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Game 60 Open Thread: June 10, 2007, 1:15 CDT

the good weaver

wellemeyer

5-3, 3.88

1-1, 7.226

GAME TIME 1:15 CDT

If it's 12:30 in the am and you're wondering why the game thread is up already, it's because I have an appointment early and I'm headed to see the Swing take on my local Cedar Rapids Kernels. I'm really looking forward to seeing Tyler Herron pitch.

Last time we saw this younger Weaver he was sporting a Cardinal cap and jacket and crying all over his big brother who had pitched brilliantly and helped bring home his family and team a championship. How different today. Anyway, re: last night's action, there's not much to say. When Looper has it, he has it. When he doesn't, he's a disaster. There's not much middle ground with him; such is the way when you have a pitcher who lives or dies with the sinker. Oh, well. The Angels are just in a class the Cardinals cannot sniff at at this point, and I'm not sure it gets better today with Wellemeyer, just based on his previous results and the way the Angels are raking it right now. I'm sure this wisecrack has already been said 100 times since the Percival signing --- enjoy pitching in the rotation, Troy.

At this point there are no simple solutions. The trade market is non-existent right now, and this beast of a wild card system creates more buyers then sellers, giving the sellers more leverage. At some point, it's time to come up to the lick-log and say it's so. Even if this crappy division is winnable, what are the odds of them limping into the playoffs and winning it again? There are some real gains that come with just making the playoffs, just from a financial standpoint. But with the Brewers building a strong core from within, it would seem any attempt at running at another division title would be likely a last hurrah. Of course these are probably all premature musings here, but I'd prefer the Cardinals be sellers this season. There are some real needs here that need to be addressed and it's better to have leverage, versus trying to drive a dead horse to the finish line. Who they could sell and how they would go about it, I don't know. Maybe it's just a pipe dream. I'm happy that the core of this group finally came together and won a championship. Now blow the darn thing up if humanly possible and hit the reset button. The Angels did not do that the year after they won the Series, and they were miserable the following season. It took quite a bit of spending and waving good-bye to some of their heroes to get back. Ironically, the heroes they've been letting go Walt has been scooping up, with Percival being the latest. Thankfully we avoided Darin Erstad. That was a rumor I remember hearing and cringing at last winter, and the winter before that.

Do I believe 100% that that is the solution? I dunno for sure, it's actually doubtful they could unload much. Just sayin'.

  • After the game, you may want to check ESPN to watch Oregon State take on Michigan in the NCAA tourney. They were rained out today, so there's a chance RHP Mike Stutes, the Cardinals 9th round pick could be starting. He was thought to be drafted higher by many analysts and is just a junior, so then again there's a shot he'll go back to OSU.
  • Speaking of which, keep your eyes open for when Rice plays next week. They've advanced to the College World Series, and their lead-off hitter and CF is Tyler Henley, the Cards 10th round pick.

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A potential trade
It'd be interesting to know if the Rangers are giving up on Kameron Loe, who was just sent down to AAA (somehow he's got an option year remaining). He's struggled to adjust to the MLB, but he's a big sinkerball pitcher—would fit in with the team.

I wouldn't want to give up much for him since he's only so far established himself as a mediocre middle reliever. The Rangers have their middle infield locked up longterm but there aren't many interesting prospects at those positions in the upper levels of their farm system, except maybe 2B German Duran who looks like a great hitter, at least. Doug Mathis is pitching well at AA.

(Game 60, too)

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 4:25 AM EDT reply actions  

The Cardinals
should call up this Reyes kid who's been pitching well at AAA. I understand he isn't a sinkerballer, but I bet Dave and Tony will be willing to overlook that.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 10, 2007 4:42 AM EDT reply actions  

That would be too easy
Where's the fun in using one of your best five pitchers in the starting rotation?

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 4:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sellers...
I'm sure the Cardinals wouldn't hate to be sellers this season, but who can we even shuttle off? Guys like Rolen, Edmonds and Enc all make too much money and don't bring enough talent with them for any team to be willing to give up anything remotely mlb ready in terms of prospects. We could probably deal Izzy with the way he has pitched so far for a couple decent prospects, but other than that i don't see a lot of options for this team to be sellers.

The Cardinals best option is to stand pat, i know it is hard and it will make for a long year, but i would rather stay where we are than try to salvage the season by doing costly prospects-for-veterans deals that could set the organization back 4 to 5 years. Besides, our farm system is weak enough as it is, we cannot afford to start shipping more guys off for more 30+ ball players, eventually every team has to go through a youth movement.

by lopey986 on Jun 10, 2007 5:03 AM EDT reply actions  

agreed
The Cardinals simply do not have much to offer--in terms of selling parts off the major league team or prospects to land a better player.  I wish they had more tradeable parts but they don't.  Regardless of how bad the NL Central is (and it is awful), there is no way the Cards can advance in playoffs without a healthy and dominant Carpenter and probably Mulder.

It looks to be a long year and next year doesn't look much better. :-(

by nmstar on Jun 10, 2007 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

the team is in the race
they should not trade izzy. yes the team needs some help. so why not try to add a piece or 2 this year. and i believe they will still win the division. then over the off season add a couple more pieces. edmonds and juan e contracts only run through 08. then they are off the books. this team can still contend this year and if walt is smart can still be contenders for a few more years. if you can find a way to get in the playoffs anything can happen. remember 06
HURRY BACK CARP AND MULDER

by LaRussa4President on Jun 10, 2007 6:00 AM EDT reply actions  

blow up...
... isn't possible, nor advisable. Rolen, Pujols, & Carpenter are the core of this team for years, and thankfully so. hopefully, we can build a good rotation with Carp and Mulder, plus Reyes, Wainwright, Hawksworth, and a spare piece or two. i think the bullpen is in decent shape as is, plus we have guys like Dove, Worrell, Kinney, etc. to plug in.

we've got one more year (after '07) of Edmonds, Enc, Eck, Mulder, & Izzy (if we pick up his option). of those, the only tradeable pieces are Enc and Izzy. Enc's salary has become pretty affordable, judging by last year's market, and he's definitely movable to a team that suffers an OF injury, but that's the only scenario which would generate a strongly positive return. Izzy could be much more valuable, but he's a 10-5 player, and he seems to have a lot of ties to the organization and the organization seems to have a lot of ties to him. it would have to be a great deal for us (and him) for him to go. Eck isn't tradeable, because he basically sucks; too many defensive errors, and not nearly enough offense to make up for it. the team is counting on Mulder for next year; we haven't got any other pieces to trade, excepting a minor deal for Wilson or something inconsequential like that. truth is, we won't get any really great prospects for anyone we've got, barring major injuries to a contending team. so there's no point in dealing; better to ride it out and hope we can make it to the postseason with the current roster.

next year, Wilson/Taguchi should be gone, and will clear up spots for Ankiel/J-Rod/Stavinhova. hopefully, Miles will also be gone if we can sign Belliard or somebody like him for a bench role at the minimum. and maybe DeJock will spring for an impact OF, and trade Enc for a servicable starting pitcher. unlikely, but that would be the hope. the money will be there for at least one big signing; it's only a question of whether they can pull the trigger, and convince a big name to come to St. Louis.

by kindred on Jun 10, 2007 6:12 AM EDT reply actions  

er...
... this is Eck's last year, not next. otherwise, yeah.

also, Enc's value is diminished somewhat by the fact that the Cubs are actively shopping J. Jones.

otherwise, yeah.

by kindred on Jun 10, 2007 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

lboros wrote just 3 days ago
"i hereby declare the offense repaired", observing that earlier threads trashing the team were premature:  "now we can say that edmonds was still out of shape, eckstein was shaking off the recurrence of his oblique strain, encarnacion was unavailable, pujols was trying to do everything by himself, and the whole team was mentally unprepared --- hung over from last season and dispirited by carpenter's injury (and, temporarily, by josh hancock's death). but in the last 30 days edmonds has regained his power stroke, eckstein has started swinging hard again, pujols has settled down, and the cardinals have been playing a real major-leaguer in right field."

We could have easily won the first game against the Angels if the bullpen had held (which it has for most of the year) and this series would be split.  But having with two losses, we are suddenly back to blowing up the team.  And if we had split the series, would there be calls to blow up the team?

It's hard to keep up with the huge mood swings on this site.  It's these kinds of drastic tunrs--from "the offense is repaired" to "blow up the team" in a period of three day--that make me wonder about the melodrama of it all--instant reaction and emotion with every up and down, instant predictions of possible success and then certain doom.  I don't know why anyone would even want to watch baseball if you let yourself be jerked around by each win and loss.  Where is the fun in that?  Maybe you should read a post after the last win before writing a post after a loss.  Perhaps we could get a little more consistency then.

by nycardfan on Jun 10, 2007 8:55 AM EDT reply actions  

i'm not lboros
and the offense is obviously not the problem...right now. it sure was a month ago. like i said, i'm just sorta musing here. there are no starting pitchers they could trade for, and if they could they'd cost an arm and a leg. just saying maybe while the offense looks good you address some needs perhaps. not saying it's a fix all, just trying to start a conversation....

by erik on Jun 10, 2007 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well,
The pitching needs help. Reyes, will re-gain his confidence and be recalled. I have a gut feeling that when he his re-called he will be told to "go get 'em kid." Laduncan will let Reyes be Reyes, and that could go either way.

 If the Cards can hold it together until July Carp will be back. Mulder  soon after. They will then be in postion to make a run at the division. They simply just need to hang around until then. Of course if they get hot down the stretch that will carry into the playoffs.

 As far as next season goes  the rotation and pen both look good. The bench could be improved with youth from the farm, and all we really need is a lead off shortstop.

 Maybe we have been spoiled, but ladies and gentlemen I live in Syracuse, We have the Orangemen. We have the Bills, and Sabres. I know sports fustration. In addition I am an  Philly Eagle fan. So you can imagine my pain. The Cards bring sweet release!

 We all need to relax and be patient.

by nybirdfan on Jun 10, 2007 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

this makes sense to me too
thanks, nybird (and others accordingly)!
From Curaçao, the friendly island in the Caribbean

by Johnny64 on Jun 10, 2007 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for your temporate response
You could have reacted defensively but instead simply explained where you were coming from in terms of starting a conversation.  I appreciate that.

As to the offense not being a problem.  I agree with that.  But, if today's musings were prompted by the last two losses, they have been a problem.  They provided only 1 run after the fourth.  Many blame Kipp for leaving the offense with only a 1 run lead.  But the offense did little over five innings to help the team.  And last night, our only real asset was Edmonds.  I think our MV3, our catchers, Encarnacion, and Eckstein have been impressive recently offensively and wouldn't want to blow them up.  I am frustrated with Kennedy and wouldn't mind a trade there.  Ironically, the person in the worst slump is Duncan and I doubt many would want to throw him overboard

As to the rotation, it's limping now because the cards didn't think far enough ahead to operate on Carp in February (when they first learned of the growth in his bone spurs) or in April (when it became obvious that it was disrupting his game).  They also delayed Moulder's surgery beyond when they should have.  We have to be patient now that they made these time-delaying and in my mind stupidly short-sighted decisions.

I also think we have real assets beyond Carp and Moulder.  Wainwright has had a good month with all quality starts  except his last one (and there he didn't implode).  The scout reports on Wainwright have been glowing--many times calling him spectacular--when he has played without injury.  He's still learning in his first year and is going to have ups and downs, but we're luckly to have someone with such, skill, confidence, and grit.   Scouts have also been complimentary to Thompson for his tough disposition and steady contributions.  He seems like a Suppan kind of guy and Suppan worked welll for us.  Looper did better at the beginning of the season than the last month.  He could be experiencing growing pains as a new starter.  Even without calling back Reyes, which I'm not sure LaRussa and Duncan want to do, we have talent to work with.  And Hawksworth is waiting in the wings.

My main worry is coaching.  I'm still not confident LaRussa and Duncan know how to work well with young pitchers and they are going to have to learn if they are going to be successful in the future.

by nycardfan on Jun 10, 2007 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

One correction
to what I wrote above.  Wainwright blew up once since the beginning of May, against LAD.  Besides that he has allowed 1 or 2 ER in each of his games (prior to his last 4 ER which didn't seem to concern him much as signal that he might be losing control of his delivery--just a hiccup, he said).

by nycardfan on Jun 10, 2007 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

off the subject
how did you tag bennet w/ the "wild turkey" nickname?
"dad, you always said that the game isn't over until the last out!"

by mono on Jun 10, 2007 10:00 AM EDT reply actions  

The "Bad Weaver"....
...only gave up 2 ERs last night in 4 innings, bring his ERA down to under 13.00 before leaving the game early with a stiffee.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Jun 10, 2007 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I heard he retired 11 in a row before he....
came out with a stiff back.  Maybe he SHOULD have taken those minor league rehab starts.....I love watching the Weaver boys pitch-they look like stick figures-all arms and legs coming at you.  

by jillsinmo on Jun 10, 2007 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Farewell Izzy, hello Troy?
I really wonder if the Percival signing isn't the first wheel in motion toward trading Isringhausen.  I've seen no hard evidence to support this, other than the common (and I think accurate) speculation that Izzy is about the only chip that might bring some value on the trade market.

It also seems to fit TLR's MO to bring in a (Capital V) Veteran like Percival if a move was in the works.  Should a trade go down, I would expect Franklin to be given the chance to close, with Percival as an insurance policy, ala Cal Eldred.

For my money, now is a perfect time to sell high on Isringhausen.  He's more healthy and effective than he has been in years.  It seems reasonable that a contending team with bullpen issues would give up some quality prospects for a veteran arm like Izzy and the chance to win now.  And at 34, it's hard to imagine Izzy maintaining this level of effectiveness much longer.

by bgodar on Jun 10, 2007 12:20 PM EDT reply actions  

To cheer everyone up...
just think if you were a Brewers fan waking up to two losses against the Rangers.  We lost against the Angels.  We have much more to be proud of!!!

by nycardfan on Jun 10, 2007 12:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Buy/ Sell
I think there are plenty of parts the Cardinals could deal...
  1. Izzy.  It seems to me many contending teams look for bullpen help in the stretch.  As bg said "He's more healthy and effective than he has been in years."
  2. Blooper.  As much as I'd hate to see him go, he is a valuable comodity, a mid to back of the rotation guy making ~$5/ year.
  3. Reyes, though if we trade him, I'm sure its at a loss for us.
  4. Edmonds.  Think Larry Walker '04.  A veteran OF still capable of gold glove defense will probably be useful to one or two contenders by mid summer.
  5. Taguchi.  I know it sounds outrageous, but I'd bet some clubs would be willing to overpay for the guy.  He still does play an average CF and is "clutch."  I'm not saying we'd get much for him, but even a low level prospect could help us.

by Zubin on Jun 10, 2007 12:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Edmonds isn't going anywhere
the Cardinals owe him more over the next 10 years than I think they've paid him to-date.

He is the only realistic protection provided to Pujols right now.  In the vein of 'Larry Walker '04' it would be the opposite.  Instead of installing a clubhouse leader, they'd be ripping this teams leader out.  Since he is the bridge between a lot of the younger guys, Rolen and TLR, I would hope Edmonds is here until he hangs them up.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Edmonds?
A good outfielder who can hit for power would be extremely expensive not to mention hard to break loose from another team.

Edmonds looks like he's heading back to his 2004 strength and ability to pull the ball.  And right now, he's one of our most reliable home run hitters.

Also, Edmonds is undoubtedly the team leader.  I think he, more than La Russa, has the ability to both fire up the team and keep them calm when things look bad.  Plus, he's been a great coach to our younger players.  It's only because of Edmonds that Wainwright was able to figure the problem with his delivery.  And he counsels young batters as well.  He expends himself for the sake of the entire team unlike any other veteran player I can think of.

The P-D repeatedly has said "as goes Edmonds, so goes the team."

Why trade a multi-golden glove outfielder who is coming back to his power hitting form and who is the clear leader of the team.  For both tangible and intangible reasons, that would be a bad trade and would waste a lot of money that could be better spent elsewhere (like right filed, second base, or shortstop).

And Taguchi is low cost and high value for how we use him.  He had an off year last year.  But has been a tremendous clutch hitter this year.  Plus he's made some great defensive plays and is flexible in how he can fill in for injured outfielders.

Izzy is also probably a good value for how excellent he has been.  Question is, how long will that last?

by nycardfan on Jun 10, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trade-able Pieces
Here are players I think are/trade-able or we should at least try to trade in the event of us becoming sellers. (in order of their potential value)
  1. Isringhausen (if Troy pitches well Izzy would seem expendable), he's in the last year of his deal with an option for next year)
  2. Looper (buyers are always looking for starting pitching.  Loop has been decent enough to be pretty valuable, only 1 year left on his contract after this year)
  3. Juan Enc (has been pretty good since he's been back, only 1 year left after this on his contract)
  4. Ryan Franklin
  5. Russ Springer
  6. David Eckstien
  7. Randy Flores
  8. Kip Wells (wouldn't bring much, but we need to get rid of him)
We have replacements for all of those players that wouldn't make the team much worse, maybe even make it better (except maybe Izzy).  Carp and Mulder come back around the deadline to replace Looper and Wells.  Percival steps in for Izzy.  J-Rod, Ankiel, Stavinoha, or Ludwick steps in for JuanEnc.  Dove, Worrell, Falkenborg, or other minor leaguers step in for Franklin and Springer (or Reyes in rotation and Wellemeyer moves back to the bullpen).  Brendan Ryan steps in for Eck.  Troy Cate steps in for Flores.

Our post-deadline team
Rotation

  1. Carp
  2. Mulder
  3. Wainwright
  4. Thompson
  5. Reyes
Bullpen
Closer: Percival
LH: TJ
LH: Cate
RH: Wellemeyer
RH: K. Jimenez
RH: Worrell
RH: Dove

C: Yadi
1b: Pujols
2b: Kennedy
3b: Rolen
SS: Ryan
LF: Dunc
CF: JEd
RF: J-Rod
Bench
C: Bennett
IF: Miles
IF: Spiezio
OF: Gooch
OF: Ludwick

Looks good to me.  I think we could get a decent haul of prospects for Izzy and Looper.  And if we package some of the other guys we could get some good deals.  We could especially get good prospects if we are willing to eat some of these guys salary (which we should be able to do).  I say go for it, if the market doesn't look favorable we can hold back and stand pat.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 10, 2007 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm assuming that is in the event the season is
lost, because that is a horrible bullpen and a rotation that has 3 pitchers with arm trouble (Carp, Mulder, Wainer), 1 pitcher who is 'average' and another on pace to lose 30 games.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

this situation is..
assuming a lot of things...Percival pitching well, Mulder and Carp coming back healthy, some of the minor league relievers being competant when given an actual chance.  However, I do not think that roster is much worse than our current one.  Reyes would not lose 30 games.  He had bad luck and is a much better pitcher than half of our current rotation.  (Kip Wells on the other hand could lose 30 if we keep throwing him out there)

Also since when does Wainers have arm trouble?

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 10, 2007 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't panic!
6 of our next 9 games are against the Royals.  
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 1:22 PM EDT reply actions  

over/under
number of walks Welle allows: 6

by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2007 2:00 PM EDT reply actions  

The Cards
need to trade Izzy, Franklin, T. Johnson, and Springer before all there ERAs ballon up to 4.  Could actual get something for Izzy considering he has the overrated closer tag.  (maybe Izzy and prospect for Carmona but Carmona would be too expensive right now, but he is a GB pitcher)

BTW how the hell do La Duncan like Springer he's 10x worse than Reyes when it comez to not being able to keep the ball down.

Bring up Reyes, and realize he's actually good.

Trade Looper for something before he starts to completely suck.  

Tell Milwaukee to give us Dave Bush, and see if he's not so unlucky for us.  Then tell the Twins to give us Dennys Reyes, so La Duncan can play with there shiny new toys and Reyes is the ultimate GB pitcher in which they will try to convert to Brandon Webb but won't work somehow.

Trade Eck and Enc if you can, all they are are replacement type players, who make too much in my opinion.  Then trade for Pat Burrell and money and hope a new scenery helps him, he also has been unlucky this year.

Wait and pray Rolen and Edmonds learn how to play baseball again.

Then keep thanking god that we play in the sad NL Central.

Then win World Series, come on people it's this easy.

by bigboy1234 @ Viva El Birdos on Jun 10, 2007 2:05 PM EDT reply actions  

is there a rain delay?
i'm stuck with a tony little infomercial. *gnashing teeth!*

by erik on Jun 10, 2007 2:07 PM EDT reply actions  

MLB.TV
had an interview with Eck and they said they'd be back with the Cardinals/Angels after this.

Days I have to watch on MLB.TV make me so grateful for Extra Innings.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Soooooo good of a catch
nice job, Gooch.  

Rolen and Dunc with days off.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 2:17 PM EDT reply actions  

3 flyouts
is that acceptable?

Nice D from Gooch.

by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2007 2:19 PM EDT reply actions  

This is my 1st Channel 5 broadcast
did they steal these graphics from ESPN?  Sheesh, they are almost identical in some respects.

Also, when was the last inning the Angels went 1,2,3 like that.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 2:20 PM EDT reply actions  

watching So slide into that wall
makes me wonder wtf the guy who designed Busch II was thinking.
Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jun 10, 2007 2:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Why is Welley doing so well?
It boggles my mind.  He made Vladdy-Daddy, one of the most feared hitters in baseball, look silly.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 2:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Gotta love Juan
Encarnaceeon

by bigboy1234 @ Viva El Birdos on Jun 10, 2007 2:38 PM EDT reply actions  

well done Juan
someone better get him home.  Man on 3rd, no outs . . . must score a run.

by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2007 2:39 PM EDT reply actions  

great AB
by encarnarcion (thanks for that one jay randolph)
Call up Ankiel!!

by jeff abs on Jun 10, 2007 2:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Did Juan just leg out a triple?
Ok, so where is the REAL Juan Encarnacion?
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 2:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Maybe TLR lit a fire under his ass
after he waited to run on that popup a few days ago.

by outraged on Jun 10, 2007 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

A healthy wrist?
I think we are so anti juan because we saw him at his worst with his messed up wrist, and when he came back he hadn't faced live pitching in a while..  I mean, he is a 20 HR guy, in theory.

Glad to see Miles in the lineup.  Adam Kennedy would have turned that into a double play somehow.

by cloistermaximus on Jun 10, 2007 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't buy that.
We're anti-Juan because he fails to hustle or just lacks focus a lot.  This is seen in the field, and doesn't really have to do with the wrist.

by outraged on Jun 10, 2007 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Without a doubt
He doesn't hustle or seem to care... But some clutch hits will make you forget about those things.

by cloistermaximus on Jun 10, 2007 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mike Shannon just said:
"It looks like he stuck his finger in a light-bulb socket!"

(Meaning he's got a spark.)

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

How's it look in STL? Weather Underground makes it
sound OK:

"The rain has been decreasing in intensity and coverage so what rain does fall will be light."

It's clear here in southern Indiana; they should move the game to my back yard.

by BTown Birds fan on Jun 10, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

And this is that part of the game...
Where Wellemeyer completely loses his shit.

Damnit.

by cloistermaximus on Jun 10, 2007 2:51 PM EDT reply actions  

1 out away
from diffusing this situation.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fudge
Drops in a single, run scores.

Gotta get Cabrera.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Figgins scores from 1st?
How does that even happen?  He did it without even a throw.  Sheesh.  Wake up, Juan.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Figgins
is the same guy who has like 5 stolen bases this series already. But I'm sure thats Juan's fault as well.

by FunkeeC on Jun 10, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sharp ball hit to the wall
down the line and there isn't even a contested throw to be cut off and Figgins scores.

I don't care if he's Lou Brock, that shouldn't happen.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate the AL
damnit Wellemeyer get it together.

by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2007 2:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Sigh
Now we know how the cards stand up to a good team.

by FunkeeC on Jun 10, 2007 3:00 PM EDT reply actions  

the hottest team
in the big leagues, not "a good team".  Even the Angels aren't THIS good.
Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jun 10, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well
they are probably the best team the cards have played in a while if not all year. And im out here in Orange County, so i realize the angels have holes. And as im writing this, Pujols ties the game up.

by FunkeeC on Jun 10, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh...
26-34 in a couple hours....

by Petkovsek on Jun 10, 2007 3:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Albert Pujols is officially 'back'
June is going to be a good month for El Hombre.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 3:06 PM EDT reply actions  

BERT
!!!!!!

by Petkovsek on Jun 10, 2007 3:07 PM EDT reply actions  

We may have the worst pitching staff in the majors
but we still have the best hitter in baseball.  Thanks Albert.  May we have another?

by cloistermaximus on Jun 10, 2007 3:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Well
With the recent developments in science, we may be able to clone Albert in a few years..... So my only question is... how good is his arm?

by TNFan32 on Jun 10, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I sort of ment another run
But I'd certianly take another Albert Pujols too.

BTW--According to gameday all of Weavers pitches in the strike zone are up.. Seems like he might not be 100% today.

To bad we have a KC Royal cast off on the mound to counter that.

by cloistermaximus on Jun 10, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why can't we kill the Angels
they are like ants.  The more you step on coming out of the hill, the more just keep running out.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 3:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Wellemeyer on the mound
Is like droping a wet Sugar Daddy on the ground in front on the ant hill.

The Queen has been notified.  There shall be a banquet tonight!

by cloistermaximus on Jun 10, 2007 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why don't we just start drilling them
they'd get there runs anyways and it'd make for interesting television.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hello all
Haven't been here in a bit. It looks as if I haven't missed too terribly much.
Sparks of Dementia Still Demented.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Jun 10, 2007 3:20 PM EDT reply actions  

"Looks like a little beaver down there
workin' on his damn".

Moonman!

Or, if you prefer:
"The world cannot exist without tape.  Second, baseball couldn't exist without tongue depressers. he-he-he-he."

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 3:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Dam
not Damn, moran.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, game over
Angels have the lead, and the Cardinals can't score off of their releivers.  They just need to throw Darren Oliver and his 7+ ERA out there and he'll strike out the side.

by cloistermaximus on Jun 10, 2007 3:29 PM EDT reply actions  

How many BS Bloop shot singles....
have the Angels got this series? Freaking ridiculous.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 10, 2007 3:30 PM EDT reply actions  

In other news
The Cubs have put Samardzija and his 10 mil deal in the 'pen.  I could make a compelling argument that his was the worst investment in the history of baseball.  Not in magnitude obviously, but in sheer stupidity, that wins in my mind.  10 mil for a borderline supplemental-round/2nd round talent at best.  At least Matt White had talent...
Pujols < .300 (it worked for .200)

by joker24 on Jun 10, 2007 3:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Had to outbid football.
I don't know WHY they had to, but, you know, they had to.

Hopefully he'll go Rick Ankiel, flame out, and still be able to salvage a decent career as a reciever somewhere.

by lordsummer on Jun 11, 2007 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Getting Chone Figgins out
would be considered a small miracle.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was thinking the same thing
Figgins seems to be "that guy" that just gets on base against the Cardinals no matter what.

Birds will most likely lose this one, but it was nice to see that guy retired with the sacks jammed for once.  I was expecting a tripple.

by cloistermaximus on Jun 10, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bootcheck
sounds like the kind of guy we could score off of.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

You better score some runs
Off of a dude named "Bootcheck".  Come on!

by cloistermaximus on Jun 10, 2007 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Will it still be a 1 run game
when the guys that can score come up next inning?
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 3:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Guess so
Great inning by Welley there.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup
Wellemeyer's pitched well. 5:1 K:BB, 0HR over the first five.

The Reds and Indians have a serious pitching duel going in the tenth. Harang struck out ten today over seven innings. Sabathia went nine shutout innings. 0-0 in the tenth.

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hoooray!
A few more runs and let's see the pitching go into shut-down mode.

Haven't seen a curtain call in a while...

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

There goes that man again
it's amazing that I get to live to see this.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Good lord
You go on with your bad self, Albert.
Sparks of Dementia Still Demented.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Jun 10, 2007 4:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Albert's June line...
34 AB's, .324 avg, 6 HR, 12 RBI's, with an OPS of 1.307.

He's hitting a home run every 5.66 AB's.

by longhornscardinals on Jun 10, 2007 4:09 PM EDT reply actions  

34 AB's, .324 avg, 6 HR, 12 RBI's, with an OPS of
Basically a little above career norms?  OK more than a little, but not too much.
Pujols < .300 (it worked for .200)

by joker24 on Jun 10, 2007 4:11 PM EDT reply actions  

sadly,
his average is still below his career line. but i think thats coming around.

by longhornscardinals on Jun 10, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Albert hurts himself going after that ball
seems to be in decent pain.  Yuck.  Put Rolen back in, please.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 4:18 PM EDT reply actions  

D'Artagnan In
That was a pretty nasty feet-first slide into Pujols there by the Sinking Ship.

Will Shea get a pitch to the keester in his next at-bat?

Nice, nice catch by Taguchi as I was looking up this Fungoes piece noting that Flores was our worst 2006 reliever in Inherited Runs Prevented.

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 4:22 PM EDT reply actions  

felt like Wellemeyer pitched better than
5.1IP, 5ER, 2 BB, 5K's.

I guess two huge Pujols homeruns make any pitcher look a bit better.

by longhornscardinals on Jun 10, 2007 4:24 PM EDT reply actions  

4 ER
that last run wasn't earned.  It was an error and neither of the next 2 hitters did anything to move him in if he was still at 1st.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two walks, one hit batsman
One of those walked batters scored as did the hit batter. But he kept the ball in the park and got a few K's in critical situations.

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Willits Out
The ball did hit his instep—which was out of the batter's box, in the field of play.

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 4:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Can Rolen go in as a defensive replacement
next inning?  I don't want to watch Spiezio throw any more balls in the dirt.  We'll need every edge we can get to hold this lead.

by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2007 4:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Why do I feel like a guy
holding on by his fingertips on the edge of a cliff?

If we hold on to this one, I'll need a drink.  If we don't, I'll need 5.

Maybe Hombre can smack another one out next inning for some insurance.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

You walk him with
Eck and Gooch on in front?

Yeah, you're right.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two-Inning Save
For Isringhausen today? He hasn't pitched since Wednesday, we've got an off-day tomorrow, and Franklin's pitching the seventh...

I'd prefer the top of the lineup lifts us out of a save situation in the bottom of the inning and Cavazos get the six outs, of course.

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 4:36 PM EDT reply actions  

I do not want Cavazos to try and get 6 outs
against the Angels.  That sounds like a gopher ball bonaza waiting to happen.

by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2007 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's me hoping we score enough runs
To put us that far up out of save situation range that it could hardly matter.

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Atta Boy, kid
get yourself a glass of horse hormones.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice Work, Franklin
I think that too-close 5-6 force might've gone for two if Rolen had started it.

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 4:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Sarge Jr.
Now 0-17 against RF.

by Petkovsek on Jun 10, 2007 4:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Lidge is going back into the closers role
for the 'Stros.  How long till we can break him again?
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 4:45 PM EDT reply actions  

This Reds vs. Indians game
Is bordering on fantasy now.. 12th inning, 0-0. Wow

by cloistermaximus on Jun 10, 2007 4:45 PM EDT reply actions  

cmon pujols,
pad those stats and pad that lead.

by longhornscardinals on Jun 10, 2007 4:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Do you walk him?
I would. Even if it means loading the bases with no outs.

by cloistermaximus on Jun 10, 2007 4:51 PM EDT reply actions  

If Pujols hits a HR
this would be the Hyundai Long Drive Inning...

...except we aren't on FSN.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 4:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Pujols was a little too amped up
there, swung at a pitch he normally wouldn't.

That's alright, Jimmy is going to crush one.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or not.
Still doesn't have that opposite field power back yet.

Now Speezer will pop out helplessly.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

See what I did there...
...worked well.

Happy Sunday everybody!

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

that was
a masterpiece.  Well done!
Don't Panic!!!

by SleepyCA on Jun 10, 2007 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

from now on, be negative.
you called homers for pujols and edmonds, they got out.

you call an out for speez, and he homers.

by longhornscardinals on Jun 10, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

spiez!
Man, he looked awful throughout that at-bat, but I'll take it.

by DanUpBaby on Jun 10, 2007 4:58 PM EDT reply actions  

He deserves
To be covered in kisses by the mrs.!

by cloistermaximus on Jun 10, 2007 4:59 PM EDT reply actions  

it must be sunday
just checking in everyone. no game on DTV EI.

i wish everyday was sunday.

The 2007 St.Louis Cardinals. Not Your Father's 04-05 Cardinals. And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Jun 10, 2007 5:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow
Nice job, Speezer.
Sparks of Dementia Still Demented.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Jun 10, 2007 5:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Best move of the day
Defensive Replacement: Scott Rolen, 3B, replace Scott Speizio.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 5:02 PM EDT reply actions  

all hail the amazing red imperial!!
Just remember -- if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

by RosevilleRedbird on Jun 10, 2007 5:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Jay Randolph just called the straightest of
straight fastballs from Franklin to Hillenbrand a curveball.

by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2007 5:04 PM EDT reply actions  

What was with the Dr. Seuss?
"That's where the Cardinals made their hay, as they say, and that one will be in for a play".

He's a modern day poet and he didn't even know it.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds more like Adam Sandler
Another good inning from Ryan Franklin.

Two innings pitched today... Conspiracy theorists, start your engines—they're stretching out Franklin!

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clarification
 For those who haven't seen Happy Gilmore...

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

That 5-9 score looks great
If we hang on to this, we'll still have lost the series... But in spite of the final scores, I thought we hung around with a very good team pretty well. We had a good shot to win game 1 until Hallion started squeezing TJ.

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

The win and the offense coming alive
bodes well for going into this stretch of 6 of 9 against the Royals.

Let's win 7 of 10!

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

That would be nice
Especially with the Brewers playing a tough stretch of opponents.

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chris Duncan has the biggest wad of
chew I've ever seen.  That is such a disgusting habit.

But I still love his bat (despite the strikeout).

by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2007 5:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Uh-oh
Izzy, buckle down.
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 5:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Nice D by Miles
That last one was a pretty well hit ball.

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sweet
I was figuring 1 out of 3 against these guys and was starting to get a little nervous after the first 2 games.

Anyway, I'll take it and welcome the Royals series (although I'm not all that comfortable with them either).

Sundays are good.

by Big Red on Jun 10, 2007 5:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I think we....
out-homered them about 8 to 2 in the series. The Angels are certainly a better team right now but boy they got a ton of bloop/groundball singles.

by AL on Jun 10, 2007 5:33 PM EDT reply actions  

An absurd amount of bloop hits/singles
I'd really like to know what their batting average was with BABIP, it had to be amazingly high. Everything they hit found a hole. I, for one, was damn happy with the way the Cardinals played this series. We should've won 2 out of 3.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jun 10, 2007 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mike Stutes
Unfortunately, he didn't end up pitching in the Oregon State game today.

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 5:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Man, those rotoworld news blips
are brutal towards the Cards.  Who writes them, Cubs fans?
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 7:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Aaron Gleeman writes the AL ones
and I think it may be Tim Dierkes (a Cubs fan) who writes the NL ones.

by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2007 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

rotoworld
is known for being pretty rude at times...

by Petkovsek on Jun 10, 2007 8:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Lilly just got ejected in
the first inning of the Cubs game for arguing a call.  That bullpen is gonna suffer today.

by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2007 8:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Hardcore --
you always seem to be the multimedia wizard.  Can you youtube the part of the cubs game where Lilly gets tossed and then shortly thereafter when Renteria (I think) steals second and "punches fotenot in the face.  The BCB people are all up in arms about it and I'm curious.

by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2007 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

i just started watching that game..
when lilly got tossed...it was questionable, I don't think he was trying to hit him. but when renteria went into 2nd, he was going in as hard as he could. then arm was definitely aimed straight at the 2nd baseman.

by davethebutcher on Jun 10, 2007 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clemens v. Johnson
I don't know how big of a story this has been on Sportcenter and those sort of shows, but it's pretty cool that Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens have about the same number of strikeouts now. Clemens had more career strikeouts before Johnson's game today. Johnson struck out 9 to take the lead.

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 9:38 PM EDT reply actions  

I was thinking about that too
I wonder if Clemens isn't coming back in part to try and maintain that lead.  It'll be hard as it seems Johnson has a little more left in the tank.

by azruavatar on Jun 10, 2007 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Woohoo! Atlanta takes the lead!
Three outs to go. If Texas comes back, we're alone in 2nd place 4 1/2 games back!

by BTown Birds fan on Jun 10, 2007 11:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Game!
But is it really necessary for Pie to grab his crotch before every pitch?

by outraged on Jun 10, 2007 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate that Pie's
name is pronounced "pee-ay"  It would be way cooler if it was "pi"  Felix PIE-  I thought it was the best baseball name ever until I heard the correct way to say it!

by jillsinmo on Jun 11, 2007 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good opportunity
For the Rangers there, but... Sammy Sosa would have had to deliver.

That wild pitch by Dempster looked unbelievably painful. He fell flat on his chest and his landing leg twisted up behind him.

by liam on Jun 10, 2007 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can CoCo Cordero
blow it 2 nights in a row?
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2007 11:51 PM EDT reply actions  

He sure can
Gwynn gets gunned out in the Top of the 11th inning.  Rangers are a blast away from a comeback win and putting the Cards 4.5 games back.  
Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 11, 2007 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

From the sound of it
it was crushed, too.

Rangers still have hope.  The Brewers bullpen has used it's best weapons and the Rangers have their best 3 active bats (Byrd, Young, Sosa) coming up.

Interested in pre-1990 Cardinals games on tape

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 11, 2007 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

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