Game 67 Open Thread: June 18, 2007, 7:10 CDT
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3-7, 6.19 |
5-5, 4.66 |
GAME TIME 7:10 CDT
by now you've probably heard that edmonds and looper have both gone to the DL, with troy cate and skip schumaker being recalled. i can understand the various reasons why they didn't bring up ankiel --- they don't have an option on him, he's still learning, they want him playing every day. but what the hell does john rodriguez have to do to get a call? he's slumped the last week, yes --- 4 for his last 29 --- but even taking that into account, his june OPS is .924, and since may 1 it is well over 1.000. he could credibly step into the st louis lineup batting 2d, with duncan dropping down to edmonds' accustomed slot at #4 or #5, and the lineup wouldn't miss a beat; on the contrary, it'd probably improve. against right-handers encarnacion would play center, flanked by duncan and j-rod; vs lefties juan'cion would slide back over to right, with gooch in center and ludwick or duncan in left.schumaker admittedly had a nice month down at memphis, but his career minor-league OPS is .729, which is consistent with his career big-league OPS of .546 in a small sample size. rodriguez has a career minor-league ops of .833 and career big-league OPS of .812 (also small sample). this is not an insignificant decision; whoever comes up is likely to get lots of playing time. i think they're calling up the wrong guy.
the royals are 8-4 against national league competition this year and have won all 4 series, 2 games to 1. they've scored 91 runs in the 12 games, or 7.6 runs per. 9 of those 12 games were at home, however, and the royals' hitters are a far more productive group at the K:
| avg | obp | slg | r/g | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| home | .265 | .328 | .414 | 4.67 |
| road | .246 | .320 | .368 | 4.00 |
meanwhile, the cardinals as a team pitch much better at home than on the road:
| era | whip | hr/9 | |
|---|---|---|---|
| home | 4.60 | 1.422 | 0.87 |
| road | 5.67 | 1.474 | 1.15 |
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Larry, more to the Edmonds thing
- Edmonds went to have an MRI on his back and leg today; results not in
- Edmonds did not know earlier in the day why he was not in lineup
- Edmonds talked to Walt and Tony, found out he was going to the DL
- Edmonds says it wasn't so bad because 'we are facing a lot of lefties'
- LaRussa wants to see Ankiel with the club, but options prohibit it
* Skip is being given MLB at-bats as part of a package deal including Reyes with Chicago.
Take it all for what it is worth.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 6:14 PM EDT reply actions
re the edmonds intrigue
edmonds and la russa have been at odds since last year, and very sharply so this year. i still need to see / hear a little more about this situation before i venture an opinion on it.
Apparently Pat Paris is filling in on 1380
It, like all good rumors do, makes sense as why else would Edmonds have a sudden positive reaction to being DL'd just because 'we are facing a bunch of lefties'.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Pre-1990 games on tape
My email is in my profile. I'm up for trading if you have a list I can take a look at.
by LTSmash on Jun 19, 2007 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Calling up Skip
went to the 2nd and 3rd games at Kaufman
Of course, I'll take it if they win a 21-14 football game, but whatever....
I can understand someone wanting
It should be Ankiel
by MikeG on Jun 18, 2007 6:32 PM EDT reply actions
exciting, maybe
Ludwick is out of options as well
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
this may be your point, but
Exactly my point
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
what's the hurry
they can give him another 200 triple A plate appearances, then call him up august 15 or september 1 or whatever and still give him 100 to 150 plate appearances at the big-league level, assuming they're out of the race. get a more accurate read on his skills that way, imho.
I also believe that because of service time
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
do you know the # of days?
Not exactly
I'm 99% sure that's the case.
Also, if we don't call him up at all
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
He's got...
a .323 OBP
ankiel's hr total does look really good. but he has to walk more and/or strike out less to be any better than ludwick in the major leagues.
jrod's career mlb OPS is over .800. that would put him third on this team.
not a tool
by MikeG on Jun 18, 2007 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
um
I'm so ignorant
By that I don't mean that I don't understand the significance of the stat... I mean I can't even word out the acronym.
And I guess I am with Casey Stengel on this... to paraphrase, "I don't need no stinkin' number" to tell me if a guy can hit.
by CurtFlood on Jun 18, 2007 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
'On-base plus slugging'
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 19, 2007 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
La Russa can be
How many options does a guy get between AAA-MLB?
Just speculating on my part...to be honest, I'm not sure how many options a guy gets, and if they sign him to a new contract, can he get a fresh set of options? Any answers would be appreciated.
by TedGlover on Jun 18, 2007 6:48 PM EDT reply actions
it's a misleading expression
Thanks, DC!
by TedGlover on Jun 18, 2007 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
And...
Is Brandon Buckman
by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Jun 18, 2007 6:51 PM EDT reply actions
Needs more time in the minors
by ChiTown CardFan on Jun 18, 2007 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Some say.....
by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Jun 18, 2007 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
his power seems real
Springfield's isn't hurting for a 1B right now
Speaking of Springfield though, I was at the game last night. Rasmus doesn't seem to be doing so hot right now. His average is back below .260. I've only seen him in two games this season--small sample size, I know--but I've already seen him strike out four times. Granted, strike two of one of his at bats last night was a 360 foot foul ball that was only foul by a few feet, but he didn't look very comfortable.
April avg: .234
May avg: .340
June avg: .156
Do I think he's the future? Yes I do. Do I think the future is now? Nope.
Mather is a bad mamba jamba though. I'm pretty curious to see what happens with him. He showed off his arm last night, nearly throwing a guy out at second from the RF corner. The guy's just huge. He smoked the ball at the plate, too, but hit into some bad luck.
i'm sorry if i confused everyone
here is what pat paris and bernie said on his show.
edmonds sometime over the weekend tod the Cards he thought he hurt his upper back overcomsensating for his toe and shoulder. so he asked for an MRI, which was done, but no results in yet.
when edmonds got to the park, the Cards had already DL's him and LOOP. edmonds was pissed, told jim hayes and pat paris of fsn midwest he was pissed because he didn't know why he was being DL's. edmonds then had a meeting with Walt & Tony in Tony's office where pat paris guessed they told edmonds that SKIPPY needs some at bats vs MLB pitching before any one will take him in a trade. pat assumes this because a sourse with the Cards told him the White Sox were one of the clubs scouting Anthony's start yesterday. this sourse would not go on record, so pat couldn't confirm 100% SKIPPY and Anthony are being looked at for a possiable trade to the sox for everyone's fave home town lefty.
after Edmonds was told this, he then told jim heyes he was OK with going on the DL. he understands what's going on and is taking one for the team. he thinks he needs some time off anyway. and the Cards are officially saying they are facing a lot of lefty pitching in the next two weeks, that's why it's the best time for edmonds to go on the DL. they can't or won't confirm what pat said about the possiable trade with the white sox being in the works.
during the fsn pre game show they hope to interview edmonds and get all this cleared up.
bernie says Tony & Edmonds fighting is not a big deal. they love each other, and they always do this every summer. bernie says it wouldn't be a summer in the stl without Tony & Jimmy butting heads. Jimmy is a free spirit SO CAL guy, and Tony is a old school guy. so naturally they will butt heads. but they are fine because deep down they have a great amount of respect for each other.
i hope this helps clear everything up. again, i'm sorry for confusing every one. i was only trying to relay what i was hearing live online.
Odalis Perez
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Jun 18, 2007 7:38 PM EDT reply actions
I think he is a handsome devil
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Wainwright's ERA currently sits a 4.66
I'd like to see either of those done.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 7:46 PM EDT reply actions
I guess that works too
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe it wasn't schu the sox were looking at
skip does seem like their type of player, but the rumors still seems a li'l far-fetched for me. i think the sox can fetch better elsewhere. if they plan on signing buehrle to an extension, it would make since. reyes/schu is not haren/barton/calero part II, IMO, by any stretch.
Why Ankiel?
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
i thought
Scouts at Memphis
Maybe it was both
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
What'd they do to Brian Anderson?
My White Sox friends are convinced he didn't get enough playing time in the bigs—one of many reasons they despise OzGui.
(But I've long been a fan of Skip and have thought, perhaps irrationally, that he could develop into a solid line-drive/gap hitter with plus defensive skills.)
As bad as the road trip was at times
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 8:04 PM EDT reply actions
In this division going
Buehrle-Reyes-Schu makes sense
by dancurry on Jun 18, 2007 8:06 PM EDT reply actions
I am worried
as for...
maybe that's how Cardinal mgt sees it, too... substitute "even make it to the playoffs" for "getting some hardware."
The more realistic view might be that even ONE stable starting pitcher might not be enough, and thus we shouldn't 'pay too much' to acquire Buehrle. BUT a counter view might be 'you don't get TWO reliable starters until you get the first one'... and maybe they think that Carp is soon to return and HE would be the second one.
I'm too stupid and nervous to know exactly what I would do, if I were Walt & co., but it seems pretty clear that we can't wait around to shore up this very weak rotation.
A 'wait for Carp' policy may be tantamount to kissing off this year.
by CurtFlood on Jun 19, 2007 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe if you close your eyes...
Taguchi probably has more trade value than Skip.
The White Sox (while Edmonds is on DL)
3 vs FLA
3 vs CHC
4 vs TB
2 vs KC
If they don't make up ground from being down 10.5 in the Central, 9.5 in the Wild Card a deal could be made.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 8:11 PM EDT reply actions
hey, after the guys we've seen...
Good lord, Adam...
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Jun 18, 2007 8:17 PM EDT reply actions
Rain delay or not on TV?
by 26thMan on Jun 18, 2007 8:21 PM EDT reply actions
It's on FSMW
This is getting old. Or my liver is, prematurely.
We central Illinoisans
Baseball > televised poker
by 26thMan on Jun 18, 2007 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Game is on
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
ok, see,
ERA
begs the question
imho, to the extent that era is taken as a measure of how good a pitcher is, runs that score because of the pitcher's own errors - and that would include wild pitches and balks - would add to, rather than detract from, the value of the statistic and should be included.
I see the argument,
ERA is already shitty enough at the former as is, especially in a small sample, and it's not like Wainwright's errors there are all that predictive anyway. It would just make it worse.
Geez Albert
UGH
so encarnacion swings at the first pitch and GIDP, and rolen grounds out on pitch two.
way to work the pitcher, guys.
The way he is throwing so far tonight
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Fielder passes Pujols???
Can he really end up being a sub?
by Birds on the Bat on Jun 18, 2007 8:41 PM EDT reply actions
The homestand
Royals
I had thought that very same thing....
I agree
p.s. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the Royals (after it healed from 1985, that is)
by CurtFlood on Jun 19, 2007 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
When is Bush
True....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 18, 2007 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
"The offense is repaired"
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 9:17 PM EDT reply actions
theres a few royals
just like good hitting is contagious
by longhornscardinals on Jun 18, 2007 9:28 PM EDT reply actions
must be dead...
by longhornscardinals on Jun 18, 2007 9:37 PM EDT reply actions
nice!
walk your dog!!! BOOO!!!!!!!!
Alright, Juan.
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 18, 2007 9:51 PM EDT reply actions
Once the hitting streak is over
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 9:52 PM EDT reply actions
Very nice, Juan
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Jun 18, 2007 9:52 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, it's shocking - SHOCKING!
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 18, 2007 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Encarnacion has left 6 men on base
Sheesh. I'll take Duncan helplessly hacking at lefties over that ineptitude.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 9:53 PM EDT reply actions
i just threw something across the room
did you know terriers can be thrown across a room?
that's funny
by CurtFlood on Jun 19, 2007 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
2 great lines
and then by nycbirdo..did you know terriers can be thrown across a room?
do the Cards not know Odalis Effin Perez
last time i go run errands before a Cards game. after last week, i was almost sure i could miss the first few innings and the Cards would have a lead.
this team killz me. you never know what they are going to do from game to game. this jekyll and hyde crap has gotten really old.
I know this is backwards thinking
Besides, the Royals have scored nearly 10 runs a game over the past 9, so this is actually half of their current output.
Again, baby steps and small moral victories...
Oy
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Jun 18, 2007 10:10 PM EDT reply actions
He's made a lot of great plays this year
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Rolen gets an error on that
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 10:12 PM EDT reply actions
on the flip side
he has had some great plays this year. but also he's been suspect at times too.
And yet, you have to admit,
Either way, he's still one of the best defenders at any position in the game today. Error or not.
Not good signs
Just something to watch, but I get that same feeling I had sitting in Pittsburgh last spring watching Mulder throw 65 mph fastballs.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 10:15 PM EDT reply actions
He's having an Edmondsesque
I was one of those who was getting pretty fed up with his play earlier this season. I love being proved wrong.
There's no way he plays this well for the rest of the season, but here's hoping he can keep from playing like he did in April/early May. Of course I guess that goes for everyone on our team except for yadi...
I too know
But on the "Eckstein/Freel" scale -- getting the most out of what you got -- he stacks up pretty well.
I think it's his last year and I will be sorry to see him go.
by CurtFlood on Jun 19, 2007 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
thompson starts on wednesday now?
I'm soooo going to the game
Figure I have a pretty good chance to get a ball - my seats are in the bleachers.
Mr Gold Glove
DANG IT
18 game hitting streak for Juan
Pardon the negative comment
Wow. I never knew I was a Juan hater until just now. Go figure.
for months now
after you start, it only gets worse.
Few nights go by that I don't pray that we trade him.
by CurtFlood on Jun 19, 2007 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
If we lose this game
Just means another day of playing time.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 10:33 PM EDT reply actions
This is Ludwick's kind of moment
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 10:35 PM EDT reply actions
isn't this a good time for Dunk to PH?
No
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
We are going to lose to the Royals again
This was our game to win in the series. Kippy is going to get shelled and Thompson is 50/50.
It's going to take a miracle to score 2 in the 9th and the German's have outlawed miracles.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 10:41 PM EDT reply actions
since when do the German's
after all,
And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets
the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
Well...
The waters? What waters? We're in the desert.
I was misinformed.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
good inning for TJ
alright AK
Does Kennedy
by Petkovsek on Jun 18, 2007 10:49 PM EDT reply actions
y pinch hit kennedy here
where's duncan!?!??!?
by cardsfaninmass on Jun 18, 2007 10:51 PM EDT reply actions
Oh...
by cardsfaninmass on Jun 18, 2007 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
come on Dunk
SO never comes through when you expect him too
You are correct, sir.
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Jun 18, 2007 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I just have this odd feeling
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Jun 18, 2007 10:56 PM EDT reply actions
well that certainly sucks....
by RosevilleRedbird on Jun 18, 2007 10:57 PM EDT reply actions
add another embarassing loss
Ugh.
I'm glad we didn't have John Rodriguez or Rick Ankiel to PH in any of these situations.
Ah well, on to 2008.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 10:59 PM EDT reply actions
Rain caused the timetable to be shrunk
Of course, that means that Adam Kennedy hadn't seen live pitching since, what, Friday?
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like the old pessimist hardcore is back
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 18, 2007 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
What was positive about tonight?
1- Scott Rolen hit a HR
2- The defense made a lot of great plays behind Wainwright to keep him in it.
3- Tyler Johnson didn't totally suck
Wainwright can't pitch for another 4 days and what, once during the next 8 games? So the liklihood of the Cardinals winning against the Royals, Phillies and Mets are slim and none, and slim just rode out of town.
The Cardinals needed to make hay against these terrible teams they were playing over the past month and instead are right back where they were a month ago.
They aren't going to get much better other than picking up Carpenter to pitch every 5th day.
Losing to the Royals tonight assured that the best the Cardinals can do is a split against a team they needed to go 5-1 against this season.
With Edmonds out, it means more Juan at the cleanup role and a weak bench if Duncan starts.
The time to 'get right' is shrinking by the game and the Cardinals are like a team trying to stomp out the lumps in carpet. Step here and another lump pops up over there.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
gah
can you hear the sucking sound?
more good news for the Cards
Brew Crew win again. Gallardo gets his first win.
Yeah, the 'pennant' race for the Cardinals
We don't play the Astros and Pirates enough times this year to get back in this thing.
Tony is putting players on the DL who don't even know they are injured. I sure would have enjoyed Edmonds PH'ing instead of Kennedy in the 9th.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
And to further brighten your evening:
Nothing of the sort.
Not even close to what was said.
We were talking about ANKIEL possibly having trade value later this season -- but we weren't sure how much value he would have.
There is NOTHING going on.
--B
So, if that be the case, Skippy wasn't called up to showcase his talents for another team but rather because of his apprently sparkling play over John Rodriguez. Yay!
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 11:14 PM EDT reply actions
exact oppoiste to what Pat said around 4pm
although it could mean someone with the Cards told them to shut up becuae it might screw things up. but what are the odds for that?
if nothing's up, is skippy up just becaue he can play center? why not put Juan in center like they did last year and have JRod play right if skippy's not trade bait? SO would still be a back up. what? does Tony want SO starting every day? that would suck. SO is best when teams don't see a lot of him. if SO's the everyday staring CF, he'll get destroyed.
skippy better be trade bait, because having SO as your every day starting CF is waving the white flag in defeat.
I believe you
As much as Bernie likes to boast 'Tony isn't my boss', I wouldn't be suprised if they weren't told to cool it on 'inside source' stuff.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 18, 2007 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
my bet would be Walt sent word
I don't know if there's any truth to that. but Walt is adamit about denying when rumors are flying around. and he said when they got Rolen it wouldn't have happend if every other team out there knew about it. the last thing Walt want to happen is the trade partner change their mind, or another team get wind of a deal and come in with a better package for the player the Cards are interested in.
I know people don't like it when you rag on Juan
For 2007, with RISP
4 for 28 = .143 with 12 RBI.
Last year, I'll grant you he hit .310 with 62 RBI and .331 with 59 RBI in 2005, but does Tony just expect Juan to miracle himself back into being able to produce with RISP?
As iffy as Scott Rolen has been in 2007, with RISP
15 for 54 = .278 with 24 RBI and 12 BBs.
Batting 4th, Rolen is hitting .191 this year. That could be part of the reason Juan gets to bat 4th in the lineup.
However, looking at Juan's stat line for 2007 with the chance to drive in runs, he's just been inept. It's like we are expecting him not to drive in the 1 thru 3 hitters if they get on base.
Speizio has been better with RISP. I'd take him batting cleanup instead of Juan.
I'm just disgusted that his inability to drive in any of those 6 runs he left out there cost the Cardinals the win tonight.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 19, 2007 12:16 AM EDT reply actions
his post game comments were a joke
he looked and sounded really depressed while he was speaking. and he was reaching for the right words to say. jim hayes also asked him three questions about his wrist being 100% healthy, and all juan would say was he's dealing with it so obviously he's still not able to hit like he is when healthy.
i know we need to give latin players some slack for not speaking, and in a lot of cases understanding the english language. heck i can't spell words half way correct most of the time. but he needs to come up with a better explination for his GIDP's than "good positioning by the other team."
what's bad for the Cards is their best bet to hit 4th, Dunk is himself in a slump right now due to his bad knee. if Dunk's healthy, and there's nothing fishy with skippy being with the club, JRod would be a perfect fit in front of Albert, and Dunk would be great hitting 4th.
i completly, Juan is NOT a clean up spot hitter. but with both Dunk & Rolen hurt and slumping, Jimmy on the DL, JRod for some reason stuck in the purgatory known as Memphis. who's their best bet? Speezer's not a clean up hitter either. LUD? fact is, Juan's probably got as good as chance any player to do OK hitting 4th.
story of the 07 Cards. starters are hurt and struggling. and the wrong replacements are with the club. so the replacement guys who are in the STL can't cut it.
see? i can't speak english either.
reds lost to the A's 8-1 if any one cares.
i'll shut up now.
I'm more hardcore..
My hatred for Juan goes off the chart.
It's not a question, with me, justifying him hitting in the 4-hole; it's a question of justifying him wearing the birds-on-the-bat PERIOD.
I never argue about Juan using numbers, because sometimes they exonerate him and sometimes they don't. My extreme stomach-ache negativity is based purely on WATCHING him "play."
No question he has baseball "talent" but he has a very poor baseball "head."
by CurtFlood on Jun 19, 2007 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Hate him or not
Duncan is slumping pretty bad. I like the improvement in his defense. I really did not expect that.
If Duncan continues to struggle with his knee and his bat look for him to do some time at Memphis.
And by that logic
Your smugness aside
Putting Juan in the #4 holes gives him the greatest opportunity to drive in runners, something he is sucking mightly at.
If Adam Kennedy can't get to play because of his career norms vs small sample sizes, why is Juan getting rewarded?
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 19, 2007 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions
kinda makes me wonder
much better to have him up with 1 on/2 out or leading off the 2nd.
question about tickets...
SRO
There used to be some really choice SRO areas on the field level right behind sections 149 & 151, but those got changed over the offseason (they added several rows of seats to 149 by removing the handicapped seating there, and then doubled up on the handicapped seating in 151) and so now the SRO areas behind home plate are pretty much toast. I haven't checked to see if there are still some designated SRO spots further toward the outfield behind the field seats...does anyone know?
Some of your best SRO bets, imho, are the stretches along the back of the left field bleachers or (even better in my opinion) the railings in the stairways going up either of the two outfield light standard towers. Those are pretty decent views for SRO.
I was listening...
Mike didnt like it much either....he was hoping for the squeeze.
Where was the sneaky bunt the Royals were'nt ready for.
And.....
It might be a reliever??... outside of Jenks and Logan things look pretty bad in the pen over there.
And maybe they want Enc, Kennedy, Welles, and ...who else? Hopes it not Mather,we need more converted first-basemen!





















