some questions and answers at the all-star break
1. how often has a la russa-managed team rallied from an all-star deficit of 7.5 games or more to make the playoffs?
once. the 2001 cardinals reached the break in 3d place at 43-43, trailing the cubs by 8 games and the 2d-place astros by 5. as late as september 7 they were still in 3d place, 6.5 games back. at that point they went on a 9-game winning streak (which began right before the september 11 attacks and resumed after baseball's week-long hiatus), followed that up with a 6-game streak, and finished the season tied with houston for the national league's best record. chicago finished 3d.
three other la russa teams overcame lesser deficits. the 1992 oakland athletics were 2 games back of the defending champion twins at the all-star break, with a 51-36 record; they went on to win the division by 6 games. the '89 athletics were in 2d place, 1.5 games back of the angels with a 52-36 record; they took the crown by 7 games. and tony's first playoff team, the 1983 white sox, were 3.5 games behind and in 3d place at the all-star break, with a 40-37 record; they blew past the angels and rangers in the 2d half to win the division by 20 games.
tony has never led a team from a sub-.500 record at the all-star break to a playoff berth. that leads to question #2:
2. how many teams have gone on to make the playoffs after reaching the all-star break with a sub.-500 record?
i only checked back to 1995, the beginning of the wild-card era. three teams did it in the inaugural wild-card year, which you'll recall was strike-shortened: the yankees (30-36), dodgers (34-35), and mariners (34-35) all overcame losing first-half records to play baseball in october. since then, it has only happened twice:
- the 1997 astros got to the all-star break 2 games under, at 43-45; they were in 2d place behind the division-leading pirates, who were at .500. houston went 41-33 in the second half to win the division with an 84-78 record.
- the 2003 twins were 44-49 at the all-star break, 7.5 games back of the surprising kansas city royals. they played .667 ball down the stretch to finish with 90 wins and a second straight division title.
a couple of teams came close to pulling this off just last season, by the way: the phillies were 7 games under at the all-star break (40-47) and remained in contention until the final week of the season, while the astros (there's that nl central again) got to the recess 3 games under (43-46) and weren't eliminated until the last day.
3. how many games has chris carpenter's absence cost the cardinals?
various ways we can estimate this; the simplest is to look at runs allowed. as a cardinal, carpenter has averaged about 7 innings per start and allowed an average of 2.6 runs (that's total runs, not just earned) per start. to date he has missed 16 starts, which (per the averages) translates into 112 innings pitched and 42 runs allowed. it's impossible to assign those 112 innings to a single replacement pitcher, because the rotation has been such a scramble and because many of the innings carp would have thrown have been picked up by the bullpen. so let's just use the staff average: the cardinals in the first half allowed an average of 65 runs per 112 innings pitched. if we simply take the difference (65 runs minus 42), we can estimate that carpenter's absence has cost the cardinals 23 runs --- approximately 2 games in the standings. to put this another way, if carp had taken his regular turns and all else remained equal, we might expect the cards to have a team era of about 4.32 (which would rank 9th in the league) and have a record of 42-43, 5.5 games out.
here's a second way to look at it. the cardinals have won 66 of carp's 94 starts since 2004; that's a .702 winning percentage. so they could expect to have won 11 of the 16 starts he has missed. how many games did they actually win in those starts? to answer this question, we'll actually have to untangle the rotation and identify the specific replacement starter(s) who pitched in carpenter's stead. for 3 games, it was keisler: they went 2-1 in those starts. then brad thompson took over; the cardinals have gone 8-2 in his 10 starts to date. that takes care of 13 starts, in which the cardinals went 10-3. the remaining 3 starts were picked up by some combination of wells, reyes, and wellemeyer; the cardinals collectively are 10-25 in their starts, so let's just call that 1-2. tally it up, and the team is right where it should be: they've won (roughly tallied) 11 of the 16 starts that carpenter missed, the same number they could have expected to win had he made the starts himself.
if that's a counterintuitive outcome, consider two factors. first, the cardinals scored 66 runs in the 13 starts made by thompson and keisler, or just over 5 runs per game; this, more than the pitching, explains the team's success behind the replacement starters. second, even if carpenter had been healthy, the cardinals still would have had their overall record dragged down by the fruitless starts of kip wells and anthony reyes, and the same combination of bad pitching / bad run support / bad fielding. i think it's extremely unlikely that either of those pitchers would have been dumped from the rotation any sooner had carpenter been pitching; on the contrary, la duncan might have felt more secure in the rotation's stability, and hence might have given greater latitude to the floundering starters. wellemeyer might not have been picked up at all; there wouldn't have been any need to claim him, because thompson would still be in the bullpen.
of course, carp's presence would likely have a ripple effect benefiting the whole pitching staff --- he takes the pressure off the bullpen, the other starters, the offense, everybody. that's a valid argument, and i would tend to agree with it. but the effect of his loss is probably not as dramatic as we might like to think. this team probably would be laboring even if carpenter had been healthy all year.
4. how much has rolen's slump cost the cardinals?
let's start by quantifying the depth of the slump:
| AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | AVG | OBP | SLG | | | RC | BR | |||
| 2007 | 253 | 35 | 67 | 13 | 2 | 4 | 37 | 29 | .265 | .342 | .379 | | | 34 | 35 | ||
| 2006 first half | 284 | 59 | 94 | 28 | 0 | 14 | 57 | 30 | .331 | .398 | .577 | | | 66 | 62 | ||
| 1st half career avg | 263 | 43 | 76 | 19 | 1 | 12 | 49 | 34 | .287 | .375 | .500 | | | 49 | 49 |
he's 8 runs and 12 rbi behind his career first-half averages; that's 20 runs right there, or 2 wins. the projections for base runs (BR) and runs created (RC) are consistent but show slightly more modest deficits, on the order of 15 runs. compared to his first half of last season . . . . well, there is no comparison. but there is, alas, an-all-too pertinent comparison between rolen's first half in 2007 and his 2d half in 2006:
| G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | AVG | OBP | SLG | |||
| 2007 | 73 | 253 | 35 | 67 | 13 | 2 | 4 | 37 | 29 | .265 | .342 | .379 | ||
| 2006 | 66 | 237 | 35 | 60 | 20 | 1 | 8 | 38 | 26 | .253 | .333 | .447 | ||
| total | 139 | 492 | 70 | 127 | 33 | 3 | 12 | 75 | 55 | .258 | .337 | .411 |
that looks like a typical year from todd zeile, who averaged 17 homers, 74 rbi, and 65 runs scored per 500 at-bats to go along with career averages of .265 / .346 / .423. zeile did have a long and successful career; a team could do much, much worse. but still . . . .
oh by the way, rolen is hitting .190 / .333 / .259 against left-handers this season; second straight year he's had a pronounced reverse split. freaky.
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Rotation and Wonderbrad
On that front, Tony's "competition" apparently has ended and he kept Brad in the rotation and replaced Wellemeyer with Wells.
Hard to argue with Wells' bullpen performance beyond the fact that it is in relief. Let's hope it continues. I think Wellemeyer also deserves some thanks for not being a complete bust and saving us from complete ruin. I think his strong arm could really help in the bullpen too.
Ugh...
This Kip Wells thing just leave me with a sick feeling and a poor taste in my mouth...
the "competition" continues
I am worried yet glad to be.
The way I see it TJ will bump Cate but who gets bumped for Carp is totally open. You have a current rotation of Wainwright, Looper, Maroth, Thompson, Wells. Depending on Wells' first start he might be the one bumped but most likely Thompson to the Pen, but who from the Pen gets sent down? Franklin, Izzy, Springer, Percy, Wellemeyer are the only right handers (Cate/TJ and Flores are safe I would say) so which of them gets the boot? Can Thompson or Wellemeyer be optioned still? Do we DFA Welley or do we attempt a trade for one of them? Springer I think is an obvious trade bait right now, doing good and still on a short contract, Percival wanted to pitch for the Cards (or at least with certain players), Franklin and Izzy are pretty safe and Wellemeyer and Thompson won't get you much from a contending team leaving Springer as the best trading chip. I would say a Springer + JRod for a AAA player or Springer straight up for a A or High A prospect might be a decent trade. I would hate to see him go since he has been such a great pitcher this year but I can't find any other options with the current roster.
yes, but
What else needs to be considered
what I failed to say
Thompsons earned it.
Unless no one offers Reyes "Zito Money" in the future after the Cards cut him or trade him for another floundering pitching prospect, he may go by the wayside in the not too distant future. (sorry had to throw that over used Zito money thing in there)
by cardschinmusic on Jul 10, 2007 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Welcome back
Did you have a good vacation?
www.whiteyball.com
Still some games left...
That and having Carpenter in the dugout every day with his competitor mentality cant be underestimated. There would have been "laboring", but Carp going down when he did was a blow, and knowing Mulders long term situation and the unknown of Isringhausens surgury, young starters, knowing there are no above average arms at 3A, etc.
Good lumber could have overcome a lot of that. Maybe in the second half? Maybe Enc, Rolen and Edmonds will get hot enuff that teams have to pitch to Albert and Duncan? Maybe not?
There will be no Buehrle deal and he did NOT get "Zito money"!! Under market value...we can finally put that talk to rest. I never thought he would, he didnt have the track record. But there will be a deal that will bring a starter from somewhere?.... for cash and minimum prospects most likely knowing the front office.
And damn the sub-.500 odds against us, I want to see us win a game a week in the standings and make a respectable run. Respectable would be good.
Rolen batting #2
He argued Tony should put Rolen in the #2 lineup spot. The only thing Rolen's been good at when at the plate is taking pitches, he is also a great base runner, and could really set up Albert well.
It might also help out his hitting.
I'd thought of that as well.
As for Rolen's taking pitches
97 -- 3.95
98 -- 4.08
99 -- 4.18
00 -- 3.92
01 -- 3.90
02 -- 4.00
03 -- 4.15
04 -- 4.06
05 -- 3.75
06 -- 3.88
07 -- 3.77
There is a distinct pattern here. His regression offensively has corresponded w/ his willingness/ability to see a lot of pitches.
The argument for putting Duncan in the 2 hole initially was that he would see a lot of fastballs. If the same argument holds true for Rolen, he probably wouldn't increase his p/pa. Not saying this won't work, but Leach's argument that Rolen has been good at taking pitches just doesn't hold water since 2004.
In respect of Leach
But on taking pitches - those numbers, while declining, are still much better than Eckstein, Enc, Spiezio, and on par with Pujols and Edmonds. It's only really Duncan who outshines Rolen in p/pa, and I think Tony is right to move him to the 4 or 5 hole.
Thanks for the answer Larry....
I understand your analysis, and from that the answer is around 2-5 wins. Not enough to overcome the defecit, as I see it.
The Brewers are completely and totally loaded this year. Looking at their team, I don't see an area that they need a significant upgrade. They should be concerned about Weeks, who is still hampered by a wrist injury. However, they have Graffino ready to fill that void.
If I were Melvin, I would seriously consider adding Reggie Sanders. The one thing the team could probably use is a veteran presence, who has been to the dance before, who can escort the kids through it.
did someone say
Just read this....
At the beginning of the year, I wrote a diary regarding how bad MLB botches opening day. Marketing, hype, exposure, etc.
Now, comes the musical guests for the All-Star Game. Chris Issak will sing the National Anthem and Paula Cole will sing God Bless America. Seriously, folks, could MLB couldn't find Dishwalla, or Seven Mary Three, or any other late 90s one hit wonders? I mean like Chris Issak, but is he really a draw or someone who at least makes kids stop and change the channel.
At least it's not John Mellancamp
Great Dishwalla reference, btw. Much funnier than The Verve Pipe.
So is Huey Lewis
Baseball STILL has
Shame the Giants can't invite their Opening Day singers from 1993... you know, these guys!
(Yeah, I'm an old fart...)
by The Ol Goaler on Jul 9, 2007 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
For that matter
Easy on Dishwalla
Could be they picked
Good Point...
Oh, I agree.
O/T
Also O/T
"Show me somebody managing a big-league team who at the end of the season looks like Burt Reynolds in his prime."
Oh, if you want to travel over to the dark side...
Except that
Glacing at the standings
For our division: Brewers (42), Small Bears (28), Reds (-36), Astros (-39) and Pirates (-60). Our expected W/L is 36-49, worst in the division.
I understand that per Jocketty we are buyers, despite the circumstances. I hope we're just tinkering.
I hope what we're
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 9, 2007 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
If LaDunc is coming back, expect it to be a
Trade Deadline
Trade Izzy: He has been great this year, his value is high. Cleveland, Philly, and NYMets would all be interested---Marte/Milledge. Then Franklin/Percival could split the closing duties.
Trade Rolen: To the Angels for Figgins and a big time prospect (Hank Conger or Nick Adenhart?). Figgins could provide some speed in the 2 hole and take Rolen's spot at 3rd
Trade Reyes: To a team that is willing to part with somebody decent. Maybe a 2B that can hit a little. How about KC for Grudzielanek? Or package him and some other talent to the DBacks for Hudson?
Trade Eckstein: Lots of contenders would love to have him for the stretch run and he is a FA to be. Lets get some return and play Ryan the rest of the way. Maybe the Red Sox (Lugo is hitting 197)
Trade/Release Kennedy
New Lineup
Figgins-3B
Hudson-2B
Pujols-1B
Duncan-LF
Juan-RF
Edmonds-CF
Molina-C
Ryan-SS
Bench
Spiezio
Miles
Bennett
So
Ludwick
Pitching
Carp
Waino
Maroth
Thompson
Looper
Wells
Johnson
Flores
Springer
Percival
Franklin
Wellemeyer/Cate
by BluesDrummer85 on Jul 9, 2007 10:30 AM EDT reply actions
Why in the world would the Angels
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 9, 2007 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
No no no
Kinda reminds me of the scene from "The Break-Up" where Vince Vaughn says something to the extent of "I think she should move out and pay me some sort of a penalty."
Lots of contenders would
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 9, 2007 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry man,
The Angels have
The sad thing about Eckstein returning
As a position player/starter, Ryan went 11 for 35 (.314). His K to BB ratio was 4:3, which isn't bad. He didn't seem overly 'overwhelmed' by MLB pitching once he got a few ABs under his belt.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 9, 2007 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
More on Ryan
I get that there are egos involved...but come these guys aren't 8 year old girls. If I ask a better player to play on my solftball team he goes in the spot he's the best at. Why is TLR more afraid of hurting Kennedy's feeling more than I am of hurting my friend Larry's feelings? Tony doesn't have to collect $50 every season from Kennedy.
It's one of the things that bug me about Tony. I get that these guys aren't just names on a piece of paper but they are also adults who get paid to win.
I would agree overall but...
of Tony being somewhat irate at Ryan for a "rookie"
mistake. Ryan lost a ball in the sun due to not
taking his sunglasses with him. Tony had a pair
of sunglasses sent out to Ryan. And what does he
do? He mounts them on the bill of his cap and
doesn't wear them. Al - the commentator - was
all "Just put the glasses on, kid. Just do it."
You just knew that Tony was a bit upset because
Ryan didn't put on the glasses even though he
asked him to.
I think this falls into that general category of
the LaDuncan crew wanting thier youngsters to
follow guidance but they don't. And when they
don't, they land in the doghouse. I'm not saying
I agree with it. Just an observation.
by lostraven on Jul 9, 2007 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
But is a vet did the same
He doesn't even ask about it....
Trading Izzy
Sadly, I don't see us buying or selling. Probably nothing out there to make us dramatically better, and I have little doubt that any of the guys that we would shop would draw much of an impact player in return.
I hope I am wrong, but I see this team just flirting with .500 for the rest of the year, and finishing third. No saving move to be made that I can see.
by pitchout487 on Jul 9, 2007 11:21 AM EDT reply actions
sadly, I agree
And the players we have that teams WOULD want, we don't want to give up (Pooh, Duncan, Wainy, eg)
We can always hope that some other team has a key injury before Aug 30....and/or some GM is naive.
Two possible exceptions might be Looper, and oddly enough Kennedy... if he goes back to the AL he may re-bound. But we don't figure to get much for either of them.
by CurtFlood on Jul 10, 2007 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Anyone worried about Pujols in the
I caught up with the Post Dispatch while visiting my parents over the weekend. Pujols comes right out and says "I'm not doing it, it messes with your swing."
Imagine my surprise when I get home last night and find out he WILL participate.
I never got that
Even more
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 9, 2007 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I imagine he's participating
On the other hand
- Sometimes by hitting HR's you can "remember" how to hit HR's.
- Maybe not hitting any HR's Albert will wakeup and admit his power is gone right now and spend the next three days fixing it.
On a side note, how cool is it that when Pujols isn't quite right he just hits like Tony Gwynn instead of Ted Williams.
I don't think his power is gone
I agree
In the PD article, Albert even said he just hasn't gotten anything to drive.
I think it's patience, too
Maybe they did something to the ball this year...
by itsalemmon1019 on Jul 9, 2007 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Intuitively it seems that
Another way to look at it
221.2 IP, 76 ER, 3.09 ERA
Carpenter 2006 -23runs
221.2 IP, 53 ER, 2.15 ERA
Jeff Suppan 2006
190 IP, 87 ER, 4.12 ERA
Jeff Suppan 2006 -19 runs (prorated for innings)
190 IP, 68 ER, 3.22 ERA
23 runs prorated turns Jeff Suppan into Chris Carpenter. It's a significant amount but the impact that the pitcher has is still relative to his innings pitched. A dramatic increase in the quality of those innings has to be spread out over 162 games. The difference is there but I think you're overestimating the value of an individual run.
Rolen
Is Rolen washed up? Have injuries reduced him to this level of play for the rest of his career? Or, can we expect more out of him at some point?
by raisin @ Viva El Birdos on Jul 9, 2007 1:17 PM EDT reply actions
Maybe not washed up
by pitchout487 on Jul 9, 2007 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Rolen
by BluesDrummer85 on Jul 9, 2007 2:13 PM EDT reply actions
I gotta disagree with you Blues
What do you consider 'productive'?
Brooks Robinson (in 1969) at the age of 32 batted .234, drove in 84 runs and scored 73 times. He did, however, hit 23 HRs, something Rolen has literally no shot of doing. He put up a .298 OBP and a .395 SLG. Rolen's current on both are .345 and .380.
In fact:
At age 32 (Rolen projected)
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BA OBP SLG
Scotty 151 520 71 139 27 4 8 78 8 .267 .345 .380
Micheal 148 514 108 144 26 3 35 87 14 .280 .403 .547
Brooks 156 598 73 140 21 3 23 84 2 .234 .298 .395
Scott isn't hitting the ball over the wall. I think we can ALL agree that is an alarming trend. Scott has had good 2nd half HR totals before (01 and 02) but hitting 20 HRs seems out of the realm of possibility for him.
Robinson and Schmidt both got MVP votes in those seasons putting up their numbers.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 9, 2007 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I love Scotty...
I remember the days of Kenny Reitz... not a great avg or power hitter, but on those teams he carried his weight. And... I will get shot for saying this, but he was a better defensive 3b than even Rolen {and I have very high regard for Rolen's defense}
by CurtFlood on Jul 10, 2007 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Get shot? No. Get corrected? YES.
Let's look at their offense, using the adjusted OPS+ as the barometer for every year in which they appeared in at least 81 games. Both entered their first full year in the big leagues at age 22:
Kenny Reitz
Year Ag BA OBP SLG *OPS+
1973 22 .235 .256 .333 62
1974 23 .271 .299 .363 86
1975 24 .269 .298 .340 74
1976 25 .267 .293 .333 76
1977 26 .261 .291 .412 88
1978 27 .246 .280 .357 78
1979 28 .268 .299 .382 84
1980 29 .270 .300 .379 87
1981 30 .215 .261 .281 52
Scott Rolen
Year Ag BA OBP SLG *OPS+
1997 22 .283 .377 .469 121
1998 23 .290 .391 .532 139
1999 24 .268 .368 .525 121
2000 25 .298 .370 .551 126
2001 26 .289 .378 .498 127
2002 27 .266 .357 .503 132
2003 28 .286 .382 .528 139
2004 29 .314 .409 .598 160
2006 31 .296 .369 .518 127
As for this year, methinks you are "misremembering" Reitz's offensive contributions to the club and slightly underestimating Rolen's. Rolen is currently hitting with an OPS+ of 94. Although that is WAY below his career average of a 128 OPS+, I would point out that it is still higher than Kenny Reitz EVER achieved in a full season (his career avg OPS+ was a paltry 79).
As for defense, Reitz was a fine defender. He has one gold glove to show for it. However, Scott Rolen is CLEARLY a superior defender. He has 7 gold gloves (and is well on his way to an 8th), and every defensive metric as well as any credible anecdotal observations show that he is a FAR better defender, and is indeed one of the best third basemen of ALL time.
Scott Rolen is a 7 time gold glover, a 5 time All Star, a ROY winner, and placed 4th in league MVP voting in 2004. Kenny Reitz never once hit better in his prime than Rolen is hitting currently while being mired in the worst slump of his career. Furthermore, Reitz doesn't even qualify as a worthy defensive replacement for Rolen, since his defense is significantly inferior to Scotty's.
I'm sorry, but your claim that Reitz "carried his weight" and that Scotty isn't is laughable.
What about Pujols' power outage?
Agreed
I noticed on Sat night, after So singled in the bottom of the 9th, bringing up Albert as the games winning run and no one out; in '04-'06, there was just a feeling wherever you where watching the game -- at the park, in your living room, at a pub -- that something special was about to happen. I jazzed myself up for a few seconds before his at bat -- maybe this was the moment that El Hombre turns the corner and locks back in -- but nope, DP. And the Cards were left with a proverbial case of blue balls; kind of epitomized the whole season, really.
Maybe the derby tonight turns him around. By the way, do we get a "derby thread?"
exactly
In fact, the most enjoyable part of the game is watching Springer or Franklin come in and pitch out of whatever jam that Flores or Wellemeyer or whoever put them in.
Sal Baxamusa has an article at www.thehardballtimes.com that lists the biggest over- and under-performers of 2007... the Cardinals are lucky enough to have 3 hitters in the top 10 in "underperforming isolated power". Scary stuff, and it really tells it all imho.
Derby thread
6 beers and counting
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 9, 2007 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha
derby thread
by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 9, 2007 7:26 PM EDT reply actions






















