What to do with the outfield?

by silent_bob on Aug 10, 2007 1:51 PM EDT

Alright, now that Slick Rick is up for the rest of 2007, with my mad math skillz, I count SIX outfielders on the active roster. Now I know that 75% of VeB would like to trade JuanE for a bag of balls. And I might be with you there, if the other team takes all of his salary.

But lets just say this doesn't happen and this team continues to play within striking distance in the Central. Fellow Birdos, answer me this:
-Who do you play where against lefties? Against righties?
-Is Edmonds a platoon player now?
-Do you sit Juan against righties? Why?
-Does Ankiel play every day or platoon?
-Is left field now a Duncan/Ludwick platoon?

Whaddya think?

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Ankiel, Duncan, and Edmonds need to start...

every game from now on. IMO, platooning players does not work.

Boy a frosty cold Budweiser would be great about now.

by theguuch99 on Aug 10, 2007 1:44 PM EDT reply actions

Agreed

But then we do need to trade Juan. If we're going to bench him for the rest of this season, that means he won't be starting here next year either. Trade him now while he has some value.

"Your mom likes Albert Pujols" - Happy Joe

by fatbellyjefferson on Aug 10, 2007 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Wasting runs

platooning players does not work

This is categorically wrong when players show true talent level platoon splits.

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Aug 10, 2007 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions

What I do...

Platoon Juan and Jimmy in CF.

Ankiel plays everyday, if you look at his minor league splits he posted a higher BA and OPS vs lefties.

Duncan plays vs every RHP and gets his days off against the tough lefties.

Ludwick can spot start anywhere and is the teams best pinch hitter.

So is the last guy off the bench.

That is how I do it, but you know TLR this is setup perfectly for him.

3 righties...3 lefties. He's in hog heaven.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Aug 10, 2007 1:52 PM EDT reply actions

I like it

I also hope that Jimmy/Juan end up as a CF platoon and Ankiel gets extended time against both LHP and RHP. I see no true minor league platoon split in Ankiel's stats.

by silent_bob on Aug 10, 2007 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Only 1 problem

I like where you are going here, but doesn't Ludwick have a dramatic REVERSE split?

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Aug 10, 2007 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Well

I don't have him platooning with anyone. I'd just give him a spot start from now and again to keep him fresh.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Aug 10, 2007 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions

West coast teams need a bat

How about him going to the Pads, Dodgers(deep farm system maybe we can get something decent), Angels( again deep farm system) or Mariners???

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Aug 10, 2007 1:54 PM EDT reply actions

The Pads

could possibly use Juan with Bradley's injury problems. Possibly the Dodgers if they don't have the confidence in Kemp/Ethier yet. However I don't see how he fits in with the Angels or M's.

"Your mom likes Albert Pujols" - Happy Joe

by fatbellyjefferson on Aug 10, 2007 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Can't trade for prospects

We need to be looking for players that will clear waivers if we are to make a trade, right?

by Valatan on Aug 10, 2007 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions

As long as...

they're not on the 40-man the don't have to clear waivers. Maybe LA (with their deep farm system) has someone that they will lose this offseason in the rule-5 that they don't have room for on the 40-man. Surely we have some guys on the 40-man that we can risk...Hanson, Keisler, Falkenburg...

by cardzfanbub on Aug 10, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Ankiel will start all games

LaRussa has said that Ankiel will start pretty much every game from here on out. I see him sitting every once in a while but not often.

Duncan/Ludwick, Edmonds/Ankiel, Ankiel/Juan with So as a Spiezio replacement (outfield and infield utility) is how I see it playing out.

by StLHugo on Aug 10, 2007 2:03 PM EDT reply actions

tough call

i'm not sure what i would do...i guess just straight platoon it unless a player shows a particular split vs. a certain pitcher. as much as i dont like juan, he isnt playing that poorly. he is basically doing what was expected of him.

by dmb60614 on Aug 10, 2007 2:09 PM EDT reply actions

One idea I think

it is worth looking into with Spiezio down is dropping Ludwick in favor of brining someone like Hoffpauir. Now the team may not see the need to do this, but I think with a combo of Eck, Kennedy and Mile in the infield, Hoffpauir or Ryan would be more useful to the club than 6 outfielders. With Juan, So and the clubs futility against lefties combined with the need to get Rick playing time to properly evaluate his usefulness for 2008, I say Ludwick be optioned back to AAA for Hoffpauir or Ryan.

As for the outfield situation, with Ludwick demoted, it is easier to get a full rotation of 4 outfielders between Duncan, Ankiel, Juan and Edmonds, with each playing between 4 and 5 games a week, with So around to spell each as necessary (playing 2-3 games a week) and make sure that Duncan and Ankiel get the opportunity to gain experience against tough lefties (as it makes sense to bench Edmonds in most such cases).

by JMedwick on Aug 10, 2007 2:29 PM EDT reply actions

One other thing

While I was not and am not a fan of the Juan signing, he has been a nice offensive bost this season and should continue to get playing time. If the Cards were being honest with themselves, the best offensive outfield the Cards can put out there is Ankiel, Juan, and Duncan.

by JMedwick on Aug 10, 2007 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Not a bad idea

It would suck for Ludwick but we could bring him back up in a few weeks when the rosters expand.

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Aug 10, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Ludwick's out of options

We'd have to DFA him.

If anybody goes down, I'd guess it would be Wonderbrad. We've got an off-day Monday and the rotation looks to have settled into a nice rhythm. Wouldn't be too risky to go with a short bullpen.

by liam on Aug 10, 2007 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Hmm

Once again this brings up a continual problem for the organization: it has too many of the same type of player. Ludwick is valuable, but how different is he really than Stanhovia at this point. Same with Skip and So? My point is simply that maybe DFAing Ludwick would not be the worst move if his role within the organization could be easily replaced.

by JMedwick on Aug 10, 2007 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions

That's a good way to rip the heart out of the team

Ludwick has brought energy and help win a few games. I think it would bum the club out. I wonder how many Cards wouldn't care if Juan was on the team or not tommorow.

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Aug 10, 2007 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe

Maybe not. Tell me honestly, would the team be better off with Ryan or Hoffpauir than Ludwick. I say yes.

by JMedwick on Aug 10, 2007 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree but...

The kid has done nothing to play himself off the team. He keeps coming through in the clutch. I like him on this team. If we could send him down I would do that but I don't want to lose him by giving him the DFA shuffle.

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Aug 10, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Stavinoha? Are you kidding?

The poor guy has a .686 OPS at AA this season. Since his first-week-in-MLB-since-2005 adjustment period (5/6 to 5/12), Ludwick has maintained an .828 OPS against major league pitchers (and .872 after 2 weeks of adjustment).

Skip and So are 4th outfielders; Ludwick has an upside roughly equivalent to Carlos Lee, except that he's cheap, has speed on the basepaths, and plays excellent defense in all 3 OF positions. Even his walk rate has been improving. DFAing him would be about the silliest thing WJ could possibly do.

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 10, 2007 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Stavinoha

is flunking AAA, not AA. Oh for an "edit post" button.

"This is a ball club with issues." -Nats announcers (talking about the Cardinals)

by SleepyCA on Aug 10, 2007 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions

I read somewhere

That La Russa was planning on using Taguchi in the infield more between now and when rosters expand. Jose O has his work cut out for him.

by liam on Aug 10, 2007 2:50 PM EDT reply actions

So Taguchi

can play a so-so (pun!) second base, from what I can remember.

Boooo-urns.

by Alxfritz on Aug 10, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions

So at 2nd

He botched a pretty routine double play ball from Kennedy in the blowout at the hands of the Brewers a few weeks ago.

by liam on Aug 10, 2007 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions

See

he fits right in with the rest of the middle infield.

Boooo-urns.

by Alxfritz on Aug 10, 2007 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Ludwick seems to be one of those guys

who can PH, not just hit when he starts. Guys like that are extremely valuable to TLR. I wouldn't bet against Ludwick being on the MLB roster from now until the end of 2008.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 10, 2007 3:28 PM EDT reply actions

Sadly

you are likely right...

by JMedwick on Aug 10, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Sadly?

Man you really are confusing me. If he is the same as other players what makes them better then him? He still is making cheap money and he loves being able to play again. You don't DFA that type of guy unless you have too.

by StLHugo on Aug 10, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I mean sadly

Sure he is cheap, but so is Stanhovia and so too are Ryan and Hoffpauir. If they deal Juan, then I have no problem keeping Ludwick up with the big club. But, I think it is foolish to keep him round when you have 5 outfielders already on the ML roster, need to add an infield bench player, and need to evaluate some of the Memphis middle infield talent for 2008.

His salary might be low, but keeping him on the roster is anything but cheap. It costs the cards too much in terms of opportunity.

by JMedwick on Aug 10, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Math

The math tells me that one of the six outfielders on this roster is likely to be dealt. Pretty much stating that a healthy Juan is out the next 4 games makes me wonder...do they have a taker?

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Aug 10, 2007 3:47 PM EDT reply actions

I feel bad for Juan

as much as I have disliked him for most of his time here in St. Louis, he is still a human being. He is disliked by a fanbase that falls in love with it's players. He is boo'd, made the butt of jokes and I'm sure hears his fair share of crap from the rightfield seats.

I don't know him as a person, maybe he has a terrible personality. When a player signs a 3 year contract, it's usually so they can settle in with a place and not have to worry about their future for awhile. With Juan, the team has been practically pushing him out the door since June of last year (the emergence of Chris Duncan).

As long as I've wanted him gone from this team, I'll have to admit I will be a tad sad to see him go...just in that reliable guy offensively was so hated by a fan base that hates very few of it's own.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 10, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions

Juan-der-full

Frankly, this guy has been pretty good this year, but the Cardinal fan base falls in love with players who work hard, get dirty, and show enthusiasm. It hates guys who are non-challant (SP?) or maintain a clean uniform.

Cases in point:

Juan is the subject of much scorn, but Rex Hudler was a cult hero. Juan is a much more productive player than Rex ever was. However, fans always knew Rex gave it 100%. We see Juan as giving about 70% and it drives us nuts seeing how good we know this guy can be when he gives full effort.

Bo Hart STILL has people around here wanting him back, but St. Louis fans couldn't wait to get rid of Todd Zeile. Look at those 2 careers and tell me which one was the better player.

Mike Mattheny was a catcher who couldn't hit, but the fan base loved this guy because they knew he worked his tail off and always had a dirty uniform.

St. Louis fans in general have always been about the full-effort athletes. We don't like ones who talk too much (except Brett Hull) and we don't like ones who lollygag. (no matter the talent)I know everyone here knows of examples of this in football and hockey, too. We work very hard to pay for these expensive tickets and $8 beers and $20 parking and we expect the guys getting paid millions to at least put up the effort that we do in our 8 to 5 world. (or 7 to 4, I think only New Yorkers work an actual 9 to 5)

I like Juan, but I, and everybody else would like him so much better if smiled, ran full speed, and didn't loaf that once or twice a week on defense. Juan, or your agent...if you read this stuff, that is all you have to do and the fans will love you.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Aug 10, 2007 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Juan

Its not that I dislike the guy. I just dislike the cost / production equation. I would rather invest the money he costs us somewhere else.

BTW: Some of us work 11 to 7

by DriverZn on Aug 10, 2007 7:08 PM EDT reply actions

Simple..

TRADE JUAN!

I don't hate him as much as most people here do.. he's been pretty good this year. But his value has NEVER been higher than it is right now! With his current average and playoff experience, certainly a team will take him.

I don't care what we get in return.. if it's a player that can contribute, great. But the main thing I'd like to see is a team that will take the majority of his contract. This is a great opportunity to clear up some cap room coughsowecansignARODcough.

"We're too talented to let this season go down the drain." - Adam Wainwright

by stltrav09 on Aug 10, 2007 9:19 PM EDT reply actions

as much

as JuanE fustrates me I don't think we should dump him. I would like to see Duncan, JuanE, and Rick become the regular outfield. With Ludwick and Skip on the bench. That means that JimmE and Taguchi will have to retire this winter.

People get upset about JuanE's 6.5 mil next year, but how about JimmE's 8 mil. JuanE has been more productive. I don't think JimmE will be any better year next year. JaunE can bridge us to Colby.

by nybirdfan on Aug 10, 2007 9:56 PM EDT reply actions