Jocketty's last "splash

by farley503 on Jun 10, 2007 2:30 PM EDT Comment 27 comments

I was thinking about this the other day, and wondering...when was the last time you were actually excited about a move that the Cardinals/Jocketty made? I mean any move at all-free agent (ha!), trade, hell even an exciting draft pick...The last one I can think of being even remotely excited about was trading for Larry Walker, nearly three freakin' years ago. I may be missing something, but I don't think so. Boring rocks when you're winning 100 games a year and/or falling bass-ackwards into world series championships, but neither of those things are happening this year. When was the last time you were legitimately excited about a Cardinals' personnel move?

Smartass alert: ditching some useless sack of strikeouts or one of Duncan's noodle armed projects doesn't count. I'm talking about ACQUIRING players.

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Jocketty

Unless you are the Yankees, you can't expect to go out and acquire a spectacular player. It's not really fair to compare the two teams.
Since the beginning of 2005?
--Drafted Colby Rasmus, a high ceiling 5-tool centerfielder who draws comparisons to Beltran.
--Signing Juan Encarnacion -- not a good move in retrospect but he was a decent corner outfielder
--Okay, I admit the Larry Bigbie signing interested me, he's been similar to Juan Encarnacion in terms of production over his career.
--Ronnie Belliard was a decent move although we didn't hold onto him.
------------------
From 2002 to 2004
--Aquiring Scott Rolen for next to nothing
--We signed Chris Carpenter but no one expected him to be an ace by any means.

will write more alter

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 10, 2007 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bigbie

He was not signed as a free agent. He was part of the Ray King deal along with Aaron "TLR loves me even if I suck" Miles.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 10, 2007 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Placido Polanco

is nothing...???

BLaw.

by Dttl89 on Jun 11, 2007 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

compared to rolen?

yes. next to nothing.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Jun 11, 2007 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or perhaps..

Since we traded Danny Haren, Calero and Barton for Mulder, Jocketty has been a bit gunshy about trading for established talent?

by KeepOnRolen on Jun 10, 2007 7:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I wonder about this.

After all, I am not sure TLR / Duncan would be happy with Haren today. He is a success but he doesn't fit their mold.

by DriverZn on Jun 10, 2007 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Me too.

He sure as hell doesn't pitch to contact. His demeanor on the mound is exquisite-I had to work that word in-you really need to watch him pitch.

by jillsinmo on Jun 11, 2007 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two thoughts...

First, the level of talent in other baseball organizations is very high and has only improved over the last few years. Teams that reluctant to use stats have at least integrated some of it into their analysis. Hence, there are less and less market imperfections in terms of information to take advantage of.

Second, I think being too good at trading is actually a disadvantage. Teams that get burned by Walt are less likely to deal with him. Fool me once.... I think Lewis says the same thing about Billy Beane in Moneyball.

by Brock20 on Jun 10, 2007 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well i know he doesn't want to unload

Rasmus or Hawksworth unless he gets A LOT in return..... But I DO NOT see Jon Jay in our future, too many lefthanded bats!

Dunc (L)
Jay (switch)
Rasmus (L)
Russell (L)

Too many lefties, including Kennedy so the line up would look like this in2009 or 2010

Jay
Duncan
Pujols
Rolen
Rasmus
Molina
Kennedy (pending on wether we keep him) (hopefully not)
Kozma

I think we need to unload one of the excess lefties soon, definatly not Colby though.

By the way how is Mr. Barton doing? We got more Major league home runs from Mark Mulder than we did Barton. Still think its a questionable call by Jocketty though. IMO

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 10, 2007 8:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Barton

Barton is not the reason the Mulder deal was a horrible trade, Danny Haren who is leading the AL in ERA is. Barton and Kiko Calero just add to the frustration.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jun 10, 2007 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Barton

turns 21 this week. He's in AAA this year-that's young for that level. He may still develop into something better than league average. Haren is a stud--hindsight is 20/20.......Calero is having a bad spell right now, but he's been good for the A's in the past. And Mulder is on the disabled list---you all do realize he may not ever return to his former self-or if he does, it might not be until next year. Look at this years big deals....brought us Wells and Kennedy. Now that's working out well for us, isn't?

by jillsinmo on Jun 11, 2007 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

god he's younger than I thought,

but he's a first baseman so I can see why we traded him

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 11, 2007 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lefties

Don't get too excited about Kyle Russell now, theres a very good chance the Cards don't even sign him.

Kennedy can't even play on our current crappy team, doubt he'll be playing for us past his current contract.

By the way, you forgot Bryan Anderson our 3rd best prospect who hits lefty.

Also, since when is Jon Jay a switch hitter?

If Ankiel could ever learn to actually get on base, he might be good. Then theres B. Buckman and M. Hamilton who are good lefty hitters.

by bigboy1234 on Jun 11, 2007 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

even without Russell that is a hell of a lot of

lefties

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 11, 2007 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exciting personnel moves

Um, when was the last time you saw any exciting personnel moves in MLB that didn't involve the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets or Cubs?

The days of GMs like Jockety fleecing others via trades or astute FA signings is over. Virtualy every club has some kind of sabr/stat guy who is going to help sniff out bad trades or bargain signings. So unless you are the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets or perhaps Cubs and can afford to piss money away, I don't see many exciting deals in the near future.

I imagine this probably has something to do with the front office shift we are seeing with the Cardinals. The industry trend is to create "exciting personnel" inside the organization and only use the trade/FA market for a few key peices or to find spare parts. Eventually we'll need a front office up to this task.

by Zubin on Jun 10, 2007 8:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There's some truth to this...

...but it's also a convenient cover for the fact that Jocketty has taken almost no risk in any of the player acquisitions he's made since trading away Mulder. He's been the league's preeminent garbageman, and has found some interesting stuff, but by constantly patching up the team with spare parts, we're left with a team just like you're seeing - old and mediocre. Our championship was won largely by the fruits of the higher-risk moves he did make - Rolen, Edmonds, Wainwright and Carpenter - as well as by leaning on some finds from the garbage pile - Suppan, Weaver and Eckstein (who was non-tendered by the Angels).

Even if the days of huge deals via salary dumps are gone, there are still plenty of ways to weigh risk and reward and come out on top. But Jocketty has eschewed any type of risk at all, signing players that few others wanted for next to nothing and hoping for barely-above-replacement-level production from them. When Encarnacion, a borderline 3rd outfielder with .770 OPS as his upside, is the biggest name you can trot out, then there is a legitimate point here.

by taiko on Jun 10, 2007 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't believe

I'm agreeing with Zubin here(I keed, I keed), but he's 100% right. Not only are the days of Jocketty slipping one by someone gone, but so are the days of players wanting to play in front of the so-called "best baseball fans in America" for less money, just because it's the Cardinals. As Gene Simmons once said, "it's ALWAYS about the money, and anyone who says it isn't, is lying."
So unless ownership decides to go all Steinbrenner on us, it ain't gonna happen any time soon.

by cardsrul on Jun 10, 2007 11:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Give him some credit

Well first of all give Jocketty some credit he`s a really good GM.I would be mad if Jocketty traded away all our prospects and I think alot of you would be too.I think Jocketty has realized you cant build a consistent winning team by trading away all your prospects.Also I would have been really mad if Jocketty had spent all our money on a really crappy FA market this last offseason.I think this winter is the time to spend money there`s some good pitching on the market and some good hitters so this offseason will make or brake Jocketty in my mind.

by Calhoun on Jun 11, 2007 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

this next offseason will be a much better crop than last year and a much better gauge of the future intentions of DeWitt, Jock, et al. They have said they'll spend money when there's something decent to spend it on...we'll see. But bad as it has looked this year, I still believe they did the right things last offseason. Those Soriano and Lee contracts were ridiculous, and they were the only real meat in the bunch. I do wish they'd kept Soop, though. I think he'd be a nice anchor and calming influence for this roller-coaster bunch of converted relievers. Ah well, spilt milk...but they better have something in mind for next year.

by rockin redbird on Jun 11, 2007 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's always wait and see.

There is not enough quality to go around. That's why I think Jocketty erred by letting some of his pitchers walk. The future for this franchise is in growing their own--and they are not very good at that. Add the fact that LaDunc really doesn't like to work with non-veterans and have actually shown some inability to work with young players, dooms us to either cannabilizing our farm system or picking up scrap heap. This franchise feels old and tired and I would really like to see an infusion of new blood from top to bottom. Kansas City even knows how to grow their own-they just haven't figured out what to do with it when it arrives....

by jillsinmo on Jun 11, 2007 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with most of your post

Especially the last part, but keep in mind, this could be LaDunc last year (or two) but beyond this hopefully our young guys will get a shot. Hire Joe Girarde! (spelling?)

I''m a Jenius!

by gibbons on Jun 11, 2007 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Girardi.....

did an excellent job with a bunch of rookies getting worked into the line-up. He certainly would be a viable candidate. Maybe this is an unfair question, but Jocketty, and LaDunc have been around for awhile. Is it safe to assume they have fairly large contracts? Maybe they could go with a youth movement to save money in the management area. It's scary because I'm not real impressed with Luhnow so far--but if you never take a risk, you might as well just sit down and take your shoes off-you ain't going anywhere.

by jillsinmo on Jun 11, 2007 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why not the secret weapon?

Jose Oquendo?

Andy Kaufman lives!

by kyle man on Jun 11, 2007 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd prefer

Girardi, but only because he's shown that he knows what he's doing. If Oquendo were seriously up for the job and, in an interview or something, related how he would take the club in a new direction, I'd be all for him. Girardi already has good experience (won Manager Of The Year his first year, I believe), but I wouldn't say no to Oquendo before hearing him out.

by rockin redbird on Jun 11, 2007 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs