Little League World Series/Curves

by joker24 on Aug 10, 2007 9:40 PM EDT

Watching an inning of this is enough to make me laugh...or cry depending on my mood. Currently what appears to be a ~5'11 12 year old is throwing 75 despite shitty mechanics and is not surprisingly chewing up some team. Pitcher's frame, velocity good as is but teach him how to actually throw and he's at 80+ easily: what could be a potential career ahead of him. Combine 75 from 40someodd feet with a pretty nasty slider and I'd be very surprised if runs are scored here. Despite hitters having no chance at his fastball as is, he's throwing at least one slider in most AB's that's getting waved at by these kids.

Which brings me to my point: this kid has no chance at having all his original elbow ligaments and shoulder pieces when he's 20 if he keeps pitching. I see the word "tear" in his future. But man he sure is great at 12.

#1. Please parents, do not teach your kids sliders/curves till they get to high school minimum. If for nothing else don't do it for my sake, I like watching good pitchers in the big leagues.

The reaction time on a 75 mph pitch at whatever distance they are at is equivalent to that of a 98 mph fastball. Against a 12 year old? No chance. If your kid can't dominate Little League hitters by just commanding fastball/change...your kid isn't that good so spare them the future pain of surgery...the hitters aren't that good.

Anecdotally yet not surprisingly, BY FAR the best futures lie ahead of guys I know who didn't throw any of that crap till they were 17. They didn't need to earlier and are better now for it. Those are the guys that are getting paid now to throw balls at home plate. On the other hand, almost all the 'Johnny 12-year-old CurveBallers' ended up with a noodle arm by their freshman year in high school if not earlier. Though I will say they were ridiculous in 6th grade. Is that what you want to look back and see?

#2. Find someone who knows mechanics and learn. I am going to be conservative when I say 98% of little leaguers throw with terrible mechanics...taught to them by parents and pitching "coaches". Which brings me to: I went through all kinds of pitching coaches but when I later learned how to actually throw I realized those guys knew nothing (I'm not being hyperbolic). Don't trust a guy because he charges $50/hr. If they don't mention "arm action", they probably don't know what they are doing. Mechanics are far far far from a precise science, but the instinctual way of throwing, at least that taught to the 98% is definitively bad as well as inefficient.

Sorry for that rant, but I can't stand watching these guys slowly blow up their arms pitch by pitch.

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I agree and disagree

While I agree with you about throwing any pitch that causes the elbow to twist, I disagree with changing a kids "natural" mechanics.

I think we adults interfere too much with a kid's baseball development. First of all, for a kid to really buy in to changing their mechanics to something "unnatural" they need to see failure. It sounds to me that the kid you are referring to has not reached the level of competition where he has experienced failure.

Let a kid be a kid and have fun playing the game.

Just my 2 cents...

by Schnick24 on Aug 10, 2007 10:19 PM EDT 0 recs

Point being

If you are going to have your kid go to a pitching coach (which is ubiquitous nowadays), actually find someone who knows what he's doing.

Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Aug 11, 2007 2:10 AM EDT up 0 recs

Too Early

I agree that they are throwing breaking stuff too early. There is actually a point in an elbows growth that the bone finally develops where you are doing less damage to it. This usually happens around 16.

The funny thing is that the kids you see pitching during the LLWS are never going to amount to much. I personally think that the best pitching prospects are very good athletes that develop late. I think this is because pitching (fastballs, curves, whatever) in general stunts the development of the arm in some way.

I am one of the pitching coaches that you describe and I do think it is important to change a kids mechanics from his natural motion. You can't do it quickly, but you should do it. One little change takes about 30 days to take until it become natural.

by BigJawnMize on Aug 11, 2007 8:08 AM EDT 0 recs

Reluctant to change

Do you find kids who are having tremendous success reluctant to change anything? My experience is you have to wait for the rest of the "world" to catch up with the player before he is willing to change.

Of course, I'm talking about the cream of the crop kids, not the 3rd best pitcher on a little league team.

by Schnick24 on Aug 11, 2007 12:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

Well

It's not like you go in and take a kid, show him arm action, hips, firm front side etc all in the same day and say go get em. Like he said, it's just small tweaks along the way. Small tweaks add up quickly into building a motion that is right for the individual as well as inching nearer to being fundamentally sound. The earlier you start shaping the proper mechanics, the better off the kid is in the present and more importantly the future.

Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Aug 11, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up 0 recs

well....

in my opinion, its ok to throw maybe 8-12 a game. But yes I do agree its to early to be breaking off anymore than that

23 homers 71 rbis, yeah, albert's having an off year

by PujolsFan4Life5 on Aug 11, 2007 11:11 AM EDT 0 recs

You're wrong

I'm not sure that your gut feeling of an opinion means much.

The medical community has put guidelines out there. Curveballs and sliders are downright dangerous before the age of 15.

by silent_bob on Aug 12, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

joker, I agree with you

fastball/change should be enough until a kid gets to be 14-15. In fact, you could teach them a 2 seam and a 4 seam fastball if two pitches isn't enough. They'll be better prepared to pitch off their fastball, as they'll do later in high school and beyond, but they'll do less damage to their arms as well.

by houstoncardinal on Aug 11, 2007 11:49 PM EDT 0 recs

My son wasn't taught any breaking pitch until

he was 16--and he went through all kinds of preliminary (muscle memory exercises?) things-I remember him tossing empty aluminum cans in the basement. Whatever, it was a long time before he ever actually practiced from a mound. I don't know if our guy was good, but he was all about arm action, repeatable delivery, and proper technique. My son has been pitching since 11, and he used a curve successfully in his junior year of high school. He's still pitching, and he's never had an arm injury-he's 20 now, and his curve is his best pitch. So I guess our guy was good.....that, and my son works hard on his game too

by jillsinmo on Aug 11, 2007 11:56 PM EDT 0 recs