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Around SBN: Spencer Hall's College Football Week 12 Alphabetical

2007 amateur draft live thread

today's regular post, a look at the cardinal offense over the last 30 days, is directly below; please head there for all non-draft-related discussion.

as for this thread, i encourage you to fill the comments section with opinions, reactions, and any information you can dig up about the cardinals' draftees --- but please remember do not post video at this site, less'n you want to risk crashing the server. if you find any pertinent video on the web, just put up a link. thanks for understanding.

a couple of add'l pre-draft links of interest, both from derrick goold: in the post-dispatch he writes about STOUT, the cards' draft-analysis tool, and at Bird Land he takes a stab at naming the 14 players on luhnow's short list of desired 1st rounders.

scroll to the bottom of this post for links to other active draft sites; game thread tonight at ~6 pm central.

CARDINALS 2007 DRAFT PICKS, day one

#18, 1st round: PETER KOZMA, ss, Owasso hs. snippets from the mlb.com scouting report: "He plays the game the right way and is very fundamentally sound." . . . "He makes all the routine plays" . . . "a hard-working kid with some tools. His fundamentals and makeup are off the charts." not very sexy pick. . . . . here's what they said at Baseball Prospectus: "Kozma has a little less risk than your average prep shortstop. What comes with that, however, is less of an upside than other prep shortstops in the draft like Justin Jackson, Will Middlebrooks, and to me, Drew Cumberland." more info sources:

  • here is derrick goold's blog entry on kozma. teaser: With a couple of the players they had their eyes on taken in the two immediate picks before theirs at No. 18, the Cardinals went with a guy they know, they know personally and they believed was not going to last much longer. . . . The Cardinals were ready to take pitcher Blake Beavan, a righthander from Irving, Texas., but the Rangers took him with the 17th selection. 'Picked our pocket,' one Cardinal scout said."
  • this is kozma's high school baseball program web site
  • good info from baseball america --- but they had kozma going in the supplemental round. . . .
  • a profile from Rise Magazine
  • story from the Tulsa World
  • jonathan mayo had kozma going at #21 to the blue jays in his final mock draft. blurb: "The thinking all along was that tHe Jays would take one college player and one high schooler with their two first rounders. It was just a matter of which two. It's still possible they could move earlier with the high school pick to get a Matt Dominguez-type first, but if it plays out like this, Kozma is the kind of high schooler the Jays would take a long look at. While he's not toolsy in terms of the wow factor, he does just about everything pretty well and unlike many high school middle infielders, should be able to stay at short long-term. He handles the bat well and has some pop at the plate to boot. His best tool might be his makeup, which might put him over the top into the first round."
  • kudos to the mock drafters at Minor League Ball: they correctly called the Kozma pick, albeit at #36 . . . . well done, fewgoodcards.
  • from SB Nation brother site Lone Star Ball: "Kozma is just a baseball player and does everything pretty well. He's performed well as a right handed hitter and looks like he can stick at SS. He doesn't have huge upside offensively, but seems like one of those guys who has a good shot at making the majors in some capacity, especially for a high school player. BA recently projected him at 21, presumably just because he's a SS and people need that, and I'd be a little disappointed if Texas took him with either of their top two picks . . . . ."
  • more links at whiteyball.
  • finally, from the Wichita State web site: "Last spring for Owasso High School, Kozma hit .553 with 53 runs, 19 doubles, three triples, 11 home runs, 11 stolen bases and 54 RBI. He was named a high school All-American in 2006 and played in the World Wood Bat Association fall championship in October. Baseball America listed him as the best defensive player at the championship and as the 12th best senior in attendance. He also played in the Area Code Games in Long Beach, Calif., this past summer and Baseball America listed him as the sixth best prospect. Baseball America also listed him as the 11th-best prospect in the 2007 high school class. Other honors include two-time all-conference, all-Metro in 2006 and conference Player of the Year in 2006."

#36, 1st round supp: CLAY MORTENSEN, rhp, Gonzaga. scouting report says he throws fastball 89-92, slider 81-84, change in the low 80s. Summary: "While there are often college seniors who make very good pros, it's rare for there to be one like Mortensen, a legitimate "prospect" on the rise in his senior season. He's got three usable pitches and a body frame that appears able to handle added strength, which could make his fastball even better. He should be a very intriguing senior sign this summer." more info:
  • his player bio at Gonzaga's home page and a piece about his being named a third-team all-american
  • an article on Mortensen's being named a Roger Clemens Award nominee
  • from Baseball America: "Looking for a fast riser? How about Gonzaga¡¯s Clayton Mortensen, who wasn¡¯t on the radar entering the year. Mortensen, who has had a 16-strikeout game this spring, has allowed only one homer all spring in 82 innings, has racked up 84 strikeouts and has pushed his Bureau ranking up from slightly below average to above average. With a sinker that has sat in the 90-94 mph range, Mortensen¨Cthe rare college senior with some projection in his 6-foot-4, 190-pound frame¨Ccould push himself into the first three rounds."
  • here's a scouting report from MVN. they like mortensen a lot . . . but these guys projected him as a 5th-rounder. quoting: "At 6¡ä4¡å, 190 pounds and sporting three good pitches (fastball, slider, change), Mortensen is more than just an ¡®easy sign college senior¡¯. Frankly, the combination of his stuff, his potential and the fact that he is going to be a cheap signee may well mean Clayton is gone by here."
  • btw, mortensen went in the 4th round in sickels' mock draft.

#71, 2d round (from Brewers, compensation for Suppan): DAVID KOPP, rhp, clemson. mlb scouting report says he has below-average command and messy mechanics, throws a decent fastball and a slider that projects to be above-average. add'l links:

  • his clemson tigers bio page
  • keith law of espn had kopp rated as the 65th-best player in the draft. scout.com rated him at #66. baseball america had him rated at #81. in sickels' mock draft, kopp went in the 3d round at #99.

#82, 2d round: JESS TODD, rhp, arkansas. strengths: above-average command and excellent makeup. on may 23 he faced the #9 team in the nation, south carolina, and struck out 17 batters, including the first 9 men he faced.

  • after the 17-strikeout game, Baseball America was duly impressed.
  • overall, BA had todd rated #110 in this draft. in sickels' mock draft, he went at #108.
  • according to this message board, todd came on strong late in the year --- registered double-digit strikeout totals in each of his last 4 starts, fanned 64 men in his last 49 innings on the year.

#112, 3d round: DANIEL DESCALSO, 3b, uc-davis.

#142, 4th round: KYLE RUSSELL, of, u of texas. had 1st-round or supplemental round talent --- big power, strikes out too much, and won't be an easy sign.

#172, 5th round: THOMAS EAGER, rhp, cal poly SLO. i hate the way this guy wears his hat.
for more draft discussion:

0 recs  |  Comment 387 comments

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Goold's 14
Got a chuckle out of #5.

by paCardsFan on Jun 7, 2007 1:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I posted this on the last thread, but once again..
Tomo Ohka has been DFAed by the Blue Jays. What do you guys think about taking a flyer on him?
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 1:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Stay on target
While I appreciate the info and there are plenty of people probably interested in discussing this, let's try to limit the discussion to the draft on this post. It helps to keep the conversation focused instead of spread over several posts/diaries.
Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.

by Solanus on Jun 7, 2007 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

right -- thanks guys
the morning thread is active for non-draft discussion; if possible, let's keep this one focused on the draft.

by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon Nick Schmidt!
At 18; doubt he'll be around at 36.

by craig3410 on Jun 7, 2007 2:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

First Round
I find it very interesting that Baseball America, in their mock draft, actually has Matt Wieters falling all the way to the Cardinals at #18.  If he were there, I would think the Cards would almost have to take him, just on a value for the pick basis.  You know, if he does go to the Cards, they would immediately have some of the best catching depth in all of baseball, between the major league level, Bryan Anderson, and the new kid.  

If Wieters doesn't get there, which I find a little doubtful, my next two guys I would like to see would be Madison Baumgarner, a high school LHP, and Joe Savery, LHP out of Rice.  Savery was thought to be a top 5 pick coming in to the year, but he's had a some injury issues this year and his stock has fallen.  

I must say, I'm way more excited about watching this thing on TV than I should be, considering that only like 4 percent of these guys will ever even get a look.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i too
am really excited not really sure why

by truemun12 on Jun 7, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beau Mills
I am intrigued by this guy, maybe he could get to us at 18

by JBagKY on Jun 7, 2007 2:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mills
I'm not real high on Mills.  Good bat, but his build is a little big, and he seems a little dead, body wise.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

price gone
not really a shocker, kid looks good
2/3rd's of the earth is covered by water, the other third is coverd by Jim Edmonds

by cardsphan04 on Jun 7, 2007 2:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I mean seriously...
How many players does Boras have in this draft???
2/3rd's of the earth is covered by water, the other third is coverd by Jim Edmonds

by cardsphan04 on Jun 7, 2007 2:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Who was the pitcher
..that you guys were talking about a week or so ago that some wanted but was being represented by Boras?

by paCardsFan on Jun 7, 2007 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Price #1
No surprise there.  Now it gets interesting.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Moustakas at #2?
That's a little surprising.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I wonder what josh vitters IQ is?
lol, sorry he just seems funny
2/3rd's of the earth is covered by water, the other third is coverd by Jim Edmonds

by cardsphan04 on Jun 7, 2007 2:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That's Mean
But very accurate.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As i watch this on espn...
I get a kick out of how every time it goes to what the cardinals have done in the past it always shows..

Albert Pujols drafted in the 13th round in 1999

Got to love AP

2/3rd's of the earth is covered by water, the other third is coverd by Jim Edmonds

by cardsphan04 on Jun 7, 2007 2:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

wieters gone...
I think he is gonna be hard to sign...Boras is very high on him
2/3rd's of the earth is covered by water, the other third is coverd by Jim Edmonds

by cardsphan04 on Jun 7, 2007 2:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Alright
Guys I want:  

Ross Detwiler (pipe dream, I know)  I'm shocked he wasn't on Goold's top 14.  

Porcello RHP
Tim Alderson LHP
Jarrod Parker RHP
Ahrens High School 3B  
Baumgarner LHP
Joe Savery LHP

I don't know why, but Andrew Brackman scares the hell out of me.  His delivery just makes me nervous.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Shit
Messed up on Alderson, he's right handed.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baumgarner or Ahrens
Though I'm higher on Baumgarner. Not just because of his name, either.
The Falcoholic
The SBNation's Atlanta Falcons Blog

by Dave the Falconer on Jun 7, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baumgarner
has wicked velocity.  No real complementary pitches, but his upside could be huge.  And you're right, he does have a cool name.  

I just like Alderson because he had a 111/4 K/BB rate in 65 innings.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Missouri draft picks
Detwiler was just picked, he is probably not the highest player from the state of MO ever selected, but who is?

http://whiteyball.wordpress.com

by whiteyball on Jun 7, 2007 2:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

when the cards get onto the clock
be ready for a quickie poll --- i'll ask everybody who they want the cards to pick, out of the remaining players available

by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 2:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

LaPorta to Milwaukee
That's a real surprise.  He's a 1B, can't really play anywhere else, interesting.  

I am kind of glad to see him off the board, though.  An awful lot of the pundits had him going to the Cards, and I just don't think that would have been a good idea.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I guess they figure
that they can move Prince Fielder to a middle infield position

by tdawg on Jun 7, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My son was high on this pick......
really, really likes the guy.  Only time will tell-it really is in a lot of ways a roll of the dice.

by jillsinmo on Jun 8, 2007 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Casey Weathers
The bullet is dodged.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 2:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think
the Cardinals would have taken Weathers anyway.  They loaded up on college closers in last year's draft, and I think they may go more with a swing for the fences approach this year.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with Dan
bullet dodged -- the weather's pick scared me.

But he makes sense for the Rockies -- awfully high though.

by azruavatar on Jun 7, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Weathers???
College closer in the top 10?  That's really shocking.  I guess the Rockies are looking for quick impact.  Weird.  

Board's looking pretty decent for #18.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

unless they go with ahrens
it looks likely they'll take a pitcher, no?

by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 2:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There's a very good chance
that several of the arms nearly everybody thought would be gone at 18 could still be there.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damnit
Parker's gone to the DBacks.  

Kid's gonna be dynamite, I think.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This has been strange
There are a lot of guys still around that I didn't think would be

by JBagKY on Jun 7, 2007 3:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea
who these kids are.

Hope the geeks that be in the Card's front office do.

by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 3:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hey Bob
watch it with geeks comments.  Little close to home, there.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bumgartner
That hurts.  

Tell you what, the Giants could have the most terrifying rotation in baseball in a couple of years.  Cain, Lincecum, if Bumgartner works out... good god.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Still Around
Rick Porcello RHP
Tim Alderson RHP
Kevin Ahrens 3B
Joe Savery LHP
Andrew Brackman RHP
Matt Dominguez 3B  

Still don't like Brackman.  Feels too much like Chris Lambert and Philip Pope to me.  College pitcher, but still 'raw'.  I just don't know.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

rumor has it he may need TJ surgery
but I'd love it if the Cardinals snag him at 36.  I think Brackman is out of the first round though.

by azruavatar on Jun 7, 2007 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahrens
I saw somewhere that said he could play SS.  Don't know if thats true.  If anyone knows your wisdom would be greatly welcome.

by Stan and Slaughter on Jun 7, 2007 3:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ahrens to Short
I've heard a lot of conjecture on that too.  He has the build for it, but I don't really know how his range is.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You Know...
I'm beginning to think the Cards should try to draft Bruce Campbell.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Gimme me some sugar, baby!
Wrong Bruce Campbell?
Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.

by Solanus on Jun 7, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope, right guy
The Old Spice ad just keeps running.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bruce Campbell....
I like it. He could be in the majors by later this year....

by tnek5 on Jun 7, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good
he has no defensive position.

by azruavatar on Jun 7, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts too
I think Mills makes a nice pick for an AL club.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bob
everybody's looking for you over at the "Carp ahead of schedule" diary.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't remember
the last time I was actually happy to be off work in the middle of the week.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

QUICKIE POLL
with the rangers on the clock --- one pick before st louis:

a. who should the cardinals pick
b. who will the cardinals pick

by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 3:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i think they should take porcello
but i think they will take nick schmidt

by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

crossing my fingers
for matt harvey, but nick schmidt seems like a safe bet

by truemun12 on Jun 7, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
although Schmidt this far down wouldn't be bad
"Slide DiMaggio, slide!" "Hey, my name isn't DiMaggio, my name is mm..mmmm...mmm....mud."

by cmat on Jun 7, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

arkansas native....
being that i'm an arkansas native, i'm all for a nick schmidt pick.  sold arm.  nothing flashy.  just effective.  very good, but not great "stuff."  

oh yeah....he's a LEFTY.  

that's like gold, man.  gold.

by busch league on Jun 7, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

smoker

by johnstonburg on Jun 7, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Smoker
wouldn't be bad.  I had forgotten all about him.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cards pick
I like Porcello too.  I'm not big on Nick Schmidt.  He's a fairly local product, which is cool, and he's had a good year, but I'm hoping for the 'home run' pick.  Schmidt's upside is lower than some of these other guys.  

I still think Joe Savery could be a real good bet here, but I can't tell if there's any way he could fall all the way into the supp. round.  

Just not Brackman, I hope.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Schmidt
As a guy just following the experts on this draft, I have no clue who they will or should take.  As a guy from Arkansas, I personally would like to see Schmidt get taken, though.

by Cardinal70 on Jun 7, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Schmidt
the way this is going, Schmidt could end up falling into the supp. round.  Not sure, but he would be a steal if he got there.  I'd just like to see the super high ceiling guy in the first round this year.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should pick the high-ceiling...
high schooler Porcello (since I'm not signing the checks)

Will take Harvey, who will be very good.

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They should pick Michael Main
And I hope that they do.

by ReplacementLevelPoster on Jun 7, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

DAMN!
there goes ahrens
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Jun 7, 2007 3:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd guess
but I don't know anything about this.

I'm not sure I want Schmidt from what I read.

by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 3:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

hmm
Cardinals should pick: porcello
will pick: main or harvey

by azruavatar on Jun 7, 2007 3:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree
I wouldn't count out Brackman or Frazier
if they take porcello, he probably becomes the number 1 pitching prospect in the org.  I don't see how you can let him fall to the likes of the Yankees or Mets

http://whiteyball.wordpress.com

by whiteyball on Jun 7, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I swear to god cardinals
If I hear "polished" in ESPN's coverage of your first round pick, I'll start killing executives.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 3:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

LOL
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon Porcello
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Pocello
They need to take him

by JBagKY on Jun 7, 2007 3:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Por - Cello
Clap clap clapclapclap

by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 3:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dammit.
Another middle of the road middle infielder

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

wow

by johnstonburg on Jun 7, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wait
"He looks like a ballplayer"

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ugh
Ridiculous. Spend the money, you tools.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Peter Kozma
Peter Kozma, SS, Owasso High School (OK)
Height/Weight: 6-1, 180 | DOB: 4/11/88

Kozma is a solid player who does not project to be a star, but an average major leaguer. He is a hard worker who gets the most out of his abilities. Kozma has excellent hitting skills and developing power. He also has above-average speed and is a solid base runner. Defensively, Kozma has an average arm and range at shortstop. He is comparable to Mark Loretta, albeit with more athleticism. Kozma is a relatively advanced high school player and he has committed to play college ball at Wichita State University.

by Carps on Jun 7, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

18th overall
for an "average major leaguer".

bleech.

by craig3410 on Jun 7, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baseball Prospectus' Take

37. [Ranking in the Top 50] Peter Kozma, SS, Owasso HS (OK)

Pros: Line-drive bat with excellent feel for contact; plus-plus defender with smooth shortstop actions and a strong, accurate arm.

Cons: On the smallish side, and not the kind of body that will fill out much; an average runner.

by holden on Jun 7, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

So we drafted a guy
We might have been able to get at #36. Marvelous!
Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.

by Solanus on Jun 7, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

holy crap
sounds like we drafted david eckstein.  

sigh....

by busch league on Jun 7, 2007 3:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Eck isn't even average, defensively...
Eck has no range and no arm. This guy has is apparently average in both.

by DiscoJer on Jun 7, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BOOOOOO
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 3:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

lamest scouting video
I think our 1st Round Pick potentially has the lamest highlight video of any 1st Rounder (from the MLB.com draftcast site).

Then again, judging by the posted descriptions (e.g., "He's David Eckstein", "Loretta", or "Adam Kennedy"), I don't know why I expected his scouting video to be eye-opening.

WTF?

by goodymobb on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

God Damnit.
low ceiling, 'looks like a ballplayer'.  We just drafted a taller version of Eckstein.  

'no one tool jumps out'  

Oy.

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What happened
to the Cardinals that drafted JD Drew and Rick Ankiel and just showed them the money?

Leave it to the Cardinals to make a high school pick that I don't even like.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 3:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Are we trying
to have the team with the biggest heart?

by JBagKY on Jun 7, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

WOW
A more athletic Mark Loretta.

by tdawg on Jun 7, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

uh oh...
"projects to be an average major leaguer"

I guess this means he'll never see Memphis?

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

vomit
kozma

tools, nothing exceptional about him though.

bad pick

by azruavatar on Jun 7, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Luhnow and Dewitt suck...
What an AWFUL pick. Porcello or Harvey is who we should've taken, absolutely terrible terrible pick.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Phillies should take no time with their next
pick.

Either that, or they're so stunned, they'll wait the 5 mins and take Porcello.

by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I
am officially pissed.  You draft upside early, "grinders" later.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I guess I'm happy.
It says here he was a Wichita State recruit and I'm a Missouri State fan.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/2007xrnd.php?rnd=1

Larry Walker for hitting coach!

by effin fisk on Jun 7, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this cant be
one of the elite 14 guys they had....is it???

by Dave0585 on Jun 7, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

People here are so funny
thinking the world ends just because we don't pick someone that they like.  

by saladdays on Jun 7, 2007 3:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

and you're so superior
to all of them, saladdays. . . . thanks for sharing.

by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny-maybe
And many of us probably have little clue.  

But when you see 1st rounders from HS picked in the 2005 draft, pitching well in the big leagues already - I'd like just once for one to be a Cardinal.

by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

addendum
pitching - and batting - in the big leagues.

by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Get over yourself...
This is a draft day thread in case you didn't notice...it's no different than someone overreacting when someone makes an error in a game day thread.
Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm only being realistic
And I'm only really talking about the extreme people who are seeming to suggest the whole organization is crumbling.  Regular dissent is fine.

And it is different than someone overreacting to an error, as that can cause a loss in a game that is actually being played.  This is all speculative here.

by saladdays on Jun 7, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not any different...
It's the same premise.
Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Larry
Is there a way to make it possible to reply to 'old' diaries?  I was using that old diary in a link in my sig, and it appears that if it falls off the first page, you can't reply to it.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 3:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

all threads close after 7 days
that's an anti-spam device. but if you let me know which diary it is (post the link), i can re-open it manually.

by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The VEB and Luhnow relationship
takes its first downturn. This is going to be an interesting day.

by enoscountry on Jun 7, 2007 3:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

did we just
give up on tyler greene???

by Dave0585 on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Phils
reached too.

by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yikes
That's pretty undefendable.  They have the money to get a "signability" guy.
Pujols < .300 (it worked for .200)

by joker24 on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

eh..
nobody knows s*** right now, including Keith Law. Let's see how he does with the Muckdogs...

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Exactly
This is all projection at this point.  Even the very top picks aren't necessary going to do anything in the majors.  This is not an NBA or NFL draft people.

by saladdays on Jun 7, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Phillies Take Savery
I THINK I'M GOING TO LOSE MY MIND!
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Philadelphia drafts a pitcher
who had minor labrum surgery?  That's always a good decision.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This is such GARBAGE
He would've been there with our next pick.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this pisses me off
if they had a green room for the draftees, he wouldnt even be there
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Jun 7, 2007 3:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Cannot believe it....
Porcello and Harvey available...Main as well.  I thought they were talking about making a splash and going for a high-ceiling type.

Should have taken Porcello...unbelievable.

Worst thing about it...if they really wanted Kozma he probably could have been had at 36.

Unbelievable!!!

I think this was a terrible pick and I probably like Kozma more than most.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 3:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Exactly
That's what bothers me the most. I don't mind the picking of Kozma, but I definitely think we could've waited until 36.
On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jun 7, 2007 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

different lenses
i was wondering if this wouldn't be the case after reading this quote from goold's article today
"We have a very different way of looking (at the players)," said Jeff Luhnow, the Cardinals vice president and farm director who enters his third draft with the team. "We have different lenses that we put on them that will separate them in very unique ways. It is possible our first pick or second pick will be a little bit of a head-scratcher for the pundits who have predicted (those) rounds. I think we have better information. We have better and different information."

by imissrex on Jun 7, 2007 3:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

unless that information
involves Peter Kozma throwing 98 with movement, I don't care about it. There's no excuse taking a guy in the first round that you can get with your second pick, when there are a ton of signability guys still around to snap up.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup...
The worst part is he probably still would have been around at 36.

Can't believe they didn't take Porcello or even Harvey or Main.

WOW!

Let's see who falls to 36...maybe they will sign someone for "over slot" there.

Very disappointing though.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the thing I don't get about Kozma
What's his upside? .300/.350/.433, if you're really lucky?

And he's in high school! So they're picking a guy who grades out to be average if everything breaks right, and he has four years worth of things that need to break right before he'll show up in a big league uniform.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 3:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

.300/.350/.433...
I'd be ecstatic if he could play a respectable SS and hit like that...absolutely thrilled.
Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me too,
but I don't like the idea of drafting a guy in the mid first round who, at the top level of his abilities as per your scouts, doesn't have a real shot of turning into an all-star.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly
a HS kid whose CEILING is a better mark loretta. i realize that at #18 we're not getting lincecum, but with all the cash flowing in from the WS and new stadium, and the money being SAVED on the roster this year, the cards should DEFINITELY be making high-ceiling/low-signability picks. don't understand this one, they could have gotten him in the supplemental.
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's wrong with a better Loretta?
Mark Loretta has actually had quite a good major league career.

The Cardinals need 2B/SS. They them now, but they will need them 3-4 years from now as well. They don't have any in the minors, AFAIK.

by DiscoJer on Jun 7, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They are very short...
in middle infield prospects.

Still though, Porcello IMO is the best pitcher in the entire draft and he was availabe at 18...maybe he is still there at 36?

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dammit dammit dammit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am incredibly pissed off right now.

DAMMIT

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe we'll
pull a Cleveland Browns maneuver and get Porcello at 36...

I'm trying to be positive here...

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 4:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Porcello
won't make it past the Yankees at #30.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kozma
he reminds me a little of Rasmus at this stage.  I have some links if you follow below.

http://whiteyball.wordpress.com

by whiteyball on Jun 7, 2007 4:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rasmus
broke Bo Jackson's state home run record in high school. Peter Kozma might not have his high school's home run record.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kozma reminds me of Rasmus
His Sr. year number:.522 this season with 11 home runs, 55 RBI, 14 stolen bases and 56 runs scored, boasting a .614 on-base percentage and a 1.106 slugging percentage. Kozma also hit the game-winning home run in the Class 6A state championship game to give Owasso its sixth title since 1998. Kozma batted .700 (14-for-20) during the 2007 postseason with four home runs and seven RBI.

The power numbers was the glaring difference I first noticed between the 2.  And I never said he was as good or would be as good. But he reminds of Rasmus as he seems like he has good character, played in a winning program in HS, nice looking lefty swing, and lots of success in the playoffs during their Sr. year.

http://whiteyball.wordpress.com

by whiteyball on Jun 7, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so you're saying he's like rasmus, in that
a. he's a lefty
b. he played on a good HS team
c. he has good character

tell you what, if those are the characteristics we're looking for, we can probably find them in every draft pick we make from here on out.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lefty?
The Scouting Video link from the MLB.com draftcast shows a right-handed hitter........

A few possibilities:

1- He switch hits.
2- The video is of another dude.
3- He doesn't have a "nice looking lefty swing" at all.

Not sure which is the case, but something doesn't jibe between your description and the video linked from the site.

by goodymobb on Jun 7, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right handed
Kozma bats right and throws right.

by whiteyball on Jun 7, 2007 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rasmus..
had incredible power, speed and a cannon for an arm.

Kozma has.. makeup that is off the charts.  Something that you can't chart is off the chart.

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well, by definition,
if you can't chart it...
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sounds like everyone likes porcello, main, harvey
or, rather, everyone likes porcello and the other two are liked by enough that they're the consensus.

any chance any of these three are still around at the next pick?

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm from Oklahoma..
and you hear absolutely NOTHING about this guy.

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Chances are
the Yankees will take Porcello

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Who got the supplemental pick for Lee?
Does Milwaukee get it or does Texas get it although they had him for only 3 months?

by enoscountry on Jun 7, 2007 4:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Texas
They would get it even if they only had him for one day as long as it was at the end of the season.

by mikedallas23 on Jun 7, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i love the Giants draft so far...
... i'm confused by the Cards'.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 4:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Main, Porcello, Smoker,
Harvey, Alderson, Simmons are all still available, and there's only, what, 14 more picks between us and our supp pick...

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 4:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There goes Alderson...
the thing with Harvey and Porcello is that their options clock is going to start from day one and we don't even have any space right now on our 40-man.

Not that we couldn't make space, but these kids would have to stick by age 21 or 22. Money aside, that's a real reason to back off those guys, imo.

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baseball Analysts Website.
I find it odd that the only pick they didn't have a comment on (good or bad) was the Cardinals.

by Carps on Jun 7, 2007 4:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

their comments
are probably like the fans from "Major League": "I never heard of half these guys." "Who are these @$%^$#& guys?!?"
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is truly...
everything one would ever want to know about Peter Kozma.  

Thanks for pulling it all together lboros...

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

schmidt to the fathers
personally, i think the pitching-rich just got a hell of alot richer with this pick.

by busch league on Jun 7, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Video of Kozma on MLB's Draft Tracker
He looks like he has a decent arm and fields the ball well (only two grounders shown).

He looks like he has a pretty sweet swing, for a right-handed hitter.  It could be seen as a little long, but it will get refined in the minors - he's only 18.  It looks like he goes and gets the ball wherever it is pitched and doesn't try to do too much with it (goes with the pitch already!)

He has decent time on home-to-first...he was not trying to beat out an infield hit when timed...(an easy double at about 4.3 seconds to first.)

Those are about the only three things shown on the tape (approx. 1:20 in length)

stlfan

by stlfan on Jun 7, 2007 4:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

kozma
As someone who is perrenially among the league leaders in makeup, I bet he runs every time like there's a play at first.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

those bastards!
Why must the Tigers keep exacting revenge on us!

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 4:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that rotation
verlander, miller, porcello

holy crap that's scary

by azruavatar on Jun 7, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

looks like
The Tigers are taking Porcello...

by jealousblues on Jun 7, 2007 4:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I was just watching
some of the scouting videos, both on TV and on a couple of websites, on the Main kid.  His arm is incredibly fast.  He's got that same sort of lightning fast arm action as Lincecum and some of those guys.  I wasn't really familiar with him before, but I have to say now that I think the Cards missed the boat on him.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 4:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

how many times...
... will the Tigers make it to the Series in the next 10 years?

i'll set the over/under at 5.5.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 4:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Porcello to the Tigers
I take back my comment earlier about the Giants having the most terrifying rotation in the game.  

Verlander
Bonderman
A. Miller
Robertson
Porcello?  

By the way, I love Porcello's mechanics.  Just beautiful.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 4:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Last year's draft question
Did we end up signing Mark McCormick?  If so, where is he right now in our organization?  I tried finding stats for him, but I couldn't.  Anyone know?

by Molina4MVP on Jun 7, 2007 4:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

McCormick
was actually from the 2005 draft class.  The Cards did sign him, he had an excellent debut, then took a little downturn last season, with some command problems cropping up, (again) and I believe he had surgery in the offseason.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kozma
I bet he did well at the wooden bat championship deally...

by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 4:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

McCormick
Has an incredible amount of walks and strikeouts at Quad Cities..

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

who's left?
do the cards take ANOTHER middle infielder and get jackson too?

after all, that'd pretty much bring the farm system's middle infield prospect total to two.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Josh Smoker
He's still on the board.

I'm down with the Kozma pick, now that I've had some time to let it sink in. We took the high-ceiling SS last year in Pham and it didn't work out. Kozma will stick at short, at least. Would have been more excited about Porcello, but we picked a good, well-rounded ballplayer. Plenty of teams behind us made much worse picks.

by liam on Jun 7, 2007 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kozma
My big problem is that I really think he would have been around at 36.  He just doesn't have the ceiling to justify using the highest pick this organisation has had in awhile on him.  When you look at some of the high upside arms behind him that fell because of financial concerns, this team could have gotten far more value out of the pick.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More from the "On the bright side"
department: at least we didn't take a 5'9, 155lb outfielder...

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 4:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

you gotta be kidding me.....
Is it too early to ask for Luhnow's resignation??

by Jtip20 on Jun 7, 2007 4:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

speaking as a guy who hates the pick...
yes. way too early.
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully we take
Julio Borbon.

Or maybe Michael Burgess..

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

God I hope not...
Borbon

Juan Pierre-esque.

This would be a terrible draft if we took this guy.

HARVEY!!!!

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow!
Andrew Brackman.  I'm really glad that he's off the board.  Any chance we'll take Matt Harvey (hahahahah)

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

nope, the giants
are going to take him. christ how excited does sf have to be right now
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

End of first Thoughts
I don't even feel like talking about the Cardinals' pick.  

Teams that did well:  Tigers, Rangers, Giants.  

Teams that did poorly:  Cards, Twins, Reds, Brewers, whichever team took the catcher in the 20s that was way overdrafted.  (I forget who at the moment)

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 4:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Smoker
would be good.  Harvey, I'm not super familiar with.  Savery one pick after the Cards and Main about five later are literally clouding my vision right now.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah...
... i'm not an expert on this stuff, but i was hoping they'd take Main.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Main
Like I said earlier, I wasn't real familiar with him before, but his arm speed is incredible.  That alone was enough to convince me.  It's just not something you see almost ever.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My take..
If Matt Harvey is still around, or Julio Borbon for that matter at 36, there is no excuse for not drafting and signing one of them.  Kozma will probably be below slot money and we'll have money to sign a Boras client.
Granted, I think it's just another example of a cheap ownership.

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Quote from the Gould article linked to above...
"In interviews with Cardinals officials immediately after the pick the comparisons ranged from Nomar Garciaparra to Skip Schumaker and Jack Wilson."

Hmmm. That is quite a range.

jwilson

by taguchi on Jun 7, 2007 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

also that...
the cards considered porcello unsignable. sigh.
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

jeezus...
... Giants had 3 1st rounders AND 2 of the first 4 supplementals. 5 picks in the first 35 or so.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 5:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think I heard this morning that the Padres
Have 8 in the first 90.  That is pretty amazing.

by OCCardsFan on Jun 7, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good Thing
We didn't sign Moises Alou, as a pundit suggested we should have done back in the dark days in April.

by liam on Jun 7, 2007 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait
Is the compensation round televised?

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 5:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Looks like no
And a good thing... That was taking forever.

by liam on Jun 7, 2007 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They can still pull out a good draft
But over drafting a 1st rounder by 20+ slots is not the way to start.  Did they really think this guy wouldn't be around at 36?
Pujols < .300 (it worked for .200)

by joker24 on Jun 7, 2007 5:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

several people...
... thought the Jays might take him @ 21.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something surprised the Blue Jays
They made a ridiculous pick.

by liam on Jun 7, 2007 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're wrong
I think they KNEW he wouldn't be there at #36.

by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now that I read more
I stand corrected.  
Pujols < .300 (it worked for .200)

by joker24 on Jun 7, 2007 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can that be right...
Astros first pick is 111th?

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that's because they signed
woody williams and carlos lee

by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah...
I forgot about Williams, and there's over 30 supp picks this year.

Talk about adding insult to injury...

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rasmus
Wasn't he projected to not have a lot of upside also? That worked out pretty well. Of course, I think we took him in the supplemental round.

by Carps on Jun 7, 2007 5:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No
he was taken in the first round and expected to have a high upside.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No
Rasmus was a first rounder, 28th overall.  

He was thought to have a big upside, though.  He broke the Alabama state home run record, (set by Bo Jackson) and did it as a skinny teenager.  His power was projected to be well-above average when he filled out.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was a first rounder...
we got the pick from the BoSox in return for losing Renteria, maybe that's the confusion...

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ah crap...
I see Borbon in our future. He's the second coming of Freddy Bynum...

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

NO BORBON!!!
That would be worse than the Kozma pick.

Please let it be Matt Harvey.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can someone explain how this makes sense?
From the Goold article this morning he quoted Lunhow: "Absolutely the 14 best guys for us independent of where we are picking in the draft," Luhnow said of the list he thinks the No. 18 pick will come from today. "And independent of their ability to be signed at what we have as our budget for 18."

Versus the recent profile from Goold: "As their pick approached several of the players the Cardinals had ranked high and one (prep superstar pitcher Rick Porcello) who they judged as unsignable were still available."

by Handsome B Wonderful on Jun 7, 2007 5:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

read closer...
... this morning, Luhnow said "ability to be signed at what we have as our budget for 18".

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if they had kozma higher than porcello
independent of the price... well, that makes no sense to me. To say the least.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mortensen:
"Fastball:    Mortensen throws his fastball at 89-92 mph and is able to maintain the velocity throughout his starts
FB Movement:    There is some sinking action to Mortensen's fastball.
Slider:    He throws his slider in the 81-84 mph range and it has some late tilt.
Changeup:    Mortensen's changeup sits at 81-83 mph and has some arm side face.
Control:    Mortensen needs to make sure he locates his fastball consistently, something he doesn't always do. He's improved as the season has gone on.
Poise:    A senior who is Gonzaga's Saturday starter, Mortensen has good mound presence.
Physical Description:    Mortensen has a tall, lean body and a frame that should be able to handle added strength, making him a rare commodity: a projectable college senior.
Medical Update:    Healthy.
Strengths:    A three-pitch mix with an average fasatball he maintains deep into starts. He also has a good pitcher's body with room for growth.
Weaknesses:    Mortensen lacks deception at times and he doesn't always locate his fastball consistently.
Summary:    While there are often college seniors who make very good pros, it's rare for there to be one like Mortensen, a legitimate "prospect" on the rise in his senior season. He's got three usable pitches and a body frame that appears able to handle added strength, which could make his fastball even better. He should be a very intriguing senior sign this summer."

Borbon went one pick before ours.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 5:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

is it possible with
the recent fall out of reyes that we passed on porcello and took this mortensen guy b/c of their style of pitching (pitch to contact ground ball Duncan type pitching) instead of signability???  I mean there hhas to be another reason to pass up on, as steve phillips would say, a "Frannchise arm"

by Dave0585 on Jun 7, 2007 5:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

what im saying
is that we should want to pony up the money when a talent like this falls to us...and this mortensen kid seems like he is just a younger version of what we alreayd have.  Sinker baller with little deception...i beleive many have said on this site before that when we are slumping it is because the hitters get too comfortable against our pitchers who all have the same delivery/repitoire

by Dave0585 on Jun 7, 2007 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly...
He sounds like a Duncan style sort of pitcher, with the sinker.

Better to draft guys who might actually pitch in the majors some day for the Cardinals, instead of guys who have good stuff, but will languish in the minors, because of a clash in pitching philosophies.

by DiscoJer on Jun 7, 2007 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not possible...
Harvey was still available and his best pitch is the beloved 2 seamer.

Unfortunately, it's all about the $$$

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A college pitcher?
Why do they hate me so much?

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 5:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mortensen???
Wow, just wow.

Lunhow's "golden-god" status is certainly gone now.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not sure I understand
this particular philosophy.  His job involves "player evaluation".  It's not just agreeing with the talking heads.  Why even have a scouting director if he's always going to pick the "available guy ranked highest by Baseball America" etc? Anyone could do that!  

We'll know in 3-4 years whether or not he is a golden-god drafter dude.  There's simply no way to tell yet, based solely off of how well his choices meshed with the prospect lists/one paragraph descriptions we've all been memorizing...

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2007 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sleepy
I understand your point here, that Luhnow should be figuring out who to take independent of the pundits and whatnot, and I agree.  But on Mortenson, nearly every scouting service I've been able to get my hands on has had him available well into the 3rd or even 4th rounds.  I understand you like the player, but I can't imagine all the scouts being that badly wrong, to have to pick a guy two full rounds before the earliest anyone thinks he'll be gone.  There had to have been other players to pick in the supplemental first, and Mortenson easily would have been there in the second, if they really wanted him.  
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nah
I know nothing about any of these players, other than what LB and others have posted here.  I just don't think you can evaluate Luhnow's performance based on what we know right now- by definition, he'll have a different perspective if he's better than they are (or worse).  It's just too early to call him a failure imho.

Then again, I'm the type who likes to root for the underdog; I always cheer for the guys who go all in on partypoker.com and like to see people courageous enough to stand apart from the crowd.  If he picked "by the book" I'd be more disappointed than if he took a risk and failed.

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2007 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Risk
That's the problem.

I'll state it again...I really like Kozma.  He was far and away the best SS prospect in this draft.

Why I am disappointed is that we heard the whole time that they would go for the "homerun"if it were available and they clearly didn't with Kozma or Mortensen.  They didn't spend money in free agency and vowed to spend it in player development...again they didn't.

I think Kozma is going to be an above average SS one day, Mortensen on the other hand might rise fast but his talent level is marginal IMO.

They didn't take a high reward/high risk player.

Oh well, maybe they hit a homerun in the latter rounds...I'll admit that I don't know much about most of these guys past the 2nd or 3rd round.

Diamonds in the rough hopefully.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dan
Love your new signature, buddy.
Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

eh
not a huge fan of this draft so far, seems signability is a huge factor in the cards evaluation of talent

by truemun12 on Jun 7, 2007 5:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yep
It seems like getting the BPA had nothing to do with the Cards drafting process.

Very disappointing, must they be so frugal in every aspect.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

From BA
"He might sneak into the third round"

Which puts his value more appropriately in the 4th-5th rounds, I'd say. This seems like an embarassing pick at first glance. I don't care that the Cardinals think they see more in guys like him, and Kozma, than we do. That's fine, and I trust their opinions far more than I do my own. But if this guy would have been around for a few more rounds, what is the point in taking him now? I just flat out don't understand this philosophy at all.

by jms8897 on Jun 7, 2007 5:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Let's give them a break...
I'm not saying that this draft will be of the same magnitude, but a lot of baseball people thought the A's were absolutely nuts when they changed philosophies 10 years ago.  The Cards have a new system this year...and frankly SOMETHING had to change with the way the drafts had been (especially in terms of pitching.)

Looking at Mortensen's video on MLB.com, he seems to have a nice fluid motion that will not cause injury problems in the future.  Everything I read about him says that he is a four-year college senior with some still untapped potential, which apparently is extremely rare.

stlfan

by stlfan on Jun 7, 2007 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baseball analysts...
have the Cards taking a catcher... who's wrong?

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's back to Mortensen...
they've got it figured out...

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently
Mortensen is the Saturday starter for Gonzaga.  So he's not even the best pitcher on their staff.  Right?  Uggh.

by awpierce on Jun 7, 2007 5:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

not so much
If you look at the statistics for this season at Gonzaga's website...Mortensen was CLEARLY the ace of the staff.

stlfan

by stlfan on Jun 7, 2007 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also...
He is top 15 in the nation in strikeouts and has over 1 per IP.

stlfan

by stlfan on Jun 7, 2007 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yup
i'm starting to come around to this pick. sinking fastball that he can get up to 94, lotta Ks, decent slider and changeup, still has room to fill out, and projects pretty well. it's a little safe, but it looks like a solid pick.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't wait...
I can't wait to see Lunhow's next interview on this site.  I certainly hope Larry takes him to task and we get some straight answers about this.

I would, for once, like to have this front office tell the fans the truth...."It really didn't have much to do with talent.  We HAD to draft someone and these guys were the absolute cheapest players we could find where we picked"

Terrible draft...just terrible.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

not so fast
i haven't seen any of these players play, and never heard of any of them until about a week ago . . . . so no, i won't be taking luhnow to task. because i'm sure he and the scouting staff know a lot more about these players than i do.

i will / can ask him whether the pass on porcello was strictly a dollars issue. i can tell him a lot of fans perceive dollars, rather than talent, to be the cardinals' prime motivation in this draft, and that many in my community were very disappointed by the picks.

but for all i know, these are tremendous selections. just because they go against the conventional wisdom, it doesn't therefore follow that the players are failures. i have no grounds on which to criticize ---- not yet.

let's see the players on the field before we judge them.

by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said LBoros
Also remember, this is not like football where the draft is microanalyzed and has been for years.  I don't think the draft predictors are nearly as accurate, nor should we put so much stock in what they think.  I think the cardinals have spent much more time on the draft than many of the "analysts" as well as most of us casual observers.  Has anyone here been to one of Kozma's games?

The baseball draft requires patience and confidence in the organization leadership.  I am willing to give them that.

by OCCardsFan on Jun 7, 2007 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree with that
i think right now i do perceive it as a signability issue. i also am willing to give many, many, many people, including everyone in the cards front office and most of the VEB community, credit for knowing more about these guys than i do. but it bothers me that the cards' picks seem to have absolutely no relationship to the BPA rankings of other boards.

i'm willing to wait and see how these guys perform, and hear from luhnow about the strategy and reasons for the picks. but if it sounds like it was mostly money/"no Boras guys", or they don't perform, i'm going to be pissed.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if they don't perform
that's when i will feel comfortable passing judgment. i just have no grounds on which to make an independent judgment right now; i can only go on what the draft "experts" say, and --- meaning no disrespect to them --- they are not always right in their judgments.

if the cards' decision-makers came to a different conclusion, well --- their judgment will be put to the test when the players hit the field. the proof will be in the putting.

by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree again
though it's their hitting baseballs, rather than golf balls (proof in the putting??) that will make me happy.

;)

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

another thing
is while many "experts" may consider these guys "sleepers" that could make it through to later, they still might end up being the best players in the end. A lot of amazing players were drafted after the first few rounds.

Maybe our front office saw something in these players, and while they knew that they COULD be sleepers, they wanted to make sure they got them at all costs. Sure this means losing a couple high ceiling guys early on, but it also gets rid of the risk of losing the guys we actually wanted by trying to wait a few rounds before grabbing them.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Jun 7, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think that the Boras article
Had anything to do with the "signability" portion of the STOUT machine?
Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.

by Solanus on Jun 7, 2007 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Taking him to task...
By "taking him to task" I meant asking him if these picks were made purely because of money.  It's obvious to me, and others, that they were.  I really didn't mean that you should get in a shouting match...so my choice of words was probably not the best.

Actually, I like Kozma as a player.  Although, I believe he would have been there at 36 anyway.  Not taking the best pitcher in the draft(in my mind and many others) when he is available at 18 is just inexcusable.  There is no way to explain that except $$$.

Mortensen's CEILING is Brad Thompson...that doesn't excite me much.  Harvey was available here as well.  Again, all about the benjies(sorry about the P Diddy, or whatever he calls himself these days, reference)

The only good news all day is that Borbon was picked before Lunhow could swoop him up.

I disagree, you do have ground to criticize...you really do.  Making draft picks should not be about money and they CLEARLY were.

There is absolutely NO WAY that Kozma was rated higher than Porcello...it's not possible.  If it is, our entire scouting department should be fired.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i would be comfortable asking him
how the cardinals determine whether a guy is "signable" or not. and i would be comfortable telling him the failure to pony up $$$ for big-league free-agents would be easier to swallow if the team would pony up $$$$ for player development --- which is their stated focus.

but, you know --- a number of teams from bigger markets passed on porcello; they obviously didn't want to pay the price tag, either. even teams that had multiple picks, and maybe could have afforded to "waste" one on a risky boras client, passed. given that fact, i still have to tread lightly in accusing the team of being cheap.

even if luhnow admits that it was a $$$$ issue --- until kozma proves to be a washout, i have a hard time calling "bullshit" on them.

by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NOW i disagree
drafts are always about speculation, educated guesses, and luck. sam bowie/michael jordan. but if you're the blazers, you can bemoan that pick, but you can't really be pissed - they just made the wrong call. lots of people thought sam bowie was going to be better than jordan back then. i'm not sure anyone thinks kozma is going to be better than porcello.

that's what i'm saying. is it possible kozma will be better? sure. he could be better than people think, or porcello could be mark prior (or rick ankiel, or chris narveson...), or whatever. but the overwhelming consensus is that the odds are that it will be the opposite, and in the draft, all you can do is play the odds.

if i hear that luhnow, dewitt & co really had kozma ahead of porcello on their board, based on talent/need alone, fine - then i'll be willing to wait and see. but if it was based on money, then i'm not willing to wait - i'm pissed NOW. because if we're not willing to be angry about good picks that turned out badly (because of risks that didn't pan out, injuries, etc.), then we should be willing to forgive bad picks that turn out all right.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ahem
that last line should be "then we SHOULDN'T". sort of loses the force of rhetoric when you say the opposite of what you mean.
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good point
Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Kozma has to wash out..
for it to be a bad pick.

What would you rather have...a slight above average SS or a front of the rotation starter?  You don't even have to answer.

Again, I like Kozma as a player...but the pick is still inexcusable.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but many other organizations
agreed with the cardinals. porcello fell all the way to 27 . . . . . by the time it got to pick #12 or so, he was clearly the best pick left on the board --- but he lasted another 15 picks. are all those organizations cheap, too ---- or just the cardinals?

by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes
Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes, many of them ARE cheap.
or, at least, not in as good a financial position as the cards should be, with their restraint in the FA market combined with new stadium/WS revenues. the cards should be more willing to spend in this draft than all but a handful of other teams. so for me, the fact that other teams passed on porcello isn't really relevant to the argument - the cards should have been more willing than those teams to step up with their checkbook.
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not so much cheap...
But players who might actually make it to the majors as Cardinals.

This guy sounds like Duncan will love him. His best pitch is the sinker. Indeed, he sounds a lot like Carpenter.

Or do you want to do through more and more Anthony Reyes soap operas, year after year?

by DiscoJer on Jun 7, 2007 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

STOUT
I think the Cardinals' draft machine may be weighting signability a little too heavily.
Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.

by Solanus on Jun 7, 2007 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not Carpenter...
Brad Thompson.

Anyway, Duncan is likely to be long gone by the time this kid is ready.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Justin Jackson goes 45...
... and Harvey is still out there.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 5:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

not to go off track
but schilling has a perfect game going into the 9th

by jojo5492 on Jun 7, 2007 5:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

no
it's a no-hitter, not a perfect game. (julio lugo had a throwing error)

by Molina4MVP on Jun 7, 2007 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

my bad
just looked at his line and saw no bb or h

by jojo5492 on Jun 7, 2007 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Schilling
sorry it's not draft related, but Schilling still has a nono through 8.

by Molina4MVP on Jun 7, 2007 5:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

and
you can watch it for free now.  go to mlb.com, it's the first story and they have a free mlb.tv link.

by Molina4MVP on Jun 7, 2007 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WOW
schilling loses no-hitter on last batter
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 5:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

wooo hoooo...
shannon stewart is my new favorite player

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Why?
Why shouldn't Curt Schilling get a no-hitter when he's 1 out away?
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

because
  1. bloody sock
  2. outspoken jock
  3. apparently a
jerk.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care if you are Carlos Zambrano
if you are 40 years old, in the twilight of your career and you've got a chance at doing something special, it really isn't fun to watch you lose that chance when you are 98% there.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so are you
pro or anti-Barry?

(Just asking, I don't really care what he does.)

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i hope
his arms fall off.
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm anti-Barry
but if he gets 1 HR away from tying the record, I'm not going to wish upon him striking out the rest of his life.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i will wish
for his arms to fall off.
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Luhnow's draft
It certainly is a "head scratcher."  Baseball America had Mortensen projected at 119, but the Cardinals take him at 36.   You don't suppose this pick has anything to do with the fact that he's a senior with little or no signing leverage? Kozma was projected 39th and taken at 18.  I can't wait for the second rounder.  At this rate we'll grab a promising sixth rounder in that slot.  It seems that cheapness is no longer limited to the major-league roster.

by MikeG on Jun 7, 2007 5:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Perfect Quote
VEB: I've never heard of half of these guys and the ones I do know are way past their prime.

VEB2: Most of these guys never had a prime.
VEB3: This guy here is dead.

DeWitt: Cross him off then

by wrv18 on Jun 7, 2007 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is
literally how I feel about that last pick.

Like we are the board members in with Rachel Phelps ...aka...Bill DeWitt.

by wrv18 on Jun 7, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

harvey STILL out there?
what's the deal?
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 5:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Just think...
We could have gotten Rick Porcello AND Matt Harvey!!!

Can you imagine how different the tone of this thread would be had that happened?

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they never considered Porcello
sorry, but 10 million and a guaranteed roster spot by age 21 is very high price to pay. which is why he went 27... almost every team in MLB agreed with the Cards' decision.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's your point???
I agree that they never considered him...that is PRECISELY the problem.

Funny how the team that didn't disagree with them has one of the best, if not the best, young rotation in baseball and more on the way.

The Tigers will probably win 675 games over the next 7 years.

Oh well, at least we saved a little cash!!!

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

disagree...
... a 10 million dollar investment with no margin for error and no track record is a difficult deal to make.

 

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are you disagreeing with?
I never said it wasn't a difficult deal to make.  Gotta take a risk every now and then, scraping the bargain bin and scouring the Sunday paper for DFAs isn't going to work for ever.

I'm not upset they didn't give Carlos Lee 100M dollars...quite the contrary.  Porcello was the gamble to make, and if it worked out...10M is peanuts.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

10M to a guy who hasn't faced a single MLB hitter
doesn't seem like a 'gamble to make' to me.  Especially when there is already bitterness between the client's agent and the front office.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It does to me.
I'll take the superior talent EVERY TIME and take my chances.
Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it didn't work out
You're right back where you started with most prospects: wasting money. I can't defend either pick because I know literally nothing about them, but let's at least give them some short-season experience before we decide they're the worst players we've ever picked up.
The Falcoholic
The SBNation's Atlanta Falcons Blog

by Dave the Falconer on Jun 7, 2007 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've said...
I like Kozma 5 different times in this thread.
Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just summing up the tone of the thread
And I'll admit I'm actually pretty unhappy with these picks, too. I just want everyone to give them a chance to perform first.
The Falcoholic
The SBNation's Atlanta Falcons Blog

by Dave the Falconer on Jun 7, 2007 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough
Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would be a wasted pick...
Harvey wants what no team is willing to pay. No one believes he's going to be major league ready in a couple of years.

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Weird coincidence
Kozma was born 4/11/88.  Mortensen was born 4/10/85.

Apparently, being an Aries is a critical skillset for the Cards this draft.

by punditmoi on Jun 7, 2007 6:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Draft me
I was born April 7, I'm a crafty college pitcher with a lot of polish, and I tend to locate my mid-50s fastball down in the zone.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll alert...
Dave Duncan.
Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i feel like
luhnow was born on 4/20
I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This Draft
has the makings of a painful, painful episode.  I certainly hope not, but it seems the Cards have already reached badly on their first two picks, and that money has played a much larger part here than it ever should with this organisation.  I have no idea where the revenue streams are going, but it certainly has me curious.  

I gave the team a pass on not spending in the offseason.  Not enough on the market, out of control contracts, just won a championship, etc.  Today, however, I must admit to being a little pissed off.  (and maybe a little more than a little)  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 6:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Pissed off...
Count me in.

THERE IS NO LEGITIMATE EXCUSE FOR NOT DRAFTING PORCELLO...there just isn't one.  It is painfully obvious that $$$ was the #1 factor in this draft, anyone claiming otherwise isn't paying attention.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't he a Boras client?
Perhaps Boras calling Jocketty out for not having 'played the game' will cause the Cards to stay away from Boras clients for awhile.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who knows...
All I know is that talent was way too low on the priority list.  They've reached (badly) with both picks so far.

Let's just hope they get lucky with a late round pick...it could happen.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently the front office
pitches to contact too.

by BirdBrained on Jun 7, 2007 6:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

lol
Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Harvey @ 71?
might be possible.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 6:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

His leverage...
doesn't change any as a low round pick. If the Cards thought he was worth what he wanted, they would've taken him already, I would think...

by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what if this draft is about longevity
i am as upset as everyone else.  i wanted the front office to finally spend some money on a cause that is worth it like porcello (not soriano or lee in the offseason).  
But what if they think they have 2 starters (in their first 2 picks)  for 10 years in the majors as opposed to only having porcello for say 5 years in the majors b/c if he is that dominant, we probably couldnt outbid the bigger market teams.  When he receaches free agency he will be about what, 27, which could still be in his prime and command top dollar and who knows how long he would be pitching for our big league team????

not defending the picks, just looking at it from a different perspective

by Dave0585 on Jun 7, 2007 6:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Much rather have...
Porcello for 5 years than Mortensen for 20.

Talent level isn't remotely close.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and you know that how?
FWIW the guy you are dissing struck out 16 batters in one game, k/9 > 10, and has a 94 mph sinker (that is projected to improve).  Give him a plus MLB infield and he might be the next Santana- swings and misses AND ground ball outs.

Probably not, but it's way too soon to say he's awful.  We know next to nothing about him.  He probably isn't going to amount to anything, but Porcello probably won't either, no matter what the buzz says.  The difference is that one would have cost us more than we're paying Chris Carpenter...

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2007 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do I know that?
Gee...let's see.

Porcello has 4 plus offerings...Mortensen has one.  Porcello was rated by many as the best pitcher in the draft...Mortensen was rated as the #116 overall prospect by BA.

It's pretty obvious that Porcello's talent level is worlds above Mortensens...I don't even see how that can be argued but whatever.

BTW, all the scouting reports on Mortensen that I've seen place him in the 89-92 range translated means he has problems hitting 90.  Porcello scouting reports have a HIGH SCHOOLER touching 97 translated means 94-95.

"The difference is that one would have cost us more than we're paying Chris Carpenter..."

Nope.  The difference is that one's ceiling is top of the rotation starter and the other's is Brad Thompson.

BTW five years of Porcello probably cost us in the 20-25M dollar range counting his bonus.

Five years of Carpenter cost us upwards of 60.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you're saying
You know that Porcello is better because BA said so. Maybe Luhnow disagrees?  Is that so hard to fathom?   I guaruntee he's watched both guys pitch; I'm guessing that you haven't.  I sure haven't.  You and I simply don't have enough independent information to justify the amount of noise you are making about this.

And, by the way, we're paying CC $8.25M this season.  It's going to cost at least that to have the opportunity to watch Porcello pitch against A ball players.

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2007 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope, not what I'm saying.
EVERY scouting agency in the country say it.  I can't believe that anyone would even make this argument...plain silly.

Porcello has worlds more talent than Mortensen...period, end of story, not debateable.

And, by the way, it doesn't matter what Carp is making this season.

The 10M that you claim is more of an investment than we have in Carpenter is buying us 5 years under club control of Porcello.  Not that difficult to understand.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK
We can revisit this argument in 4-5 years when we actually know how well these guys performed against real hitters.  
Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2007 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Man your authoritative tone is pretty annoying
Have you seen Porcello pitch? How about Mortensen?  I sure haven't, but I feel pretty certain that Luhnow has.  Predicting major league talent is not a black and white science.  There are lots of "can't miss" prospects who actually do miss.  

by OCCardsFan on Jun 7, 2007 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK
Porcello...No
Mortensen...Yes, and the Brad Thompson comparison is spot on.

"missing' really has nothing to do with it.

My problem is not taking a chance on a guy who was rated by many as the best pitcher in the draft solely based on money.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

eh
BTW...it's kind of hard to not be authorative when someone makes such an off base assertion.
Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

here's the point
if luhnow really DOES have a different opinion as to which player is BETTER, fine. then you're right - the appropriate thing to do is wait and see.

the reason bobby (and i) are upset is because we don't believe this is about which player is better. we think luhnow, just based on talent, would have taken porcello - because that's basically the universal consensus. i haven't seen a single expert anywhere that had porcello rated lower. again, that doesn't mean luhnow didn't - but my guess is luhnow's board on this particular point was in line with the others'.

the reason we're upset is because we suspect that this wasn't a decision based on talent or potential. it was a decision based on money. that's why we're upset. and if we're right, then yeah, the cardinals could still get lucky - but if we're not going to forgive the scouts for being unlucky with a good pick, we shouldn't forgive them for being lucky on a bad pick. and if they passed on porcello for financial reasons, then not picking porcello was a bad pick.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure where to start
First of all, this is not the NFL draft where for the most part, the picks are pretty easy. However I think we can all remember Ryan Leaf. (That pick didn't turn out so well.) Look at some "stud" pitchers that were drafted high. Two come to mind. Rick Ankiel and Mark Prior. They didn't turn into the Sandy Koufaxes and Gibby's now did they? So essentially saying that this draft is crap is a bit extreme. Albert Pujols wasn't drafted in the first round. We took Paul Coleman when Frank Thomas was sitting right there. Heard of that guy? Anyone? Coleman "rated" higher than Thomas though. I think the Kozma pick was good. We need a shortstop in the future, he has mental make-up, and who knows, time will tell if he really has it in him to make it.
Here I Am, Rock You Like a Hurricane

by OKCardsfan on Jun 7, 2007 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ankiel and Prior don't really support your
argument.  They both made it to the big leagues relatively quickly and had loads of talent.  They fell by the wayside because of very different reasons.  Prior's arm was practically ripped off his body by the cubs and Ankiel. . .well I still don't know why he quit pitching but it wasn't because of talent.  They were both good draft choices.

by azruavatar on Jun 7, 2007 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They support the argument
that you can draft high-dollar, big names and still get nothing out of them long term. So to say our first pick was crap...only time will tell.
Here I Am, Rock You Like a Hurricane

by OKCardsfan on Jun 7, 2007 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was a poor pick
Saying that players get hurt doesn't refute that the Cardinals should be picking the best player available.  Kozma could get hurt just like Porcello could.

Kozma isn't a bad player.  I don't dislike having him in our system.  I do dislike that we used pick #18 on him.

by azruavatar on Jun 8, 2007 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would you
have pulled the 10 million dollar trigger though? It's like putting it on a roulette wheel. That's what I have trouble with.
Here I Am, Rock You Like a Hurricane

by OKCardsfan on Jun 8, 2007 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting
but

the problem with that line of reasoning is that you are then trying to develop just good enough players that they don't ever leave.  You're actually putting together a team that's so mediocre that no other team will want to take what you have.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not so much build talent that is just mediocre
but talent that is good (even excellent) through players that will re-sign.  Signing a boras agent with so much hype (i mean when he reaches free agency) isnt gonna happen.  On the other hand, for instance, if rasmus is a super star, i think he is very resignable b/c of his character and relationship with the club.  Porcello, not so much.  Lets say these 2 picks are good-very good players.  Even if it costs us a lot of money, we at least have a very good chance at signing them, and if not, get good draft picks in compensation.  

by Dave0585 on Jun 7, 2007 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You get...
the same compensation for Porcello.
Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

next 4
devil rays, royals, nats, pirates...

can't see any of them ponying up for harvey.

next even possible spot seems to be braves at 69.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Lets all just take time to breathe....
I was as unhappy as everyone else about not taking Porcello, but lets not forget people, this is the MLB Draft, not the NBA or NFL draft. I'm sure when we drafted Albert Pujols in whatever round of the draft we picked him, no one thought "Man, this guy is going to be one of the best hitters the game has ever seen", and i'm sure there were numerous can't miss pitchers/prospects that got picked, that did miss. The Cardinals have scouts for a reason, and even though i'm mad at him, Jeff Luhnow is a solid baseball mind, i'm sure they have damn good reasoning behind drafting these guys and it's not just about the money.

Besides, by the time most of the players from this draft make the major leagues, a lot will of happened. Be it trades/free agent signings/etc...., as most of these kids are 2-4 years away.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 6:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well said
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." ~Rogers Hornsby

by spiderman15 on Jun 7, 2007 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lineups for tonight
Per Bernie M:

Eck
Dunc
AP
Edm
Rolen
Juan E
Kennedy
Bennett
A.Wain

Had this little interesting bit:

TLR says there is no starting pitching out there, so they will have to win with what they have...and they will.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 6:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tomo freakin Ohka...
come on Walt, he's better than Wellemeyer.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

None of our best (noninjured) options on the bench
In other words, our top player at each position playing tonight (with the exception of Yadi, who's on the DL).  Like it :)
"Tyler's gonna bust a nut on some babies tonight!" - Tyler Johnson (as told by Alex Fritz)

by Mr Redbird on Jun 7, 2007 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Washington takes another Zimmerman
I wonder if he's related to Ryan :P
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 6:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Card take David Kopp
another reach?

Fastball:    Kopp throws his fastball in the 89-93 mph range and can sit comfortably at 92 mph.
Slider:    Kopp's slider is average right now, but projects to be an above-average pitch.
Changeup:    Like the slide, the changeup is average now with the chance to be better in the future.
Control:    His command, especially of his fastball is below-average.
Poise:    He's got average makeup. He pitches backwards at times -- which isn't his fault -- but he's improved with that over time.
Physical Description:    Kopp has a Steve Trachsel body type with some room to grow.
Medical Update:    Healthy.
Strengths:    The chance to throw three average to above-average pitches.
Weaknesses:    His command is below-average.
Summary:    Kopp doesn't get much attention because of teammate Daniel Moskos, but he does have the possibility of three very good Major League offerings. His command and delivery have been a mess in the past, but he's improved on the delivery and has shown the ability to get better over time. Moskos clearly will be the first Clemson pitcher selected, but teams would do well not to look past the second.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 6:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

"He pitches backwards at times"
What exactly does that mean?
"Tyler's gonna bust a nut on some babies tonight!" - Tyler Johnson (as told by Alex Fritz)

by Mr Redbird on Jun 7, 2007 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Got it
That's kinda what I thought.  Is that such a bad thing?
"Tyler's gonna bust a nut on some babies tonight!" - Tyler Johnson (as told by Alex Fritz)

by Mr Redbird on Jun 7, 2007 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

mariners just took denny almonte
cf out of high school.

that name made me do a double take.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Danny Almonte!
got taken 75th. he currently plays for my local Southern Illinois Miners in the Frontier League. guess he's gone now.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 6:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ahem...
... nope. DEnny Almonte. forgive me.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kopp is a good pick
Pujols < .300 (it worked for .200)

by joker24 on Jun 7, 2007 6:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I would have liked Rike..
Anyone see his swing on the link from future redbirds.  It looked nice. But, what do I know?  They probably could have afforded him...that I do know.

Here is a quick prayer that Jeff Luhnow know something that all of us do not.  

by wrv18 on Jun 7, 2007 6:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Cards take Jesse Todd
Fastball:    Todd has a strong average fastball that he throws anywhere from 89 to 94 mph.
Changeup:    Todd's changeup is a below-average offering.
Slider:    He throws an average slider.
Control:    Todd has above-average command, especially of his fastball and changeup.
Poise:    He has excellent makeup.
Physical Description:    Todd is a bit undersized and draws comparisons in body type to Fernando Rodney.
Medical Update:    Healthy.
Strengths:    Above-average command and good fastball.
Weaknesses:    Secondary offerings are not as consistent as the fastball.
Summary:    While Arkansas Friday starter Nick Schmidt gets more of the attention, Todd has done a nice job, first as a reliever and now as the Saturday starter. With a good fastball, an average slider and excellent command, he might best be suited to a bullpen role at the next level. If he can bring the changeup up to snuff, he could get a look as a starter.

by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 6:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ho hum
Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

last two picks
were #2's on their college staffs.

i guess i can go back to work now.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

High ceiling?
Come on Lunhow, take at least one risk.

We've got Kozma, who I like but doesn't project to have a high ceiling, and three "projectible college starters"...which is quickly becoming my least favorite phrase btw.

ho hum, most boring draft I've ever followed.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lot of anger today
if i knew anything about high school or college players, i might be pissed off too. but i dont. this isn't the nfl or nba draft. so high priced guys aren't always the best picks. all i know is what ive read here, and from what i can tell, the Cards stayed away from a scott boris guy. went cheep and picked a taller, heavier ECK. and a soft tossing pitch to contact guy with their next pick. and some are ready to fire jeff luhnow for botching this draft.

surprise surprise. the Cards went cheep.

can't really judge this draft for a couple years. but from what i've read here. i'm not impressed.

The 2007 St.Louis Cardinals. Not Your Father's 04-05 Cardinals. And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 7, 2007 6:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

OH..STOUT
Apparently, the other teams are better at developing software than we are...

Seriously...why spend money on a bunch of stat guys and some dumb analytical tool when the draft is essentially doing the same thing that we did in 2004...drafting low risk college righty's.  Hey...that theory worked out great.

by wrv18 on Jun 7, 2007 6:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This is almost getting comical...
I don't know a thing about this guy, but if you go to the MLB Draft Tracker and check out his video he lets two consecutive grounders go right by him while playing fungoe!!!

I'm glad the game is coming on soon.

Looks like a small, speedy type.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Angels took Harvey
They'll sign him.

They're known for tough signs like Adenhart, Weaver, Trumbo..

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 7:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm disappointed..
We didn't take Josh Horton from UNC.  

As a prospect analyzer.. this draft is making my eyes bleed.  We've passed up so many good prospects.

Burgess, Roemer, Mangini, Cozart, Hunter Morris,

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 7:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Word to describe this draft:
Underwhelming

Also, another bone I have to pick.  I realize he's our ace, and he's proven, but what is with the brass not wanting to ever pay another pitcher more than what Carp is getting paid?  I understand paying an 18-year-old kid that much is a little much, but it seems like that train of thought holds us back from ever signing any top-of-the-rotation guys, whether they be better than Carp or not.

"Tyler's gonna bust a nut on some babies tonight!" - Tyler Johnson (as told by Alex Fritz)

by Mr Redbird on Jun 7, 2007 7:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Kyle Russell..
Is a solid pick.  He was supposed to be a late first round - comp. pick.

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 7:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Problem is signing him
He's a 1st round talent who is a draft eligible sophomore...meaning he'll want some cash.  I for one hope we sign the kind of wiry power this guy has, but who knows what we'll do.  
Pujols < .300 (it worked for .200)

by joker24 on Jun 7, 2007 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Russell
is my favorite pick from this draft, which means he probably won't be signed. He may strike out a ton--we heard the same thing about Rasmus, who worked it out after his rookie league season--but at least he has a tool.

Say what you will about the myth of the five tool player, but I'd rather have one of them than a zero tool college pitcher with an 89 mph fastball and "pitchability"

by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

danup...
pitchability or do you mean signability...j/k..sort of

by wrv18 on Jun 7, 2007 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

insert
sarcasm sign.

by wrv18 on Jun 7, 2007 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

honestly
I think that to most teams they're two different words for the same thing.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 8, 2007 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Finally...
a toolsy player.

Above average athleticism, speed, and "light tower power" as they say.

By far my fav pick so far.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

kudos to OKCardsfan
I thought the Kozma name sounded familiar, but couldn't place it- just realized where I'd heard it.  On this site, of course, and it was OKCardsFan's post in the "cardinals potential draft selections" diary entry.  AFAIK his post was the closest anyone came to guessing that we'd actually pick him.  Of course he didn't actually call "pick #18", but close enough.

I have to admit that after seeing Kozma's high school stats in the link he gave I was excited (1.7+ OPS in high school- .522 BA- wonder what his babip was?) but didn't think there was any chance we'd pick him up.  So anyway, I'm happier about it now than I was earlier.  Good call, OKCF.

Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2007 10:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's easy to dismiss
somebody just cause you haven't heard of them. But Owasso High School is 6A. (Huge) They won the State Championship on his homerun. Lot of good talet comes out of the area. Brad Penny was from Broken Arrow. (Down the streetish) I don't think it was a bad pick, I was hoping more for the sandwich round, but I don't think the pick deserves a SOB or a FU Lunhow comment.
Here I Am, Rock You Like a Hurricane

by OKCardsfan on Jun 7, 2007 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Russell
BA said Russell struck out out 50% of the time in the Cape Cod league last summer and pulled an 0-fer at the 2004 Area Code games coming out of high school. With luck he can become the next Rob Deer???

by nmstar on Jun 7, 2007 10:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

At least...
he has some above average tools.

He definitely has some work to do, but I believe his upside far exceeds anyone we have drafted so far...so they probably won't sign him.

Pitch to swing and misses...not contact. I've never heard of a "seeing eye K"

by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretend
Let's just pretend that Kyle Russell was our initial pick in the first round and Pete Kozma was our steal in the compensation round = )

= ) = )

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 10:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I choose to believe it's
all in the names.  I neither know nor care a fig about any ballplayer who's not already at AA, but I'm excited because we drafted a Pete and a Clay.  Those are old-timey, dirty-uniform, Gas-House Gang, hardscrabbly names, taking us back to a time when ballplayers were men, uniforms were scratchy, there were more fedoras than women in the ballpark for a weekday game, a bucket o' suds cost a nickel and you could get one until the last pitch was thrown.  Glory days are comin', boys, I'm tellin' ya.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 7, 2007 11:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm With You
Maybe you're right, and we'll see some beautiful, hard nosed, old style baseball in the coming years.  

Also, I love fedoras, and actually own many, many hats, but can we maybe just even out the number of fedoras and women?  I mean, you know, hats are cool and all, but... more hats than girls is a little worrisome to me.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Jun 8, 2007 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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