little pop of horrors
i have been looking at fangraphs' batted-ball data for the cardinal hitters, and one thing really jumps out: popups. the guys in the middle of the order are all getting under the ball. very quickly, here are the cardinal players' career popup rates --- ie, the percentage of their flyballs that stay on the infield --- vs their popup rates for 2007:
| 2007 | career | ratio | |
|---|---|---|---|
| rolen | 25.8 | 12.0 | 2.15 |
| edmonds | 11.1 | 5.4 | 2.11 |
| pujols | 19.4 | 15.1 | 1.28 |
just to clarify here: rolen's ratio of 2.15 to 1 means he's popping it up this year 2.15 times as often as he has over the course of his career. another way of stating it would be to say that his popup rate has increased by 115 percent . . . . . i should also disclaim that "career" is misleading, because fangraphs' batted-ball stats only go back through the 2002 season.
what could explain such dramatic increases? the immediate suspicion would be health: rolen and edmonds are both 30somethings with surgically repaired shoulders, and pujols is less than a year removed from a strained oblique that still may be bothering him a little bit. it's worth noting that david eckstein --- who missed 6 weeks with a strained oblique last year and aggravated the injury at the beginning of spring training, missing about 10 games --- also has caught the popup disease: 23.5 percent of his flyballs are staying on the infield this year, vs a career rate of 12.3 percent.
but not so fast: rolen's shoulder was so badly hurt in 2005 that he was crying out in pain when he swung, yet his popup rate actually went dramatically down that year, to 8.5 percent (the lowest percentage of his career). and last year, coming off surgery, he popped it up at his normal rate (11.9 pct, vs a career mark of 12.0 pct). maybe the shoulder is weakening over time, but can it really be that much weaker than it was in 2005? i dunno if it adds up.
an alternative explanation --- more likely, in my opinion --- is that rolen has been anxious and undisciplined at the plate this year, swinging at pitches he shouldn't. for one thing, his walk rate is appalling --- he's only got 4 unintentional walks all season, or 1 per 22 plate appearances; he's walking half as often his career rate (full career now, not just back to 2002) of one unintentional pass per 10.5 plate appearances. he's seeing only 3.38 pitches per plate appearance this year, as opposed to 4.01 p/pa from 2002 through 2006. furthermore, it's not just rolen's popup rate that's out of whack --- all his batted-ball rates are skewed:
| LD | GB | OFFB | IFFB | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2007 | 15.7 | 40.0 | 32.9 | 11.4 |
| 2002-07 | 21.8 | 33.3 | 39.5 | 5.4 |
he's not hitting it square --- the results that suggest the best wood on the ball, line drives and outfield flyballs, are both way down. he's popping it up and beating it into the ground. you put these two together --- the lack of walks and the poor ball striking --- and the strong suspicion is that he's expanding his strike zone, chasing stuff he shouldn't. i crunched some numbers real quick-like and found ---- these results are just a bit ragged, but i'll vouch for their general accuracy --- that rolen is indeed swinging at more pitches this year than last:
| total pitches |
strikes | swings | swings/ pitches |
swings/ strikes |
|
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2006 | 2320 | 1419 | 1042 | 44.9 | 73.4 |
| 2007 | 297 | 193 | 150 | 50.5 | 77.7 |
it's not a huge disparity --- he's swinging 5 percent more often. but that's roughly 1 swing a game --- once a game that he chases a ball outside the zone and screws up an at-bat, or gets himself out on a pitcher's pitch instead of waiting for a mistake. i think 1 ill-advised swing per 20 pitches might very well explain most, if not all, of the anomalies in rolen's batted-ball data this season --- and, by extension, most if not all of the difference between an all-star and a washed-up player.
it's also possible that pitchers are simply attacking rolen more aggressively, pitching him less carefully because they no longer fear him; if he's seeing more pitches over the heart of the plate, that would explain why he's swinging more often. but i think it's a plate-discipline problem. i'm thinking back to his at-bat vs ryan dempster last friday night, which i described here: he chased a slider out of the strike zone on 0-1 --- a pitch that, at best, he would have beat into the ground --- and got himself into an 0-2 hole, which then forced him to defend the plate and chase a high fastball (also out of the zone), which he popped out on. if rolen takes that 0-1 slider and gets even in the count, it's a different at-bat --- maybe a different result. maybe that swing was the proverbial 1 in 20 --- the ill-advised hack that keeps screwing him up.
if it's a matter of plate discipline, rather than health, it can be corrected; let's hope that's the case.
re edmonds, i do think it's the shoulder. it really began bothering him in 2005, and his popup rate that year took a permanent spike. jed almost never popped up before that year --- his popup rates were in the 3 to 4 percent range. if he missed a pitch, he missed by a lot; he swung right through it. but in 2005 his rate jumped to 9.2 percent and was still elevated (compared to his previous standard) last year at 6.2 percent. and this year he's popping up 11+ percent of his flyballs . . . . whether due specifically to the shoulder or more generally to aging, that's a permanent change.
another nail in the old boy's coffin . . . .
Update [2007-5-4 10:39:23 by lboros]: a further thought about rolen, which comes courtesy of ryan van bibber of Cardinals Diaspora. ryan writes: "Have you noticed that he's not hitting lefties at all since the shoulder injury? Since the infamous collision on May 10, 2005, Rolen's .245/.324/.410 versus LHP. Before that, he was .295/.436/.546 versus LHP. That, combined with Edmonds' loss of his ability to hit LHP after the 2005 season, is a big reason the Cards are sunk against even the most mediocre of lefties."
so far this season, rolen is 1 for 13 against lhp . . . .
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Isn't this
Pop-ups
I agree about Edmonds
Remember his injury is in his right shoulder - the same "lead" shoulder that gave Rolen fits at the plate the last 2 years. The problem and difference there is that Jimmy's shoulder has chronic issues - impingement, arthritis, likely rotator cuff weakness- that can only get so much better. He is likely playing through this injury because he has to. It won't get much better.
Jimmy pulls everything now - his front shoulder flies open - and he doesn't have any power when he does this. His HR at Wrigley sure benefitted from the wind, but he also kept his lead shoulder in and popped it the other way. If we start to see him do that with any regularity, his number will improve.
It's ironic
As for Jimmy, I really think it is his shoulder. I can't say that I've ever seen a player take so many 1 handed swings at pitches. Has anyone ever seen anyone whose back hand flies off the bat so frequently when he swings. Even when he manages to dump a single into left center, it's often a swing produced largely with his right hand.
I don't think he does
I guess you could say he has a cannon but his shoulder doesn't let him use it....
Last year he was fine throwing
Someone tell me I'm wrong here. It's his RIGHT SHOULDER that has had work. His left shoulder, his throwing shoulder, is fine.
It's the LEFT shoulder
We're talking about Edmonds here,
by MdRedbirdFreak on May 4, 2007 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
this is getting really confusing
i'm 100 percent certain that edmonds' bad shoulder is the right (ie, non throwing) shoulder --- it's his lead shoulder, and that explains why he can't turn on the ball and yank it over the right-field wall anymore.
with rolen, i don't know which shoulder it is --- and since he's had two collisions (in 2002 and 2005), maybe both shoulders are bad.
who's on first?
In Rolen's case, it is also his lead shoulder (i.e. the Left shoulder) that was injured in 2005.
by SmashedAtoms on May 4, 2007 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
We had this discussion last year
However, IIRC, his left shoulder was sore last year as well; I swear I remember it was bothering him when he was in Chicago playing the Cubs And, granted I have zero stats, I still think it's obvious he doesn't throw like he used to.
Re: stats on JEd's shoulder
I know exactly what play you're talking about
I think the triples are more of an indication of
well, ok, but..
found a link
by SmashedAtoms on May 4, 2007 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
JimmE
Uh - all those reports say RIGHT SHOULDER
roto times
Jim Edmonds hopes to make his spring debut on Wednesday, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. He's still rehabbing from December surgery on his left (throwing) shoulder.
Ew
This would have been awful though, from your posted link --
November 12, 2003
The Cardinals are reportedly peddling Jim Edmonds at this week's GM meetings in Arizona. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that one scenario has Edmonds going to the Dodgers in a deal that could include Odalis Perez and Guillermo Mota.
by sgfcards on May 4, 2007 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
any thoughts
good observation
there's got to be some explanation for his sudden loss of patience at the plate; maybe this is it.
McRae - Bring back the alcoholic!
Of course, they are older and less talented now, and I think Mitchell is with the Nats, who aren't exactly known for being sluggers... hmm... maybe not such a good idea.
But seriously, McRae can't take at bats for them, but is he doing anything to work on this undisciplined behavior at the plate??
by sgfcards on May 4, 2007 9:50 AM EDT reply actions
I've been kinda wondering
Waiting....
Just part of the Problem
I might add that Duncan doesn't seem to have the same approach as the others. I don't know if he's ignoring McCray and going with what Mac told him this off season...but he looks like he makes a point of not swinging at the pitch low and outside. I'm not saying he's channeling Barry Bonds, but he's ahead of the rest.
I really think a change of the hitting coach is in order. I played softball with Gary Ward, so I know he isn't doing anything.
(I might add for an old man he hits the ball hard...for anyone he hits the ball hard.)
Isn't it possible
I supported
The issue is that the Cards have never changed the lineup to reflect that Edmonds is a diminished player and this is a change that must happen. Edmonds hitting in the 6 or 7 hole is fine. Edmonds hitting 2nd or 5th or 4th is not.
Now the question before the Cardinals is clear:
Where do they look to add the thrid major offensive bat for their lineup. If Edmonds hitting well is the differnce between a playoff team and a sub-.500 club as Larry has suguested recently (and btw I agree with this logic. Edmonds at his best was the 2nd best hitter on the team behind Albert), then the Cards must find a way between now and 2008 to add a major offensive player to the mix.
Duncan will help; it is always good for an organization to produce someone like Duncan (a young Bernitz in my view) to add power, but Duncan is not the answer to the loss of Edmonds. No matter how you arange these deck chairs, the teams offense is still sinking.
There isn't an answer for the loss of Edmonds
The real problem (and the real answer) of course is player development. If the Cardinals had something better than scrubs in the pipelinewe wouldn't be giving up outs at 4 other positions and J'Ed's decline wouldn't be such a big deal. We'd all be talking about how he just needs more time and he deserves to "retire a Cardinal."
Good point -
by Urban Pawnee on May 4, 2007 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Certianly true
Eck
Duncan
Pujols
Rolen
Soriano/ Tejada/ Jones/ Carlos Lee
Edmonds
Kenedy
Molina
I think the issue is filling the offensive shoes, not so much the defensive ones at this point.
Who would we give up?
That leaves A. Jones (I don't think we have anything the Braves would covet) and Tejada. Now, the O's could use some pitching help. But who are you going to trade to land Miguel?
Reyes, Wainwright - I doubt WJ would let them go.
Falkenbourg, Narveson - maybe they'd be interested.
I agree that the issue is offense, not defense. Chances are, though, many teams we'd potentially trade with would want Duncan to be included... which would negate the whole thing, IMO.
by SmashedAtoms on May 4, 2007 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Rolen Power Outage
Since returning from the torn labrum, Rolens AB/HR ratio has jumped from 19.8 to 25. Not only is his post-injury AB/HR out-pacing his career ratio, it's significantly higher than any single season of his career. At the same time, his AB/double rate has dropped from a career avg. of 14.8 to a post-injury rate of 11.8. He was only one double shy of his highest season total ever last year, despite somewhat fewer at bats.
This dovetails with my own anecdotal observations. A guy who used to have legitimate power is leaving more balls on the warning track. That amazing Endy Chavez catch wasn't the only time last year I saw Rolen look like (and clearly think) he got all of a pitch only to see it die on the track.
And if balls that once left the yard are becoming doubles or fly-outs, it would seem logical that outfield flies are becoming infield flies ... and so on. I just wonder if this doesn't factor into the batted ball data. While Will Carroll calls a torn labrum "baseball's most fearsome injury," he says hitters are generally able to return to their previous level. So maybe I'm pointing to a false cause. But the power numbers seem to break pretty sharply after the injury.
I hope Rolen's anemic start is solely the result of swinging at bad pitches, because that can be fixed. But I worry that it is also the result of a substantial decline in his physical abilities, and we are left with a corner infielder and "core guy" who at-best is a gap hitter with a decent average.
Rolen
He has a lot of physical problems like JimmE. He has a bad neck that flares up, and he suffers from back spasms too. We all know about his left shoulder, but he has had knee, and other leg problems. The one thing about Scott is he doesn't complain. So if he is suffering a minor injury he won't say anything about it. I hope he is not hiding an injury. Here is a link to all of Scotty's sore spots.
To simply be a complementary player...
I think Rolen will remain a valuable part of this team for years to come. But how can you build around a "core" of players with diminishing skills? I hope you're right and he hits better in warmer weather, but no matter how warm it gets I think it's clear he won't be the same hitter he was before the shoulder injury.
New batting coach
Batting coach
Walker for coach
Either that, or Deidre Pujols can text message each of the Cardinal hitters to tell them what they are doing wrong.
There needs to be some kind of change...
by sgfcards on May 4, 2007 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Deidre for batting coach
I don't know if it was an act
Walker would be...
The best batting coach would have to be Ozzie Smith. Few players improved themselves with the stick as much as he did through hard work alone.
Interesting point on Ozzie, but
as much as I like The Oz -
But ... someday Tony will ride on out of town.
LaRussa setting the table for McCrae's exit?
La Russa remains concerned about the quality of his team's offensive approach. The concern dates to the second half of last season when a lineup depleted by injuries never achieved consistency.
"I said that all April: Our at-bats aren't consistently good enough and lately our pitching has been taking a beating," La Russa said. "The way you fix it is, as long as the effort is there, is just execute better."
La Russa recalled a similarly sluggish offensive start a decade ago. "I remember in '97, our offense was slightly worse than this for the first however-many months," he said. "I remember how many games we scored two or less. By the way, '97 turned out to be kind of a (bad) year."
Can't remember if we fired a hitting coach in '97.
Not sold on LW as hitting coach
by Handsome B Wonderful on May 4, 2007 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Larry Walker
just reporting the news
Unfortunate
But, because this is going to dominate the media coverage for at least a few days, the team is going to have to deal with the fact that he was very, very drunk at the time of the accident (BAC at about twice the legal limit). And that he had about 9 grams of weed in the car with him. And that, in his intoxicated state and with those drugs, he was on his way to meet other members of the team.
Not saying it's fair, or justified; just that the team is going to have to deal with this stuff
how pitchers approach MV3
i'd like to see if there's any difference in how pitchers have been approaching jim, scott and bert. the obvious answer would be that they're just being aggressisve; exploiting the fact that none of the 3 are seeing/hitting the ball well. who knows though, maybe they've picked up on something?
i'm convinced edmonds needs contacts or something. i guess 20/20 vision doesn't help much when you're pulling your head out of most of your at bats though.
regardless, i like the the larry walker idea. maybe he could just hop out of retirement and play RF for us too. i'd be extremely surprised if he did worse than the current OF.
by Vince Coleman Firecrackers on May 4, 2007 11:52 AM EDT reply actions
Not just legally drunk
NO SEAT BELT???
And the point would have been?
The seatbelt would have done nothing when he slammed headlong into the back of a towtruck at 65mph.
by Hardcore Legend on May 4, 2007 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It's about the recklessness
Even so, in my opinion a person has every right to be shocked at Hancock's failure to wear a seatbelt. That's reckless.
But driving drunk, while on his cell phone, while evidentally not looking at the road to verify whether any large, heavy, illuminated stationary objects were in his path probably constituted larger transgressions.
Glad that...
He must have one hell of a rig. Imagine sitting in your stopped truck without wearing a seat belt(I'm assuming) and getting slammed by an SUV going 68 mph... And he apparently didn't get a scratch on him.
good god....
like many have said, it doesn't make things any less tragic. however, it does offer explanations.
more importantly for me, it gives me pause and some incentive for introspection. i've been guilty of such stupidity in my life as well. doesn't need to ever happen again.
rip josh. you are missed, amigo.
sorry...
by busch league on May 4, 2007 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Lesson learned...
I remember my head touching the windshield, and my legs bouncing and hitting under the steering wheel. The next thing I remember was the smell of blood. I checked my head really quickly, and there was nothing. Then I felt the cold stream running down my leg.
I walked away with a small cut on my shin, because I was wearing my selt belt. But for that seat belt, I don't even want to think about it.
The reason I say that it was good is because it taught me that I didn't want to be in the situation again, so I learned to ALWAYS, ALWAYS wear the seat belt. Even if you are going three blocks, wear it.
The thought of the sound of the car wrapping itself around the tree still makes me sick to my stomach. I cannot listen to Once by Pearl Jam because it was playing when I did it.
I think
I hope that through this loss we can all reevaluate bad decisions that we have made or continue to make and learn something from them. I know that will reevaluate my bad decisions. Otherwise his loss will be for naught. I think that anyone's life deserves more than that. If even one person learns something from this his death can turn out to be a positive in the long run.
Edmonds pop ups
Having your hands lower (as I learned in Little League) will cause you to pop up. Get your hands higher so you can get on top of the ball.
by Hardcore Legend on May 4, 2007 12:35 PM EDT reply actions
Carlos Zambrano
If he were hurt
If he's not...
he didn't look hurt last week.
by brock on May 4, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe it's us
Zambrano vs. Everyone Else: 30.1 IP, 25 ER*
* through three innings today
Wow
Yeah, I remember all the Chicago analysts opining
You left out the part...
Just more plate (in)discipline.
how does everyone think wainwright is going..
its going to stop
by stlcardinalsfang on May 4, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
struggling with this...
no real logic behind it, but i'm trotting him out there tonight.
First day of the rest of the season
Step into the breach for us again, Adam.....
Chan Ho Park...
Is Carp really going to pitch on Tuesday?
he just got
Love the new sig, Alx
Sometimes I wish I could get off the bandwagon -
Speaking of Cepeda, how many other 69 year-olds do you know that our out trolling around with a cornucopia of controlled substances, enjoying YA YA time? 39? Yes. 49? Once in a while. 69? That's gotta be some kind of record.



















