As The Rotation Turns
by Solanus on Jul 3, 2007 12:25 AM EDT
157 comments
Morning, everyone. My name is Solanus and I will be your substitute blogger for today. (As Mr. Borowsky is enjoying a well-earned break this week, I will be one of a few humble posters trying not to diminsh the good name Larry has built up so far.) My original plan was to show you kids a bootleg copy of Shrek 3 and call it a day, but apparently that goes against some sort of school policy. Rules suck!
Instead, I'm going to talk about our starting rotation and how Win Probability Added (WPA) sees them. If you've never been out to Fangraphs or, even better for Cards fans, erik's affiliated blog Gas House Graphs, take a look and learn a different way to view a baseball game. Where every out and hit are not measured the same. Where blowout homers and 3-run saves get the (lack of) credit they deserve. Where you can truly understand how much Pujols got jobbed by Ryan Howard last year. (Actually, David Ortiz got it much worse.)
Anyway, looking at the starts for each member of the rotation and the WPA value for each appearance, you can start to see a correlation between a pitcher's performance and how much blame/credit they should receive for a loss/win. Take Adam Wainwright, for instance:
| Date | Result | Performance | WPA |
| Apr 6 | W, 4-2 @ HOU | 7.0 IP, 5 H, 1 R | +.350 |
| Apr 11 | ND, 3-2 @ PIT | 6.2 IP, 7 H, 2 R | +.029 |
| Apr 17 | L, 1-6 v PIT | 6.0 IP, 8 H, 5 R | -.238 |
| Apr 22 | ND, 12-9 @ CHN | 5.1 IP, 12 H, 7 R | -.522 |
| Apr 28 | L, 1-8 v CHN | 4.1 IP, 7 H, 6 R | -.164 |
| May 4 | W, 3-2 v HOU | 6.0 IP, 7 H, 2 R | +.106 |
| May 9 | W, 9-2 v COL | 6.0 IP, 9 H, 2 R | +.123 |
| May 15 | L, 7-9 @ LAN | 2.2 IP, 7 H, 8 R | -.589 |
| May 22 | W, 9-4 v PIT | 5.1 IP, 9 H, 2 R | +.101 |
| May 27 | L, 2-7 v WAS | 7.0 IP, 7 H, 2 R | +.111 |
| Jun 1 | ND, 8-1 @ HOU | 7.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R | +.291 |
| Jun 7 | L, 1-5 v CIN | 6.0 IP, 8 H, 4 R | -.132 |
| Jun 13 | W, 7-3 @ KCR | 8.0 IP, 1 H, 0 R | +.155 |
| Jun 18 | L, 3-5 v KCR | 7.0 IP, 9 H, 5 R | -.183 |
| Jun 23 | W, 8-3 v PHI | 6.0 IP, 7 H, 2 R | +.164 |
| Jun 30 | L, 1-5 @ CIN | 5.0 IP, 5 H, 5 R | -.194 |
As you can see, there are games in which Wagonmaker is primarily responsible for the win (the two starts @ HOU) and others where it seems he did everything to make sure we lost (@ CHN, @ LAN). He also has a few where he did just enough to push us toward victory (pretty much anything with 2 runs allowed).
If you reassign wins, losses and no decisions based on how well each hurler pitched [+.100 or better = win, -.100 or worse = loss, in between = ND), here is how our starting pitchers look to date:
| Pitcher | Wins | Losses | ND's |
| Wainwright | 8 | 7 | 1 |
| Wells | 3 | 8 | 4 |
| Looper | 8 | 5 | 2 |
| Reyes | 1 | 8 | 3 |
| Thompson | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Wellemeyer | 1 | 3 | 2 |
| Keisler | 0 | 2 | 1 |
| Maroth | 1 | 1 | 0 |
| Carpenter | 0 | 1 | 0 |
Wainwright picks up an additional two wins, Looper improves on his 6-6 record, and Wellemeyer displays a mark that actually befits how well he has pitched and not how well his teammates have saved his ass. (Looking at it this way, there isn't much difference between Welly, Reyes, and Wells.)
A by-product of looking at the rotation's performances is that I was able to break out the contributions from each component of the team. In the month of June, our starting pitchers posted a WPA of -1.908, which means they pitched badly enough that, by themselves, they would have pushed our record 4 games below .500, with the only positives being Maroth & Wainwright. The bullpen amassed a WPA of +.617, despite an absolute turd of a month from Flores (-.859). The starting lineup combined for +1.264 and the reserves (pinch hitters and such) won an extra game by themselves (+.573). An aside: the pitching staff, taking their turn at the plate, actually outperformed Adam Kennedy for the month (-.549 v -.702). Other notable players: Pujols +2.022, Encarnacion +.667, Cate +.496, Franklin +.668, Izzy +.475.
BTW, as I was trying to get these damn tables to format somewhat intelligently Monday night, someone (I think it was nycbirdo) commented saying that you didn't need WPA to tell you that AW's first start was good and his Dodger Stadium gig was awful. (I had to re-format and just dumped the previous diary.) Well, yeah, that's pretty obvious, but it is looking at his 4/11 start against the Pirates (where he surrendered the tying run in the seventh and left a mess for Springer to clean up) where WPA stands out. His mistakes that inning killed all the work he and the offense had done up to that point, and pretty much all of the credit is given to the bullpen and the pinch-hitting exploits of Chris Duncan. Or why his spoiled no-hitter against KC doesn't get the love from Fangraphs. Read up at the excellent Gas House Graphs to get a better understanding of how the concepts work when applied to Cardinals games.
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Very insightful post
- Looper's arm injury seems as if it was almost as devastating to the rotation as Carpenter's. Losing his 'wins' from the rotation his final 3 starts and then 15 days off probably cost us atleast 3 games in the standings.
- How come we don't use the 'Jump' anymore on the daily entries?
- Was last night a 'revenge game' for us? Webb robbed Carpenter of the Cy Young, I don't care what the drunken voters said about Trevor Hoffman. So, was that the Cardinals 'exacting' their revenge?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 1:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Revenge,
Go Cards!
by yer dog first on Jul 3, 2007 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you know who did this, like, every night?
i guess he was ok.
by nycbirdo on Jul 3, 2007 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
anyone know where I could find...
People were talking about Reyes not being able to pitch up in the zone...
then I remembered someone here saying that he only had like one ball batted up in the zone all year (which sounds crazy).
by jealousblues on Jul 3, 2007 3:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Larry has them
by chuckb on Jul 3, 2007 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to jealousblues' question...
That said, I can report that I need more than one hand to count the number of times I've SEEN Reyes throw what is sometimes called "fat" pitches.
Of course Anthony has 'velocity' but most ML hitters can hit velocity.
And I am old school, I guess; these auxilary statistics talked about these days only baffle me. To paraphrase the Stengel line, "I don't need no stinkin' numbers"... to tell me who can pitch effectively and who can't.
My EYES tell me that Looper and Thompson consistently keep the ball down; Carpenter and Wainy mostly do, too, but like to throw in trick pitches; -- Wells is terrible any way you look at it, and I think Wellemeyer is a Reyes in waiting.
Altho' I have been impressed by the defenses recently offered, re. Anthony, on this site, (especially his attitude) I still cannot leave the 'dump Reyes' camp. He is mostly 'powder river' (or at least WANTS to be)and only the rare ones {Ryan, Seaver, Clemens, eg} can get away with that consistently
by CurtFlood on Jul 3, 2007 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Playing Better
After the organization had to deal with burying a teammate, the Cardinals stood at 10-16. They had a run differential of 84 RS to 127 RA, -43 runs.
The next 26 games, the Cardinals went 13-13. They had a run differential of 118 RS to 126 RA, -8 runs.
Over this last 27 games (adding one in for good measure), the team has gone 14-13. They have a run differential of 141 RS to 155 RA, -14 runs.
Since that terrible day, the Cardinals have gone 27-26. Their run differential has been 259 RS to 281 RA, -22 runs.
No team wants to have a negative run differential, however the improvement is a positive sign.
The idea while Carpenter, Edmonds, Eckstein, Rolen, Looper, etc have been injured was to 'survive'. The Cardinals have done that. With their hodge-podge rotation and hodge-podge lineups they've been able to play .500 baseball and almost break even in the run differential.
What is astonishing is that as much maligned the rotation was for 'falling apart' after their terrific start, they've stayed moderately consistent. With Carpenter's return soon after the All-Star Break, the additions of Percival and Maroth, it has to be believed that they'll not balloon into allowing more runs.
That awful, awful start may have doomed the season. The -43 run differential is staggering, especially looking at how it much the offense has improved since that time.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the there is reason for hope, other than just waxing poetic. The team has yet to be full strength or atleast the strength we can expect.
Yet, the Cardinals have been able to play .500 ball. They're going to have to go on a 26 game stretch of .600+ ball to erase that horrid start, though.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 4:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
shrek.. heck, it was Al and Scott Monday night!
A bootleg of Shrek 3 might have been in order for some of us to lighten the first half load...
We need to celebrate the revenge win against Webb and hope this team goes for the throat in the second half after not getting the respect theyve deserved dating back to at least Y2K
Webbs and Carpenters stats were nearly identical in 06...but Carpenter had the obstacle of being a St Louis Cardinal on a team helmed by Tony LaRussa to overcome with the press. Are we the Rodney Dangerfields of the MLB press or do the Cubs still own that?
by cardschinmusic on Jul 3, 2007 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carp lost it for himself
by Alxfritz on Jul 3, 2007 7:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please, let's not go
As a St. Louisan living on the East Coast, I have a different perspective, i.e., that our Cardinals get a hell of a lot MORE coverage (and positive coverage at that) than most other non-Eastern teams do. Sometimes I'm shocked at how many Cardinal games I can see on TV here, or the coverage of our team by East Coast media. Believe me, we clearly get better and more coverage than the Astros, Rangers, Reds, Royals, etc. The reality is that the press is not anti-STL; at worst it is indifferent to the Cardinals, the Midwest, and other teams not on the Eastern Seaboard. And yes, that can be a little maddening at times, but it's perfectly consistent with the attitudes of most people who live here as well.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 3, 2007 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
by Valatan on Jul 3, 2007 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love that all these replies are in no way
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
reply to this
Comment Quality Added (CQA) when
- Not using the reply to this when you should: CQA = -.185
- Using the reply to this when you shouldn't: CQA = -.262
- Properly using reply to this: CQA = .085
I fully intend on randomly assigning CQA to comments from this day forward.
O and those CQAs are based on an empirical study that sought to rationalize the standard deviation among comments from multiple distributions over a gaussian curve. . .or I just made them up.
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
best. game. ever.
by nycbirdo on Jul 3, 2007 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, I'll respond:
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 3, 2007 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everybody Cut!
by Alxfritz on Jul 3, 2007 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I live
by rockin redbird on Jul 3, 2007 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't nycbirdo
I do understand how important they are, and how they can be used to compare players. Specially when considering a trade or evaluating a prospect, but I can't help but feel that this game might just have all the fun statted out of it.
You are right that Wainman's line for the 4/11 game looks pretty good, but if you saw, heard or read about that game you would know that he almost blew it totally.
Sometimes I just want to sit back and watch the game, and see these guys (even at single A ball) make plays. Plays I only can dream about making!
by nybirdfan on Jul 3, 2007 8:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i was gonna say
by nycbirdo on Jul 3, 2007 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need TLR to pull a Piniella
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jul 3, 2007 10:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I more than partially agree
And that recent Reds' game... where the plate umpire was borderline awful... IS a good example of where Tony should have gotten the old heave-ho.
by CurtFlood on Jul 3, 2007 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad Management
Good management isn't suprised when expect results become actual results. So if we finish in 3rd place 7 games back what will management say? "Wow didn't see that coming." or "We really thought Thompson and Wellemeyer would make the next step" What will they say and to the point what will they know about Reyes they don't know now? What will a September call up tell them? That even though he hates you and is counting the days until free agency he can still pitch?
I know some will say "but Reyes isn't that good right now." Your right and management can say that in order for this team to make the next step Reyes has to make the next step. No one should be suprised. Reyes is 0-10 and we are 10 games back. As goes Reyes so goes this team...and where is he going? Backward.
Earlier I called Reyes this teams "Pivot Point" where what has happened before Reyes has lead up to him and everything after him will be because of him...and that how management handles him will go a long way to determining the future of this team...and in the face of adversity this team choose to do nothing.
I see stormclouds ahead...looks like rain.
by Harknights on Jul 3, 2007 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've posted this a couple of times and haven't
by jillsinmo on Jul 3, 2007 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sinker is old hat
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After watching his last start
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sinker may be gone, but
by jillsinmo on Jul 3, 2007 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is you throwing a fit
Especially when the can just send him to Memphis, where a developing pitcher can develop a legit breaking pitch and work on not just 'throwing' but 'pitching', something Reyes himself seems to be admitting he doesn't do.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, if he's not any good, why not?
by jillsinmo on Jul 3, 2007 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For 2 or 3 wins a year
Trading a young, uninjured arm just for 2 or 3 wins would be bad baseball.
I'd trade Kip Wells for 2 or 3 runs but that is just because he is being paid $4 million.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no reason to get jumpy.
There is no reason to give him away. We can keep him in Memphis and when we are devastated by injuries again we can call him up. At least we know what we are getting, 5 runs in 4 innings most night, and occasionally (maybe once every 8 or 9 starts) a gem.
by ZiggyG on Jul 3, 2007 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have zero insider knowledge,
Actually I think groupthink is so dangerous that I hope there is serious disagreement there. We might not know the answer until the offseason, when we see if the current leadership stays or goes.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 3, 2007 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree 100%
I believe it's EXACTLY this disagreement that is preventing a trade of Reyes, who unfortunately, happens to be caught in the middle, and therefore, gets sent to AAA. I'm not saying he hasn't underperformed - he's in this predicament because of his own doing - but only partly. He's also gotten (almost LITERALLY) zero run support, which is not his fault. Nor is the current state of management his fault. He just happens to be the goat in this situation.
I think it will go down exactly as TLR described - barring injury, he'll be in AAA until September, get called up when rosters expand, the Cards will finish how they finish, and this offseason we'll find out who's really in charge.
by SmashedAtoms on Jul 3, 2007 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As for as the direction of the club goes
by jillsinmo on Jul 3, 2007 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What response do you want?
by sdrone on Jul 3, 2007 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree.
by Zubin on Jul 3, 2007 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anthony Reyes WISHES he was Jose Rijo
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I use him because his
by jillsinmo on Jul 3, 2007 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't doubt Reyes could flourish under different
by Zubin on Jul 3, 2007 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the logic for Reyes
We're 6-0 (i think) in Todd Wellemeyer starts. Looking at what Solanus posted above he and Reyes both should have won 1 game. I hope that not a single person on the Cardinals payroll said we should send him down becuase he can't "win consistantly". If one player could "win" a baseball game, we wouldn't need baseball teams.
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not what I said.
by Zubin on Jul 3, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His peripherals
he hasn't won games, but his peripherals are that of a player transitioning to the bigs. the process fundamentals are there, it's little tweaks.
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also has
by Zubin on Jul 3, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if a process isn't working
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I mean that as a legit question
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
-.97 CQA
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
Now, I think the question is "is this team in it?" I dont think so and maybe others don't but I do think the powers that be do. So, with that knowledge, they aren't going to let him "figure" things out and "work" on things at the big league level.
Until the powers that be decide this season is over, he is going to have to "work" on things in Memphis. Plus the obvious benefit that the players arent as good in Memphis is allows him some leeway to fail some.
by beanocook on Jul 3, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree that the front office
but his problems don't translate to the minors. He goes down there and dominates. Here's a (really bad analogy):
Bob has to work in St. Louis for his job. Something in St. Louis makes him sick. If he works in Indianapolis for a while, everything seems ok and all his symptoms are gone until he gets back to St. Louis.
Can you diagnose Bob while he's in Indianapolis?
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reyes problems
by gonzostl on Jul 3, 2007 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair question
The only way optioning A-Rey does any good for A-Rey himself, is if he is suffering some kind of psycological damage through failure. I really don't see that- well not much at least.
Personnally, after the Mets start, I'd give him another shot or two. I'd also think hard about a bullpen role the for a while in order to learn "situational pitching" skills at a major league level. Of course if the Cardinals did that, they be waving the white flag on the season.
by Zubin on Jul 3, 2007 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"As goes Anthony Reyes...."
:D
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, now he really
by jillsinmo on Jul 3, 2007 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which shows how arbitrary it is to say
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Post
by arthropodtodd on Jul 3, 2007 11:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Reyes
Tony and Dave have a great track record with veterans who they plug into their system. Not everyone fits that system.
We are blaming them for trying to plug Reyes into that sytem which obviously doesn't work for him. In other words, if he was given a fair shake and not forced to pitch in a way he can't, most here believe his numbers would have been significantly better.
Of course, maybe if he had a little run support, less pressure from LaDuncan, and the constant fear or being shipped back to Memphis, he could have relaxed and maybe just throw like he can, especially with men on base.
When Wainwright has struggled this year, there was no pressure on him.
by Carps on Jul 3, 2007 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wainwright vs Reyes
Tony said as much in the P-D today, stating that if Anthony had won a game, the decision would probably be different.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
quote
That is not TLR saying it would have been a different decision. He's saying he would have progressed as a pitcher if he had won a few games. Frankly, it's more BS that's being tossed around by the coaches & front office. TLR did not say that the decision would have been different.
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Article
by Carps on Jul 3, 2007 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
Look, he hasn't pitched well. The idea that people continue to defend and defend and defend him is ridiculous to me. Do I wish he were in the rotation and not Wellemeyer? Sure. But it's not like Anthony has much room to make an argument.
This idea that his troubles ALL exist from the four-seam, two-seam debate is a joke as well.
by beanocook on Jul 3, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true.....
by jillsinmo on Jul 3, 2007 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fangraphs Start at 50% ?
So teams at home get more WPA than they deserve... but I guess it evens out over a year.
by Okasa on Jul 3, 2007 11:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There is a Post on Fangraphs about it already
by StLHugo on Jul 3, 2007 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
of note:
AL East 109 - 93
AL Cent 105 - 98
AL West 95 - 67
overall AL Home 54.5%
NL East 100 - 110
NL Cent 121 - 120
NL West 115 - 90
overall NL Home 51.2 %
by CurtFlood on Jul 3, 2007 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who charted Looper's starts?
His decline over the last few games coincided with his decline in velocity, if I recall. Is this true?
I'm willing to shrug off last night as it was a guy coming off the DL. However, if he isn't more consistently hitting atleast 91 on the gun, I think Looper may be on his way to shoulder surgery...again.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 11:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Was at last night's game
I ran into a fellow in a VEB shirt beforehand, too. That was pretty cool.
by liam on Jul 3, 2007 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"What did the man say?"
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carp
by CardFaninVA on Jul 3, 2007 12:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It appears to be the first game
by StLHugo on Jul 3, 2007 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gameday??
by nycbirdo on Jul 3, 2007 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
by CardFaninVA on Jul 3, 2007 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they say it is free
by gonzostl on Jul 3, 2007 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Reyes of the story
This is fundemental to the argument concerning his performance in the Major Leagues and the LaRussa/Duncan contribution to it. If he were a great and wildly talented player, some of this stuff might hold water. But he is only a talented CARDINAL propect, and we just don't got many of those (that's another story).
The idea that Ducan hasn't shown "confidence" in him or "put too much pressure" on him is goofy. A guy who gives up runs in 4 and 5 run chunks, is a guy in whom "confidence" is poorly placed in the first place. And "pressure" - this is The Show, it's all about "pressure" at this level.
As for Reyes being the poster boy for all that's wrong with the organization - that dog won't hunt. There's plenty of stuff that isn't perfect with the Cardinals - that lack of propects comes to mind - but the treatment of Anthony Reyes is way down the list.
I'm personally confident that Duncan has forgotten more about pitching in the Bigs then Reyes will ever know, but that does not mean that Duncan and Anthony are a perfect fit. Hell, Reyes might need another line of thinking to get where ever he's gonna get careerwise. But right now Duncan is who he's got. Anthony needs only to look at his own track record as a professional pitcher and Dave Duncan's as a pitching coach to decide who's advise to trust.
by deweydell on Jul 3, 2007 1:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Baseball America
2006-ranked #41
I realize they aren't right all the time, but it does means that some smart baseball people at least see the potential to be a big-time player.
by themang on Jul 3, 2007 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Points
I also find am amused when we fans make judgements of LaDunc based on what they tell the press. Let's not forgot they are seasoned veterans at handling the media too. We may ultimately learn their genuine thoughts through observation but rarely ever through post-game quotes.
by Hinkster on Jul 3, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
go
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understood
I do, however, know that it takes some longer to develop than others and maybe that's the case with AR. He's had some bad luck and I don't want to see him play the "Anthony Young" role
While we can agree or disagree on the Memphis shuttling, LaDunc likely knows more about pitching than most everyone on these blogs combined.
And...we'll never know LaDunc's true thoughts on AR because both TLR and Dunc are playing poker trade-wise and all three, including AR, are much too savvy to be candid with the press.
Too much being read into too little information.
by Hinkster on Jul 3, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably
by beanocook on Jul 3, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally...
Some people on this site have an unnatural dislike of the guy. It's not entirely his fault the team stinks this year so stop acting like it is.
by themang on Jul 3, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I just want to see EVERYONE agree that all parties involved have played a role in this. It isnt like poor ole Anthony is being jerked around and has no control over how he does.
I dont like to label things. But if there IS an "anti-Anthony" crowd they need to understand that maybe TLR and Duncan can handle him differently. That maybe they SHOULD let him pitch in the rotation. I agree with this.
However, the "pro-Anthony" crowd needs to understand that all of the problems dont fall on Tony/Duncan. Anthony has pitched poorly, no question here. He has to take MUCH of the blame for his performance. Again, its not all mean old Duncan/Tony making him pitch poorly.
This season its simple...Anthony is lights out with no one on base, gets lit with guys on. He also has been getting lit early in games. He has to correct this. I dont see how the "two-seam/four-seam" issue plays a role in either of those problems.
by beanocook on Jul 3, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The guy has made...
Yes, it's AAA, but stuff translates typically, and in this crappy season really presents a nice opportunity for him to go out every fifth day and settle in against big league hitters. I don't know why every start is put under a microscope. He's going to struggle because he's learning.
Look at what Maddux did his first 32 starts in the bigs:
186.2 IP, 225 hits allowed, 85 walks, 121 Ks, 5.59 era
The next year he was 18-8 with a 3.18 era
Mulder's first 27 starts:
154IP, 191 hits allowed, 69 walks, 88 Ks, 5.44 era
The next year he finished second in the CY voting
The 2000 As were a 91 win team and they still stuck with Mulder through his dreadful rookie season. The Cardinals are playing for 2008... so what if he loses a bunch of games if it helps him become a better pitcher in the future.
Does anyone really think eight more starts at AAA, on top of the 39 he's already logged, will help him as much as starting at the big league level?
by guayzimi on Jul 3, 2007 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THANK YOU
To steal Azruavatar's joke: +.170 CQA!
Anyone who thinks this team can pass both the more talented Cubs AND the heavily favored Brewers (with their incredibly easy July schedule) while currently sitting 9 games back with only 80ish games to play...well, you're not being even the least bit realistic. Passing TWO better teams at this point would be a MONUMENTAL comeback of EPIC proportions...especially with all of our current shortcomings and injuries.
The fact that management, with their stubborn insistence on playing washed up veterans over promising rookies, refuses to acknowledge that this team's best chance for future success DEMANDS that we play our talented youngsters now if we're going to compete at all in 2008...well, that's the maddening part.
Believe it or not, the future of this team is NOT Wells and Wellemeyer. It's guys like Reyes.
by Mr Clean on Jul 3, 2007 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is higher than the #50
by jillsinmo on Jul 3, 2007 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Game Day Thread?
The Cardinals have been marginally good against Johnson in his career (Randy's starting for the D-Backs tonight.)
The Cardinals average 3 runs in 7 innings per game off of Johnson, going 6-6 vs. one of the top pitchers of the past decade. Current Cardinal players do not quite do as well, however. Pujols is one that does...he has a .412/.412/.941 line against Johnson (yes, that .941 is his SLG, not his OPS). Spiezio and Juan have done well in limited PAs against him, but Bennett, Kennedy, Miles, Molina, Rolen, and Taguchi are a combined 10 for 69 against Johnson...so BLEH.
stlfan
by stlfan on Jul 3, 2007 1:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, I'm interested to see old
by jillsinmo on Jul 3, 2007 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reyes -- enough already
Contrary to some people here, I put a little more stock in La Russa and Duncan's decision-making than Reyes' pitching at this point, given the TLR and DD have a long track record of success and Reyes has a career 6-19 record with an ERA in the mid 5.00's and an average of about 5 IP per start. He is not ready now. He may be ready next year or later in the year with more work. So far, his successful minor league approach has not been proven to "scale up" and work against routine major leaguers.
by willievinceterry on Jul 3, 2007 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Whoops
by willievinceterry on Jul 3, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sigh
"career 6-19 record" -- can we all agree that a pitchers win loss record is one of the worst ways to evaluate talent or what they've done? can we please stop quoting wins and losses as a justification for sending him down?
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
by themang on Jul 3, 2007 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But his ERA was 3.59
7-16 is way better than 0-10, and more importantly, 3.59 is way better than 6.40.
by willievinceterry on Jul 3, 2007 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a bit disingenuous...
by SleepyCA on Jul 3, 2007 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm merely agreeing with azruavatar
by themang on Jul 3, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
W-L record isn't perfect...
I may not be able to point to a pitcher who has a superior ability to strand runners at a higher rate, but I can point to one who has not proven able to do that...and that would be Reyes. I do not believe his problems with baserunners and crooked numbers are mere chance. I haven't done a statistical analysis, but my gut feeling is that something happens with Reyes when runners get on. Either he gets rattled and makes worse pitches, or he doesn't pitch well out of the stretch, or something.
One justification for sending him down is that players and fans like the team to win games, and when he pitches, it isn't happening. Again -- pure chance? Pure bad luck? You think the position players don't feel some of the air sucked out of them when he goes out and allows crooked numbers early in the game and puts them in a hole? You think there isn't some sort of "here we go again" effect. There has to be.
Another justification for sending him down is that he needs to learn to pitch better. The minor leagues are for learning, and that's what he needs to do at this point.
Finally, who else were they supposed to send down or release at this point? He was clearly the most sensible option. With Carpenter returning soon, they'll have another tough decision to make.
by willievinceterry on Jul 3, 2007 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah and parking lots...
Reyes has thrown 234 innings with Memphis and utterly dominated. He's got to hit the road. If the Cardinals were in a pennant race and couldn't afford to give away games that would be one thing, but 1) they don't have anyone better, or at least much better, and 2)They're not going to the playoffs this year. So why not do what's beneficial for 2008?
by guayzimi on Jul 3, 2007 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many cars does one have to total
by Valatan on Jul 3, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 2007 Cardinals...
by guayzimi on Jul 3, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's nice not even being at the midway point
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The wild card...
At the beginning of the season the community projections pegged the Cards as, what, an 88 win team? That was assuming Wells, Reyes, Edmonds, Kennedy and Rolen would make a considerable contribution. Instead they're contributing nothing.
If you had to make the choice between taking steps to improve the 2008 team or sacrificing the future and going for it in '07, wouldn't you choose the latter?
by guayzimi on Jul 3, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to hand you your towel back
The Cardinals are behind 6 teams in the Wild Card race:
Dodgers - 6.0 losses behind
Arizona - 4.0 losses behind
Atlanta - 2.0 losses behind
Chicago - 2.0 losses behind
Philade - 1.0 losses behind
Colorad - 1.0 losses ahead
This month alone, the Cardinals have
Arizona - 3 games
Atlanta - 4 games
Chicago - 3 games
Philade - 3 games
Of the 5 teams that are ahead of the Cardinals in the Wild Card as far as losses, the Cardinals play a reasonable amount of games against them to pass them in the Wild Card Standings over this next month.
It's tough looking and comparing teams that have not played the same number of games. However, the stat I always look at is losses. Assume the best, that a team, if pressed can win those remaining games it needs to to make up the difference.
The Cardinals could jump 3 or 4 of the 6 teams it is behind in the Wild Card by August 1st if they play well.
The odds of it happening certainly aren't great but to throw in the towel before the team has even played 81 games is silly. Especially when your team is single digits below .500, back in it's division and back in the Wild Card.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope they come up with a miracle...
The NL wild card team has averaged 92 wins over the past 11 years.
Currently the Dodgers are on that pace, and there are a number of teams close to it. Assuming one of those teams gets hot or at least continues its current pace, I think it's almost assured that a minimum of 90 wins will be needed for the WC.
For the Cards to get to 90 wins they would have to go 53-30 from here on out. That's .639 ball or a 103 win season pace. The chances of them doing that without Rolen or Edmonds are very close to zero.
by guayzimi on Jul 3, 2007 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rebuttal
Todd Wellemeyer -- a career journeyman reliever who has never had the command to get the ball over the plate except for the last 4 weeks. That's called an aberration.
he needs to learn to pitch better.
Prior to this year in the minors: 9.97 K/9, 1.81 BB/9, .84 HR/9
2007 in the minors:6.45 K/9, 1.22 BB/9, 1 HR in 22 innings, 5.72 H/9
There is nothing left to learn in the minors for Anthony Reyes.
I can point to one who has not proven able to do that...and that would be Reyes
you completely missed my point. There is no such thing as a player who cannot inherently strand runners at a close to normal rate. This is a statiscal anamoly that can fluctuate in a season. Reyes's numbers would regress to them mean given time. If it's something that's happening because he's pitching out of the stretch, why hasn't the all-mighty Duncan be able to fix that? Why is that Reyes fault and how does sending him to memphis (where the problem ISN'T happening) going to fix it?
fans like the team to win games, and when he pitches, it isn't happening
Solanus showed above that there are other pitchers doing just as poorly. It's a coincidence that Reyes has lost all those no-decision WPA events rather than won them.
"here we go again" effect
you say that and then 2 seconds later ask who else we would send down??? Because Kip Wells on the mound makes players feel great? Wellemeyer?
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wells probably makes them feel pretty bad too
I understand the concept of small sample size. But Reyes' extraordinarily bad record and, more importantly, his horrible strand rate and his problem with big innings are so far from the expected values that I refuse to believe it's mere chance and small sample size that we're witnessing. I don't think that sending him out there with the same approach will lead to these numbers regressing to any acceptable level.
It is the very fact that these numbers are so far off the expected value that makes me suspect there's something else at work -- like problems pitching out of the stretch and/or that elusive ability to "bear down" with runners on (rather than nibbling, trying to make perfect pitches, falling behind and then either walking batters or get hit hard).
If someone flipped a coin 100 times and it came up heads 55 times or 43 times or even 62 times, I might say, "Ah, it's just a small sample size." But if it came up heads 95 times, I wouldn't say, "That's an extraordinarily improbable total -- it's bound to regress to the mean." I'd suspect a problem with the coin.
As I've mentioned before, I also think his numbers in the minors could be slightly deceiving because he's using an approach that is good enough to get AAA hitters out, but not major leaguers who have better plate discipline. He may throw hard enough to be a "power pitcher" in the minors, but not in the majors.
by willievinceterry on Jul 3, 2007 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm obviously not going to change your mind
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
post script
it's beyond not perfect,it's bad. 25 decisions can be totally disassociated from the reality of how a pitcher is pitching. You're mixing small sample size with a bad metric.
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
by willievinceterry on Jul 3, 2007 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Anthony Reyes was 10-0
Batting average and wins aren't good indicators of how good a pitcher is/can be, but they are red flags that will always stand out.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or if he were...
You can dig out all the peripheral statistics you want, but when the numbers are as blatant as they are with Reyes, chances are they are not merely the result of chance or bad luck.
Thank you, HL, for being among the realists in this Anthony Reyes soap opera! I don't think either of us has anything against Reyes. I, for one, just tire of the constant excuse-making on his behalf.
by willievinceterry on Jul 3, 2007 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can
Why was/is Reyes so good this year with no one on but then can't get anyone out with people on base? It certainly isn't due to what fastball he is throwing.
Obviously its an issue.
by beanocook on Jul 3, 2007 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey beano
I agree that there could be a problem pitching out of the stretch but we only see that problem in the bigs. If they send him to Memphis where it isn't happening, how do you diagnose the issue? That seems like a downfall of TLR/DD not just Reyes.
I don't think it has to do with the fastball necessarily but I definitely don't think sending him to Memphis will help to correct it.
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
going fine
Have TLR/Dunc struggled with him. No doubt. But its something EVERYBODY has to get figured out...and there is still plenty of time.
by beanocook on Jul 3, 2007 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, oh voice of reason......
by jillsinmo on Jul 3, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
But we have to understand that isn't what the big boys think. So, we have to realize they still feel they are in it. With that knowledge, it isnt wise to let him work the kinks out up here.
The debate is more along the lines of "are we or aren't we in it?"...at least it seems to me.
by beanocook on Jul 3, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they did that with every player...
Players need to seize their opportunities (like Wainwright, Kinney or Duncan last year). You can't just keep sending them out there to perform badly at the expense of the team. Otherwise, you'd be constantly looking to the future but never winning in the present. Reyes doesn't deserve any preferential treatment in being allowed to pitch poorly. He can try again next time he gets called up.
by willievinceterry on Jul 3, 2007 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The dark side of going with youth
by Valatan on Jul 3, 2007 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at LOB %
It does correlate.
by silent_bob on Jul 3, 2007 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
within reason
Does that make John Maine the second best pitcher in the majors? One of the top 10? top 20? I'd argue no. That he's stranding a higher than usual number of baserunners and that he will regress and his numbers will come down.
Of the top 10 pitchers in LOB% I'd argue that at least half don't belong there - Gorzelanny, Maine, James, Penny, Hill. Are they good pitchers? Yes. Do I think they are stranding statistically abnormal numbers of baserunners? Absolutely.
Steve Traschel was stranding like 90% of runners for the first 3rd of the season -- does that make him good? No, it makes him an aberration over a small sample size. Unless Reyes's inability to strand runners is connected to some actual problem,for example he can't get any break on his pitches from the stretch, then the really low strand rate isn't a problem in and of itself.
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SilentBob
Does a better pitcher strand more runners? Yes.
Do they strand more runners because they have a better ability to strand runners? No.
A better pitcher will strand more runners simply because they are retiring batters at a higher percentage rate than a bad pitcher. If they retire batters at a 80% rate vs a bad pitcher who does so at a 40% rate (totally made up numbers) then they will strand more runners. I just don't think it's some other kind of ability to buckle down when there are runners on base. It's a function of their ability to retire batters in general.
I hope I clarified that better because they way I said it before was wrong. Thank you for calling me out on that.
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could it be
by player2bnamedl8r on Jul 3, 2007 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Anthony lost his '-ness'
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha
I also agree that we should not give up on Reyes. I just don't feel as strongly about keeping him in the rotation as you do.
by silent_bob on Jul 3, 2007 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+.075 CQA
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Cole Hamels
John Smoltz
Ben Sheets
Chris Young
Jake Peavy
Roy Oswalt
Lets compare Matt Cain's season to Reyes. His record sits at 2-9. He, like Reyes has gotten low run support. The difference is that his ERA and peripherals BOTH look good.
CAIN
-ERA 3.38
-LOB% 76%
-FIP 4.12
-K/G 6.8
-BB/G 4.5
REYES
-ERA 6.40
-LOB% 58%
-FIP 4.77
-K/G 6.2
-BB/G 3.3
Cain also walks more guys. He just happens to get out of more jams than Reyes.
How about a better comparison for Reyes: Kip Wells.
WELLS
-ERA 6.30
-LOB% 59%
-FIP 5.11
-K/G 6.4
-BB/G 4.5
REYES
-ERA 6.40
-LOB% 58%
-FIP 4.77
-K/G 6.2
-BB/G 3.3
Do you want Wells back in the rotation too?
by silent_bob on Jul 3, 2007 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are right about the correlation
Cain also walks more guys. He just happens to get out of more jams than Reyes.
Cain pitches in a pitchers park and has a very (read: unnaturally) low HR/FB rate. His xFIP is 4.98 compared to Reyes at 4.96. That's the only difference between the two. He's getting "out of jams" because AT&T park allows HRs at half the rate of Busch Stadium.
Kip Wells has been bad for several years. He has a track record of being bad. Anthony Reyes has a track record of being good. If I have to place bets on one and chose one for our rotation, I pick reyes.
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cain has pitched worse
Busch III is a pitchers park too.
by silent_bob on Jul 3, 2007 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i didn't realize he was worse at home
the xFIP comparison still shows that Cain has been lucky re the homerun ball.
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cain has had a lot more dominant games...
by willievinceterry on Jul 3, 2007 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's turn this around.
That's my point. I just don't see why THAT will get us 10 extra games. It's asking too much of too many. If Reyes was in the rotation I could see how they could, I would expect it, but I could see how.
and my coment about As goes Reyes so goes the Cards is more long term rather than 3 months of a season. What happens next year? Is Reyes in the rotation? Why? Why not? we will know even less next year than we know now. Will 12 worthless innings in spring training determine Reyes' spot next year?
I understand the need to win now. Flags fly forever...but we aren't choosing between Reyes and Wagonmaker or Garcia or Octavio. We are picking Looper and or Wellemeyer over Reyes because they "Give us a better chance to win."
Really?!? Why? Because if you ignore the rest of their resume the last 3 months on this team they have pitched "Well" not "Great" but "Well."
Again I'm not blind. Reyes has pitched like crap this year. It seems that if a runner gets on you have to pray "please no one else" because if a second runner gets on you know you can go to the store and get back before the inning is over. I just think it's better for the organization long term to suffer through that every five days if need be. To know at the end of the year what we have. If he can turn it around then we have a chance this year...if not then we all know that we must cut bait.
by Harknights on Jul 3, 2007 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The rotation
Carpenter
Maroth
Wainwright
Looper
are locks barring Looper having more of a shoulder injury.
So, it comes down to filling 1 spot with 4 people. Wellemeyer, Thompson, Reyes, Wells.
- Wellemeyer has had good results the last month but is not long for the future. Once he screws up, you might make a case of long term vs short term.
- Wells is gone, toast. I doubt he will ever start a game in St. Louis ever again. He doesn't even really factor into the argument.
He's younger than Reyes. He doesn't have the same 'stuff' that Reyes does...not even close, really. However, he 'pitches' instead of 'throws'.
Why does Anthony Reyes deserve a chance to 'prove himself' but Brad Thompson wouldn't?
Brad Thompson has earned that #5 start as much, if not more than Reyes has.
The 'future' for 2008 is Carpenter, Wainwright, Maroth for certain. Looper and Mulder if their arms aren't falling off. Thompson and Reyes are really fighting over the same spot and Thompson appears to be gaining the edge.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thompson
He's a sinkerball pitcher with no other pitches really. Brandon Webb has a much better sinker and some other offerings and even he gets shelled sometimes.
by Carps on Jul 3, 2007 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW
His sinker, when on, is really heavy. He gets a lot of ground balls. If he knew he was going to throw every 5 days I would expect him to become even more consistent.
I have to agree with Hardcore, give Thompson the spot, he could be a sold 4 or even 3 starting pitcher for years to come. Guys like that are worth about 7 million a year these days.
by ZiggyG on Jul 3, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
I like Thompson. I want to see him have an opportunity, but not at the expense of Reyes. That just doesn't make sense to me.
by Carps on Jul 3, 2007 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AGREED
thompson has a very good sinker. that is all he has.
so you're right - he should be "playing every day," or at least close to every day.
in other words, he should be in the bullpen.
by nycbirdo on Jul 3, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See that's the thing
Looper
These are the "locks" really what can we expect from them? "Mostly harmless?" What can we hope? "Better than expected?" Add in Thompson and you have a group of players that you should expect to be a .500 group and pitch like it as well.
If you are going to a street race why take the Ford Focus just because it doesn't break down? Sure the 'Vette might not finish the race because it's cranky but just because you know you will finish doesn't mean you will win. And that's what I see. You want to take the Focus because it always starts and the 'Vette doesn't. The only way you can win is if you use the 'Vette and at least you'll look good doing it.
by Harknights on Jul 3, 2007 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anthony Reyes has 2 pitches
Everything else he has thrown this year has been garbage (sloppy curve/slider thingy and 2-seamer).
Dubbing him a corvette is disengenious. Justin Verlander is a corvette.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Unit scratched
Won't be starting tonight, back acting up worse than expected.
Instead, face RHP Petit, decent minor league prospect. If the Cards get to him, I'd imagine it would have to be early.
Best part is, Duncan will stay in the lineup because of it. Sounds like it will probably be the same lineup with Juan replacing Ludwick.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 4:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Petit's a control pitcher
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bottom 3, mil 1, pit 0
by nycbirdo on Jul 3, 2007 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Carpenter
by awpierce on Jul 3, 2007 5:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Carp gets shelled
Two errors behind him didn't help. He was yanked in the second.
by DCGreg on Jul 3, 2007 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's not getting shelled
i'm much more concerned about how he feels afterwards.
by nycbirdo on Jul 3, 2007 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reyes and run support
Reyes takes over for Wellemeyer:
- 5/30 - Reyes trades getting shut out vs SD for 8 runs of support & gets the win, same as Welly
- 6/5 - Reyes stunk against DET, so 4 runs by the offense doesn't get the job done vs CIN; Anthony & the Cards lose, compared to an ND for Welly but a W for the team
- 6/10 - No major difference (5+ IP, 5 ER) between the two, Reyes gets the win, same as Todd
- 6/16 - Wellemeyer didn't get out of the 4th in the blowout game, but Reyes survives five innings after a 5-run first; Reyes gets a win, Welly gets an ND
- 6/20 - Neither pitcher sees the 6th, but Reyes gives up one more run; offense never ties the game, Reyes gets the loss
- 6/26 - Good performance by Reyes, but the extra run allowed prevents extra innings and the team win, Reyes gets a No Decision
- 5/13 - Justin Germano still shuts us out, so Todd gets stuck with the loss
- 5/19 - Wellemeyer doesn't pitch long enough for a decision, but he doesn't put us in as big of a hole; Cardinals win!
- 5/25 - No difference in results, Wellemeyer gets the loss
- 6/17 - Wellemeyer can't hold it together to see the 5th, but the offense rallies, so Todd gets an ND
- 6/22 - 5 runs v 4 runs; who cares when we can't get a single run off the ageless Jamie Moyer; Todd with the loss
- 6/27 - One run allowed is still too many against Glavine and the Mets, Wellemeyer gets the L
I understand that Reyes has a ton of problems, many of which are of his own doing (and almost of all of which are his own responsibility). But I think our view of him and his view of himself would be greatly altered had he received a reasonable amount of luck so far this season.
by Solanus on Jul 3, 2007 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pitchers hitting > Kennedy - no takers?
by Solanus on Jul 3, 2007 5:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
at what point does the team
by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2007 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically
by Solanus on Jul 3, 2007 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?!?
by willievinceterry on Jul 3, 2007 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In two months with us last year,
Kennedy has been really bad, but not that bad. April was -.767, May was decent at -.253, and June returned to ugly at -.702.
by Solanus on Jul 3, 2007 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spiezio
by CardFaninVA on Jul 3, 2007 6:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not to
by Harknights on Jul 3, 2007 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could Tagg Bozied play 3B?
by Valatan on Jul 3, 2007 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
Joe Mather was apparently originally a 3B. Baseball cube still has that as his position, but he hasn't played much there since 2002 apparently, in Johnson City (unless he got time there this year- eric/azr, you guys remember anything there?)
juan richardson hasn't been terrible this year for springfield either, though he was better last year. Probably wouldn't be any worse than Brendan Ryan...
by SleepyCA on Jul 3, 2007 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rico Washington
by DCGreg on Jul 4, 2007 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rico's out
http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070628/BLOGS01/70628028
by SleepyCA on Jul 4, 2007 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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