Game 58 Open Thread: June 8, 2007, 7:10 CDT
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5-2, 5.44 |
2-10, 6.40 |
hat tip to truemun: the cards signed troy percival. that gives st louis four members of the angels' 2002 championship squad, joining spiezio kennedy and eckstein; look for the kevin appier signing to occur any day now.
go figure: against teams whose primary uniform color is red (that's cincinnati, houston, and washington), the cardinals are 11-7 this year. they're holding their own against black (6-4) and purple (4-3), but getting absolutely massacred by teams clad in blue: st louis is an abysmal 5-17 against that particular dye. maybe those 6 upcoming games vs the royals won't be so easy after all . . . . .
tonight's angels starter, bartolo colon, missed his last start with tendonitis in the triceps; the two starts prior to that he got killed, yielding 15 runs and 4 homers in 10.2 innings. prior to that, he had reeled off 5 quality starts in 6 outings. kip wells has only had 1 quality start in his last 9 trips to the mound. i know i did this comparison already this morning, but i'm a glutton for punishment; let's put those 9 trips side by side with anthony reyes' 9 starts this season:
| GS | IP | H | BB | SO | HR | W-L | ERA | |||
| reyes | 9 | 50.1 | 50 | 18 | 39 | 6 | 0-8 | 6.08 | ||
| wells | 9 | 50.1 | 63 | 26 | 32 | 11 | 1-8 | 8.05 |
whatever. go get'm, kipper.
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Comments
Judging by this line from Goold's article...
I would suspect Ryan Franklin will be the next bullpen arm to get a shot at the rotation... Franklin, at least, has been a starter in MLB before...
by The Ol Goaler on Jun 8, 2007 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Is "great stuff"
That Colon fellow is sure a handsome dude, ain't he??? (Yeeeesh!!!)
I'm not sure Wells
I know I can't...
by player2bnamedl8r on Jun 8, 2007 7:10 PM EDT reply actions
Kip's numbers/ERA?
I get like an 8.14 ERA in his games against HOU and CIN so far this year...
Reyes
The 2-seam/4-seam debate is probably relevant, but I just can't believe that has everything to do with why he hasn't been more successful.
Reyes may stack up statistically with the other pitchers, but it's misleading to reduce everything down to raw stats when there is the big-picture problem that the Cardinals do not when games when he pitches. Run support was poor for him, but pitching to the game situation has to count for something.
Unlike Wells, Reyes earned himself a few mulligans for his World Series performance ... but he just hasn't been getting it done. I'm not in any hurry for him to come back.
by willievinceterry on Jun 8, 2007 7:14 PM EDT reply actions
Let me guess...
So Reyes is to blame for the rest of his team NEVER scoring runs when he's on the mound? Would you say that's caused by his "negative energy" or his "bad karma"?
Perhaps he just needs to wear a certain crystal around his neck or make regular offerings up to Jobu when he's pitching, right?
Honestly at this point
Could the Percival signing be telegraphing a trade
Lineups
O. Cabrera ss
V. Guerrero rf
G. Matthews Jr. cf
C. Kotchman 1b
G. Anderson lf
H. Kendrick 2b
M. Napoli c
B. Colon p
D. Eckstein ss
C. Duncan lf
A. Pujols 1b
J. Edmonds cf
S. Rolen 3b
J. Encarnacion rf
A. Kennedy 2b
K. Stinnett c
K. Wells p
oh for the love of
Do they even SHOW angels games on TV in california? I've never seen one... guess I get to go flip channels.
I'm blacked out too
Looks like I'm off to a watering hole.
you can always try a proxy
by JI on Jun 8, 2007 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Wasn't
Shouldn't he still be in? Or is he still aching?
Stinnett
My opinion on catcher's
My $.02
by saladdin69 on Jun 8, 2007 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
Old Alby damn near got himself tossed
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 8, 2007 8:24 PM EDT reply actions
Let's hope
umpire cost us a run
Am I really seeing 53 mph changeups from Colon? Is that right, or is the gun screwed?
That should be Rolens first error...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 8, 2007 8:33 PM EDT reply actions
well
by longhornscardinals on Jun 8, 2007 8:35 PM EDT reply actions
Is it possible ?
by saladdin69 on Jun 8, 2007 8:40 PM EDT reply actions
10/3/1982
That's freaking amazing.
Stinnett now has more homers...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 8, 2007 8:42 PM EDT reply actions
i am drinking a lot of wine tonight
wild.
i must be drinking the same wine
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 8, 2007 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
is there a baseball game going on?
by davethebutcher on Jun 8, 2007 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
so are the producers
Soriano....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 8, 2007 8:49 PM EDT reply actions
Damn kippers
Kip, where did that come from!?
Also,
... If you say so.
the only problem is that
Just looking
the toher night i posted top ugly men off all time
Willie Mcgee
Tom Petty
Aran Harang
and i forgot these two
McJagger
and wilem Dafo
and Kennedy scores if he doesnt get picked...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 8, 2007 9:20 PM EDT reply actions
If Kip gets out of this
Just let him stay in line for the win and get the pen out there.
Can't we trade in this for
I hate Kip Wells....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 8, 2007 9:41 PM EDT reply actions
this is torture
by willievinceterry on Jun 8, 2007 9:42 PM EDT reply actions
I loved the Vlad zone
wells sucks
by willievinceterry on Jun 8, 2007 9:43 PM EDT reply actions
i call 3-run homer for matthews
by willievinceterry on Jun 8, 2007 9:44 PM EDT reply actions
What's sad about it
by saladdin69 on Jun 8, 2007 9:47 PM EDT reply actions
That was the best job Wells has done
And he still gives up 3 runs. Watching it, I have to say that the Vlad AB was a tough one to take - and at least he didn't walk 3 more.
When the SP fails against Cards -
Works every time.
esp with an umpire
Granted, Albert's second was legit, but dunc's was not.
Does anyone know if there's a stat related to
Maybe we should give Wells a new jersey number
Dare I invoke the name?
by vince eating tarp on Jun 8, 2007 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
i'd rather see weaver again than wells once more
by willievinceterry on Jun 8, 2007 10:03 PM EDT reply actions
But he is a Vet
(yes that is sarcastic)
wells for weaver
by willievinceterry on Jun 8, 2007 10:11 PM EDT reply actions
Just tuning in..
2nd.. looks like Kip had flashes of excellence tonight.
Lastly.. did Darren Oliver REALLY strike out the side?
I guess if...
Not MLB TV, but I got bumped off MLB Audio
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 8, 2007 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
IF the cardinals hold on to win...
ok, that's my last post about wells for the night. i was just on my way out the door, hoping it would be an easy win, when i got sucked into the abyss that was the top of the 5th. grrr...
by willievinceterry on Jun 8, 2007 10:18 PM EDT reply actions
He got out of a couple of jams
I think he's just getting tired late in games...
Wells is dead to me.
He's done!
walking the leadoff batter with a 4-0 lead...
by willievinceterry on Jun 8, 2007 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate it when people pop in
well was his
We will lose this game....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 8, 2007 10:27 PM EDT reply actions
that should do it...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 8, 2007 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
ya
Though I think Kennedy would have caught that ball by anderson...
BS it's not poor management....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 8, 2007 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
What the hell is up with that?
That was awful.
by saladdin69 on Jun 8, 2007 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
tj with the
bring back mrs. speez.
Just wonderful
encarnacion is not to blame for this one
by willievinceterry on Jun 8, 2007 10:39 PM EDT reply actions
Franklin in
Never mind
good gawd what the hell
Something tells me
Oh yeah.. don't look now but here come the Cubs.
The weekend we're playing the hottest AL team
Not to mention
Agreed about this game and things slipping away
by willievinceterry on Jun 8, 2007 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope the club doesn't just roll over and
What a bunch of hateful people you are tonight
You all seem so consumed with disappointment over the Reyes decision that you have to direct your hate somewhere--at Wells.
I wrote this when you were railing against Kipp earlier; I haven't looked at the thread since. Enjoy your great bullpen!
by nycardfan on Jun 8, 2007 10:53 PM EDT reply actions
um, the best team in the AL
by RosevilleRedbird on Jun 8, 2007 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Woe buddy...
In fairness
Wells is struggling. He needs to go to the pen. Unlike TLR/Duncan we just want pitchers that get outs without giving up runs. We don't care HOW the pitchers do it as long as they do it.
We are pissed that the started leading the teams starters in K/9 and k/bb was demoted to learn how to strike out FEWER people. ugh, all the while we get to watch this and then look forward to wellemeyer starting.
the Cards brass ought to be ashamed of
Wow!
Hate to say it
You are probably right...
give the Angel's come credit too
Yep
Kip Wells is absolutely the problem...
One QS in 10 starts can't be sugarcoated. And he's partially responsible for the 7th inning meltdown because, as a starter, the 7th is supposed to be his.
I'm not trying to suggest Kip Wells is good
T.J. Busts a Nut
lol
Hey
Innings pitched
by nycardfan on Jun 8, 2007 11:44 PM EDT reply actions
That's not really the best comparison
Last year Suppan started 32 regular season games for us, and fully EIGHTEEN of them were Quality Starts. He then gave us 3 out of 4 more Quality Starts in the post season. That's 21/36 QS's, or 58%.
This year Kip has 4 QS's in 12 starts. That's a very weak 33%.
As for Avg # of IP, my data shows that last year Suppan's regular season AVERAGE was 6.125 IP, with a MEDIAN of 6.0 IP.
Kip Wells this year has an AVERAGE of 5.8 IP, and a MEDIAN of 6.0 IP.
So I would argue that IP is not really the main issue. The issue is Kip's tendency to succumb to the "Big Inning" and put the game out of reach. Even though his average IP is nearly identical to 2006 Suppan's, his ERA is roughly 2 points higher. That's really bad.
If Kip "Doesn't Pitch Very" Wells is supposed to be the replacement for 2006 Suppan, he is NOT measuring up. Since he seems to have decent "stuff" but routinely falls victim to the "big inning", LaDuncan should seriously consider moving Wells to the pen (and recalling Reyes). Perhaps in the pen Kip's tendency to suddenly implode could be more closely managed and possibly avoided without costing the club so many games.
Suppan's has not played well recently
Anyway, Well's did have quality starts at the beginning of the season just as Suppan had but Wells had no run support. Suppan would have won very few games in Wells' slot because the losses early on were due to no run support.
Here's the site for Suppan's recent games: Here's the site: sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5454
by nycardfan on Jun 9, 2007 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Suppan's average
In my opinion, Wells seems to have learned to control the yips when runners are on base (something I still don't think Reyes can do in the big leagues).
He obviously has an endurance problem. I don't think TLR helped that when he made him throw 125 pitches, followed by a game with 100+ pitches. This bracketed his having a child. Maybe he needs work on endurance and maybe there are ways that the team can help him on this.
I still think he has good stuff and am happy he's controlling the yips. Now he needs to see if he can change his endurance. If he can't make that work, he'd be great at middle relief.
by nycardfan on Jun 9, 2007 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Wells is as bad or worse than Reyes...
Wells line against: 282/380/573
Reyes: 346/407/628
The difference is that Wells BABIP with men on is 258 vs 346 for Reyes. Maybe it's partially the "yips", but there's also a decent amount of luck involved, imo...
Yes and Wainwright
by nycardfan on Jun 9, 2007 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
The team put Wells...
As for the Soup-Wells comparison, can we at least agree that a guy who averages 5.2 innings/start with a 107 ERA+ is better than one with a 63 ERA+. Mark Mulder had a 62 ERA+ last year and he was one of the worst starters in the history of the franchise.
Wells was ahead
by nycardfan on Jun 9, 2007 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not admitting Wells...
Let me ask you, was this a "break-through" outing for Wells? Did he do something positive that hadn't happened in his prior outings? Not really. I don't think so. This was par for the course. And so far the course has been an ERA+ of 63. Last year Marquis was at 73 and Mulder was at 62. That's the level Wells is at.
One more question: Are you the "blindhomer" that sponsors Wells BR page? Just wondering...
Wells has fixed some of his problems
By the way, that Marquis guy you are deriding seems to be kicking our behinds now everytime we come up against him. I wonder if he had a similar problem with endurance--Lou tends to pull him earlier than TLR did. With the treatment Wells has received from St. Louis, I hope he has a similar luck as Marquis in the future.
And with all the ravings about Reyes, why isn't there a similar concern with his blowing up innings, not being able to go deep into games, or getting the yips when runners are on base? Plus no one will admit on this site that he simply does not enough pitches for his current skill level to play succesfully at the big leagues. At least Kip has pitches.
And to the hostility I've received for daring to say Kip played well last night. I never said he was great, I said he did well and he left us in a position to win. That's why he wasn't charged with the loss. Those are the rules of the game. The bullpen lost the game. Maybe you should review the meaning of "no decision".
And I repeat again my earlier claim. I still think this site has been filled with a lot of irrational rage lately and that has surprised me.
by nycardfan on Jun 9, 2007 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, doesn't make this loss any easier
Hawksworth and the Redbirds didn't look that great, though. Lots of first pitch or second pitch outs.
by player2bnamedl8r on Jun 8, 2007 11:57 PM EDT reply actions
anyone notice
very professional...
by longhornscardinals on Jun 9, 2007 12:21 AM EDT reply actions
geez.....no fear!
Something NO Cardinal pitcher (except possibly Carpenter) has done effectively over the past 8-9 years. Down and away down and away down and away LaDuncan ad. nauseum. La Russa is so freaked out about being accused of throwing at hitters that there's zero fear facing the Cards rotation. He goes ballistic on his own pitchers if they nick somebody. Hitters dont hesitate to dive across the plate against the Cards staff.
What happened to the high hard one thats keeps hitters honest? Drysdale wouldnt pitch for Duncan.
Tyler Johnson busted something tonite and it was'nt pretty, funny, punny or cute and no babies were involved. I think it was the hope of winning
the game he busted.





















