Pujols irked about getting left on All-Star bench by La Russa

Just what we need...

Another star mad at La Russa about playing time. Maybe Albert will do his best Rolen - World Series impersonation and get hot to spite La Russa. At least I hope so.

Let's Go Yadi

by SHUCardinal on Jul 11, 2007 2:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i'm warning everyone on this thread

the tone is taking an unnecessarily personal turn. if you disagree with somebody's opinion, reason with them --- don't let anger get the best of you.

just because somebody disagrees with you, you do not have the right to call them names or ascribe illegitimate motives.

review the community guidelines if you need a refresher.

by lboros on Jul 11, 2007 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tony's "excuse" is flimsy at best. Bases loaded, two outs, down by a run, by far the two most likely possible outcomes in that situation are an out or a game winning hit. Either way, what better way to finish the All-Star game than by having Pujols up with the game on the line. K-Rod was so jittery that he could barely get the ball over the plate. Think he was intimidated by Aaron Rowand?

You know, I get that this was an exhibition, and that it doesn't matter to us anyway because we aren't gonna sniff the postseason, but damn...This was a real punch in the stomach to baseball fans in general, even more so to Cardinal fans, and most of all, Tony's best player. F him. This was the last straw for me. This is a perfect microcosm if not for his career, then definitely for his run lately as a Cardinal. What an arrogant, know-it-all, petty, pompous prick. Time to go.

by farley503 on Jul 11, 2007 6:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh my, tell us what you really think........

but there was no reason to NOT get Pujols into the game.....and the personal and professional arrogance of LaRussa is starting to look like it's part of the reason for the lackluster play of this team. It would be nice to look into the dugout and see someone, anyone smile once in awhile.

by jillsinmo on Jul 11, 2007 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Disappointing

I kept waiting... and waiting. Can't remember the last time I was that angry about something as insignificant as the All-Star Game.

It just sure seemed disrespectful to Albert, and to STL fans. I'm not sure what to make of it. Many of TLR's moves have been head scratchers over the years but they have definitely been wearing thin. I guess I hope it lights a fire under Big Al for the second half. But part of me says "But then they'll hail TLR as a genius.."

by paCardsFan on Jul 11, 2007 8:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Disrespectful...

not only to Pujols and STL fans, but to the entire NL and its fans!!!

Not to disrespect Rowand who is having a fine season, but he isn't half the hitter that Pujols is. The NL deserved to have Pujols at the plate in that situation!! The odds of going to extra innings at that point are next to nothing.

I too have never been so pissed about something that means so little. To add to it TLR makes Pujols sound like an idiot, basically saying he doesn't understand something so obvious.

by cardzfanbub on Jul 11, 2007 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

dumb dumb dumb

Enough of this horseshit about how smart he is. Don't care. Let's get some fire in there - someone who want his pitchers to throw high and inside, someone who gets his players motivated - someone who can get them to smile.

We all know that Albert is a bit arrogant. That's fine - if we had his talents, we'd be arrogant too. But to really snub one of the top 5 hitters in the all-star game (maybe the best)when the guy is from your own team - that's too much. Jeez, have some love for your own.

And take Dunc with you. He's not a genius, he's a pitching coach.

Good pitching will beat good hitting any time, and vice versa. ~Bob Veale, 1966

by bukowski on Jul 11, 2007 8:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Classic TLR

He makes his mind up about something, however odd, and he could care less what anyone thinks.......which is fine until his stubbornness seems to become more important than the decision itself. Yes, you manage the game objectively.....but the leader always takes care of his hometown man. Tony, now you have to live with Albert and the fans........all because you were "right". Inexcusable.

by Hinkster on Jul 11, 2007 8:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

add me to the list ..

of those who say this is a microcosm of the stubbornness and all that is wrong with LaGenius. Inexcusable, indefensible. He stabbed Albert, the shoulders upon which the LaRussa legacy in STL have been build, in the back and Albert is not the sort of man who forgets. LaRussa should be done in STL.

by jjray on Jul 11, 2007 8:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You wonder why there's no joy

in the clubhouse. You'd think Tony might put Pujols in just to please the home town fans and placate his most important player.

Guess not.

We already know that Rolen doesn't like Tony. You have to wonder whether Edmonds does after being put on the DL without consultation.

Tony's burning his bridges. Wonder why?

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Jul 11, 2007 9:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I concur

This was one of the worst managerial performances I have ever seen. Hopefully the organization will side with Pujols on this one. The fans sure are.

by BigdJC on Jul 11, 2007 9:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Disagree with almost everyone here.

Tony's decission was perfectly defensible based on 2007 stats. While everybody recognizes Pujols is a better hitter over his career, this year Pujols hasn't been himself while Rowand is having a career/ breakout year. Look at their lines:



         avg  hr  rbi  obp   slg

Rowand  .310  11  43  .385  .478

Pujols  .310  16  52  .411  .516

Rowand's line isn't much different than Pujols' this year when you consider that a base hit wins it and reaching base ties it. Pujols doesn't give the NL a better chance of winning but increases the NL's chance of a tie by 2.6%.

If the game does go to the 10th, that mean Pujols would need to be played out of position in left. (I assume Sorinao would move to center.) Also the next time the pitcher's spot comes around, the NL would be left without a pinch hitter.

Lastly as I said before the 2007 Pujols hasn't been the same as the 2001-2006 Pujols. Look at his line with RISP and 2 out; compare it to Rowand's:
avg obp slg Rowand .395 .500 .605 Pujols .313 .593 .563

Again to use an analogy pinch hitting Pujols for Rowand is the statistical equivilent of pinch hitting So Taguchi for Aaron Miles. It gets us little if anything but we'd pay for it defensively.
avg hr rbi obp slg Miles .290 0 14 .328 .332 Taguchi .293 2 15 .348 .377

The St Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champs!

by Zubin on Jul 11, 2007 9:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Missing the forest for the trees

While your statistical argument is accurate, TLR doesn't have to live with 07 WS homefield advantage or Aaron Rowand........he does have to live with Albert and the Stl fans.....I guess being true to his "genius" was more important than simple loyalty and common sense

by Hinkster on Jul 11, 2007 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Loyalty?

So your arguement is Tony should not do what is statistically correct or correct for the NL, but do something for Albert and St Luois. I am sorry but this to me is a very weak arguement. Loyalty like that sucks. It the same reason why we get incompetant bosses and appointed oficials. It shouldn't be how baseball decissions are made.

The St Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champs!

by Zubin on Jul 11, 2007 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zubin

the argument, to me, isn't so much about loyalty as it is the quality of the respective players. You can throw out first half statistics all you like, but Aaron Rowand and Albert are not even close to being equivalent hitters. Give me the guy that's done it for six years, you can have the guy who has done as well as he has for three months.

I don't need no instructions to know how to rock.

by the red baron on Jul 11, 2007 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

Your usual sound logic is too good for you to take this position.......though I love it when you play the contrarian role.

No one is suggesting that TLR ditch the odds in favor of a homey but if it's even close, go with your guy and by all means.......keep your stud happy.

by Hinkster on Jul 11, 2007 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong

That MIGHT be true if the circumstances were different, say down 5-4 with no one on base and a greater chance of the inning ending in a tie. However, with the bases loaded and down by one run, the vast majority of at bats in that situation are going to result in the game ending, either with an out or with a multi-RBI hit.

by farley503 on Jul 11, 2007 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Especially since Posada went out and told KRod

"Throw fastballs".

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 11, 2007 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um no

The NL was down by a run. A single most likely wins it; reaching base ties it.

The St Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champs!

by Zubin on Jul 11, 2007 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope, you're still wrong

Yes...A single most likely wins it. Or a double. Or a triple (big right center). Or a home run. If he walks, then at least the game is tied and you have a chance to win. In your twisted attempt to defend LaRussa at all costs, you have taken the least likely scenario and focused on it as a justification for failing to use the best player in the most critical situation.

Finally, this is the All-Star game. Why not give your guy a chance to be the hero on one of the biggest stages in baseball? Rowand had already played and batted. It wasn't like he was denying Rowand (or even Hudson for that matter) a chance to participate. He was denying Pujols that chance on the slim possibility that the game would end up tied. Additionally, can you even remotely make the case that Pujols is the best UTILITY player on the roster? If you're saving a critical player that can hit and play multiple positions, then why the hell is Freddy Sanchez not that guy? Indefensible.

by farley503 on Jul 11, 2007 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Check your math and logic please

Rowand's chances of a single, double or homerun is 31% based on batting average. Pujol's is the same. Pujols has a 2.6% edge in obp/ tying the game.

I don't know what is "twisted" about my defense of TLR's decission. Nor do I see how my defense is at "all costs."

I agree that Sanchez would have been the better player to leave as the last "utility man" but thats not what I am presenting here. Regardless someone almost always has to be the last man on the bench. Last night it happened to be our guy, Pujols. I hardly see that as something to gripe about.

The St Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champs!

by Zubin on Jul 11, 2007 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lame

The argument you posit just shows that Pujols at his career worst is still better than Aaron Rowand at his career best. Add to the fact that you are basing your argument on a couple months' performance. That, and given Pujols' postseason experience and game-winning experience, leaves us with only one logical answer to "Who do you want up with the game on the line?"

I honestly think that this was not a baseball move, it was a vanity move, to give someone other than his own man a shot at the glory. It could have been anybody else on the bench. It could have been Don Zimmer on the bench. La Russa was not going for the win, he was going for a "feel-good moment" for somebody else's player.

by taiko on Jul 11, 2007 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lame?

Insults or personnal attacks aside, what do you think is more relevant, a players performance over the past 3-4 months or a player's performance a year or two ago? Rowand has been very good with the game on line this year as I have already demonstrated.

As for vanity. It would have been a vanity move to give his own man a nonsensical atbat. This certainly was not a vanity move.

The St Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champs!

by Zubin on Jul 11, 2007 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Have you looked at their numbers...

beyond their batting average?

Pujols is clearly better.

Fire LaJocketty, Hire DePodesta!!!

by guayzimi on Jul 11, 2007 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I have

Again see above. My opinion is supported by statistics.

The St Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champs!

by Zubin on Jul 11, 2007 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your argument is lame.

I reserve judgement on you personally, as we have never met. Needless to say, I remain unconvinced by your logic.

by taiko on Jul 11, 2007 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lame

If my arguement is lame, please tell me why.

The St Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champs!

by Zubin on Jul 11, 2007 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics

Zubin,

If it's more valid to look at 2007 stats instead of career stats, why not look at even more recent numbers.

Here's Rowand and Pujols' Monthly splits:

Pujols
June .326 .458 .620 1.078
July .345 .429 .345 .774

Rowand
June .297 .388 .446 .834
July .263 .286 .421 .707

While Pujols had a lousy April, Roward started off hot. But he has since cooled down, while Pujols has returned to his regular greatness.

So let's forget career numbers, but let's also forget April numbers. If you want to know who was the clearly better option to bat with two outs and the bases loaded on July 10, 2007, it's Pujols, not Rowand--and the comparison's not even close.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Jul 12, 2007 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well that is the best baseball arguement

I have read, of course I could point to these statistics as a counterpoint. Honestly tho, I am coming around on this a bit, just because Pujols K-Rod could have been a match up for the ages. Still as a baseball arguement, I am not convinced that PH Pujols in the ninth would have been smart.

The St Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champs!

by Zubin on Jul 12, 2007 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We want Pujols!

I don't know about you guys, but I know the only reason me and my friends watched this game was to see Albert. We sat in bars for hours with our heads glued to the TV to see Albert. We actually got excited when bases were loaded because we thought we'd see Albert. But nope.

As someone else stated, when K-Rod can't even throw a strike, Albert would be soo much more intimidating than Rowand. So what if we walks, games at least tied.

Ozzie, Rolen, Albert... the list is getting bigger. Once again, I say out with Tony!

Give Jose a chance!

by warpig2003 on Jul 11, 2007 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And don't forget

Edmonds and Reyes........

by jillsinmo on Jul 11, 2007 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and J-Rod

by jillsinmo on Jul 11, 2007 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry....

Ozzie's problem is himself. Again, if you look back at that season, Clayton was the future and Ozzie expected to play everyday even though he was a liablity.

Throwing the manager who guided us to the first World Series in 20 plus years and I think Zubin says the third best period of baseball because he didn't play his player in the All-Star game is a joke and totally completely nearsighted.

Anybody stop to think that maybe, just maybe Tony thought that Albert could use the rest? Hell, Tony knows we ain't making the playoffs so why squander our resources on helping another team make it. Rowand, as stated above, is equal to our better that Albert this year, so the tie goes to the guy NOT on our team.

by Brock20 on Jul 11, 2007 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree and Disagree

I always appreciate Zubin viewpoint and this is not worth throwing TLR under the bus......but...having led teams with a superstar in the middle, one question is never far from my mind, "Is my main man happy?"

As for Ozzie, I always sided with TLR and after watching Ozzie hour long documentary, still am. But I can sure understand how those two were the perfect storm

by Hinkster on Jul 11, 2007 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with you on Ozzie

but I disagree with the rest of your assessment. You're accusing everyone here of being nearsighted, but do you honestly think that any manager, or pitcher, in the game of baseball, would rather pitch to Albert Pujols than Aaron Rowand? Albert is one of the greatest hitters of his, or any other, generation. Aaron Rowand is a very nice defensive center fielder who's having a big year, (for him) with the bat. If you go through their respective careers, you could find periods of time when Curt Flood hit nearly as well as Ted Williams did at certain points in his career. That does not make them equivalent hitters.

When you throw in the fact that nearly any hit in that situation is going to win the game, the defense argument is not really a big part of the equation, to my way of thinking. Add in the possible ramifications of a feud between the face of the franchise and the manager, and you have a truly unfathomable thought process.

No one is calling for LaRussa's head because he didn't give an at bat to Pujols in an exhibition game. Tony's arrogance, his stubborness, and his willingness to burn his bridges with the players that he needs to perform is why there are calls for him to leave town.

We all appreciate the championship from last year, we really do. But to continue throwing it out there to explain away bad decisions, inexplicable behavior, and an inability to accept any possible way of doing things other than what the manager has predetermined is correct, is absolutely asinine.

Forgive me for saying so, but your comment is the one that seems nearsighted to me.

I don't need no instructions to know how to rock.

by the red baron on Jul 11, 2007 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

stats and situations aside,

what the Cards need most right now is chemistry and fire. Not insults from the manager, not rest, not an all-star game win. Pujols deserved an at-bat, and he doesn't appreciate not getting one. That does not help the Cards.

Tony can't get along with his players anymore. It doesn't matter how good a manager he's been in the past, or that we won the WS last year. He's not an effective leader any more. Tony's done.

by hit and run on Jul 11, 2007 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Siding with TLR.....sorta

This won't make me popular, but I kinda sorta am siding with TLR on this one. As much as I would have loved to see Pujols bat in the ninth - and think he should have - I think TLR was keeping his priorities straight.

Think about this. We won the WS last year w/o home field advantage. Losing the ASG and WS home field isn't an end all to the season. Risking to further injur or cause injury to Pujols would be for the Cardinals. In my opinion, and I sure hope I'm right, TLR was simply doing what he has always done and that is protecting his guys at all costs. And it sure looks like the cost could be pretty high for this one.

What I don't understand, and where I can't forgive TLR is his post game quotes. That is what has me pretty irked at this point. I can get over Pujols not playing and getting some extra rest, but what in the world is TLR thinking with those quotes!!?? I just can't understand why he'd take that stance instead of just taking a minute to truely explain himself and his reasoning.

But I guess that's TLR. He's a genius, we aren't and he doesn't need to explain himself....oof.

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Jul 11, 2007 10:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I thought...

he should've pinch hit for O. Hudson...no disrespect to the O-dog, he's having a great year driving in runs, but....Albert? Yeah...Albert.

by joeyart on Jul 11, 2007 10:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I can justify...

not batting pujols prior to Rowand's at-bat because at those points there's a lot greater likelihood of a tie and extra innings...only one runner in scoring position. Once the bases are juiced Pujols should be hitting, and any justification offered by TLR or anyone else IMHO is nothing more than a lame excuse.

by cardzfanbub on Jul 11, 2007 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That was my thinking too

Yes, there certainly was a greater probability of just tying it up in that situation, but, if that batter doesn't get on, the games over anyway. Hudson did walk, but they aren't going to intentionally walk Albert to load the bases if he had hit there.

by ArkansasTravs on Jul 11, 2007 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm hoping

that this'll piss Pu' off to the point that he spends the next 80 games knocking the crap out of the ball as a big 'screw you' to LaRussa.

Of course, with the reports of dissent and apathy on this team, I'm not sure that will be the response. It'll likely be more along the lines of grouchiness and silent treatments as Pujols finishes the year with 22 home runs. Lots of bat-slamming during walks and staring at fly balls to the warning track. Fun fun.

.500 here we come...

by effin fisk on Jul 11, 2007 10:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I hate the All-Star Game

It is the ALL-STAR game! Of course he should have batted. He is one of the most popular players in the game, and he should have pinch hit for Orlando Hudson not Rowand. Hudson is a 2b and Pujols could have played there if needed.

OR

LaRussa should have walked over to his buddy Leyland with the umps and said this, "Look, I will be crucified in STL (which is going nuts this morning, by the way) if I do not bat Albert here. While he may hit a home run to win it for us, he has been playing like Mark Grace lately and spraying singles all over the place. Therefore, why don't we just agree that if he hits a single and ties it up and we go to extra innings let's be able to use players again that have already been taken out."

If Selig can just declare a tie a few years ago, why couldn't this have been done?

by pitchout487 on Jul 11, 2007 10:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Simple solution

when you make the switch, call time, tell your 3rd base coach "If he puts it in play, send the runner from 2nd.

A base hit scores 2 or atleast should try to.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 11, 2007 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

makes sense

but TLR is supposedly a smart guy......why put yourself in that situation? get Albert some ABs early in the game and keep him happy......why choose HIM to be your "save a guy for the end" role?.......and what was all that cutesy talk with FOX about Albert can play anywhere so maybe we'll play him at short or second...just talk, but still......Tony, its simple...take care of your stud!

by Hinkster on Jul 11, 2007 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shit

and here I was thinking Tony and Albert both agreed he should sit out and rest, happily ever after the end.

by stltrav09 on Jul 11, 2007 11:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I can't decide what's wierder...

LaRussa throwing his own man - the most important player on his own team - under the bus, or avid baseball fans making the argument that Aaron Rowand is as good a hitter as Albert Pujols.

Aaron Rowand plays in a little league park and can't manage to touch Pujols' numbers at his best when Albert is at his worst. Rowand's lifetime OPS+ is 103, and this year it's 124. Pujols OPS+ for '07 is 146, and he has the 4th highest career slugging percentage IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME...

Fire LaJocketty, Hire DePodesta!!!

by guayzimi on Jul 11, 2007 11:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think someone...

Is enjoying a lot of attention by making a ridiculous argument purely for the sake of stirring a pot...of crap.

Zubin, admit that you are really Skip Bayless and end this charade.

by farley503 on Jul 11, 2007 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

farley that'll be enough

attack the opinion, not the poster. keep your emotions in check.

and that goes for everybody else on this thread. this organization has far bigger worries than whether albert gets an at-bat in a meaningles game.

by lboros on Jul 11, 2007 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Name-calling

I agree about the name calling and personal attacks...but emotions are what being a FAN(atic) is all about.

Passion and civility are not mutually exclusive, however.

by blove121 on Jul 11, 2007 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The way TLR handled this is the issue...

...not whether AP batted or not. If TLR wanted to keep AP out, or just let AP play if the game went extra-innings then he should have carefully gone over this with AP before either left for SF.

But he obviously did not. Then in postgame comments he throws Albert under the bus with his "this is America" comment.

I think this is the last straw and the momentum against TLR, from the players, is advancing at an ever rapid pace.

TLR has lost this team's respect and I cannot imagine anyone running through a wall for him.

As one friend told me this morning, TLR needs to take a hike and spend time with his older children whom he hasn't spoken to in decades.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Jul 11, 2007 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Be careful here...

LBoros doesn't think it's proper to get into personal life; just stick to the baseball.

by jillsinmo on Jul 11, 2007 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ummm . . . . no

i didn't say that at all. what i said was that i don't want the members of this community turning differences of opinion into personal attacks on one another. that's childish and stupid, and better suited for a kindergarten playground than a group of adults. that sort of garbage drives intelligent people off the site.

ignatuis is entitled to express his opinion about tlr's personal life, if he wants to. it was written about in sports illustrated; no reason we can't talk about it here.

but whatever we talk about, people gotta stick to the community guidelines

by lboros on Jul 11, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

my bad......

perhaps I should read more carefully.....

by jillsinmo on Jul 11, 2007 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I appreciate Zubin's effort...

... to explain LaRussa's thought process and give some statistical justification for his decision ... but I still can't accept it. You just have to go w/El Hombre there. F-Rod is nervous and desperate to not walk in the tying run; who's going to intimidate him more with his presence in the batter's box -- Aaron Rowand or ALBERT PUJOLS, who is one of the 2 or 3 transcendent hitters of his generation? And from a fan's perspective -- and I'm referring to all baseball fans, not just Cards fans (w/Philly fans possibly excepted) -- it's the All-Star game; wouldn't you rather see one of the sport's truly great stars up there with the game on the line?

My only other thought here is that perhaps LaRussa feared getting blasted for favoring his own guy at a key moment if Pujols doesn't come through. But so what? Pujols isn't some one-year-wonder scrub who lucked onto the All-Star team, he's one of the two or three greatest players (and greatest clutch players) in the game today. No one would've faulted LaRussa for homerism if he sends Albert up there in that spot.

by DCRedbird on Jul 11, 2007 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

thank the baseball gods

Tony didn't use Pujols. Cause we all know he would have struck out.

This is much to do about nothing. Pujols is a man he will get over it.

by nybirdfan on Jul 11, 2007 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

no offense to anyone

but i don't see what the debate is about. i think tlr's stupidity pretty much speaks for itself.

Future Redbirds

by erik on Jul 11, 2007 11:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It was just

the All-Star game; not an LCS or WS game. So Pujols is pissed at LaRussa; big deal. He'll get over it. If he doesn't,then he has bigger problems than a bruised ego.

"It's always about money; anyone who says it's not is lying."- Gene Simmons

by cardsrul on Jul 11, 2007 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

he probably needed the rest from the

home run derby

It's pretty sad that i'm praying for .500 now I know how the cubs usually feel.

by kyle man on Jul 11, 2007 1:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i kept waiting......

i was hoping to see albert get atleast 1 SWING at k-rod. i mean, albert is a lot better than rowand. if he only tied it, ap used to play outfield,so switch him and whoever was playin left around to get him back 2 his old pos. with bases loaded, 2 outs in the 9th,who do u prefer??? Rowand or Pujols?

PUJOLS 4 '08 MVP!

by PujolsFan4Life5 on Jul 11, 2007 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Will Leitch over at Deadspin

has a good take on this.

"Yes, Tony, we understand, the game could have gone into extra innings, and it's possible the National League would have run out of players. But Christ, man, you've got Albert Pujols with the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth of a one run game! What do you want, anyway?"

Check it out...funny stuff.

http://deadspin.com/sports/all-star-game/in-case-you-forgot-who-was-managing-the-nl--277129.php

by stash3630 on Jul 11, 2007 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

More humor...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/index

look at the third picture in the far right hand column.

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Jul 11, 2007 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

my fave line

was the part about...

'TLR is so busy thinking about how he's thinking 3 steps ahead that he walks right into a pole'

pretty well nailed it.

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Jul 11, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Will hit it on the head...

Meanwhile, at the P-D, Hummel has it one way while Goold has it the opposite.

Hummel's got an interesting take on the ethics of all-star substitutions, but Rowand already had an at-bat and he should know that Pujols has rights on critical situations just from what he's done over the past six years.

Fire LaJocketty, Hire DePodesta!!!

by guayzimi on Jul 11, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry Tony, can't support this one.

And I concur, I can't believe I am so pissed about something so insignificant as a game, but there it is. We could of witnessed one of those magic baseball moments to cherish through the ages. We had today's Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Stan The Man poised to take his place..... and.... nothing. So many bad vibes coming out of birdland this year. I really thought this was going to be a giant party of a season. I was thinking stress fre ride to repeat. Just goes to show, you can't predict nothin'. Let's hpe th second half is like last year's first half.

by Yadier on Jul 11, 2007 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Think of the fans and the game of baseball...

Look...if you're a fan of somebody other than the Cardinals or the Phillies, and you're watching an exhibition game - who do you want to see?

I'd want to see Albert up - create some drama, make it exciting. Nothing against Rowand, but to the average joe - Albert is more exciting than he is.

Good pitching will beat good hitting any time, and vice versa. ~Bob Veale, 1966

by bukowski on Jul 11, 2007 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Zubin

Since we're looking at "what have you done for me lately's"...take a look at this:

June 2007
Pujols 326/458/620
Rowand 297/388/446

July 2007
Pujols 345/429/345
Rowand 263/288/421

Pujols year is badly tainted by an abysmal April. Since he has been his usual self (although he hasn't homered in nearly a month). Rowand got off to a hot start, but has cooled significantly. The important numbers here are average (likelihood of driving in multiple runs with a base hit) and OBP (likelihood of driving in one run by reaching). It's not even close!!!

Shall we look at career numbers, or would you prefer to base your opinion on April 2007?

Whilst we look at this, let's not forget that Rollins, Utley, Burrell, Victorino, and Howard are in that lineup with Rowand daily...all of whom are better right now than anyone not named Pujols or maybe Duncan in the Cards starting 8.

by cardzfanbub on Jul 11, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So, where was Albert anyway?

I just rewatched the game on MLB.com, and Albert does not appear on camera after the eighth inning, even as Joe Buck was making several pointed references to Pujols being the only man left on the bench. There were several pans across the dugout during the drama of the ninth, especially after Soriano's home run (when Pujols' services would have been most needed), both of the top step and some of the back bench. No #5. Obviously, not conclusive evidence, but odd considering the circumstances.

Is La Russa taking the fall in the media for his star player's decision to skip out early? Or was he taking hacks behind the scenes?

by taiko on Jul 11, 2007 5:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Clubhouse

Getting stretched out to come into the game at a critical moment, like say, oh I don't know, bottom of the ninth, two outs, bases loaded. :)

Spantalones

by spants on Jul 11, 2007 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

as much as its being attacked

and at the risk of being attacked i make this comment anyway:

i see both sides of the argument. yes pujols is the best hitter in the game and probaly should have gotten a chance to bat with the bases loaded. a hit wins it and if you don't get a hit the games going to be over (pujols doesn't walk).

on the other side, albert simply hasn't been albert this year. he hits with 2 outs and RISP are on the decline this year and he just hasn't been as godly. aaron rowand on the other hand is having a break out year and is hitting as decent as many of the stars (including pujols).

aaron rowand last night had about as much of a chance to get a hit as albert pujols did, espcially after TLR said he wasn't going to play.

edge: zubin and aaron rowand even though you know i would have loved to see pujols.

VEB Fantasy Football League!

by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 12, 2007 12:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

read cardzfanbub's (awesome name) post above

rowand had an awesome, pujols-like month of april (~1.100 OPS). Since then he's fallen off significantly, barely even average for an outfielder. Heck, if this was my choice, i'd have to think hard about picking post-april rowand (.773 OPS) over post-awful-first-week ryan-ludwick (.843 OPS, .779 OPS including the first week) based on watching Rowand flail away two innings earlier. But the choice wasn't Ludwick vs Rowand, it was Pujols vs Rowand, which is a whole different category of head-scratching.

The one split that TLR MIGHT have been looking at is Rowand's "close and late" (scroll down to "clutch stats"). If he pointed at that stat, I wouldn't argue with him. I wouldn't completely agree, but it would be at least somewhat convincing.

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jul 12, 2007 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs