Say goodbye to Eck

by guayzimi on Apr 2, 2007 11:44 AM EDT

The Post-Dispatch reported this morning that talks between Eckstein and the Cardinals have ceased for now.

I'm not surprised. Eck's celebrity factor is sky high right now, he'll be entering his age 33 season when the new deal starts, and he'll probably want at least three years. Scrappy players don't age that well. Has this been empirically tested? I don't know, but he has a small frame for a pro player and his arm has always been weak. The most valuable attribute he brings is a decent OBP, but as has been stated on this blog and others, because he produces few steals and XBHs, he's actually a pretty poor leadoff guy.

On the other hand, the 2007 FA shortstop classs doesn't offer much. Carlos Guillen's 4yr/$48m deal was strongly ownership-friendly (in my opinion), but I still think Eck will want 3yrs/$21m at a minimum.

The options:
A) Free agents John McDonald, Cesar Izturis, Neifi Perez, or in-house alternative Aaron Miles.
B) Picking over the roster of a loser team like the Nationals (Felipe Lopez) or Orioles (Tejada).
C) Brendan Ryan or Tyler Greene

Best case scenario: Eckstein gives us a monster discount (something like 3yrs/$15m), or Ryan has a great year and we go in that direction.
Worst case: We pay full price or more for Eck

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Comments

renteria

or maybe the braves fall off and we trade for edgar.

yeah, it's a nice dream

by Fitz on Apr 2, 2007 11:49 AM EDT reply actions

yea felipe lopez

is sweet...I hear he gets drafted in the 3rd round of fantasy drafts, so he must be awesome.

by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Apr 2, 2007 11:52 AM EDT reply actions

SS is going to continue to be a problem for

this team. I hope Ryan has a big year but I'm not sold on him yet. Aaron Miles is not a shortstop (or at least he shouldn't be). Scouts still seem enamored with Greene's tools but he was atrocious last year.

We could try and poach Aybar from the Angels since they have 2 better SS prospects following him but Stoneman is pretty stingy with his young guys.

John Rodriguez for Right Field

by azruavatar on Apr 2, 2007 11:54 AM EDT reply actions

hmmmm....

How about a combination of So/Preston to the Nats for Lopez? or maybe Ryan Franklin for Edgar Renteria?

by Fitz on Apr 2, 2007 11:57 AM EDT reply actions

Let's remember that the Nats

have no prayer of competing for 2-3 years and are 100% committed to young player development. Please, let's not begin fantasizing about reasons they might want to trade for a couple of marginal outfielders way up in their thirties.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 2, 2007 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd be for Edgar coming back

bring Ryan up in August and September when Edgar decides to start 'loafing' and they'd be a pretty nasty split. :D

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 2, 2007 12:12 PM EDT reply actions

Boy, shortstop might be a big problem....

I wouldn't mind having Eck around another year or two, but we really have to prepare for the future here. Can we pluck someone off of the Marlins? They seem to always have great prospects pushing their regulars out of the way. Or the Yankees? Do they have a good SS blocked by Jeter? They are almost worse than the Cardinals when it comes to inserting young ones into the lineup. Edgar would also be a stop-gap. He's getting up there in age; shortstops seem to decline in a hurry......

by jillsinmo on Apr 2, 2007 1:31 PM EDT reply actions

yeah

Option A scares the heck out of me.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Apr 2, 2007 1:35 PM EDT reply actions

Option D)

Convert Braden Looper into SS.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 2, 2007 1:49 PM EDT reply actions

The problem

as I see it is that we appear to be at a crossroads. Unless Brendan Ryan wows the team this year, he's not going to be a starting option, and Tyler Greene definitely needs more seasoning. That means we're stuck with either negotiating with Eckstein or trying for someone like the light-hitting John McDonald. I'm honestly not sure what the best option is right now, but I'm crossing my fingers that Ryan does well this year.

And please god, no Neifi.

The Falcoholic
The SBNation's Atlanta Falcons Blog

by Dave Choate on Apr 2, 2007 1:59 PM EDT reply actions

I really don't see an option here

It looks like Eckstein is the only palatable alternative right now. I think 3/$15M would probably be reasonable on both sides. I can't imagine Eckstein wanting to leave, and I also can't imagine anyone valuing him more than we do. While it does look to be a thin SS market, I just don't think other teams have the faith in Eck that the Cards do.

by CardFaninVA on Apr 2, 2007 2:19 PM EDT reply actions

can anybody say

A-rod? yeah, but like the cardinals would sign him for whatever insane amount he would want. still, a guy can dream

the cubs spent HOW much to be able to lose again?

by dunc4life on Apr 2, 2007 2:40 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah

I'd much rather spend our money on pitching.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Apr 2, 2007 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd love Rodriguez

but i'd rather spend the $ on outfielders.

by TICY on Apr 2, 2007 2:59 PM EDT reply actions

Good god, put A-Rod in this lineup

and you don't have to spend much $$ on outfielders.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 2, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Redbirdfreak is right

A-Rod at SS would be adding that extra outfielder, as far as the teams' runs created would be concerned. You could bat him second (He still has a sky-high steal %, which leads me to believe that he still has the speed to steal 40 bases) ahead of Albert, and that would lessen the desperate need for a leadoff hitter, as only an insane starter would want to walk some scrappy skip-type outfielder to face Albert, A-Rod and Rolen

by Valatan on Apr 3, 2007 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Forget SS. You can fill that. What about

the leadoff spot?

by sdrone on Apr 2, 2007 4:48 PM EDT reply actions

what about it?

i'm sure Adam Kennedy could do about as well there, esp. if we got an offensive upgrade in the middle of the line-up (e.g. A-Rod, Tejada, Renteria). that isn't very likely, of course. more likely is that we end up with somebody like Izturis.

oh but i would LOVE to see a middle-order punch like Dunc, Pujols, Tejada, Rolen, Edmonds. the money might even be there: subtract 9 million going to Izzy and 3 million going Eck, plus Enc and Edmonds will be off the books next year.

the FA market is fairly thin at SS, but there aren't a lot of teams which need a SS. the big spenders especially - the NY teams, LAA - are pretty much set. i don't think the Cubs could afford it. the ChiSox could make a big play, as could the BoSox or Giants. but if the Cards are willing to take the payroll to 110-115 million it could easily be done.

i still don't think A-Rod will be available. and even if he is, he may prefer to stay at 3B at this point in his career.

by kindred on Apr 2, 2007 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions

edmonds is going to be in the lineup

and off the books...nice.

satis superque

by ortic jones on Apr 2, 2007 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions

My God

Thanks, Walt. I was dreading the news of the signing of our World Series MVP, All-Star shortstop. Here's to Brendan Ryan! He's an average minor leaguer, but I'm sure he's better than crappy ol' Eckstein.

A walk is a waste of three pitches-Bob Gibson

by orlando card on Apr 2, 2007 8:23 PM EDT reply actions

well

a) witless sarcasm doesn't add much to the conversation
b) he didn't really deserve the WS MVP (not that it has any real meaning at all) since Rolen and Molina were both far more important hitters in that series
c) All-Star appearances mean less than nothing anymore (see Redman, Mark)

John Rodriguez for Right Field

by azruavatar on Apr 3, 2007 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions

Jorge Cantu

Could he play SS? He got sent down to the minors by TB to let Upton play 2nd. I know he has played 3rd. Probably not feasible to trade for him right now - he wouldn't fit well on our bench - but the guy hit .286/28/117/.497/.808 in '05 for the love of God.

by silent_bob on Apr 2, 2007 10:29 PM EDT reply actions

wow

For some reason I've always thought he was ancient, but he's only 24. The .295 OBP would look awful in our line-up though.

Check out his blog:
http://jorgecantu.mlblogs.com/

reading the players thoughts definitely adds a human element to the game.

"God is back in the National League. Matter of fact, he is staying at my house." -Joaquin Andujar

by SleepyCA on Apr 2, 2007 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Wait n' see approach

seems to be the right move to me. We gotta see how all three of Eck, Ryan and Greene perform. If Eck does well we re-sign him, Ryan does well we plug him in, Greene does well we're looking for a one-year stopgap(I don't think he's less than 1.5 years away; stopgap could always be Ryan). Plus, I like that we put guys through their contract years, max out their performance(although in Eck's case I'm not sure he could play much harder than he does).

by mateodh on Apr 2, 2007 10:31 PM EDT reply actions

Barmes?

It seems as if the Rocks are going in a different direction, I wonder how much it would take to grab Barmes?

by CardinalsfanIraq on Apr 2, 2007 11:12 PM EDT reply actions

eck

hopefully eck will be back . he is very important to the team. resign him for 2 or 3 years. most likley they can get that done for 4-5 million a year.

but lets look at this year. the cardinals need a 8th inning guy. hancock ,thompson,franklin cannot get it done. they also need a impact bat. now i know the impact bat will not come until the trade deadline if then. but there has to be a 8th inning somewhere. maybe the answer is get a starter and move looper back. but looper is going to be given every chance to be a starter.i saw felix rodriguez got released so he might be a guy that duncan could work with.

SWH

by BRINGBACKWILSON on Apr 3, 2007 5:11 AM EDT reply actions

Who was our last free agent

who we let hit the market and ten re-signed? It seems that all the guys we let hit the market end up leaving (Renteria, Suppan, Weaver, etc.). The ones we end up keeping we usually lock up before they get there, like Rolen, Edmonds, Pujols, Carp. So it would seem that the fact that they're "waiting and seeing" may be a sign that they're going to let him walk.

I hope not, but that seems to be the trend.

by CardFaninVA on Apr 3, 2007 9:04 AM EDT reply actions

Will Eckstein age well?

I tend to share guayzimi's hunch that "scrappy"-type players probably don't age well. We all know how hard Eck works to stay in shape and be competitive with the "big boys". I remember a story in the P-D in 2005 that said when Eck wasn't at the park for practice/games, he basically just sat on his couch at home and did nothing but watch TV -- he burned up so much energy at the ballpark that it was all he could do just to recharge for the next day.

Still, there's a precedent which makes me a little more comfortable w/the idea of signing Eckstein for another 2-3 years. One of Eck's top comparables at his Baseball Reference page is Phil Rizzuto, the SS of the great Yankees teams in the 40s-50s. He had a very similar game and body type to Eckstein, and looking at his stats, you'll see that his best year was his MVP age 32 season (Eck will be 32 this year) -- and he was still pretty solid over the next 3 seasons. It wasn't till he hit 36 that he finally began a rapid decline (.195/.291/.251 line in just over 300 ABs) and he was out of baseball two years later.

Given the lack of other good options (as noted above), extending Eck for another 2 or 3 seasons isn't a crazy move if the price is right.

by DCRedbird on Apr 3, 2007 12:43 PM EDT reply actions

Angels

Don't these guys have 3 or 4 stud shortstops flopping around their minor league system. I am sure that Walt keeps an eye on what they are doing. (Or maybe we pry Orlando Cabrerra away from them when one of the young studs is too good to keep down.) I like Eckstein and think they will hold onto him, but I won't be too disappointed if they don't. There are a lot of trade options out there and a few in-house guys, Cabrerra, Gonzalez, Ryan...etc who could hold down the fort for a year or two if we can't trade for a better option.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Apr 3, 2007 5:15 PM EDT reply actions