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Around SBN: 2012 Africa Cup Of Nations Final

all's wells . . .

let's get the important news out of the way first: it don't look so good for carpenter's elbow. as one poster put it in a recent thread, the elbow doesn't swell up for no reason. ever hopeful, the organization is now latching on to the fact that the swelling is behind the elbow, rather than directly on the joint, as some sort of positive sign. more encouraging is the fact that carpenter has yet to report pain while throwing; he reportedly threw with full velocity in his saturday side session and had decent command of his pitches, something that wouldn't be possible if the ligament had torn.

whatever's ailing him, it's more serious than a mere blip. but it's not necessarily --- not based on current information, anyway --- the end of his, and the cardinals', season. might be that he misses a month or two; could the cardinals survive that? in this division, maybe so.

assuming carpenter will be out for at least two more starts, who takes his place in the rotation? it has been suggested that blake hawksworth might get the call; he threw 5 shutout innings vs the cardinals in the march 30 exhibition at memphis; couple that with his 6 spring training innings in the major-league camp (2 runs allowed) and he had a spring era of 1.64 vs big-league competition --- but he only struck out 2 players, which suggests he might have a bit left to learn. although he is 24 years old, hawksworth has only thrown 80 innings above class A, and zero above double A (not counting spring training); his numbers were good but not dominating last season. seems premature to throw him in there against a major-league lineup.

if not him, then who? options:

  • narveson, keisler, or ginter: all have a smattering of big-league experience; all might manage to beat replacement-level performance (ie, post an era of about 5.00), but i don't think any is likely to do significantly better than that. ginter did hang in there three seasons ago for 14 starts for the mets and posted a 4.64 era. however, of these three guys, only keisler would be available to fill carp's vacant slot on tuesday; ginter pitched yesterday at memphis and wouldn't be available until friday, and narveson pitched on saturday and wouldn't be available until thursday.
  • franklin or thompson: franklin, the most logical choice, appears to be the only player la russa trusts to protect a lead in the 8th inning; he's the main setup man, hence out of the running. that leaves thompson, who's off to a slow start but still probably is a better option (certainly no worse) than narveson, keisler, or ginter. there's plenty of bullpen depth at triple A to cover thompson's defection, should he move to the rotation --- falkenborg and jimenez both have 2+ years of triple A experience (the former also has 30+ innings in the big leagues), and either can probably take over a middle-relief job without much (if any) of a step down. unless tony/dave are still holding out hope that thompson can pitch himself into the setup role --- a dubious proposition, imho --- he's the guy i'd go to first.
it's a bit ironic that carpenter has the worst performance by a cardinal starter this year; four of the other five outings were "quality starts" by the official definition, and two of those (by wainwright and wells this weekend) were extremely strong. i charted wells' yesterday (he's my designated guy for the pitch-by-pitch project) and came away impressed, but not necessarily blown away. the nice thing about wells is that his stuff is so good he can get away with mistakes; the bad thing is that he makes a lot of mistakes. all game long he was missing molina's target, at times by a mile --- yadi would set up inside, and the pitch would be a foot off the outside edge; he'd be low in his crouch and tapping the ground with his glove, and the pitch would sail in nipple-high. although he got better as the game progressed, he was still missing plenty of targets even in the 6th and 7th innings. the astros were never able to punish him for those miscues; on the contrary, his errantness seemed to keep the astros off balance, keep them guessing. i think it worked in his favor. 3 of his 7 strikeouts came on pitches outside the zone, including two that should have been ball 4. it remains to be seen whether wells' stuff is so nasty that he can consistently get away with that type of imprecision; it's possible he's that good, and let's all hope so.

he got off to a very shaky start ---- 19 balls in 36 pitches over the first two innings --- but settled right in after the cards went up 3-0, hitting the strike zone for 38 of his final 54 pitches. put another way, he threw more balls in the first 2 innings than he did in the last 5 innings combined. his fastball was consistently 93-94 mph with movement; the astros' best strategy against it was to take, as he missed the strike zone with it nearly half the time (43 percent). wells threw 28 fastballs for strikes, and the astros only put 6 of those pitches into play --- only 1 of which left the infield, ausmus' bloop hit in the 2d inning.

but his best pitch yesterday was the slider, which was strike three on 4 of wells' 7 ks; the astros chased it out of the zone half a dozen times. it comes in hard, 84 to 87 mph, and breaks sharp and late; must be very difficult to square up. the astros swung at that pitch 14 times and only put it into play 4 times, all for outs; their swings were more likely to result in a miss (5 times) than a ball in play (4).

can't end the post without a nod to Hardcore, who predicted albert's big day yesterday morning. for his career, pujols is now 10 for 19 on easter with 5 hr, 10 rbi.

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narveson
I think Narveson has no options left.  So would he have to pass through waivers again to be sent back down to Memphis?  Unless he is going to stay up all year I can't see him getting up the big club until Sept.

by gonzostl on Apr 9, 2007 9:58 AM EDT reply actions  

Wells
Yes wells has great stuff.  But I don't think it remains to be seen whether he can get away with the wildness.  He's had 6 years with at least 20 starts (and 18 last year) and two teams have already given up on him.  I think hitters will eventually lay off his pitches and he'll revert to form.  He'll still be a decent pitcher but it's hard to see him becoming great with that command.

by lerwin1 on Apr 9, 2007 10:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Effectively wild...
It's not a bad thing for him to be a little wild.  He needs to get ahead in the count - if he can consistently put that first strike on the board, he could win 18 games this year.  I like his stuff.  Like I said after game 1, he's a work in progress.  

Look, Carp has great "stuff" too and sometimes he has problems with command.  I'm pretty optimistic that LaDuncan will get Wells' command on track.  

by silent_bob on Apr 9, 2007 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wells definitely...
...can get away with his wildness.  One of the big key to pitching is having a lot of movement in the zone.  I doesn't matter so much if a he misses an outside target in over the plate as long as that ball has enough action on it to make it difficult for a hitter to center on the bat.  What control is good for is pinpointing hitters weaknesses.  This really helps limit damage and is still a huge plus to have, it is just not requirement for being successful.

by BigJawnMize on Apr 9, 2007 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm
So far the Cards season shapped up how most figured, decent pitching, with an offense that will struggle at times if the big boys (Rolen and Albert) aren't hitting and the rest aren't getting getting on base.

One thing to consider when talking about who will take Carpenter's spot in the rotation. When Mulder went down last season and Reyes filled in, the result was that the Cards swapped a solid 6 to 7 inning a start pitcher for one who could consistently get through 5 innings, meaning the pen had to cover the "missing" innings. In the rotation now, Carpenter was the only starter who I felt certian could go 6 to 7 innings a start. Depending on the learning curve Wainwright may become that, depending on healt Wells may as well. Looper, as he showed the other night) tires after 80 pitches and Reyes will need to improve before loosing the tag of a 5 inning guy.

So where does this leave the pen? Last season, the increased innings burden wore out the pen. The Cards need to choose carfuly who will fill in for Carpenter to try and both leave the pen as strong as possible and to choose someone who can get 6 inning a start. Hawksworth doesn't seem like that guy. Maybe Thompson, though having two long guys in the pen (Hancock and Thompson) maybe important for awhile. I would probably go with Narveson or Keisler.

by JMedwick on Apr 9, 2007 10:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Spot start by committee
Nice thraed, LB, tank you!

I read somewhere WJ flew to Memphis Sunday morning. So maybe they're working on a spot start by committee, alternating the pitchers overthere. The guy that pitches better can stick longer, getting a second start...

OTOH, what happens to the Memphis pitching when somebody is called up? Is someone else called up from Springfield? Thanks in advance for any illustration.

From Curaçao, the friendly island in the Caribbean

by Johnny64 on Apr 9, 2007 10:07 AM EDT reply actions  

either mike parisi or chris lambert
could get called up from double A if memphis needs a starter. both guys have had at least a full season of double A ball, and parisi had a very good spring. but he has a bad hammy, and he's younger than lambert, so lambert might be 1st in line

by lboros on Apr 9, 2007 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wells and the Astros
Good observations on Wells, lboros.  I couldn't watch the game so it was interesting to note that Wells was missing the target so often.  7 innings, 1 hit, 7 K's and 1 BB would lead one to believe otherwise if they hadn't seen the game.

I couldn't help but thinking over the weekend that watching the Astros is like looking at the Cardinals in the mirror.  Decent starting pitching with one stud at the core; very questionable offense with a couple of core guys as the key (Pujols/Rolen/Edmonds vs. Berkman/Lee); less than certain bullpen (although I feel better about Izzy than Lidge at this point!).  Their lineup is anything but scary - and I'm not sure pitchers fear our lineup if they can pitch around Albert.

I was psyched with Wainwright and Wells performance over the weekend, but I think we need to see it against better offensive teams to make more confident judgment about their expected performance this year.  On that point, I did think that Wells did pretty well against the Mets, who were on fire the first week of the season.

by wildman on Apr 9, 2007 10:45 AM EDT reply actions  

We are similar in many respects
but the Astros will start the following 3 pitchers vs. the Cubs today, tomorrow, and Wednesday -- Woody Williams, Chris Sampson, and Wandy Rodriguez.  Right there is the difference between us and them.  Plus, right now you can't depend at all on their bullpen.

by chuckb on Apr 9, 2007 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow
Wow...VEB delivered right to my new cell phone...if that ain't baseball heaven, then I don't know what is. Sure, I may lose my job for being on the internet all night at work...but shit happens.  Now if I could just watch the games on my phone...  ;-)  Great stuff as always LB.  Go Cards!  
"The thousand injuries of Fortunato I had borne as I best could, but when he ventured upon insult, I vowed revenge."

by iron duke75 on Apr 9, 2007 11:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Slingbox
will allow games to be shown on your phone.
2006 World Champs! Inconceivable! You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

by BozCardsFanSF on Apr 9, 2007 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Really?
How does that work? :-)
"The thousand injuries of Fortunato I had borne as I best could, but when he ventured upon insult, I vowed revenge."

by iron duke75 on Apr 9, 2007 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

A very good question.
My brother-in-law who is much more technically proficient (and thus the antithesis of me) set his up to play on his phone.
2006 World Champs! Inconceivable! You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

by BozCardsFanSF on Apr 12, 2007 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

It scares me
that they are still relying on Paletta for diagnoses. I wouldn't trust this guy to take care of a hangnail...

by cardsrul on Apr 9, 2007 11:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Wells Yesterday...
I watched the game thanks to Extra Innings.   I noticed the Astros didn't hit anything too squarely off Wells.  Maybe the outs to right field by Berkman and Lee in the...7th?  Other than that I saw a bunch of squibbers to SS and 2B.   Pretty god job by Wells locating his pitches when he needed them.   I didn't see too many "missed locations" at all.
Bench Juan Encarnacion!

by STLCardinalsFan on Apr 9, 2007 11:56 AM EDT reply actions  

ah, you beat me to it
Keisler. hmph. i hope it's just a one time thing and wonderbrad gets a chance at the rotation.

by erik on Apr 9, 2007 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thompson
You know, I was thinking this way in Spring Training too.  I have always thought that Brad seems like he would be a good starting candidate.  However, at this point, I really don't have much belief in Thompson.  Every time the Cardinals have given him a chance to win a spot, or seize a more prominent role, he has regressed.  He came in to the season last year, expecting to be a big contributor to the bullpen, and he absolutely fell apart.  His sinker disappeared, all of his complementary pitches took a step back, and he got sent down.  When he was brought back, he was once again used in the lowest leverage roles possible, and he was fine.  This season, LaRussa basically announces that Thompson is going to be the primary setup man, and what does he do?  He pitches poorly at the end of ST, and the first week of the season, he's already pitched himself out of the late innings.  I'm sure he'll be fine once he's mopping up games again.  

Until WonderBrad can prove that he's ready to step up and seize an important role when it's available, I don't see him in the rotation, as a setup guy, or any other vital situation.  

Acquire Rocco Baldelli!

by the red baron on Apr 9, 2007 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm glad it's keisler
and not hawksworth. you can stunt a player's growth by giving him a challenge he isn't ready for. best to avoid that risk w hawksworth

by lboros on Apr 9, 2007 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good stuff on Wells
I, too, noticed that he had a hard time throwing strikes early, but once he got the lead, he was great.  That slider is a real weapon for him and the Astros have always been really vulnerable to the slider -- a lot of right-handed dead-pull hitters.  I wonder if nerves of being back in Houston may have hurt his location early, only to be calmed by the 3-0 lead.  

As for Keisler, a pretty good choice -- he's left-handed and pitched well this spring, plus he got a little pissy when he didn't make the team.  It's a good time to see if he's going be able to help us should we need him for 6 or 20 starts!  His mouth adds a little pressure to this start!

by chuckb on Apr 9, 2007 12:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Play nine innings
This MLB article goes on about how the Detroit Tiger's motto is "play nine innings".  It's on their AL champion rings I guess.

Play nine innings....play nine innings....hmmmm....where have I heard something like that before?  

by RedbirdRay on Apr 9, 2007 12:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Pirates Home Opener
is sold out, or else I would have gone, but there is literally 500 people there.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 9, 2007 1:11 PM EDT reply actions  

SI power rankings
For a good laugh, take a look at the power rankings released by SI today

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/john_donovan/04/09/power.rankings/2.html

The guy ranks the Cards at 27th... and then says "So, in a way, a 2-4 start with no quality starts is meeting expectations."

I guess Wells shouldn't have allowed that hit yesterday?

By my count we are at 4 quality starts in 6 games?

by redbird2006in on Apr 9, 2007 1:20 PM EDT reply actions  

I saw that too
That's just lazy journalism. I swear I don't even think Donovan watches baseball. Pretty pathetic actually.

Also...key members of the rotation. I'll give you Suppan was key all year and Weaver was in the playoffs. But that's it. Ponson/Regular season Weaver and Marquis are not exactly my idea of "key members of the rotation".

by themang on Apr 9, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Key Members
Yeah after Carpenter we didn't have key members of the rotation last year. It was just a prayer, hope Pujols hits three homers and by some act of god the starter only gives up less than five runs.

by stl3bagger on Apr 9, 2007 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

What a crock of shit
I bet his ass has laryngitis...  :-)
"The thousand injuries of Fortunato I had borne as I best could, but when he ventured upon insult, I vowed revenge."

by iron duke75 on Apr 9, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about
 maybe making a run at getting Mr. Kim from Colorado. He could be our spot starter and I think would be a good addition to our bullpen. Granted I wouldn't give Colorado much more than a hot dog and beer to get him but if they are willing to just dump him I think he could be a valuable player to this team.

by stl3bagger on Apr 9, 2007 1:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Just use a AAA guy for a starter
After the starts we've had, imho if we're going after anyone, it should be some kind of offense.  

by redbird2006in on Apr 9, 2007 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where's the Moonman?
Horton is a replacement-level radio guy - okay in a pinch, but you don't want to have to rely on him for long stretches.  

What's up with Shannon, and when's he coming back?

by martin on Apr 9, 2007 1:33 PM EDT reply actions  

supposedly
horton for the roadtrip, moonman afterwards.  let's hope this isn't the norm...

by gthedamned on Apr 9, 2007 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I listen to a lot of play by play
on XM radio and gameday audio.  I'd give Horton a few points above average.  The crews from KC, Pittsburg, Cleveland, Houston, Seattle, Florida, Tampa Bay....sometimes it's tough to listen to even a good game.
That's a winner!

by saveferris on Apr 9, 2007 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Horton
I listened to the second half of yesterday's game on KTRS and thought Rooney and Horton were hilarious—the segment when Rooney did his impersonations of Scully, Miller, and Carey was brilliant.

I don't get what people have against Horton, I've always liked what he has to say.

by liam on Apr 9, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like Horton too
and he and Rooney seem to be a pretty good fit together (I agree, the Miller/Scully stuff was great). I'll be happy to have Moonman back, but Horton's a good sub. They're all better than Hagin; it was a bit painful sometimes listening to him and Shannon together.

by BTown Birds fan on Apr 9, 2007 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Put me in the Pro-Horton camp
I like Horton a lot.  Naturally, you just can't replace the Moonman:

"...and he sliiiides into second with a stand up double!"

But I'll take Horton over EVERYONE else I've heard.  He's much sharper than most of the tools in the broadcast shed.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Apr 10, 2007 3:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ya gotta remember,
Mrs. Shannon is sick, so Mike could be cutting his schedule back to spend more time with her.

by cardsrul on Apr 9, 2007 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow
i had no idea the game today started at 1230, now i have something to do during class

by truemun12 on Apr 9, 2007 1:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Old Gameday Link?
Anyone know where I can get the old gameday? I need the simple one at work as I cannot install the flash software to run the new one.

by Carps on Apr 9, 2007 1:52 PM EDT reply actions  

if they don't
dl carp, could they ship hancock down?...

by sdesserman on Apr 9, 2007 3:12 PM EDT reply actions  

They can make his DL retroactive to April 2nd.
So, they may as well just put him on the DL. Plus, I think Hancock has to clear waivers.

by Carps on Apr 9, 2007 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth
I was just listening to Steve Stone on the radio here in Chicago and he said that the symptoms Carpenter's been having lead him to believe it's bone chips.

by Big Red on Apr 9, 2007 5:34 PM EDT reply actions  

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