2007 amateur draft live thread
today's regular post, a look at the cardinal offense over the last 30 days, is directly below; please head there for all non-draft-related discussion.
as for this thread, i encourage you to fill the comments section with opinions, reactions, and any information you can dig up about the cardinals' draftees --- but please remember do not post video at this site, less'n you want to risk crashing the server. if you find any pertinent video on the web, just put up a link. thanks for understanding.
a couple of add'l pre-draft links of interest, both from derrick goold: in the post-dispatch he writes about STOUT, the cards' draft-analysis tool, and at Bird Land he takes a stab at naming the 14 players on luhnow's short list of desired 1st rounders.
scroll to the bottom of this post for links to other active draft sites; game thread tonight at ~6 pm central.
CARDINALS 2007 DRAFT PICKS, day one
#18, 1st round: PETER KOZMA, ss, Owasso hs. snippets from the mlb.com scouting report: "He plays the game the right way and is very fundamentally sound." . . . "He makes all the routine plays" . . . "a hard-working kid with some tools. His fundamentals and makeup are off the charts." not very sexy pick. . . . . here's what they said at Baseball Prospectus: "Kozma has a little less risk than your average prep shortstop. What comes with that, however, is less of an upside than other prep shortstops in the draft like Justin Jackson, Will Middlebrooks, and to me, Drew Cumberland." more info sources:
- here is derrick goold's blog entry on kozma. teaser: With a couple of the players they had their eyes on taken in the two immediate picks before theirs at No. 18, the Cardinals went with a guy they know, they know personally and they believed was not going to last much longer. . . . The Cardinals were ready to take pitcher Blake Beavan, a righthander from Irving, Texas., but the Rangers took him with the 17th selection. 'Picked our pocket,' one Cardinal scout said."
- this is kozma's high school baseball program web site
- good info from baseball america --- but they had kozma going in the supplemental round. . . .
- a profile from Rise Magazine
- story from the Tulsa World
- jonathan mayo had kozma going at #21 to the blue jays in his final mock draft. blurb: "The thinking all along was that tHe Jays would take one college player and one high schooler with their two first rounders. It was just a matter of which two. It's still possible they could move earlier with the high school pick to get a Matt Dominguez-type first, but if it plays out like this, Kozma is the kind of high schooler the Jays would take a long look at. While he's not toolsy in terms of the wow factor, he does just about everything pretty well and unlike many high school middle infielders, should be able to stay at short long-term. He handles the bat well and has some pop at the plate to boot. His best tool might be his makeup, which might put him over the top into the first round."
- kudos to the mock drafters at Minor League Ball: they correctly called the Kozma pick, albeit at #36 . . . . well done, fewgoodcards.
- from SB Nation brother site Lone Star Ball: "Kozma is just a baseball player and does everything pretty well. He's performed well as a right handed hitter and looks like he can stick at SS. He doesn't have huge upside offensively, but seems like one of those guys who has a good shot at making the majors in some capacity, especially for a high school player. BA recently projected him at 21, presumably just because he's a SS and people need that, and I'd be a little disappointed if Texas took him with either of their top two picks . . . . ."
- more links at whiteyball.
- finally, from the Wichita State web site: "Last spring for Owasso High School, Kozma hit .553 with 53 runs, 19 doubles, three triples, 11 home runs, 11 stolen bases and 54 RBI. He was named a high school All-American in 2006 and played in the World Wood Bat Association fall championship in October. Baseball America listed him as the best defensive player at the championship and as the 12th best senior in attendance. He also played in the Area Code Games in Long Beach, Calif., this past summer and Baseball America listed him as the sixth best prospect. Baseball America also listed him as the 11th-best prospect in the 2007 high school class. Other honors include two-time all-conference, all-Metro in 2006 and conference Player of the Year in 2006."
#36, 1st round supp: CLAY MORTENSEN, rhp, Gonzaga. scouting report says he throws fastball 89-92, slider 81-84, change in the low 80s. Summary: "While there are often college seniors who make very good pros, it's rare for there to be one like Mortensen, a legitimate "prospect" on the rise in his senior season. He's got three usable pitches and a body frame that appears able to handle added strength, which could make his fastball even better. He should be a very intriguing senior sign this summer." more info:
- his player bio at Gonzaga's home page and a piece about his being named a third-team all-american
- an article on Mortensen's being named a Roger Clemens Award nominee
- from Baseball America: "Looking for a fast riser? How about Gonzaga¡¯s Clayton Mortensen, who wasn¡¯t on the radar entering the year. Mortensen, who has had a 16-strikeout game this spring, has allowed only one homer all spring in 82 innings, has racked up 84 strikeouts and has pushed his Bureau ranking up from slightly below average to above average. With a sinker that has sat in the 90-94 mph range, Mortensen¨Cthe rare college senior with some projection in his 6-foot-4, 190-pound frame¨Ccould push himself into the first three rounds."
- here's a scouting report from MVN. they like mortensen a lot . . . but these guys projected him as a 5th-rounder. quoting: "At 6¡ä4¡å, 190 pounds and sporting three good pitches (fastball, slider, change), Mortensen is more than just an ¡®easy sign college senior¡¯. Frankly, the combination of his stuff, his potential and the fact that he is going to be a cheap signee may well mean Clayton is gone by here."
- btw, mortensen went in the 4th round in sickels' mock draft.
#71, 2d round (from Brewers, compensation for Suppan): DAVID KOPP, rhp, clemson. mlb scouting report says he has below-average command and messy mechanics, throws a decent fastball and a slider that projects to be above-average. add'l links:
- his clemson tigers bio page
- keith law of espn had kopp rated as the 65th-best player in the draft. scout.com rated him at #66. baseball america had him rated at #81. in sickels' mock draft, kopp went in the 3d round at #99.
#82, 2d round: JESS TODD, rhp, arkansas. strengths: above-average command and excellent makeup. on may 23 he faced the #9 team in the nation, south carolina, and struck out 17 batters, including the first 9 men he faced.
- after the 17-strikeout game, Baseball America was duly impressed.
- overall, BA had todd rated #110 in this draft. in sickels' mock draft, he went at #108.
- according to this message board, todd came on strong late in the year --- registered double-digit strikeout totals in each of his last 4 starts, fanned 64 men in his last 49 innings on the year.
#112, 3d round: DANIEL DESCALSO, 3b, uc-davis.
#142, 4th round: KYLE RUSSELL, of, u of texas. had 1st-round or supplemental round talent --- big power, strikes out too much, and won't be an easy sign.
#172, 5th round: THOMAS EAGER, rhp, cal poly SLO. i hate the way this guy wears his hat.
for more draft discussion:
- Future Redbirds is live-blogging.
- derrick goold is live-blogging at Bird Land.
- live blogging in progress at whiteball.
- SB Nation brother site Minor League Ball is all over the draft.
- kevin goldstein and bryan smith, are live-blogging at Baseball Prospectus.
- jonathan mayo is on duty at his mlb.com draft blog.
- Baseball Analysts is live-blogging the first round and the supplemental.
- i wouldn't be surprised to find danup posting at Get Up Baby during the draft today.
- the primates are talking draft at Baseball Think Factory.
- if you're a subscriber to Baseball America, they've got perhaps the best depth and breadth of information of all. i'm not a subscriber; anybody who is, feel free to share any useful tidbits (with respect for copyright rules) that you glean there.
0 recs |
387 comments
Comments
I posted this on the last thread, but once again..
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Stay on target
by Solanus on Jun 7, 2007 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad.
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right -- thanks guys
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon Nick Schmidt!
by craig3410 on Jun 7, 2007 2:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
First Round
If Wieters doesn't get there, which I find a little doubtful, my next two guys I would like to see would be Madison Baumgarner, a high school LHP, and Joe Savery, LHP out of Rice. Savery was thought to be a top 5 pick coming in to the year, but he's had a some injury issues this year and his stock has fallen.
I must say, I'm way more excited about watching this thing on TV than I should be, considering that only like 4 percent of these guys will ever even get a look.
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Beau Mills
by JBagKY on Jun 7, 2007 2:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mills
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
price gone
by cardsphan04 on Jun 7, 2007 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I mean seriously...
by cardsphan04 on Jun 7, 2007 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who was the pitcher
by paCardsFan on Jun 7, 2007 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Price #1
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Moustakas at #2?
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what josh vitters IQ is?
by cardsphan04 on Jun 7, 2007 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's Mean
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As i watch this on espn...
Albert Pujols drafted in the 13th round in 1999
Got to love AP
by cardsphan04 on Jun 7, 2007 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wieters gone...
by cardsphan04 on Jun 7, 2007 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Alright
Ross Detwiler (pipe dream, I know) I'm shocked he wasn't on Goold's top 14.
Porcello RHP
Tim Alderson LHP
Jarrod Parker RHP
Ahrens High School 3B
Baumgarner LHP
Joe Savery LHP
I don't know why, but Andrew Brackman scares the hell out of me. His delivery just makes me nervous.
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shit
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baumgarner or Ahrens
The SBNation's Atlanta Falcons Blog
by Dave the Falconer on Jun 7, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baumgarner
I just like Alderson because he had a 111/4 K/BB rate in 65 innings.
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Missouri draft picks
by whiteyball on Jun 7, 2007 2:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
when the cards get onto the clock
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 2:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LaPorta to Milwaukee
I am kind of glad to see him off the board, though. An awful lot of the pundits had him going to the Cards, and I just don't think that would have been a good idea.
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I guess they figure
by tdawg on Jun 7, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My son was high on this pick......
by jillsinmo on Jun 8, 2007 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with Dan
But he makes sense for the Rockies -- awfully high though.
by azruavatar on Jun 7, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weathers???
Board's looking pretty decent for #18.
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
unless they go with ahrens
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There's a very good chance
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damnit
Kid's gonna be dynamite, I think.
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This has been strange
by JBagKY on Jun 7, 2007 3:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea
Hope the geeks that be in the Card's front office do.
by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey Bob
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bumgartner
Tell you what, the Giants could have the most terrifying rotation in baseball in a couple of years. Cain, Lincecum, if Bumgartner works out... good god.
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Still Around
Tim Alderson RHP
Kevin Ahrens 3B
Joe Savery LHP
Andrew Brackman RHP
Matt Dominguez 3B
Still don't like Brackman. Feels too much like Chris Lambert and Philip Pope to me. College pitcher, but still 'raw'. I just don't know.
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
rumor has it he may need TJ surgery
by azruavatar on Jun 7, 2007 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahrens
by Stan and Slaughter on Jun 7, 2007 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ahrens to Short
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Well
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Know...
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gimme me some sugar, baby!
by Solanus on Jun 7, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, right guy
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruce Campbell....
by tnek5 on Jun 7, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts too
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't remember
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
QUICKIE POLL
a. who should the cardinals pick
b. who will the cardinals pick
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i think they should take porcello
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
crossing my fingers
by truemun12 on Jun 7, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
arkansas native....
oh yeah....he's a LEFTY.
that's like gold, man. gold.
by busch league on Jun 7, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smoker
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cards pick
I still think Joe Savery could be a real good bet here, but I can't tell if there's any way he could fall all the way into the supp. round.
Just not Brackman, I hope.
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schmidt
by Cardinal70 on Jun 7, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schmidt
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should pick the high-ceiling...
Will take Harvey, who will be very good.
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They should pick Michael Main
by ReplacementLevelPoster on Jun 7, 2007 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DAMN!
by bigcardsfan5 on Jun 7, 2007 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd guess
I'm not sure I want Schmidt from what I read.
by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 3:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hmm
will pick: main or harvey
by azruavatar on Jun 7, 2007 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
if they take porcello, he probably becomes the number 1 pitching prospect in the org. I don't see how you can let him fall to the likes of the Yankees or Mets
by whiteyball on Jun 7, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I swear to god cardinals
by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 3:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
C'mon Porcello
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Peter Kozma
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dammit.
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Peter Kozma
Height/Weight: 6-1, 180 | DOB: 4/11/88
Kozma is a solid player who does not project to be a star, but an average major leaguer. He is a hard worker who gets the most out of his abilities. Kozma has excellent hitting skills and developing power. He also has above-average speed and is a solid base runner. Defensively, Kozma has an average arm and range at shortstop. He is comparable to Mark Loretta, albeit with more athleticism. Kozma is a relatively advanced high school player and he has committed to play college ball at Wichita State University.
by Carps on Jun 7, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
18th overall
bleech.
by craig3410 on Jun 7, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
credit for the above
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball Prospectus' Take
37. [Ranking in the Top 50] Peter Kozma, SS, Owasso HS (OK)
Pros: Line-drive bat with excellent feel for contact; plus-plus defender with smooth shortstop actions and a strong, accurate arm.
Cons: On the smallish side, and not the kind of body that will fill out much; an average runner.
by holden on Jun 7, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So we drafted a guy
by Solanus on Jun 7, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
holy crap
sigh....
by busch league on Jun 7, 2007 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Eck isn't even average, defensively...
by DiscoJer on Jun 7, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BOOOOOO
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lamest scouting video
Then again, judging by the posted descriptions (e.g., "He's David Eckstein", "Loretta", or "Adam Kennedy"), I don't know why I expected his scouting video to be eye-opening.
WTF?
by goodymobb on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
God Damnit.
'no one tool jumps out'
Oy.
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What happened
Leave it to the Cardinals to make a high school pick that I don't even like.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are we trying
by JBagKY on Jun 7, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
uh oh...
I guess this means he'll never see Memphis?
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
vomit
tools, nothing exceptional about him though.
bad pick
by azruavatar on Jun 7, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Luhnow and Dewitt suck...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Phillies should take no time with their next
Either that, or they're so stunned, they'll wait the 5 mins and take Porcello.
by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I guess I'm happy.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/2007xrnd.php?rnd=1
by effin fisk on Jun 7, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, i think that's probably good for MSU
by saladdays on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this cant be
by Dave0585 on Jun 7, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
People here are so funny
by saladdays on Jun 7, 2007 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and you're so superior
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny-maybe
But when you see 1st rounders from HS picked in the 2005 draft, pitching well in the big leagues already - I'd like just once for one to be a Cardinal.
by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
addendum
by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get over yourself...
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm only being realistic
And it is different than someone overreacting to an error, as that can cause a loss in a game that is actually being played. This is all speculative here.
by saladdays on Jun 7, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not any different...
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Larry
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
all threads close after 7 days
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The VEB and Luhnow relationship
by enoscountry on Jun 7, 2007 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yikes
by joker24 on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
eh..
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Phillies Take Savery
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Philadelphia drafts a pitcher
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is such GARBAGE
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
this pisses me off
by bigcardsfan5 on Jun 7, 2007 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cannot believe it....
Should have taken Porcello...unbelievable.
Worst thing about it...if they really wanted Kozma he probably could have been had at 36.
Unbelievable!!!
I think this was a terrible pick and I probably like Kozma more than most.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
different lenses
"We have a very different way of looking (at the players)," said Jeff Luhnow, the Cardinals vice president and farm director who enters his third draft with the team. "We have different lenses that we put on them that will separate them in very unique ways. It is possible our first pick or second pick will be a little bit of a head-scratcher for the pundits who have predicted (those) rounds. I think we have better information. We have better and different information."
by imissrex on Jun 7, 2007 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
unless that information
by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup...
Can't believe they didn't take Porcello or even Harvey or Main.
WOW!
Let's see who falls to 36...maybe they will sign someone for "over slot" there.
Very disappointing though.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the thing I don't get about Kozma
And he's in high school! So they're picking a guy who grades out to be average if everything breaks right, and he has four years worth of things that need to break right before he'll show up in a big league uniform.
by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
.300/.350/.433...
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's wrong with a better Loretta?
The Cardinals need 2B/SS. They them now, but they will need them 3-4 years from now as well. They don't have any in the minors, AFAIK.
by DiscoJer on Jun 7, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are very short...
Still though, Porcello IMO is the best pitcher in the entire draft and he was availabe at 18...maybe he is still there at 36?
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I despise Jeff Luhnow right now
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dammit dammit dammit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DAMMIT
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we'll
I'm trying to be positive here...
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Porcello
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kozma
by whiteyball on Jun 7, 2007 4:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rasmus
by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kozma reminds me of Rasmus
The power numbers was the glaring difference I first noticed between the 2. And I never said he was as good or would be as good. But he reminds of Rasmus as he seems like he has good character, played in a winning program in HS, nice looking lefty swing, and lots of success in the playoffs during their Sr. year.
by whiteyball on Jun 7, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you're saying he's like rasmus, in that
b. he played on a good HS team
c. he has good character
tell you what, if those are the characteristics we're looking for, we can probably find them in every draft pick we make from here on out.
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lefty?
A few possibilities:
1- He switch hits.
2- The video is of another dude.
3- He doesn't have a "nice looking lefty swing" at all.
Not sure which is the case, but something doesn't jibe between your description and the video linked from the site.
by goodymobb on Jun 7, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right handed
by whiteyball on Jun 7, 2007 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rasmus..
Kozma has.. makeup that is off the charts. Something that you can't chart is off the chart.
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well, by definition,
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds like everyone likes porcello, main, harvey
any chance any of these three are still around at the next pick?
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm from Oklahoma..
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Considering he was ticketed to be a mid-30s pick..
by saladdays on Jun 7, 2007 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chances are
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who got the supplemental pick for Lee?
by enoscountry on Jun 7, 2007 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Texas
by mikedallas23 on Jun 7, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i love the Giants draft so far...
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Main, Porcello, Smoker,
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There goes Alderson...
Not that we couldn't make space, but these kids would have to stick by age 21 or 22. Money aside, that's a real reason to back off those guys, imo.
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball Analysts Website.
by Carps on Jun 7, 2007 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
their comments
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is truly...
Thanks for pulling it all together lboros...
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
schmidt to the fathers
by busch league on Jun 7, 2007 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Video of Kozma on MLB's Draft Tracker
He looks like he has a pretty sweet swing, for a right-handed hitter. It could be seen as a little long, but it will get refined in the minors - he's only 18. It looks like he goes and gets the ball wherever it is pitched and doesn't try to do too much with it (goes with the pitch already!)
He has decent time on home-to-first...he was not trying to beat out an infield hit when timed...(an easy double at about 4.3 seconds to first.)
Those are about the only three things shown on the tape (approx. 1:20 in length)
stlfan
by stlfan on Jun 7, 2007 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
those bastards!
by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 4:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that rotation
holy crap that's scary
by azruavatar on Jun 7, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like
by jealousblues on Jun 7, 2007 4:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was just watching
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
how many times...
i'll set the over/under at 5.5.
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Porcello to the Tigers
Verlander
Bonderman
A. Miller
Robertson
Porcello?
By the way, I love Porcello's mechanics. Just beautiful.
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Last year's draft question
by Molina4MVP on Jun 7, 2007 4:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
McCormick
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kozma
by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
McCormick
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
who's left?
after all, that'd pretty much bring the farm system's middle infield prospect total to two.
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Josh Smoker
I'm down with the Kozma pick, now that I've had some time to let it sink in. We took the high-ceiling SS last year in Pham and it didn't work out. Kozma will stick at short, at least. Would have been more excited about Porcello, but we picked a good, well-rounded ballplayer. Plenty of teams behind us made much worse picks.
by liam on Jun 7, 2007 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kozma
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More from the "On the bright side"
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you gotta be kidding me.....
by Jtip20 on Jun 7, 2007 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
speaking as a guy who hates the pick...
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully we take
Or maybe Michael Burgess..
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
God I hope not...
Juan Pierre-esque.
This would be a terrible draft if we took this guy.
HARVEY!!!!
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow!
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nope, the giants
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
End of first Thoughts
Teams that did well: Tigers, Rangers, Giants.
Teams that did poorly: Cards, Twins, Reds, Brewers, whichever team took the catcher in the 20s that was way overdrafted. (I forget who at the moment)
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
still got a shot at Smoker or Harvey...
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Smoker
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Main
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My take..
Granted, I think it's just another example of a cheap ownership.
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 4:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Quote from the Gould article linked to above...
Hmmm. That is quite a range.
by taguchi on Jun 7, 2007 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also that...
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jeezus...
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think I heard this morning that the Padres
by OCCardsFan on Jun 7, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Thing
by liam on Jun 7, 2007 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 5:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Looks like no
by liam on Jun 7, 2007 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They can still pull out a good draft
by joker24 on Jun 7, 2007 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
several people...
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something surprised the Blue Jays
by liam on Jun 7, 2007 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're wrong
by silent_bob on Jun 7, 2007 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that I read more
by joker24 on Jun 7, 2007 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can that be right...
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's because they signed
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rasmus
by Carps on Jun 7, 2007 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No
He was thought to have a big upside, though. He broke the Alabama state home run record, (set by Bo Jackson) and did it as a skinny teenager. His power was projected to be well-above average when he filled out.
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was a first rounder...
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah crap...
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
NO BORBON!!!
Please let it be Matt Harvey.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can someone explain how this makes sense?
Versus the recent profile from Goold: "As their pick approached several of the players the Cardinals had ranked high and one (prep superstar pitcher Rick Porcello) who they judged as unsignable were still available."
by Handsome B Wonderful on Jun 7, 2007 5:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
read closer...
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if they had kozma higher than porcello
by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mortensen:
FB Movement: There is some sinking action to Mortensen's fastball.
Slider: He throws his slider in the 81-84 mph range and it has some late tilt.
Changeup: Mortensen's changeup sits at 81-83 mph and has some arm side face.
Control: Mortensen needs to make sure he locates his fastball consistently, something he doesn't always do. He's improved as the season has gone on.
Poise: A senior who is Gonzaga's Saturday starter, Mortensen has good mound presence.
Physical Description: Mortensen has a tall, lean body and a frame that should be able to handle added strength, making him a rare commodity: a projectable college senior.
Medical Update: Healthy.
Strengths: A three-pitch mix with an average fasatball he maintains deep into starts. He also has a good pitcher's body with room for growth.
Weaknesses: Mortensen lacks deception at times and he doesn't always locate his fastball consistently.
Summary: While there are often college seniors who make very good pros, it's rare for there to be one like Mortensen, a legitimate "prospect" on the rise in his senior season. He's got three usable pitches and a body frame that appears able to handle added strength, which could make his fastball even better. He should be a very intriguing senior sign this summer."
Borbon went one pick before ours.
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
is it possible with
by Dave0585 on Jun 7, 2007 5:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
what im saying
by Dave0585 on Jun 7, 2007 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly...
Better to draft guys who might actually pitch in the majors some day for the Cardinals, instead of guys who have good stuff, but will languish in the minors, because of a clash in pitching philosophies.
by DiscoJer on Jun 7, 2007 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not possible...
Unfortunately, it's all about the $$$
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A college pitcher?
by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 5:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mortensen???
Lunhow's "golden-god" status is certainly gone now.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure I understand
We'll know in 3-4 years whether or not he is a golden-god drafter dude. There's simply no way to tell yet, based solely off of how well his choices meshed with the prospect lists/one paragraph descriptions we've all been memorizing...
by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2007 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sleepy
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah
Then again, I'm the type who likes to root for the underdog; I always cheer for the guys who go all in on partypoker.com and like to see people courageous enough to stand apart from the crowd. If he picked "by the book" I'd be more disappointed than if he took a risk and failed.
by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2007 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Risk
I'll state it again...I really like Kozma. He was far and away the best SS prospect in this draft.
Why I am disappointed is that we heard the whole time that they would go for the "homerun"if it were available and they clearly didn't with Kozma or Mortensen. They didn't spend money in free agency and vowed to spend it in player development...again they didn't.
I think Kozma is going to be an above average SS one day, Mortensen on the other hand might rise fast but his talent level is marginal IMO.
They didn't take a high reward/high risk player.
Oh well, maybe they hit a homerun in the latter rounds...I'll admit that I don't know much about most of these guys past the 2nd or 3rd round.
Diamonds in the rough hopefully.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dan
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh
by truemun12 on Jun 7, 2007 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Very disappointing, must they be so frugal in every aspect.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From BA
Which puts his value more appropriately in the 4th-5th rounds, I'd say. This seems like an embarassing pick at first glance. I don't care that the Cardinals think they see more in guys like him, and Kozma, than we do. That's fine, and I trust their opinions far more than I do my own. But if this guy would have been around for a few more rounds, what is the point in taking him now? I just flat out don't understand this philosophy at all.
by jms8897 on Jun 7, 2007 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's give them a break...
Looking at Mortensen's video on MLB.com, he seems to have a nice fluid motion that will not cause injury problems in the future. Everything I read about him says that he is a four-year college senior with some still untapped potential, which apparently is extremely rare.
stlfan
by stlfan on Jun 7, 2007 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball analysts...
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's back to Mortensen...
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently
by awpierce on Jun 7, 2007 5:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not so much
stlfan
by stlfan on Jun 7, 2007 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't wait...
I would, for once, like to have this front office tell the fans the truth...."It really didn't have much to do with talent. We HAD to draft someone and these guys were the absolute cheapest players we could find where we picked"
Terrible draft...just terrible.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not so fast
i will / can ask him whether the pass on porcello was strictly a dollars issue. i can tell him a lot of fans perceive dollars, rather than talent, to be the cardinals' prime motivation in this draft, and that many in my community were very disappointed by the picks.
but for all i know, these are tremendous selections. just because they go against the conventional wisdom, it doesn't therefore follow that the players are failures. i have no grounds on which to criticize ---- not yet.
let's see the players on the field before we judge them.
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said LBoros
The baseball draft requires patience and confidence in the organization leadership. I am willing to give them that.
by OCCardsFan on Jun 7, 2007 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree with that
i'm willing to wait and see how these guys perform, and hear from luhnow about the strategy and reasons for the picks. but if it sounds like it was mostly money/"no Boras guys", or they don't perform, i'm going to be pissed.
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if they don't perform
if the cards' decision-makers came to a different conclusion, well --- their judgment will be put to the test when the players hit the field. the proof will be in the putting.
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree again
;)
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
another thing
Maybe our front office saw something in these players, and while they knew that they COULD be sleepers, they wanted to make sure they got them at all costs. Sure this means losing a couple high ceiling guys early on, but it also gets rid of the risk of losing the guys we actually wanted by trying to wait a few rounds before grabbing them.
by aet15 on Jun 7, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think that the Boras article
by Solanus on Jun 7, 2007 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taking him to task...
Actually, I like Kozma as a player. Although, I believe he would have been there at 36 anyway. Not taking the best pitcher in the draft(in my mind and many others) when he is available at 18 is just inexcusable. There is no way to explain that except $$$.
Mortensen's CEILING is Brad Thompson...that doesn't excite me much. Harvey was available here as well. Again, all about the benjies(sorry about the P Diddy, or whatever he calls himself these days, reference)
The only good news all day is that Borbon was picked before Lunhow could swoop him up.
I disagree, you do have ground to criticize...you really do. Making draft picks should not be about money and they CLEARLY were.
There is absolutely NO WAY that Kozma was rated higher than Porcello...it's not possible. If it is, our entire scouting department should be fired.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would be comfortable asking him
but, you know --- a number of teams from bigger markets passed on porcello; they obviously didn't want to pay the price tag, either. even teams that had multiple picks, and maybe could have afforded to "waste" one on a risky boras client, passed. given that fact, i still have to tread lightly in accusing the team of being cheap.
even if luhnow admits that it was a $$$$ issue --- until kozma proves to be a washout, i have a hard time calling "bullshit" on them.
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NOW i disagree
that's what i'm saying. is it possible kozma will be better? sure. he could be better than people think, or porcello could be mark prior (or rick ankiel, or chris narveson...), or whatever. but the overwhelming consensus is that the odds are that it will be the opposite, and in the draft, all you can do is play the odds.
if i hear that luhnow, dewitt & co really had kozma ahead of porcello on their board, based on talent/need alone, fine - then i'll be willing to wait and see. but if it was based on money, then i'm not willing to wait - i'm pissed NOW. because if we're not willing to be angry about good picks that turned out badly (because of risks that didn't pan out, injuries, etc.), then we should be willing to forgive bad picks that turn out all right.
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahem
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Kozma has to wash out..
What would you rather have...a slight above average SS or a front of the rotation starter? You don't even have to answer.
Again, I like Kozma as a player...but the pick is still inexcusable.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but many other organizations
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, many of them ARE cheap.
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not so much cheap...
This guy sounds like Duncan will love him. His best pitch is the sinker. Indeed, he sounds a lot like Carpenter.
Or do you want to do through more and more Anthony Reyes soap operas, year after year?
by DiscoJer on Jun 7, 2007 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Carpenter...
Anyway, Duncan is likely to be long gone by the time this kid is ready.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Justin Jackson goes 45...
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not to go off track
by jojo5492 on Jun 7, 2007 5:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no
by Molina4MVP on Jun 7, 2007 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my bad
by jojo5492 on Jun 7, 2007 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Schilling
by Molina4MVP on Jun 7, 2007 5:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and
by Molina4MVP on Jun 7, 2007 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WOW
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 5:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wooo hoooo...
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why?
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cuz he's an a**h***...
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because
- bloody sock
- outspoken jock
- apparently a
by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care if you are Carlos Zambrano
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so are you
(Just asking, I don't really care what he does.)
by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm anti-Barry
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i will wish
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luhnow's draft
by MikeG on Jun 7, 2007 5:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Perfect Quote
VEB2: Most of these guys never had a prime.
VEB3: This guy here is dead.
DeWitt: Cross him off then
by wrv18 on Jun 7, 2007 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is
Like we are the board members in with Rachel Phelps ...aka...Bill DeWitt.
by wrv18 on Jun 7, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
harvey STILL out there?
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 5:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just think...
Can you imagine how different the tone of this thread would be had that happened?
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they never considered Porcello
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's your point???
Funny how the team that didn't disagree with them has one of the best, if not the best, young rotation in baseball and more on the way.
The Tigers will probably win 675 games over the next 7 years.
Oh well, at least we saved a little cash!!!
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
disagree...
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you disagreeing with?
I'm not upset they didn't give Carlos Lee 100M dollars...quite the contrary. Porcello was the gamble to make, and if it worked out...10M is peanuts.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
10M to a guy who hasn't faced a single MLB hitter
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does to me.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it didn't work out
The SBNation's Atlanta Falcons Blog
by Dave the Falconer on Jun 7, 2007 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've said...
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just summing up the tone of the thread
The SBNation's Atlanta Falcons Blog
by Dave the Falconer on Jun 7, 2007 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be a wasted pick...
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weird coincidence
Apparently, being an Aries is a critical skillset for the Cards this draft.
by punditmoi on Jun 7, 2007 6:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Draft me
by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll alert...
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i feel like
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This Draft
I gave the team a pass on not spending in the offseason. Not enough on the market, out of control contracts, just won a championship, etc. Today, however, I must admit to being a little pissed off. (and maybe a little more than a little)
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pissed off...
THERE IS NO LEGITIMATE EXCUSE FOR NOT DRAFTING PORCELLO...there just isn't one. It is painfully obvious that $$$ was the #1 factor in this draft, anyone claiming otherwise isn't paying attention.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't he a Boras client?
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who knows...
Let's just hope they get lucky with a late round pick...it could happen.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently the front office
by BirdBrained on Jun 7, 2007 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lol
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His leverage...
by guayzimi on Jun 7, 2007 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what if this draft is about longevity
But what if they think they have 2 starters (in their first 2 picks) for 10 years in the majors as opposed to only having porcello for say 5 years in the majors b/c if he is that dominant, we probably couldnt outbid the bigger market teams. When he receaches free agency he will be about what, 27, which could still be in his prime and command top dollar and who knows how long he would be pitching for our big league team????
not defending the picks, just looking at it from a different perspective
by Dave0585 on Jun 7, 2007 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Much rather have...
Talent level isn't remotely close.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you know that how?
Probably not, but it's way too soon to say he's awful. We know next to nothing about him. He probably isn't going to amount to anything, but Porcello probably won't either, no matter what the buzz says. The difference is that one would have cost us more than we're paying Chris Carpenter...
by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2007 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do I know that?
Porcello has 4 plus offerings...Mortensen has one. Porcello was rated by many as the best pitcher in the draft...Mortensen was rated as the #116 overall prospect by BA.
It's pretty obvious that Porcello's talent level is worlds above Mortensens...I don't even see how that can be argued but whatever.
BTW, all the scouting reports on Mortensen that I've seen place him in the 89-92 range translated means he has problems hitting 90. Porcello scouting reports have a HIGH SCHOOLER touching 97 translated means 94-95.
"The difference is that one would have cost us more than we're paying Chris Carpenter..."
Nope. The difference is that one's ceiling is top of the rotation starter and the other's is Brad Thompson.
BTW five years of Porcello probably cost us in the 20-25M dollar range counting his bonus.
Five years of Carpenter cost us upwards of 60.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying
And, by the way, we're paying CC $8.25M this season. It's going to cost at least that to have the opportunity to watch Porcello pitch against A ball players.
by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2007 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, not what I'm saying.
Porcello has worlds more talent than Mortensen...period, end of story, not debateable.
And, by the way, it doesn't matter what Carp is making this season.
The 10M that you claim is more of an investment than we have in Carpenter is buying us 5 years under club control of Porcello. Not that difficult to understand.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man your authoritative tone is pretty annoying
by OCCardsFan on Jun 7, 2007 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK
Mortensen...Yes, and the Brad Thompson comparison is spot on.
"missing' really has nothing to do with it.
My problem is not taking a chance on a guy who was rated by many as the best pitcher in the draft solely based on money.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's the point
the reason bobby (and i) are upset is because we don't believe this is about which player is better. we think luhnow, just based on talent, would have taken porcello - because that's basically the universal consensus. i haven't seen a single expert anywhere that had porcello rated lower. again, that doesn't mean luhnow didn't - but my guess is luhnow's board on this particular point was in line with the others'.
the reason we're upset is because we suspect that this wasn't a decision based on talent or potential. it was a decision based on money. that's why we're upset. and if we're right, then yeah, the cardinals could still get lucky - but if we're not going to forgive the scouts for being unlucky with a good pick, we shouldn't forgive them for being lucky on a bad pick. and if they passed on porcello for financial reasons, then not picking porcello was a bad pick.
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure where to start
by OKCardsfan on Jun 7, 2007 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel and Prior don't really support your
by azruavatar on Jun 7, 2007 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They support the argument
by OKCardsfan on Jun 7, 2007 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a poor pick
Kozma isn't a bad player. I don't dislike having him in our system. I do dislike that we used pick #18 on him.
by azruavatar on Jun 8, 2007 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you
by OKCardsfan on Jun 8, 2007 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
the problem with that line of reasoning is that you are then trying to develop just good enough players that they don't ever leave. You're actually putting together a team that's so mediocre that no other team will want to take what you have.
by the red baron on Jun 7, 2007 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not so much build talent that is just mediocre
by Dave0585 on Jun 7, 2007 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You get...
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
next 4
can't see any of them ponying up for harvey.
next even possible spot seems to be braves at 69.
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lets all just take time to breathe....
Besides, by the time most of the players from this draft make the major leagues, a lot will of happened. Be it trades/free agent signings/etc...., as most of these kids are 2-4 years away.
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 6:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well said
by spiderman15 on Jun 7, 2007 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lineups for tonight
Eck
Dunc
AP
Edm
Rolen
Juan E
Kennedy
Bennett
A.Wain
Had this little interesting bit:
TLR says there is no starting pitching out there, so they will have to win with what they have...and they will.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 6:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How about that Anthony Reyes guy?
by Carps on Jun 7, 2007 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tomo freakin Ohka...
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
None of our best (noninjured) options on the bench
by Mr Redbird on Jun 7, 2007 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Washington takes another Zimmerman
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Card take David Kopp
Fastball: Kopp throws his fastball in the 89-93 mph range and can sit comfortably at 92 mph.
Slider: Kopp's slider is average right now, but projects to be an above-average pitch.
Changeup: Like the slide, the changeup is average now with the chance to be better in the future.
Control: His command, especially of his fastball is below-average.
Poise: He's got average makeup. He pitches backwards at times -- which isn't his fault -- but he's improved with that over time.
Physical Description: Kopp has a Steve Trachsel body type with some room to grow.
Medical Update: Healthy.
Strengths: The chance to throw three average to above-average pitches.
Weaknesses: His command is below-average.
Summary: Kopp doesn't get much attention because of teammate Daniel Moskos, but he does have the possibility of three very good Major League offerings. His command and delivery have been a mess in the past, but he's improved on the delivery and has shown the ability to get better over time. Moskos clearly will be the first Clemson pitcher selected, but teams would do well not to look past the second.
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"He pitches backwards at times"
by Mr Redbird on Jun 7, 2007 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
means he leads with his breaking stuff
by lboros on Jun 7, 2007 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got it
by Mr Redbird on Jun 7, 2007 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mariners just took denny almonte
that name made me do a double take.
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Danny Almonte!
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 6:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kopp is a good pick
by joker24 on Jun 7, 2007 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would have liked Rike..
Here is a quick prayer that Jeff Luhnow know something that all of us do not.
by wrv18 on Jun 7, 2007 6:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cards take Jesse Todd
Changeup: Todd's changeup is a below-average offering.
Slider: He throws an average slider.
Control: Todd has above-average command, especially of his fastball and changeup.
Poise: He has excellent makeup.
Physical Description: Todd is a bit undersized and draws comparisons in body type to Fernando Rodney.
Medical Update: Healthy.
Strengths: Above-average command and good fastball.
Weaknesses: Secondary offerings are not as consistent as the fastball.
Summary: While Arkansas Friday starter Nick Schmidt gets more of the attention, Todd has done a nice job, first as a reliever and now as the Saturday starter. With a good fastball, an average slider and excellent command, he might best be suited to a bullpen role at the next level. If he can bring the changeup up to snuff, he could get a look as a starter.
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 6:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ho hum
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
last two picks
i guess i can go back to work now.
by nycbirdo on Jun 7, 2007 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
High ceiling?
We've got Kozma, who I like but doesn't project to have a high ceiling, and three "projectible college starters"...which is quickly becoming my least favorite phrase btw.
ho hum, most boring draft I've ever followed.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Larry says he is out for the evening
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 7, 2007 6:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
already up
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 7, 2007 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lot of anger today
surprise surprise. the Cards went cheep.
can't really judge this draft for a couple years. but from what i've read here. i'm not impressed.
by gdm426 on Jun 7, 2007 6:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OH..STOUT
Seriously...why spend money on a bunch of stat guys and some dumb analytical tool when the draft is essentially doing the same thing that we did in 2004...drafting low risk college righty's. Hey...that theory worked out great.
by wrv18 on Jun 7, 2007 6:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cards take 3B Daniel Descalso...
by kindred on Jun 7, 2007 7:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is almost getting comical...
I'm glad the game is coming on soon.
Looks like a small, speedy type.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Angels took Harvey
They're known for tough signs like Adenhart, Weaver, Trumbo..
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 7:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm disappointed..
As a prospect analyzer.. this draft is making my eyes bleed. We've passed up so many good prospects.
Burgess, Roemer, Mangini, Cozart, Hunter Morris,
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 7:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Word to describe this draft:
Also, another bone I have to pick. I realize he's our ace, and he's proven, but what is with the brass not wanting to ever pay another pitcher more than what Carp is getting paid? I understand paying an 18-year-old kid that much is a little much, but it seems like that train of thought holds us back from ever signing any top-of-the-rotation guys, whether they be better than Carp or not.
by Mr Redbird on Jun 7, 2007 7:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kyle Russell..
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 7:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Problem is signing him
by joker24 on Jun 7, 2007 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Russell
Say what you will about the myth of the five tool player, but I'd rather have one of them than a zero tool college pitcher with an 89 mph fastball and "pitchability"
by DanUpBaby on Jun 7, 2007 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
danup...
by wrv18 on Jun 7, 2007 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Finally...
Above average athleticism, speed, and "light tower power" as they say.
By far my fav pick so far.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
kudos to OKCardsfan
I have to admit that after seeing Kozma's high school stats in the link he gave I was excited (1.7+ OPS in high school- .522 BA- wonder what his babip was?) but didn't think there was any chance we'd pick him up. So anyway, I'm happier about it now than I was earlier. Good call, OKCF.
by SleepyCA on Jun 7, 2007 10:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's easy to dismiss
by OKCardsfan on Jun 7, 2007 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Russell
by nmstar on Jun 7, 2007 10:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
At least...
He definitely has some work to do, but I believe his upside far exceeds anyone we have drafted so far...so they probably won't sign him.
by bobbyballgame1 on Jun 7, 2007 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretend
= ) = )
by KeepOnRolen on Jun 7, 2007 10:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I choose to believe it's
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 7, 2007 11:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm With You
Also, I love fedoras, and actually own many, many hats, but can we maybe just even out the number of fedoras and women? I mean, you know, hats are cool and all, but... more hats than girls is a little worrisome to me.
by the red baron on Jun 8, 2007 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs



















