Game 94 Open Thread: July 21, 2007

by lboros on Jul 21, 2007 9:43 AM EDT in St. Louis Cardinals News


looper	carlyle
7-7, 4.60	4-2, 4.00

GAME TIME 6:05 CDT

pretty lively discussion at the top of last night's game thread about the reasons for adam wainwright's recent success. somebody attributed it to a higher groundball rate; sure enough, last night wainwright had them beating it into the dirt all evening (13 of 19 balls in play were groundballs).

but that's just one game. if we look at a larger data sample, the theory doesn't hold up: wainwright actually has been inducing more flyballs lately, not grounders. the numbers below come from wainwright's game log at fangraphs.com:

	ERA	GB%	FB%	LD%	BABIP
first 9	6.02	50	32	18	.346
last 10	2.82	49	38	13	.252

more important, batters have been hitting significantly fewer line drives against him --- just 13 percent of the balls in play over the last 10 starts. we can't expect the rate to remain so low; league average is about 19 percent, which is about where wainwright's line-drive rate stood during his period of bad pitching. going forward we should expect a few more line drives, and a commensurate downtick in his performance; the odds are against his maintaining a 2.82 era for the rest of the year.

my own opinion --- just an educated guess --- is that the main difference between wainwright's first 9 starts and his last 10 is pretty straightforward: in the more recent starts, he's been able to throw his curveball for strikes. we're a little behind in our wainwright pitch-charting, but once his data are up to date i will test that theory and see if it holds up.

it's hard to root against the atlanta pitcher tonight. buddy carlyle has been toiling away in pro ball since 1996, throwing more than 1100 minor-league innings --- but only 54 in the big leagues through last season. he has doubled that total in 2007 as an emergency back-end starter. after 5 shabby outings (1-2, 6.11 era), things have suddenly come together for him: he's 3-0 with a 1.73 era over the last month. jason simontaachi-type story; i hope the cards beat him, but you like to see guys like this have their moment.

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Comments

Last night's performance

I know that there's also been some anxiety about Wainwright's relatively low strikeout rate as well. Last night's performance, therefore, should be seen as an especially good one -- lots of ground balls, a K per IP. Sounds downright Carpenter-esque.

More importantly, with the rotation experiencing a lot of turmoil, and questions about how to approach the offseason, Wainwright has definitely solidified his place in the starting rotation, IMO. There are a lot of questions about next year's rotation, but I think we can safely say that Wainer belongs there and will be a solid starter for us. Now who the other 4 will be, I just can't say at this point.

by chuckb on Jul 21, 2007 10:27 AM EDT reply actions

Yesterday was positive.

I didn't get to see the game but one thing that surprised me during the recap was the number of hitters he just threw fastballs by for strike 3. I have not seen that from him in a while.

by DriverZn on Jul 21, 2007 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions

He's definitely got the stuff

and the history to indicate that he'll be able to strike more out as his career progresses. I think he'll need to in order to become a top-notch starter.

by chuckb on Jul 21, 2007 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree about the K's and groundball combo

being exciting. I also thought one thing was really intersting. From Leach's story on MLB, the lights Yadi was having to look at made for an interesting test of both Wainwright's strategic abilities to adjust to an unexpected problem and his technical abiities to adjust his gameplan and then pull it off in very limiting circumstances.

Because Yadi couldn't see his pitches at certain angles and positions (blinded by the lights), Wainwright had to figure out how to work around that and demonstrated great control over location in being able to do so. As a result of the lights behind him, he did not have the whole strike zone available to him (not if he wanted Yadi to catch his pitches). That meant he had to change the game plan as they went along and had to work within a very confined space--relying on the accuracy of his pitches and his ability to shuffle his pitching patterns.

I thought that was amazing. I also continue to think his ability to withstand all kinds of different kinds of pressure is one of the most promising things about him as a pitcher. I just wish we could take a tiny bit of his pitching DNA and inject it into Kip Wells. Kip has great stuff too and I do think he's smart. He just needs to work on that boldness and confidence. Perhaps Adam could help him out on that front.

by nycardfan on Jul 21, 2007 11:28 AM EDT reply actions

Leach's story...

was the darnedest thing I've heard in a l-o-n-g time... who ever heard of a catcher "losing" a pitch in the lights? That ginormous video board at Turner Field needs to be raised about a foot or two. (Yes, I know it would cost mega-bucks... but what in the world were they doing putting it in dead center field in the first place???)

I wonder if anybody else has had the same problem? If they had, you'd think there would have been complaints to the MLB office by now!

Oh, well... Atta boy, Wainer! Go get 'em tonight, Loop! (Is our starting rotation now "Wainer and Loop and... and... and... Ah, poop!") [evil grin on the Goalie!]

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Jul 21, 2007 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe there

have been complaints. MLB sent someone to check out the batter's eye at Busch after complaints. Was something done to change it? I really don't know because that was the last I heard about it. Maybe those kind of things don't get lots of action, especially due to the cost involved.

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 21, 2007 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Well

The "Carp and Soup, the rest are poop" rotation ended up working last year, so, yeah, let's go with that again.

Boooo-urns.

by Alxfritz on Jul 21, 2007 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions

loop and wain

and pray for rain

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 21, 2007 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Wainwright being nine feet tall

may have something to do with it.

His release point is higher than it is for most pitchers.

by whopperman on Jul 21, 2007 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Swagger

I think that Wagonmaker's boldness and swagger come, to a great extent, from 2 things.
1. Beltran walking back to the dug-out after feeling his knee's buckle and the weight of a bat not leaving a shoulder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYBVBfU0nX0

2. Inge missing, possibly, the biggest pitch of his life by about a foot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRWUeIWgSGw&mode=related&search=

I'll never get tired of those two replays, sorry i'm not good at doing links on here.

Since there has been so much negativity around here lately, let's just raise a glass to events like those mentioned above, the great comments about Edwards last fall, and to a healthy Carp, Mulder, Jimmy, et al.. next yr.

Happy weekend to all.

by toris34 on Jul 21, 2007 12:21 PM EDT reply actions

He seems

naturally confident, but not over-confident, as witnessed in these post-game comments:

"I expect to pitch like I've been pitching, not like I was pitching before," Wainwright said. "Those last 10 starts are where I think I should be."

It helps when his curve and cutter are working like they were last night.

by player2bnamedl8r on Jul 21, 2007 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks for the LINK!!!

That 0-2 bender to Beltran is one of my top 3 baseball moments ever.

Stones. Really big stones on that Wainwright kid.

Good pitching will beat good hitting any time, and vice versa. ~Bob Veale, 1966

by bukowski on Jul 21, 2007 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Chills

I love love watching the exact moment that he gives up on it and then like a frame later he realizes it's going to be a strike.

Pujols currently < Career godliness.

by joker24 on Jul 21, 2007 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, I was watching this recently

and noticed that Molina hit the ground with his mit, which typically signals to the pitcher to bury the curve. However, in this case the curve was up and broke into the zone.

I'm starting to think Molina deeked Beltran into thinking they were wasting that pitch. Beltran never looked like he was going to swing.

by Big Red on Jul 21, 2007 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions

thanks for the link

that never gets old...

Just remember -- if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

by RosevilleRedbird on Jul 21, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions

line drive rate

lboros, I understand the prevailing wisdom that a pitcher cannot control BABIP. But your comment about WW's line drive rate regressing to the mean seems to suggest that a pitcher can't really control line drive rate as well.

That seems counterintuitive to me; a batter hits a line drive when he's squared up on the ball, and it seems to me that the definition of a good (contact) pitcher is someone who is able to avoid that.

But then I checked the numbers on fangraphs, and sure enough: there is no real correlation between a pitcher's LD% and their RS/9. So even if a pitcher can control his LD%, it doesn't really correlate with preventing runs. Another lesson learned from VEB.

by Hastur on Jul 21, 2007 12:29 PM EDT reply actions

If pitchers

had significant control over their LD% then they'd have significant control over their BABIP, since LD fall in for hits most of the time. BABIP is a repeatable skill to some degree, and extreme FB and GB pitchers can limit their LD% some, but really not much. Getting too far away from the mean in either case is a pretty good test for luck.

We can see that Adam's been lucky lately, and unlucky in the beginning from lb's post. I think that we're seeing more just regression to the mean than an establishing of the curveball, and that his 4.27 FIP on the year actually represents his talent level pretty well at this point in his career. I do think the curve is part of it though, so we'll see what the numbers say.

by plh903 on Jul 21, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions

I found Adam's start

encouraging as well. Being able to adapt to circumstances beyond your control, like the situation with the background lights last night, seems like a huge asset. There isn't really a way to measure that quality, is there? It is my impression that what sets some pitchers apart from the pack is the ability to adapt. The great ones, like Carpenter, find a way to get hitters out. For example, in Game 4 of the NLDS last year, the strike zone was a mystery and Chris walked in a run. But in the next inning, he came out and pitched to contact and got 3 straight groundball outs. A difficult set of circumstances presented themselves and Chris found a way to work around them and then he was on a roll. I saw that in Adam last night and think it is a real positive.

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 21, 2007 12:36 PM EDT reply actions

Yep...

I think we're seeing our defacto ace for this year and next come into his own. Bad as this season has gone, Wagonmaker's development has been a true highlight.

by rockin redbird on Jul 21, 2007 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Pretty off topic, Al

With all of the exhausting drama concerning Anthony Reyes, I think we should be glad that Scott Boras hasn't done to him as he has w/ some of his other clients. Although, actually... maybe it couldn't hurt.

(note - this is from Gammons who from time to time can be a bit of a mouth piece for Red Sox management. I'm not saying he's lying, but it comes off sounding like he has an agenda.)

Boooo-urns.

by Alxfritz on Jul 21, 2007 1:28 PM EDT reply actions

The article calls it Gammons' theory

but I'd bet my next paycheck it's the Red Sox brass' theory that Gammons reported on. Regardless, it wouldn't surprise me if it's true.

by chuckb on Jul 21, 2007 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah Boras really screws guys up

Especially that Weaver guy the Angels have, that Jeff Weaver guy will never have a career, Danks is a travesty what they've done to him, that Ian Kennedy is only chewing up AA in his first full year, good thing for the Cardinals that the good Zambrano got messed with, Matsuzaka wasn't even worth 10 million, Lowe what a joke, I can't believe how bad Maddux has been for the last 20 years, Kevin Brown was awful, Gagne only had 84 straight saves, Millwood is a nobody, Kenny Rogers a nothing. Yeah Teixeira is really suffering from not listening to the Rangers with a .306/.411/.552 line.

Hansen in ST had 95 with sink and a devastating slider.....and no idea where it was going. That's not really mechanical. And it's not really a shock to see a prospect flame out.

Did he see Zito last year? He's been on the decline for three years.

Did he watch Hochevar in the futures game throwing 95 mph 4-seams? Did he not look past the ERA at his 94/26 K/BB? Or the fact that a sinkerballer isn't going to have a .96 GB/FB?

This is one of the first times I can think of where I completely disagree with Gammons. Believe me I'm not the biggest fan of Boras in the least, but the guy is good at what he does for a reason to the point where I would bet his guys do know more than teams.

Pujols currently < Career godliness.

by joker24 on Jul 21, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Ron Santo has completely given up

in some of the most disgusting homerism I've heard from him, today he said he had been working in the cage with Rich Hill on his hitting and was taking credit for his success hitting.

I can't imagine any other radio/TV personality doing anything like that or claiming to do anything like that on air. Perhaps jokingly, saying they did this or that because we said they would but not actively seeking out a player to help them.

I know a lot of people give Santo a pass because he was a former player and 'gosh darn it he loves his Cubbies' but that was utterly pathetic.

Of course, not as pathetic as the DBacks offense is at this point. They've done us no favors this past week with their inept offense.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 21, 2007 2:33 PM EDT reply actions

Your first mistake is

listening to a Cubs radio broadcast. And I beleive your second mistake is the same mistake I'm making. I think we're both watching the Cubs and their march up the standings a little too closely.

Maybe if we just ignore it for a little while and then look back in about 3 weeks, we'll see that they've completely shot their load against an unbelievably soft portion of their schedule and weren't able to add anything to their roster since they keep paying other teams to take the guys they don't want.

Btw, I wish that Jones deal would have gone through a couple of weeks ago. They would have regretted it.

by Big Red on Jul 21, 2007 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Jones has kept that team going

much like Juan is doing for the Cardinals right now. If they had given him away, they'd be no better than the Brewers right now.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 21, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Cubs

Ok here's my take, the Cubs have been playing at Wrigley for what seems like a month now, and playing against some of the weakest hitting clubs in the NL (Astros, Giants, Diamondbacks. And before that they played against the two of the worst teams in the NL (Pirates & Nationals) on the road.

No doubt they have been on fire, but they haven't exactly been playing contenders over the past 3 weeks. I'm curious to see how they fare against teams that can hit like the Mets, Phillies, Brewers and yes even the Cards.

No doubt they have a good team, but I think they are going to fall back to Earth here pretty soon.
At least let's hope.

by KYCards on Jul 21, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions

The Giants have the advantage

the rest of this weekend as far as pitching matchups. I would NOT be shocked to see the Brewers get swept this weekend with the Barry Bonds stuff floating around them.

As I type this, the DBacks go stupid on offense. They did a double steal to get runners at 2nd and 3rd with 1 out, and then the batter (who leads the NL in SAC flies) bunts for no reason in the air to the pitcher. 2 outs.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 21, 2007 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Totally

I'm watching the game right now and I KNOW Brenley is loving ever stupid move the D-Backs make.

They've outplayed the Cubs in both game and crap the bed everytime they get close to scoring a run.

They have 2 runs on 6 hits, yet the first run was scored on a ground out to the ss and the second was scored on a fielders choice at 2nd.

by Big Red on Jul 21, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions

The Diamondbacks

over the last 7 days (before today):

43 for 217
.198 BA
.332 SLG
18 RBI

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 21, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions

They're prone to huge slumps

b/c they swing at absolutely everything. If it's close, they're a-hackin'!

by chuckb on Jul 21, 2007 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Pinella is getting too aggressive

with Ramirez in the on-deck circle, Sweet Lou tried to once against steal second base to get the runner in scoring position. Instead, it was a strike em out, throw em out DP to end the inning.

Ramirez will lead off in a 2-2 game (baring the DBacks bumble their way into some runs).

I feel like registering for the DBacks blog and asking the site moderator to send an email to the DBacks front office telling them that use the handle part to hit with.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 21, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Ram was batting

which makes the move even more strange.

by Big Red on Jul 21, 2007 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions

DBacks carry 3-2 lead

into the Top of the 9th thanks to a Stephen Drew dinger.

Aramis Ramirez has left 6 men on base today.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 21, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Cubs lose

Ron sounds like his dog just got runover.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 21, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions

I've got the Sox-Sox game

But like the Giants chances with a 1-run lead and Lincecum pitching.

75 degrees outside, this could be a real good day!

by liam on Jul 21, 2007 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Too bad

I don't have this Brewers game. Looks like a pitching duel developing. Lincecum hasn't allowed a hit and Bush's struck out four in 3IP already.

by liam on Jul 21, 2007 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Not the duel it looked like

I think Lincecum may have had a complete game if the bottom of the 9th hadn't dragged on so long.

Table's set, Cardinals. Start making up ground tonight!

by liam on Jul 21, 2007 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions

First off,

Ronnie was one of the great 3B of his era, and I have great respect for him. Why he isn't in the HOF is beyond me(if anyone says it's because he's a Cub, I'll reach through the screen and punch them in the neck). And what's wrong with him talking to Hill about his hitting and taking credit for it? I've heard Al say similar things about talking to Cardinal pitchers on occasion.
And as far as homerism is concerned, what do you call what Shannon, and Hrabosky do? Is it because they're "our guys" that makes it ok? If I'm listening to the Cards broadcast, and Shannon is doing the PBP, I have to have Gameday running so I know what's going on in the game; you sure as hell can't tell by listening to him.

"It's always about money; anyone who says it's not is lying."- Gene Simmons

by cardsrul on Jul 21, 2007 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions

pat hughes is ok.

by ortic jones on Jul 21, 2007 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Hughes is actually pretty good

By far the best announcer in Chicago (granted his competition is not all that great), well some would say Pat Foley but we won't get in to that. But, he's most impressive considering he's doing the games around Ron.

They don't call it "The Pat and Ron Show" for nothing.

by Big Red on Jul 21, 2007 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Shelley Duncan

Just heard he hit his first major league home run today.

Congrats to the whole family.

by liam on Jul 21, 2007 4:07 PM EDT reply actions

Let's go

It looks like this should be a good matchup. Maybe a 5-4 game, around there. The Cards may not be in contention this year, but they can start playing the spoiler against Atlanta. Still would like to see a win today.

BeegcellentBaseball

by beegcellent on Jul 21, 2007 4:17 PM EDT reply actions

XM

its been mentioned before about other broadcasters we like to hear.

Here area few of mine in no order...

Last night I didnt mind the braves guys especially as they clamored over AW's curve...had goos stories about him and other braves in minor leagues.

I like uker, just cause he jacks around..never forget him giving a smoking add when jeff tabaka came in to pitch fo rthe cards...

ones i don't care for
reds broadcasters they just suck..they go on and on worse than shannon and the innings over...

this list is incomplete but as i listen to more road games on XM ill have more.

07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Jul 21, 2007 5:10 PM EDT reply actions

my favorite radio guy

is that old man in Seattle.
When Ichiro hits a triple it gets spine-tingling.

by CurtFlood on Jul 21, 2007 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions

lineups per Yahoo

Birds

A. Miles 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .274
S. Schumaker rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .305
A. Pujols 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .319
C. Duncan lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .289
J. Edmonds cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .239
A. Kennedy 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .223
G. Bennett c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .225
B. Ryan ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .327
B. Looper p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .143

Native American Stereotypes

W. Harris lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .317
E. Renteria ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .329
C. Jones 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .341
A. Jones cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .218
B. McCann c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .269
J. Francoeur rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .291
K. Johnson 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .290
S. Thorman 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .215
B. Carlyle p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .062

Acquire some runs!

by madding on Jul 21, 2007 5:40 PM EDT reply actions

Im putting money on a Jimmy Ballgame dinger

and a Cards win tonight.

Cubs blow

by Where is that Juan guy on Jul 21, 2007 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions

that would be nice

by the way, does it make sense to anyone that Miles is playing 3rd and Ryan is playing SS?

Acquire some runs!

by madding on Jul 21, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I would assume

it's because Ryan's got better range, a better arm from the hole and has been turning a sweet double play. Besides, Ryan's the better defender and ss usually sees more action in a game than a third baseman.

by Big Red on Jul 21, 2007 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions

it's just frustrating

because Ryan has looked really good at 3rd, and seeing Miles (though he had few chances) at 3rd the other night... looked like he was rainbowing the ball over to 1st.

Acquire some runs!

by madding on Jul 21, 2007 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions

It absolutely does to me

we need to find out if we have a SS for next year and the only way to find out is to stick him there. Additionally, many of the throws SS's must make are as far or farther than the throws a 3B must make. I want to see Ryan at SS as often as possible.

by chuckb on Jul 21, 2007 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with Ryan at SS

but my other point is -- unless my tired old eyes are failing me -- Juan is not in the line-up. If so, this is one of the rare times I benefit from the LaRussa tendency to give the guy with a hot bat a mysterious day off

by CurtFlood on Jul 21, 2007 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Lotsa Lefties

Carlyle's splits versus lefties shows him striking out them at a faster rate than right-handers, but he also walks them much more and gets hit harder and more often by lefties.

by liam on Jul 21, 2007 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions

not to put the jinx on us

but it sure would be a good game to win, with the Cubbies unable to rally up today and the Brews being shut out.

by CurtFlood on Jul 21, 2007 6:58 PM EDT reply actions

What happened to Loopers fastball?

When did he becomes a high 80s fastball guy? Didn't he used to be 92-95?

by DriverZn on Jul 21, 2007 7:18 PM EDT reply actions

You'd expect him to take a little off

When he's got to throw for a coupla hours instead of ten minutes or so.

by liam on Jul 21, 2007 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions

could've been worse

that k of andruw was big time

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 21, 2007 7:25 PM EDT reply actions

And how

We were gonna have to score some runs tonight anyways.

by liam on Jul 21, 2007 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Announcers awol

I get used to Shannon being missing on Cardinal radio, so I guess there is no use in asking.
But does anyone know what happened to George Grande on the Reds' TV network? They have imported, uh, some guy from Cleveland, who uh, says "uh" a lot.

by CurtFlood on Jul 21, 2007 7:30 PM EDT reply actions

almost an amazing play by Ryan

after he drops what should have been an out at 2nd.

get the DP LOOP. get the DP.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jul 21, 2007 7:40 PM EDT reply actions

okay

I'm glad Ryan is at short now.

Acquire some runs!

by madding on Jul 21, 2007 7:40 PM EDT reply actions

I am starting to like Ryan more and more

If he can keep hitting, I have no problem with him in the starting lineup.

by DriverZn on Jul 21, 2007 7:41 PM EDT reply actions

poop LOOP

lefty's still hit him hard.

where's YADDA? is Tony mad at him for the first inning last night?

i dont know who the SportsSouth main guy is, but he's an idiot. joe simpson used to be pretty good on TBS, now he just agree's with everything that moron says.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jul 21, 2007 7:44 PM EDT reply actions

Dear Braden,

I appreciate that you're containing the damage, and that you're giving up one run at a time, rather than choking up a hundred of them, but, please get some outs. If you could do that, that'd be great. Ok?

Sincerely,

Valatan

by Valatan on Jul 21, 2007 7:45 PM EDT reply actions

Loop

time to stop f'ing around. now.

Acquire some runs!

by madding on Jul 21, 2007 7:47 PM EDT reply actions

Danger LOOP! DANGER!

could be the ball game right here folks.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jul 21, 2007 7:50 PM EDT reply actions

CRAP

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jul 21, 2007 7:51 PM EDT reply actions

This is the worst-case scenario with

the whole pitch-to-contact thing. A lotta seeing-eye singles that should be double plays.

by CardFaninVA on Jul 21, 2007 7:52 PM EDT reply actions

Yep, you can make them hit it but

you can't make them hit it into a fielders glove.....

by jillsinmo on Jul 21, 2007 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Crap

GB, run scores GB, more runs score

by DriverZn on Jul 21, 2007 7:52 PM EDT reply actions

they've shown a lot of Tony&Dave

in the dugout this series, and i can't believe how old they both look. seriously, they both look old and pissed off.

i guess thats what happens when the Cards have this kind of season. you age quickly.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jul 21, 2007 7:56 PM EDT reply actions

Jeeze

Gameday shows strike three to Skip well out of the zone.

My eyeball saw it that way, too.

by liam on Jul 21, 2007 8:05 PM EDT reply actions

Just got in

Looper has a WHIP of 4.0 through 2 innings.

I'm heading back out.

Future Redbirds

by azruavatar on Jul 21, 2007 8:08 PM EDT reply actions

I'm heading out, too

Unfortunately, I'll be pouring back frosties with some Braves fans.

by liam on Jul 21, 2007 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Lest I be branded a pessimist

The company will only make the comeback that much sweeter.

by liam on Jul 21, 2007 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Yay! Beer!

by jillsinmo on Jul 21, 2007 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions

So not good, Loop.

Sparks of Dementia Still Demented.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Jul 21, 2007 8:16 PM EDT reply actions

Comeon

6-1. The Braves aren't that good. The Cards may not be in contention but you've gotta hate to see play like this. Now 7-1. This is not good. I'd like to see the long ball from Pujols to lead off next inning as some sort of consolation. At least make Atlanta work hard for a win.
http://bryle.freehostia.com

by beegcellent on Jul 21, 2007 8:25 PM EDT reply actions

news flash

the braves are this good, and the Cardinals are this bad.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jul 21, 2007 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions

This is what you get

When you have a starter with an average fastball (high 80s) tossing it into the zone with the intent of letting the other side wack it. Some days the fielders catch it, and some days are like today. We have 3 runs through 4. Thats better than our average.

by DriverZn on Jul 21, 2007 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions

DUNK CRUSHED THAT BALL

DUDE

you cant beat the crap out of the Cardinals. but you cant beat Albert & DUNK.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jul 21, 2007 8:36 PM EDT reply actions

Oh, dear.......

Buddy Carlyle is beating us with his arm and his bat! I don't like this......

by jillsinmo on Jul 21, 2007 8:51 PM EDT reply actions

i really miss Edgar

come on Percy. mix in a curve or something. stop throwing it high and right down the freakin middle.

like that. what the FRACK!

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jul 21, 2007 8:58 PM EDT reply actions

I wanna see...

30 runs. At this point who cares. It's pretty pathetic, so do it with style lol.

by Pujols for MVP on Jul 21, 2007 9:01 PM EDT reply actions

this is embarrassing

flat out embarrassing.

way to defend your title Cardinals.

what a freaking joke. i can't believe i'm watching this.

oh how the mighty have fallen.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jul 21, 2007 9:01 PM EDT reply actions

I can't believe Springer batted.

Argh...

by Petkovsek on Jul 21, 2007 9:50 PM EDT reply actions

I wonder if...

Tony did that because Bobby Cox pretty much pulled all (or some) of his starting players. Not that I think the Cardnials could have come back, but letting Springer hit pretty much ensured they wouldn't.

by DiscoJer on Jul 21, 2007 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Either that

Or he didn't want to burn his extra inning guy.

by whopperman on Jul 21, 2007 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions

unfortanetly i predicted this somewhat last night

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/comments/2007/7/20/18953/2213/108#108

so maybe they win tommorrow?

07 Cards more drama than a daytime soap

by punchinjudy on Jul 21, 2007 9:55 PM EDT reply actions

Skippy, batting π for the season

by Valatan on Jul 21, 2007 10:29 PM EDT reply actions

and the game mercifully ends

that was an UGLY and a EMBARRASSING loss. the Cardinals have had too many of those this season.

i swear i've said that about 30 times this season.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jul 21, 2007 10:31 PM EDT reply actions

gah

I've said it once, and I'll say it before: trade Looper for anything. His salary is not worth it.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jul 21, 2007 10:39 PM EDT reply actions

Disagree

Nah, they don't need to dump his contract on someone else. They need to PUT HIM BACK IN THE BULLPEN WHERE HE BELONGS.

This starter experiment was cute for a month. It's obvious he cannot be a MLB starter at this point. He had quality starts 7 of his first 8 appearances, by which time he'd racked up a season's worth of innings. Since then, he's had four quality starts in 10 tries, and he's been bombed as often as not.

He'll still be fine in the pen. The starter experiment has failed. (IMO at least)

by whopperman on Jul 21, 2007 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Tipping Pitches???

Was Looper really that bad? Are teams lining up our pitchers knowing that they are going to be focusing on the bottom half of the strike zone. Wouldn't that explain all the blowouts where we give up runs with hits but not many homers? Am I wrong or do we need to start mixing it up a bit.

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Jul 21, 2007 10:50 PM EDT reply actions

I have often wondered that myself....all the

pitchers pound low in the zone, they have the same pitching patterns, they never come up, they rarely come in and only Wainwright has good enough pitches that it doesn't matter--the rest of the staff doesn't. Oh, here I go again, but why would you not want a pitcher like Reyes was when he came up--he was fearless about coming in high and tight- after seeing low junk from the other starters. They might not feel so comfortable about waiting on a pitch to hit, which they know they are going to get. We are getting gutted by teams that are filled with good hitters-Phillies and Braves are recent examples-and we can just get by on teams like Tampa and Arizona and sometimes San Francisco. We caught a lucky break because NY was in a slump when we were there--and they still beat us 2 out 3 when we had 3 well-pitched games. I have nothing against Mr. Looper, but he has not impressed me as a starter since about his 7th or 8th game. LaDunc has all these charts and stats but guess what-so do the other teams. Now I don't know if the Braves can hit a sinker, but I'm sure they're already prepared for it. Thompson could be in for a tough night.....

by jillsinmo on Jul 21, 2007 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Did you see Wainwrights strikeouts?

Most were either on high fastballs or low cureballs. Hitters couldn't ignore half the strike zone with him like they do Looper, Thompson, and Maroth. If I were a hitter with skill I would simply go up there and look for a low sinker and try to smack it the other way. You know agains most our staff you are goign to see at least one of those pitches every at bat.

by DriverZn on Jul 22, 2007 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions