Buehrle can be had NOW

by stltrav09 on Jun 8, 2007 6:27 PM EDT Comment 38 comments

I know a lot of you have said we should wait on Buehrle because we can probably get him this offseason. But if that's the case, why wait?

The Sox are desperately need two things: Hitting and relief help. The only thing they can spare is starting pitching. They would be willing to part with Buehrle because he is a FA at the end of the year.

With Percival possibly coming in, we could ship out Franklin and/or Looper over to the Sox for Buehrle.

That makes our rotation (when healthy):
Carp
Buehrle
Mulder
Wainwright
Reyes

Then we still have some good bullpen arms like TJ, Thompson, Wellemeyer, Izzy, Percival...

I don't know about you guys but that looks good to me.

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But

If they don't need starting pitching, then why send Looper? I'd much rather have Looper in our rotation than Reyes (as far as this season goes). We could get much more from a team looking for starting pitching for Looper. . .

And is there really a possibilty we're getting Percival? Because from what I've heard, it sounds like nothing more than an unlikely rumor. But if you know more, please let me know.

I just don't see the Sox trading Mark unless they're out of contention. And if they do trade him, I see him being very sought after by teams looking for a rental (driving the asking price up). I dunno, unless we can get an absolute steal, I'd prefer waiting to try and sign him in the offseason.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jun 8, 2007 6:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

RE: Percival - sounds like it's official

They've got a press release at stlcardinals.com and there's a local story at the Post-Dispatch.

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070608&content_id=2 013888&vkey=pr_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/FB857A574097661C862572F4007C258F ?OpenDocument

by BTown Birds fan on Jun 8, 2007 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

Yeah, I just saw that after posting. Boy, talk about feeling like an idiot. You miss out on these things when you're thousands of miles away from St. Louis . . .

With that said, getting Percival is something I'm definitely in favor of. It's always nice to get a proven reliever. Does anyone know the price it cost, though?

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jun 8, 2007 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was wondering about his salary too

I didn't see it listed anywhere; I assume it's quite small....

by BTown Birds fan on Jun 8, 2007 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If it is

then I think this was quite the deal. Low risk but possibility for high reward.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jun 8, 2007 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I say no........

If we do I don't want to get rid of Looper or Franklin I'd rather get rid of Wellemeyer, or if worst gets to worst than give Brad Thompson, or both than yeah, mabey but Looper and Franklin are in good places where their at.

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 8, 2007 7:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

these aren't very realistic

trade proposals. if the white sox are inclined to trade buerhle at midseason (and there's no indication they are), they are going to want some good players back --- not spare parts.

by lboros on Jun 8, 2007 7:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Listening to Chicago Sports Radio

670 The Score on the way to work this morning and they basically said the only person they could trade in which they could get what they needed in return (bullpen help) is Buehrle.

The reason I suggested Looper is because he's been a reliever in the past and with his success this year the Sox would have no problem putting him in the pen. They may move some of their starters to the pen soon.

by stltrav09 on Jun 8, 2007 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be perfectly blunt,

99.9% of fan trade proposals don't fall into the realistic category.

by cardsrul on Jun 9, 2007 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

we can get him

if we offer reyes,and a couple prospects. if they are out if the race they would not want franklin .in my opinion once everybody comes back springer will be released. that is assuming also percival works out

HURRY BACK CARP AND MULDER

by LaRussa4President on Jun 9, 2007 5:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What is the point of giving up Reyes

for Buehrle?

by Valatan on Jun 9, 2007 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can see the reyes thing happening

but Springer has been absolutly solid this year I think we'll probably end up releasing Wellemeyer

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 9, 2007 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Springer has been scary, IMO

he has had to be relieved multiple times in an inning because he wasn't able to get the people out that he was supposed to. Basically, innings start with Springer and end after 2 other guys come in to finish it.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2007 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry I'm kind of retarded

what does IMO mean?

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 9, 2007 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Blog Acronyms

IMO = In my opinion.
IMHO = In my humble opinion.

by Zubin on Jun 9, 2007 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats for clarifying that I've had

that in many responses from other people directed towards me and i thought it was something bad

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 9, 2007 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

or insulting

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 9, 2007 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

why not

the white sox get a major league ready pitcher . we get buerhle. win for the white sox and win for the cardinals if we can resign him.

HURRY BACK CARP AND MULDER

by LaRussa4President on Jun 9, 2007 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Apparently Ken Rosenthal

thinks the Cards are first in line for Buehrle.

Perhaps Tony's "There is nothing out there" speech was just typical misdirection by this team. Adding Percival frees up some bullpen guys that could potentially see someone going over to Chicago.

The only way I take Buehrle is if he agrees to a contract extension upfront.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2007 5:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

or if the chisox ask for stupidly little in return

by Valatan on Jun 9, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trade Isringhausen for Buehrle?

The only point of acquiring Buehrle is to sign him long-term. We aren't making a run this year, but we definitely need long-term rotation help with Reyes on the outs, and few others ready to step in next year.

So if the White Sox want bullpen help, we give them our best guy, and probably get Buerhle and a prospect in return. Meanwhile, we turn to Percival as our closer in the short term, and keep Wainwright in the rotation, as is his long-term trajectory. As far as I know, we have a club option on Isringhausen for 2008, but that's it in terms of commitments. He would be a very palatable acquisition for the Sox.

Granted Percival hasn't been effective as a closer in a long time, but if we're going to fall on our sword, at least we should get something good in return.

by taiko on Jun 10, 2007 12:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

why

why!why! izzy is a solid closer. the cardinals need to keep him. the cardinals can get buerhle without giving up izzy. trading izzy would be the stupid.

HURRY BACK CARP AND MULDER

by LaRussa4President on Jun 10, 2007 4:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

think of it like this:

I agree that Izzy is a very good closer, and he's having a great year. I like him a lot as a fan and was never a part of the faction that booed him last year. He's a valuable asset to a winning team, but not so much for a team that's rebuilding, which I firmly believe the Cardinals must do.

Here's the problem:

If you can give one of two players a three-year contract for $8-12 million per year -- one is Isringhausen, the other is Buehrle -- Which one makes more sense for the team in the long run?

Keep in mind, Izzy will be 35 and has a degenerative hip condition which cannot be cured, it can only be treated via surgery when the pain becomes unbearable for him. Buehrle will be 29, and has pitched over 200 innings in each of the past six years.

That's the root of my suggestion. If you think Buehrle's not worth it, then name somebody better that you would trade Izzy for.

by taiko on Jun 10, 2007 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Guys

The sox need offense and bullpen help. They would not give up Buehrle for Reyes and prospects...

The ONLY guy in their bullpen they are happy with is Danks. They even went to him in the 9th yesterday up 6-1 and he was used the day before as well.

As some of you have pointed out, if Percival works out, that frees up a spot in the rotation. Jimenez is garbage.. first thing they need to do is ship him back to AAA.

I believe the Sox would be interested in the following players:
Izzy
Franklin
Looper
Springer
Thompson
Give them one of these guys and throw in Wellemeyer and I bet we could have Buehrle.

I like all of these guys but Buehrle, Mulder, and Carp WILL win us another pennant.

by stltrav09 on Jun 11, 2007 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Remember where Wellemeyer came from

the AL Central, with the Royals, where he was awful enough to be DFA'ed by one of the worst teams in baseball over the last decade.

Why would the Sox want Wellemeyer?

by mtalken on Jun 11, 2007 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think as much as Buehrle

has said he would like to come here, he is going to be offered Zito money from someone--and he's going to take it. And it won't be from the Cardinals. Sad, but true. We probably won't see him here until he gets to the twilight of his career. Then he'll be old enough and broken enough to be repaired and recycled by Duncan.

by jillsinmo on Jun 11, 2007 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

eerie

I had always kind of hoped Buehrle would sign here once he hit the FA market, but I think you're spot on. Buehrle would surely give the Cards a discount, but I think the Cards will overestimate that discount, and watch him go elsewhere. The only thing is, by the time he's old and broken, Dunc may not be around anymore*.

*Not that I expect/hope TLR and/or Dunc will leave anytime soon, just saying, Buehrle's only 28.

by john vb on Jun 11, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I misread this the first time

and I think you are on the right path.

This is what I put in today's thread:

Could Ryan Franklin, Kelvin Jiminez and John Rodriguez/Skippy get him from the White Sox? The White Sox need bullpen help and a CF.

Franklin is only a 1 year (half year) rental anyways and he is cheap. He has been pretty reliable and can be used as an 8th inning guy or as a #5 starter. Jiminez has some upside, prone to the gopher ball, but strikes me as a rubber arm guy who can throw 5 out of 7 days.

The White Sox currently have 2 guys in CF who are God awful. They've been regretting letting Rowand go since the day he left. I'm not saying Skip is a world beater, however he is a decent defensive outfielder with speed. With Dye leaving as a free agent, they need to stock that outfield with as many capable players as possible. If not, perhaps they take John Rodriguez in hopes that his lefty power bat could reawaken and he could be a stopgap for Dye until something is found this off-season.

Odds are, the White Sox aren't going to get nearly what they think they deserve for Buehrle. With Precival possibly being the future 8th inning guy for the Cardinals, and worst case scenerio TJ could fill the void, I think Franklin becomes expendable if not used as a starter more so than Izzy does.

The White Sox already have a closer and I doubt they would trade for Izzy to use him in the 8th inning. That's not what he does and I believe he has a no-trade clause as a 10-5 guy.

Thinking about it more, now, we'd probably have to give up one more minor league arm as Jiminez just may be too light in value. Rodriguez AND Skippy might both have to go, as well.

But, as someone said above, Carpenter-Mulder-Buehrle will win us another pennant.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 11, 2007 11:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

"cough"

Not a one of the four players you mentioned would pass the smell test in Chicago. Franklin has had a nice couple of months on top of a pretty piss poor career... substitute Russ Springer, who has the track record as a setup man. Add in one of our left-handers - if their bullpen is that ragged, they'll want help on both sides of the plate. Forget the two AAAA outfielders you brought up, neither one would have any more impact for better or worse than one of their own average outfield callups.

And if it takes a centerfielder to get Buehrle, the deal is as good as dead. Edmonds has a no-trade, I believe, and Rasmus is much too high a price to give up.

That is, unless they'd take Ankiel.
/sarcasm

by taiko on Jun 12, 2007 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You really are valuing Buehrle way too high

in thinking the White Sox will get that much in return for him. The clock is ticking on him walking out the door and Williams has already said they aren't trading for 'prospects' they are trading for players who can play today.

Thus, ability to fill gaps now is what all the players I mentioned do.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 12, 2007 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I kind of agree w/ him

I don't thing they'd trade for our garbage

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 12, 2007 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

retort

And I think you're placing far too much currency in the idea that the White Sox will trade Buehrle away for anybody at all, just to get something - anything! - for him. Their only motivation for doing a deal is to help them contend this year, or improve next year. They aren't going to do a trade as a favor to anyone, and certainly not trade one of their best starters for an unproven setup guy and 3 men who shouldn't be anywhere near the 25-man roster of a contender.

Honestly, do you think Jimenez with his ERA of 8.55 is a better "gap-filler" than any replacement-level guy they could call up themselves, for free? If you have the stones to suggest that to Ken Williams in person with a straight face, or better yet the southside season ticket holders, then maybe you should be Jocketty's heir apparent, rather than Luhnow.

by taiko on Jun 12, 2007 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Buehrle is not going to be traded for

anything but a good major leaguer or two and a stud prospect. I wouldn't be surprised if the White Sox went ahead and re-signed him. Durable pitchers, especially left handed ones who have performed reasonably well do not grow on trees. If he hits the market, they will have to be prepared to pay Zito money. The Cardinals "CAN'T" do that.

by jillsinmo on Jun 12, 2007 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

CAN'T is pretty strong...

but "WON'T" is effectively equivalent.

by lordsummer on Jun 13, 2007 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If we are going into rebuilding mode...

Taking everything into account that I have heard:

They want major league ready players...
They need outfield help...
They need relief pitching help...
This only happens if we can sign Buehrle.

Why not offer up a veteran to play center for them and a veteran from the pen to help them out?

My suggestion:
Juan Encarnacion and Russ Springer

They have two lefties in the pen putting up 113 ERA+ in Thornton and Logan, so they don't need another lefty (TJ or Flores). They have no other relievers besides Jenks putting up higher than a 73 ERA+. Springer has been great for the Cards (stat-wise), but is less valuable to us than Izzy or Franklin. Springer, in fact, has nearly been as good as Jenks, by the numbers.

That would free up approximately $7 million from our roster to help us with Buehrle.

stlfan

by stlfan on Jun 12, 2007 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sorry......

but someone in Chicago would probably shoot the general manager if he traded Buehrle for Juan and Russ. They would have to have more, much more. I still think the Chisox are going to re sign him........

by jillsinmo on Jun 12, 2007 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

after reading the main article and seeing what was received for other bona fide aces...I'd shoot him if he were our GM, too, I guess.

stlfan

by stlfan on Jun 12, 2007 1:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Seriously, kids...

Just my two cents' worth less inflation, but as has been said, we're not trading spare parts to get Buehrle. If I were Jock, and really wanted Buerhle, I think I'd be on the horn with the Sox asking, "Is Scott Rolen ENOUGH?" Just checking the hitting stats on the Sox website for their two scrubs listed at third base, Scotty would roughly double their safe hits from that spot in the order. Which might be enough to interest the South Siders.

My personal pipe dream is that after we failed to buy Schmidt, DeWitt and Jock and Luhnow and whoever else makes these decisions went back to the smoke-filled room and said, "We're saving the cash to buy Buehrle next winter," and dropped some broad hints to B's agent not to settle for less than the mine AND the shaft to extend his contract with the Sox this season. (Pipe dream, like I said.)

by lordsummer on Jun 13, 2007 3:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs