Reyes gone?

I like Victorino too

So do the Phills. I would jump all over a Reyes for Victorino trade. I don't think the Phills would do it straight up.

by nybirdfan on Jul 2, 2007 10:09 AM EDT reply actions

Victorino

in a Cardinal's uniform would absolutely make my day.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jul 2, 2007 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Did you see

that catch he made last night? Incredible effort diving (and I mean stage diving type) effort!

Dont give up boys!

by yer dog first on Jul 3, 2007 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions

That trade is beyond horrible.

Cardinal fan from Washington

by JI on Jul 2, 2007 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Phillies wouldn't trade Victorino...

and I'm sure LaDunc would prefer the "veteran" Pat Burrell.......

by jillsinmo on Jul 2, 2007 10:39 AM EDT reply actions

Yeah, burell's horrible

with the consistent 30 HR power and the career 115 OPS+. He makes a lot of money, but you could do a lot worse than Burell.

by Valatan on Jul 2, 2007 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions

if we could get burrell

for reyes straight up, with the phils kicking in part of burrell's contract, i might even do that.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 2, 2007 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions

I like Burrell

but the problem is we already have a 115-120 OPS+ with 30-homer power in LF. Burrell makes Duncan look like Roberto Clememte with the glove too, there's no place to play him.

by plh903 on Jul 3, 2007 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions

Reyes is gone......his presence here raises some uncomfortable questions for LaDunc, and we all know the baseball geniuses cannot under any circumstances be questioned, because they after all are future hall of famers. (and yes, I AM being sarcastic)

by jillsinmo on Jul 2, 2007 10:41 AM EDT reply actions

Could he be gone today?

A roster move needs to be made.. maybe him for an outfielder, then send down Schumaker

by stltrav09 on Jul 2, 2007 10:55 AM EDT reply actions

IT IS TODAY....

Probably announce it just before the game today.....

by jillsinmo on Jul 2, 2007 11:00 AM EDT reply actions

LaRussa has told the DBacks that Wellemeyer is

starting Tuesday, however he continues to say that the starter for Tuesday is 'undecided' to the media.

LaRussa changed this weekends starters 3 times, according to Brenneman on the radio even after he had told the Reds who would be pitching.

It would make no sense for LaRussa to continue to say the role is undecided unless something is 'up'.

Perhaps Reyes is being traded for a starting pitcher, perhaps Reyes is staying up and Kip Wells is being released. Who knows.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 2, 2007 11:04 AM EDT reply actions

hopefully that does happen, I'd like to see

Wells out of a cards uniform, and why not into a cubs uniform? that would be awesome because when we play the cubs he is surely going to give up atleast 5 runs

What Would Walt Jocketty Do? WWWJD Man!

by kyle man on Jul 2, 2007 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions

That's what we all said

about Jason Marquis...and he shut the Cardinals down.

by blove121 on Jul 2, 2007 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions

wait till the second half

marquis will suck again and kip has had a history of being lousy, marquis was somewhat solid when we got him

What Would Walt Jocketty Do? WWWJD Man!

by kyle man on Jul 2, 2007 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Kip

has looked pretty solid as a reliever, so we might as well give him a shot.

I know 4 innings of no ER is a small sample sized, but if he can continue to put up numbers in the pen, he could be of US to this team.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jul 2, 2007 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions

Assuming Looper's okay,

whoever keeps the rotation spot (Reyes or Wellemeyer) is likely only keeping it for a couple starts, until Carp gets back. We all know that Carp, Looper, Maroth, and Wainwright are all going to be in the rotation, so it's down to Thompson vs. Wellemeyer vs. Reyes for the 5th spot, after the ASB. All 3 have shown encouraging signs recently, but it'd be hard to bump Thompson after his last couple starts. So, the question seems to be whether Wellemeyer or Reyes gets 2-3 starts in the rotation until Carp comes back.

by CardFaninVA on Jul 2, 2007 11:38 AM EDT reply actions

Here's a proposition.....

If the Cardinals really think Reyes is not a good pitcher, and can't be a good pitcher, go ahead and trade him to the Brewers or the Cubs; then we can beat up on him......you think they're willing to take that chance? Especially the Brewers--they have a lot of excess players and a very good farm system....surely they have someone we want.

by jillsinmo on Jul 2, 2007 11:58 AM EDT reply actions

Brewers farm system is stacked

I live in the town of their AA franchise, and I saw something in the paper the other day:

Their MLB club leads their division
Their AAA club won the first half of their division (ensuring playoffs)
Their AA club won the first half of their division
Their High A club won the first half of their division
Their Low A club won the first half of their division

That is just ridiculous.

"Tyler's gonna bust a nut on some babies tonight!" - Tyler Johnson (as told by Alex Fritz)

by Mr Redbird on Jul 2, 2007 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions

fifteen years of losing will do that

not to mention that Richie Sexon = six prospects trade.

by Valatan on Jul 2, 2007 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions

That's true, but

they still had to find, draft, sign and develop that talent that fills their system. There are other losing team that have not done it as well.....

by jillsinmo on Jul 2, 2007 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions

For example

The Pirates.

by Baseball addict on Jul 3, 2007 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions

wow, that IS ridiculous

and scary for the next several years.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jul 2, 2007 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions

AAA doesn't do halves

But yes, they're in first place.

by whopperman on Jul 2, 2007 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions

I knew I'd mess up something with that

Thanks for the catch :)

"Tyler's gonna bust a nut on some babies tonight!" - Tyler Johnson (as told by Alex Fritz)

by Mr Redbird on Jul 2, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions

And 7 of their 8

regulars are from their farm system. They all grew up together......they ain't going down

by jillsinmo on Jul 2, 2007 12:54 PM EDT reply actions

victorino and bourn

are fourth outfielders, and the Cardinals have plenty of fourth outfielders Of The Future. If the Cardinals traded a useful player, especially a cheap starting pitcher, for either one of them, I would have to kidnap Walt Jocketty on general principle.

by DanUpBaby on Jul 2, 2007 2:43 PM EDT reply actions

you think so?

Victorino - 25 stolen bases, 9 HR, 34 RBI, .271 avg., 26 years old.

I'm sorry, but that'd be a pretty nice sparkplug for our offense, and could be a keeper for years to come. Those are very Carl Crawfordesque numbers for a much cheaper price.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jul 2, 2007 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Since when

is .271/.338/.410 acceptable from a corner outfielder? The stolen bases are nice, but they seem flukish since he's never done it at so high a rate before. Crawford is a year younger, hits for a higher average and more power, and steals more bases. He's Crawfordesque like cubic zirconium is diamondesque.

This offense doesn't need a sparkplug, it needs more horsepower, and a corner outfielder with no power isn't going to cut it.

by DanUpBaby on Jul 2, 2007 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions

I know

it's sample size, but to say Crawford has more power and stolen bases is inaccurate. This is Victorino's first full season and he's leading Crawford in homers and stolen bases. They're even in OBP and only .017 different in avg. I'm not saying Victorino is better than crawford, but you can't say his play is not similar to Crawford.

Maybe you just haven't been paying attention to the season the guy is having, but he has been huge for the Phils. We're not going to get Crawford for Reyes, or I'd be arguing that. But as terms as the combination of speed and power goes, Victorino is a pretty good option.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jul 2, 2007 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions

I've been paying attention to his season

and he's been a little above average at best, despite having a ridiculously good year with the stolen base.

Using home runs as a measure of power, in this case, is pretty disingenuous; Crawford has eight triples, and more doubles as well. Victorino has 700 at-bats, as a 25/26-year old, in which he has barely been able to slug .400 in a hitter's park. He stole all of four bases in 415 at-bats last year.

Even a team as screwed up as the Cardinals shouldn't be clamoring for a guy like Victorino. He's cheap, but he's got no upside, and he's hardly even adequate unless you think stealing 24 bases in 26 attempts is a new talent level.

by DanUpBaby on Jul 2, 2007 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions

a little above average at best?

Crawford is obviously better, and that's how you're missing my point. I'm not saying he IS Carl Crawford, but that he is a very similar player. I'm going to go back to the first statement you made that Victorino is a 4th outfielder who we have plenty of. I'm sorry, but besides Duncan, no one in our outfield compares to this guy right now.

What's your equation for "no upside"? The guy is 26, and is having a career year in his first year as a starter. Hell, you're not even giving the guy a shot before he can take one.

25/27 steals actually is very impressive in this short amount of time. Especially when considering Crawford is 20/26 and he's one of the best in the game.

We don't have to be clamoring for a guy like Victorino, but if there is interest to trade him, then we should definitely listen. I never said we should give Reyes to them straight up for Victorino, but I am saying that you're significantly underrating Victorino as a player.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jul 3, 2007 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions

it's really his second full year

he played in 153 games last year and had 415 at bats. That's pretty full. He also put up a .757 OPS (3.8 warp) last year, which was almost identical to JEnc (.760, 3.3 warp) and right in line with his .748 OPS (3.2 warp projected) this year. The stolen bases are nice, and I'd love to see a guy in the lineup who can run, but he's not going to be THE guy who makes the difference.

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jul 3, 2007 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions

I hope this isn't a

career year for him. A 95 OPS+ from a corner outfielder is terrible. Even with the steals, he's got a .261 EqA.

If that were to happen then I'd buy a conversion van as long as Dan grabs the ski masks.

by plh903 on Jul 3, 2007 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions

It's official....

just heard on KFNS Reyes back to Memphis. I'm speechless, really.

by jillsinmo on Jul 2, 2007 5:13 PM EDT reply actions

Good

It makes sense to me -- the rest of the starters are outperforming him. It's that simple.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jul 2, 2007 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Victorino would be a nice player...

to put around a core of thumpers like we had in '04. He's a 270/340/410 guy with good speed and great defense... Fine, but the team should spend its chips on finding middle of the order sluggers to replace Edmonds and Rolen.

by guayzimi on Jul 2, 2007 5:15 PM EDT reply actions

Oh no!

They're sending down a guy who is 0-10 w/ a era+ of 65 and a k/bb ratio that's less than 2-1! What are they thinking!?!

Boooo-urns.

by Alxfritz on Jul 2, 2007 5:20 PM EDT reply actions

i agree

during reyes' starts we bitch at reyes for sucking. and all the other times we bitch at ladunc for effin him up. its obviouly just not working so people should stop bitching.

by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 2, 2007 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Your right........

but this one hurts. I saw him on the news. He looked and sounded shell-shocked. They finally killed him. We will never see him in a Cardinal uniform again.

by jillsinmo on Jul 3, 2007 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Relax, Jill

He may be back in Sept... If there's an injury or a blow up, he will be back before then. And he will be back next year.

The guy has A LOT in his game to work out. Should they let him do it at the MLB level instead of AAA? Maybe... But he'd probably end up around 2-20 with an era around 7.

Reyes, through this season, has been the worst pitcher in the national league. I know he has talent and a ton of potential; he also has been the worst pitcher in the national league!

Boooo-urns.

by Alxfritz on Jul 3, 2007 4:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Could this be why Reyes was sent down?

"I usually don't look at how I do things," Reyes said. "With what's going on, I'm going to have to start paying attention a little more to what I'm doing, what's working for me. I think if I can take that with me up here that will work. Just being aggressive."

40 minor league starts and it took him until NOW to figure out he has to look at 'what works for him'?

Maybe that came out wrong but he sounds like he apparently now 'gets' what LaRussa/Duncan have been saying to him.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 1:30 AM EDT reply actions

I dunno Hardcore

I think you could read that "what working for me" as completely the opposite. In that throwing shitloads of two-seamers ever time there's a runner on isn't really working for him. He needs to be aggressive. Blah blah.

I don't even care anymore actually, just saying that you could read that either way. Just more ambiguous bullshit.

by plh903 on Jul 3, 2007 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions

You are looking at the second part

where the more interesting statement isn't about looking at what works for him but rather "I usually don't look at how I do things,"

Either he mispoke or he's been clueless to the idea that it takes more than raw talent to be a MLB pitcher.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2007 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions

Well, he seemed like a babbling idiot on

TV--and they have been sending love-me-love-me-not messages to him all week in the press. Maybe he was stunned because he finally pitched a game where he got numerous ground ball outs, avoided the big inning, had a nice, low, pitch count, and I'm sorry, but Wright's homerun was on a good low pitch that most hitters would NOT have homered on-I guess you could argue on the grounds that a good pitch never gets hit,,,,,but he probably saw that as the turning point in the right direction. Bye-bye. I'm not surprised he'd make no sense. Except that he's a USC alum, and they kind of learn how to handle the press out there....

by jillsinmo on Jul 3, 2007 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions