Living good high in the strike zone

by DriverZn on Jun 9, 2007 4:07 PM EDT Comment 12 comments

High stikes may be just the ticked for some pitchers.

A lot of people think you need extreme velocity to get away with high pitches. However, a few years back there was a pitchers that used to just pour a mid to upper 80s fastball into the zone and get hitters to swing and miss or hit routine fly outs.

You will find this pitcher on the all time lowest hits allowed per 9ip list at number 4.

Here are the top 5
#1 Nolan Ryan, 6.555
#2 Sandy Koufax 6.792
#3 Pedro Martinez 6.848
#4 Sid Fernandez 6.851
#5 J.R. Richard

All of the above are extreme strikeout pitchers but only one didn't throw in the mid to high 90s. How is that possible? Fernandez had a very unusual delivery. He hid the ball well and threw after a long stride from a low release point. He almost threw uphill. His ball also had good late movement high in the zone. Hitters were literally swinging though mid 80s fastballs all day long.

The other very unusual thing is how he got people that did get the bat on the ball out. Sid may have the lowest GB/FB ratio ever for a pitcher that logged a substantial number of innings. Lets take 1992 as an example since its closest to the modern live ball era.

~30% of the batter that went to the plate struck out.
~22% hit fly balls
~8% hit popups
~12% hit line drives
~17% hit the ball on the ground.

You might think that would result in giving up a lot of HR but it didn't, just 12 in 214 innings and finished the year with an ERA+ of 134.

The most sure way to get a batter out is with a strikeout. If the batter puts it in play, popouts are the best, followed by fly balls, ground balls, then line drivers as the worst.

For his carer 1866ip the GB/FB rates is around 0.5 to 0.6, I cannot find an exact value. His carer ERA+ was 110.

Who says you cannot live high in the zone?

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Does this have to do with reyes or something?

If so good point, good post

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 9, 2007 9:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There seems to be a belief

That anytime a pitcher throws something up they are going to get killed. I just wanted to make the point that diffrent pitchers can do diffrent things and still get the job done.

Our staff has given the opposition the ability to ignore half the strike zone. They go up their and look for something low to golf.

by DriverZn on Jun 9, 2007 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, I thought you were an anthony reyes supporter

my bad, But yeah i'm one of those guys that believes that, but if you throwing 88-92mph up in the zone your likely to get hammered

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 10, 2007 1:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

all depends

even if you are throwing 90 consistently, if your ball tends to move at all you can still make a living high in the zone.

can anyone look back at last years cards/white sox game and see how often reyes was throwin' high in the zone that game, might help us all get a little perspective on wether or not DD really screwed him up.

by lopey986 on Jun 10, 2007 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Does anyone have a link to a video?

I never got to see that game.

by DriverZn on Jun 10, 2007 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It seems like he was throwing change ups

90% of the time, the only fastball it showed him throw was hit a mile by Thome

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 10, 2007 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to disagree

He threw tons of fastballs that game, consistantly 93+ (the Chicago broadcast's gun was very slow the first few innings). Besides, even accounting for exaggeration, nobody throws close to 50% change-ups, not Jamie Moyer, not Doug Jones, not anybody.

He did feature the changeup quite a bit and threw it for swings-&-misses and called strikes; also quite a few curveballs. This being back when he hadn't been fundamentally altered and lost all feel for his off-speed pitches.

Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.

by Solanus on Jun 11, 2007 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I watced the game too,

on the cardinals top play thing it only showed him throw one fastball

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 12, 2007 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I sure would like to give it a try......

Have the Cardinals been able to sweep anyone this year? Could it be that the other teams can adjust because all of our pitchers throw the same way? Reyes has pitched very well up in the zone, and why they won't let him pitch the way he has his whole CAREER baffles me. Even the way he had been pitching when he was here was better than Wells, Wellemeyer and about the same as Wainwright and Thompson--they never scored any runs for him. He was a 15th round draft pick-he surely didn't get big bonus money because he came out as a senior--they didn't really expect much from him-and he developed nicely through the system, and now they don't know what to do with him, he's not "THEIR" kind of player. His minor league record is really quite good--and if Dave Duncan can't figure out a way to work with him, he's part of the problem, if not the problem. Brad Thompson is the ONLY other pitcher on the roster that came through the system, and he appears to be barely adequate as a 5 starter. We need someone who can keep the hitters honest--by pitching up in the zone. Anthony has been successful pitching that way in the minor leagues--lets give it a go in the majors. I've said it until my head explodes, but management that sees more upside in Wells and Wellemeyer, is a management that can't evaluate talent. I'm just about dying to hear what Anthony has to say about all of this, but he hasn't said a word. Now to answer your question, yes, you can live high in the zone IF you have good movement, and a great change-up. Anthony had that when he first came up, and he seems to have gotten it back in the minors. It costs them nothing but the major league minimum to see if he's got what it takes to be a pithcer at this level, and why they aren't doing that makes me question everything they are supposed to be about-putting their players in the best position to perform. Oh, and can we please have a new manager and pitching coach? Preferably someone who smiles once in awhile.

by jillsinmo on Jun 10, 2007 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

sweeps

they swept the Pirates twice, I believe. (does that even count?)

they need Carpenter and Mulder. that's what they need...

Acquire some runs!

by madding on Jun 11, 2007 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice post...

Good info and research.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 10, 2007 9:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh,

and if you can hit your spot, you can live with a less than fast fastball. Ask Greg Maddux how to do it. Better yet, just watch him. He's been doing it for years. I happen to think he's the best PITCHER out there-he knows what to throw and when to throw it to every batter he faces. Of course, it helps if you have pinpoint control.

by jillsinmo on Jun 11, 2007 10:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs