jdub176 on Aug 20, 2007 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look,

at this point, all it comes down to is:
Is Anthony Reyes one of the five best starters the Cards can run out there at this point? Maybe it's naive to think that he has the potential to pitch fewer five-run, five-inning starts as he matures in the majors. Maybe it's naive to say that even a moderately good pitcher gives up a grand slam once in a great while. Fine. Even if he never improves another whit, I think he's a fifth starter on this team and would be on a whole bunch of other teams in the majors.

What are the other options? I'd rather hear who should be pitching Reyes' starts--WonderBrad?--than endless amorphous discussions of Reyes just not being "good enough" without any benchmark to justify that claim.

by lordsummer on Aug 21, 2007 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or, I might add,

basing it off of what he says in interviews. I could care less what he says to reporters. He could say "How'm I doin', Edna?" His butt is not paid to be eloquent and rhapsodize over his iniquities in postgame blurbs.

by lordsummer on Aug 21, 2007 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oi.

I am joining in with taking this diary way off the rails. Mea culpa.

Let me try to patch it up by asking a few questions:

HOW long will it have been since Mulder last pitched a major league game?

Is he really doing well enough in rehab to think that he'll be effective in the majors this year? I'm all for him pitching in the minors for the rest of the year at this point, unless he's really obviously ready to go.

Do you REALLY want him to just get thrown into the rotation, I assume Reyes' spot knowing whom we're dealing with, or should he be eased in via the bullpen?

by lordsummer on Aug 21, 2007 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have my doubts that Mulder will be ready to go

at all this year. Look, Pedro had the same surgery, is closer to being ready, and EVEN he ain't ready. And in case you don't know anything about Pedro, he LIVES to pitch! I just don't see Mulder in the rotation at all this year. This kind of surgery has more often than not been a career killer-hoping Mulder makes it back and him actually making it back are entirely two different things. Reyes will come out of the rotation regardless, so stop bitching about it. I suspect the Cards will make one of those Reyes for Garciaparra deals before the playoff rosters have to be set-and will live to regret it. But the fans will be happy.........

by jillsinmo on Aug 21, 2007 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs