Pujols irked about getting left on All-Star bench by La Russa
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-all-stars-pujolsupset&prov=ap&type=lgns
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- Albert Pujols was angry about being left on the All-Star bench and the St. Louis slugger took aim at the National League manager -- who just happened to be Tony La Russa of his own Cardinals.
"It's the All-Star game. He can do what he wants," Pujols said Tuesday night. "He does whatever he wants. If I wasn't expecting to play, I wouldn't have come up here."
Pujols, the NL MVP in 2005 and key to the Cardinals' win in the World Series last year, said La Russa didn't talk to him the entire game.
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Just what we need...
by SHUCardinal on
Jul 11, 2007 2:41 AM EDT
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i'm warning everyone on this thread
just because somebody disagrees with you, you do not have the right to call them names or ascribe illegitimate motives.
review the community guidelines if you need a refresher.
by lboros on
Jul 11, 2007 12:07 PM EDT
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He has a right to be upset
You know, I get that this was an exhibition, and that it doesn't matter to us anyway because we aren't gonna sniff the postseason, but damn...This was a real punch in the stomach to baseball fans in general, even more so to Cardinal fans, and most of all, Tony's best player. F him. This was the last straw for me. This is a perfect microcosm if not for his career, then definitely for his run lately as a Cardinal. What an arrogant, know-it-all, petty, pompous prick. Time to go.
by farley503 on
Jul 11, 2007 6:31 AM EDT
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Oh my, tell us what you really think........
by jillsinmo on
Jul 11, 2007 7:17 AM EDT
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Disappointing
It just sure seemed disrespectful to Albert, and to STL fans. I'm not sure what to make of it. Many of TLR's moves have been head scratchers over the years but they have definitely been wearing thin. I guess I hope it lights a fire under Big Al for the second half. But part of me says "But then they'll hail TLR as a genius.."
by paCardsFan on
Jul 11, 2007 8:11 AM EDT
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Disrespectful...
Not to disrespect Rowand who is having a fine season, but he isn't half the hitter that Pujols is. The NL deserved to have Pujols at the plate in that situation!! The odds of going to extra innings at that point are next to nothing.
I too have never been so pissed about something that means so little. To add to it TLR makes Pujols sound like an idiot, basically saying he doesn't understand something so obvious.
by cardzfanbub on
Jul 11, 2007 8:56 AM EDT
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dumb dumb dumb
We all know that Albert is a bit arrogant. That's fine - if we had his talents, we'd be arrogant too. But to really snub one of the top 5 hitters in the all-star game (maybe the best)when the guy is from your own team - that's too much. Jeez, have some love for your own.
And take Dunc with you. He's not a genius, he's a pitching coach.
by bukowski on
Jul 11, 2007 8:23 AM EDT
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Classic TLR
He makes his mind up about something, however odd, and he could care less what anyone thinks.......which is fine until his stubbornness seems to become more important than the decision itself. Yes, you manage the game objectively.....but the leader always takes care of his hometown man. Tony, now you have to live with Albert and the fans........all because you were "right". Inexcusable.
by Hinkster on
Jul 11, 2007 8:47 AM EDT
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add me to the list ..
by jjray on
Jul 11, 2007 8:56 AM EDT
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You wonder why there's no joy
Guess not.
We already know that Rolen doesn't like Tony. You have to wonder whether Edmonds does after being put on the DL without consultation.
Tony's burning his bridges. Wonder why?
by Titus Pullo on
Jul 11, 2007 9:17 AM EDT
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I concur
by BigdJC on
Jul 11, 2007 9:19 AM EDT
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Disagree with almost everyone here.
avg hr rbi obp slg
Rowand .310 11 43 .385 .478
Pujols .310 16 52 .411 .516
Rowand's line isn't much different than Pujols' this year when you consider that a base hit wins it and reaching base ties it. Pujols doesn't give the NL a better chance of winning but increases the NL's chance of a tie by 2.6%.
If the game does go to the 10th, that mean Pujols would need to be played out of position in left. (I assume Sorinao would move to center.) Also the next time the pitcher's spot comes around, the NL would be left without a pinch hitter.
Lastly as I said before the 2007 Pujols hasn't been the same as the 2001-2006 Pujols. Look at his line with RISP and 2 out; compare it to Rowand's:
avg obp slg
Rowand .395 .500 .605
Pujols .313 .593 .563
Again to use an analogy pinch hitting Pujols for Rowand is the statistical equivilent of pinch hitting So Taguchi for Aaron Miles. It gets us little if anything but we'd pay for it defensively.
avg hr rbi obp slg
Miles .290 0 14 .328 .332
Taguchi .293 2 15 .348 .377
by Zubin on
Jul 11, 2007 9:24 AM EDT
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Missing the forest for the trees
While your statistical argument is accurate, TLR doesn't have to live with 07 WS homefield advantage or Aaron Rowand........he does have to live with Albert and the Stl fans.....I guess being true to his "genius" was more important than simple loyalty and common sense
by Hinkster on
Jul 11, 2007 9:31 AM EDT
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Loyalty?
by Zubin on
Jul 11, 2007 11:08 AM EDT
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Zubin
by the red baron on
Jul 11, 2007 11:15 AM EDT
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No
Your usual sound logic is too good for you to take this position.......though I love it when you play the contrarian role.
No one is suggesting that TLR ditch the odds in favor of a homey but if it's even close, go with your guy and by all means.......keep your stud happy.
by Hinkster on
Jul 11, 2007 1:15 PM EDT
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Wrong
by farley503 on
Jul 11, 2007 9:43 AM EDT
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Especially since Posada went out and told KRod
by Hardcore Legend on
Jul 11, 2007 9:50 AM EDT
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Um no
by Zubin on
Jul 11, 2007 11:10 AM EDT
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Nope, you're still wrong
Finally, this is the All-Star game. Why not give your guy a chance to be the hero on one of the biggest stages in baseball? Rowand had already played and batted. It wasn't like he was denying Rowand (or even Hudson for that matter) a chance to participate. He was denying Pujols that chance on the slim possibility that the game would end up tied. Additionally, can you even remotely make the case that Pujols is the best UTILITY player on the roster? If you're saving a critical player that can hit and play multiple positions, then why the hell is Freddy Sanchez not that guy? Indefensible.
by farley503 on
Jul 11, 2007 11:23 AM EDT
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Check your math and logic please
I don't know what is "twisted" about my defense of TLR's decission. Nor do I see how my defense is at "all costs."
I agree that Sanchez would have been the better player to leave as the last "utility man" but thats not what I am presenting here. Regardless someone almost always has to be the last man on the bench. Last night it happened to be our guy, Pujols. I hardly see that as something to gripe about.
by Zubin on
Jul 11, 2007 11:06 PM EDT
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lame
I honestly think that this was not a baseball move, it was a vanity move, to give someone other than his own man a shot at the glory. It could have been anybody else on the bench. It could have been Don Zimmer on the bench. La Russa was not going for the win, he was going for a "feel-good moment" for somebody else's player.
by taiko on
Jul 11, 2007 10:41 AM EDT
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Lame?
As for vanity. It would have been a vanity move to give his own man a nonsensical atbat. This certainly was not a vanity move.
by Zubin on
Jul 11, 2007 11:15 AM EDT
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Have you looked at their numbers...
Pujols is clearly better.
by guayzimi on
Jul 11, 2007 11:19 AM EDT
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Yes, I have
by Zubin on
Jul 11, 2007 1:05 PM EDT
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Your argument is lame.
by taiko on
Jul 11, 2007 11:29 AM EDT
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Lame
by Zubin on
Jul 11, 2007 11:10 PM EDT
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Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics
If it's more valid to look at 2007 stats instead of career stats, why not look at even more recent numbers.
Here's Rowand and Pujols' Monthly splits:
Pujols
June .326 .458 .620 1.078
July .345 .429 .345 .774
Rowand
June .297 .388 .446 .834
July .263 .286 .421 .707
While Pujols had a lousy April, Roward started off hot. But he has since cooled down, while Pujols has returned to his regular greatness.
So let's forget career numbers, but let's also forget April numbers. If you want to know who was the clearly better option to bat with two outs and the bases loaded on July 10, 2007, it's Pujols, not Rowand--and the comparison's not even close.
by Titus Pullo on
Jul 12, 2007 9:33 AM EDT
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Well that is the best baseball arguement
by Zubin on
Jul 12, 2007 9:36 PM EDT
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We want Pujols!
As someone else stated, when K-Rod can't even throw a strike, Albert would be soo much more intimidating than Rowand. So what if we walks, games at least tied.
Ozzie, Rolen, Albert... the list is getting bigger. Once again, I say out with Tony!
by warpig2003 on
Jul 11, 2007 9:59 AM EDT
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And don't forget
by jillsinmo on
Jul 11, 2007 10:06 AM EDT
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Sorry....
Throwing the manager who guided us to the first World Series in 20 plus years and I think Zubin says the third best period of baseball because he didn't play his player in the All-Star game is a joke and totally completely nearsighted.
Anybody stop to think that maybe, just maybe Tony thought that Albert could use the rest? Hell, Tony knows we ain't making the playoffs so why squander our resources on helping another team make it. Rowand, as stated above, is equal to our better that Albert this year, so the tie goes to the guy NOT on our team.
by Brock20 on
Jul 11, 2007 10:20 AM EDT
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Agree and Disagree
I always appreciate Zubin viewpoint and this is not worth throwing TLR under the bus......but...having led teams with a superstar in the middle, one question is never far from my mind, "Is my main man happy?"
As for Ozzie, I always sided with TLR and after watching Ozzie hour long documentary, still am. But I can sure understand how those two were the perfect storm
by Hinkster on
Jul 11, 2007 10:34 AM EDT
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Agree with you on Ozzie
When you throw in the fact that nearly any hit in that situation is going to win the game, the defense argument is not really a big part of the equation, to my way of thinking. Add in the possible ramifications of a feud between the face of the franchise and the manager, and you have a truly unfathomable thought process.
No one is calling for LaRussa's head because he didn't give an at bat to Pujols in an exhibition game. Tony's arrogance, his stubborness, and his willingness to burn his bridges with the players that he needs to perform is why there are calls for him to leave town.
We all appreciate the championship from last year, we really do. But to continue throwing it out there to explain away bad decisions, inexplicable behavior, and an inability to accept any possible way of doing things other than what the manager has predetermined is correct, is absolutely asinine.
Forgive me for saying so, but your comment is the one that seems nearsighted to me.
by the red baron on
Jul 11, 2007 10:45 AM EDT
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stats and situations aside,
Tony can't get along with his players anymore. It doesn't matter how good a manager he's been in the past, or that we won the WS last year. He's not an effective leader any more. Tony's done.
by hit and run on
Jul 11, 2007 10:41 AM EDT
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Siding with TLR.....sorta
Think about this. We won the WS last year w/o home field advantage. Losing the ASG and WS home field isn't an end all to the season. Risking to further injur or cause injury to Pujols would be for the Cardinals. In my opinion, and I sure hope I'm right, TLR was simply doing what he has always done and that is protecting his guys at all costs. And it sure looks like the cost could be pretty high for this one.
What I don't understand, and where I can't forgive TLR is his post game quotes. That is what has me pretty irked at this point. I can get over Pujols not playing and getting some extra rest, but what in the world is TLR thinking with those quotes!!?? I just can't understand why he'd take that stance instead of just taking a minute to truely explain himself and his reasoning.
But I guess that's TLR. He's a genius, we aren't and he doesn't need to explain himself....oof.
by TheFranchise9 on
Jul 11, 2007 10:33 AM EDT
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I thought...
by joeyart on
Jul 11, 2007 10:37 AM EDT
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I can justify...
by cardzfanbub on
Jul 11, 2007 10:46 AM EDT
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That was my thinking too
by ArkansasTravs on
Jul 11, 2007 11:44 AM EDT
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I'm hoping
Of course, with the reports of dissent and apathy on this team, I'm not sure that will be the response. It'll likely be more along the lines of grouchiness and silent treatments as Pujols finishes the year with 22 home runs. Lots of bat-slamming during walks and staring at fly balls to the warning track. Fun fun.
by effin fisk on
Jul 11, 2007 10:45 AM EDT
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I hate the All-Star Game
OR
LaRussa should have walked over to his buddy Leyland with the umps and said this, "Look, I will be crucified in STL (which is going nuts this morning, by the way) if I do not bat Albert here. While he may hit a home run to win it for us, he has been playing like Mark Grace lately and spraying singles all over the place. Therefore, why don't we just agree that if he hits a single and ties it up and we go to extra innings let's be able to use players again that have already been taken out."
If Selig can just declare a tie a few years ago, why couldn't this have been done?
by pitchout487 on
Jul 11, 2007 10:55 AM EDT
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Simple solution
A base hit scores 2 or atleast should try to.
by Hardcore Legend on
Jul 11, 2007 11:05 AM EDT
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makes sense
but TLR is supposedly a smart guy......why put yourself in that situation? get Albert some ABs early in the game and keep him happy......why choose HIM to be your "save a guy for the end" role?.......and what was all that cutesy talk with FOX about Albert can play anywhere so maybe we'll play him at short or second...just talk, but still......Tony, its simple...take care of your stud!
by Hinkster on
Jul 11, 2007 11:12 AM EDT
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Shit
by stltrav09 on
Jul 11, 2007 11:14 AM EDT
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I can't decide what's wierder...
Aaron Rowand plays in a little league park and can't manage to touch Pujols' numbers at his best when Albert is at his worst. Rowand's lifetime OPS+ is 103, and this year it's 124. Pujols OPS+ for '07 is 146, and he has the 4th highest career slugging percentage IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME...
by guayzimi on
Jul 11, 2007 11:18 AM EDT
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I think someone...
Zubin, admit that you are really Skip Bayless and end this charade.
by farley503 on
Jul 11, 2007 11:25 AM EDT
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farley that'll be enough
and that goes for everybody else on this thread. this organization has far bigger worries than whether albert gets an at-bat in a meaningles game.
by lboros on
Jul 11, 2007 12:04 PM EDT
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Name-calling
Passion and civility are not mutually exclusive, however.
by blove121 on
Jul 11, 2007 2:52 PM EDT
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The way TLR handled this is the issue...
But he obviously did not. Then in postgame comments he throws Albert under the bus with his "this is America" comment.
I think this is the last straw and the momentum against TLR, from the players, is advancing at an ever rapid pace.
TLR has lost this team's respect and I cannot imagine anyone running through a wall for him.
As one friend told me this morning, TLR needs to take a hike and spend time with his older children whom he hasn't spoken to in decades.
by Ignatius J Reilly on
Jul 11, 2007 11:30 AM EDT
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Be careful here...
by jillsinmo on
Jul 11, 2007 11:41 AM EDT
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ummm . . . . no
ignatuis is entitled to express his opinion about tlr's personal life, if he wants to. it was written about in sports illustrated; no reason we can't talk about it here.
but whatever we talk about, people gotta stick to the community guidelines
by lboros on
Jul 11, 2007 1:24 PM EDT
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my bad......
by jillsinmo on
Jul 11, 2007 3:16 PM EDT
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I appreciate Zubin's effort...
My only other thought here is that perhaps LaRussa feared getting blasted for favoring his own guy at a key moment if Pujols doesn't come through. But so what? Pujols isn't some one-year-wonder scrub who lucked onto the All-Star team, he's one of the two or three greatest players (and greatest clutch players) in the game today. No one would've faulted LaRussa for homerism if he sends Albert up there in that spot.
by DCRedbird on
Jul 11, 2007 11:40 AM EDT
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thank the baseball gods
This is much to do about nothing. Pujols is a man he will get over it.
by nybirdfan on
Jul 11, 2007 11:49 AM EDT
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no offense to anyone
by erik on
Jul 11, 2007 11:51 AM EDT
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It was just
by cardsrul on
Jul 11, 2007 12:41 PM EDT
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he probably needed the rest from the
by kyle man on
Jul 11, 2007 1:48 PM EDT
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i kept waiting......
by PujolsFan4Life5 on
Jul 11, 2007 2:07 PM EDT
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Will Leitch over at Deadspin
"Yes, Tony, we understand, the game could have gone into extra innings, and it's possible the National League would have run out of players. But Christ, man, you've got Albert Pujols with the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth of a one run game! What do you want, anyway?"
Check it out...funny stuff.
http://deadspin.com/sports/all-star-game/in-case-you-forgot-who-was-managing-the-nl--277129.php
by stash3630 on
Jul 11, 2007 2:28 PM EDT
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More humor...
look at the third picture in the far right hand column.
by TheFranchise9 on
Jul 11, 2007 2:40 PM EDT
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my fave line
'TLR is so busy thinking about how he's thinking 3 steps ahead that he walks right into a pole'
pretty well nailed it.
by TheFranchise9 on
Jul 11, 2007 2:56 PM EDT
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Will hit it on the head...
Hummel's got an interesting take on the ethics of all-star substitutions, but Rowand already had an at-bat and he should know that Pujols has rights on critical situations just from what he's done over the past six years.
by guayzimi on
Jul 11, 2007 3:08 PM EDT
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Sorry Tony, can't support this one.
by Yadier on
Jul 11, 2007 2:28 PM EDT
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Think of the fans and the game of baseball...
I'd want to see Albert up - create some drama, make it exciting. Nothing against Rowand, but to the average joe - Albert is more exciting than he is.
by bukowski on
Jul 11, 2007 3:17 PM EDT
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Zubin
June 2007
Pujols 326/458/620
Rowand 297/388/446
July 2007
Pujols 345/429/345
Rowand 263/288/421
Pujols year is badly tainted by an abysmal April. Since he has been his usual self (although he hasn't homered in nearly a month). Rowand got off to a hot start, but has cooled significantly. The important numbers here are average (likelihood of driving in multiple runs with a base hit) and OBP (likelihood of driving in one run by reaching). It's not even close!!!
Shall we look at career numbers, or would you prefer to base your opinion on April 2007?
Whilst we look at this, let's not forget that Rollins, Utley, Burrell, Victorino, and Howard are in that lineup with Rowand daily...all of whom are better right now than anyone not named Pujols or maybe Duncan in the Cards starting 8.
by cardzfanbub on
Jul 11, 2007 3:52 PM EDT
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So, where was Albert anyway?
Is La Russa taking the fall in the media for his star player's decision to skip out early? Or was he taking hacks behind the scenes?
by taiko on
Jul 11, 2007 5:36 PM EDT
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as much as its being attacked
i see both sides of the argument. yes pujols is the best hitter in the game and probaly should have gotten a chance to bat with the bases loaded. a hit wins it and if you don't get a hit the games going to be over (pujols doesn't walk).
on the other side, albert simply hasn't been albert this year. he hits with 2 outs and RISP are on the decline this year and he just hasn't been as godly. aaron rowand on the other hand is having a break out year and is hitting as decent as many of the stars (including pujols).
aaron rowand last night had about as much of a chance to get a hit as albert pujols did, espcially after TLR said he wasn't going to play.
edge: zubin and aaron rowand even though you know i would have loved to see pujols.
by stlcardinalsfang on
Jul 12, 2007 12:20 AM EDT
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read cardzfanbub's (awesome name) post above
The one split that TLR MIGHT have been looking at is Rowand's "close and late" (scroll down to "clutch stats"). If he pointed at that stat, I wouldn't argue with him. I wouldn't completely agree, but it would be at least somewhat convincing.
by SleepyCA on
Jul 12, 2007 2:50 AM EDT
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