Game 13 Open Thread: April 17, 2007

by lboros on Apr 17, 2007 9:08 AM EDT in St. Louis Cardinals News

in the four at-bats that lost the game --- the sacks-jammed outs by schumaker and eckstein in the 7th, and duncan and pujols in the 9th --- the cardinals saw a total of 9 pitches. they swung at 8 of them. that's the definition of an anxious lineup: the more they struggle, the harder they try to make something happen ---- and the harder they suck. i've long been a proponent of aggressive hitting in rbi situations, but there's a difference between aggressive and undisciplined. the former means you go up there looking for a certain pitch in a certain zone and attack it when you see it, even if it's on the first pitch; the latter means you swing at anything close. let's evaluate the 8 pitches at which the cards took their hacks, beginning with the 7th inning:

schumaker I: slop (changeup?) inside, borderline strike (swing/miss)
schumaker II: slider down and in, ball (swing/miss)
schumaker III: fastball, outer half (popped up)

textbook display of the "swing at anything close" method, with results as you would expect. next victim:

eckstein I: slider/sinker inside (pulled foul)
eckstein II: slider on the hands (groundout)

this was not a terrible at-bat. eckstein frequently attacks early in the count in 2-out, rbi situations; i think he was looking for a pitch on the inner half, got one on 0-0, and yanked it down the line. he might have been fooled by it --- might have thought it was a fastball, got out in front and pulled it foul. the second pitch, the one david got out on, was snell's worst pitch of the sequence --- he appeared to hang it, but eck did nothing with it. that's a question of execution, though, not of plate discipline. i have no problem with eck swinging at either of those pitches. now to the 9th:

duncan I: junk in the dirt, ball (swing/miss)
duncan II: fastball away (popup)

duncan is now 1 for 12 in his career with the bases loaded --- and probably 12 for 12 in overeager at-bats. but let's cut him some slack; as the only cardinal regular who's hit the ball well this spring, he's entitled to fail from time to time. his fault is a common one among young sluggers --- wants too badly to be the hero. which brings us to:

pujols I: fastball high, ball (take)
pujols II: fastball on the hands (popup)

the out pitch probably was a cutter. of the four at-bats, this is the one that troubles me the most. either albert wasn't looking for an inside pitch --- in which case he shouldn't have swung --- or he was looking inside but couldn't catch up to the pitch. i think it's the latter. go back and look at the swing, if you have access to the game; it's hardly what you would call an explosive stroke. there have been whispers lately that pujols tweaked his oblique at some point this spring, hence can't apply his usual torque; the game's final swing was all arms, no torso. . . . to make things worse, the pitch probably was a ball. when we've seen albert expand his strike zone heretofore, it's usually been outside pitches that he's a sucker for; he sees a pitch he can extend his arms on and goes for it. but this was a jam job.

at the moment, it doesn't look like he has much of a clue up there.

anthony reyes doesn't have one, either, at least during the first inning; thereafter he's a decent enough pitcher. insofar as both starts came after long layoffs (8 days, in this instance), maybe he deserve a little slack, too. the pitching coach cuts some in this morning's p-d: "Maybe the layoff had an effect on him. I'm sure it wasn't good for him. Get him out there a couple times with a normal routine and we'll see how it goes."

for the 2d consecutive start, reyes' changeup betrayed him. i looked at the game and counted 26 iterations of the pitch, 14 of which missed the strike zone. the change particularly killed reyes in the at-bat that keyed the long first inning --- la roche, hitting with 2 on and 1 out. la roche could do nothing with reyes' fastball --- fouled one off, swung through another, and barely stayed alive with a foul tip on a 3d heater. but reyes interspersed those pitches with three changeups, all out of the zone --- none of them particularly close. after the foul tip, which came on a 3-2 fastball, reyes came back with a changeup right down the middle, and la roche whacked it to right field for a hit. the guy came to the plate hitting .088 and couldn't catch up with the heat; keep it simple, stupid. . . . . the bases-loaded walk to bay came on another 3-2 changeup; the subsequent 2-run single by nady came on a 3-1 change. iron bill's just got no command of that pitch right now --- and without it, he suffers.

give up on the guy if you must; his labors are frustrating to watch. but to reiterate a thought i articulated in last night's game thread: the days of building the team via free agency are over. homegrown talent will determine whether or not the cardinals remain contenders over the next 5 to 10 years. the cardinals need reyes to succeed; he's not there yet, but neither is he a proven failure. not after 108 big-league innings. somebody mentioned haren in the game thread last night, wondering how reyes compares to danny before the trade. interesting comparison:

	GS	IP	H	W	SO	HR	W-L	ERA	WHIP
haren	19	118.2	129	39	75	13	6-10	4.85	1.416
reyes	20	108.2	101	42	89	19	6-11	4.80	1.316

reyes still might amount to something.

the cardinals had no business winning the game, but it's aggravating nonetheless that they didn't convert. after the cards' sweep in pittsburgh last week, i said the cards need to take their wins however they can get them; any time they fail to cash one in, however undeserved, it stings.


gorzelanny	wainwright
1-0, 1.50	1-0, 1.98

Tweet Comment 182 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

3 quick thoughts (I was at the game).

Cards are now 0-3 when I go to a game. Opening day, game 3 against the Mets, and last night. Really boring baseball played by the Cards all 3 games. Blame me if you must.
Reyes is struggling with his off speed stuff. In innings 1 through 3, the Bucs were laughing at them - just taking pitches. They couldn't quite center the fastball, but they sure weren't fooled by Anthony at all - they took some healthy cuts.
Pujols is still not right. I've never seen bail open on breaking balls like he has this year. I was on the 3B line. His hips are flying open. He's getting fooled by breaking balls. I just don't get it. Something is wrong.

by silent_bob on Apr 17, 2007 9:28 AM EDT reply actions

Edit:

I meant "never seen him bail on breaking balls"

by silent_bob on Apr 17, 2007 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions

I'm not giving up

on Kid Reyes. Way too soon. I think people forget his questionable management the last couple years. I feel those have skewed his stats somewhat. I'm referring to last year with the "don't throw the 2-seamer in the minors, throw the 2-seamer now that you've been called up" affair. I have confidence in him. A cold start to the season and some long lay-offs plus a very small sample size means this season's data equates to bunk so far.

I was impressed with his ability to keep a lead-off triple from scoring last night. Additionally, he didn't have his best pitch working and gave up a 3 spot in the first, yet still buckled down and kept us in the game.

Also, I know we lost last night and the first inning was frustrating, but I thought it was still a good game. One run baseball, drama in the 9th, good defense (how about that play by Duncan!?)...the baseball fan in me appreciated it, even if the Cardinal fan didn't. Snell carried a one hitter for a long time. That kid's got some talent.

by RedbirdRay on Apr 17, 2007 9:40 AM EDT reply actions

I agree...

He hasn't pitched a full season in the majors yet--even though he technically isn't a rookie, he really is. Rookie pitchers are the definition of heart breakers because they are inconsistent. Reyes will have games like his world series games, games with 5 earned in 3 innings, and a whole lot in between. Everyone needs to chill, especially Larusa. They guy is a bit quirky, unique, and young. Tony needs to realize that this isn't disrespect for the game and accept that as he matures he will become less quirky, unique, and young. In turn, he will probably become a hell of a lot more consistent...

by BigJawnMize on Apr 17, 2007 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Well what to say

1. Larry is correct that building largely though the FA market is over. But, recent memory the Cards have done this twice (1996 and 2000). In stead, these Cardinals (LaRussa/ Jocketty) have been built on trades. Most of the Card's truly valuable players (Edmonds, Rolen, McGwire, Kile, Woody, Renteria), have come through trading from a decent farm system and then signing those players to contracts. The remainder (Lankford, Jordan, Morris, Albert) have come from the farm.

The real question is whether with current FA values, the practice of trading for veterans and then signing them to below market deals is gone.

In light of the above, the Cards should remain committed to Reyes, not only because other teams are building around young pitching, but many of those hallmark trades above (think Rolen for Bud Smith, McGwire for TJ, Renteria for Looper) have been built around the organization trading from their established young starters. Reyes is valuable to the organization is too many ways to just let him wither on the vine.
As for the here and now connected to the above discussion, I continue to beat the drum for another major hitter. The Cards offense is just not deep enough and diverse enough to be highly effective anymore. (I say diverse because in 2004 and 2005 I always thought the large number of free swingers in the lineup (Sanders, Renteria, Edmonds, Rolen) killed the Cards in the post season against strikeout pitchers. Those 2004 and 2005 teams desperately needed someone like Nomar who just makes contact with anything.) Until the Cards through the FA market or through a sign and trade can fill in a new major piece to this offense, the situation won't get any better. It really is that simple.

by JMedwick on Apr 17, 2007 9:43 AM EDT reply actions

What designates a free-swinger?

Are Rolen and Renteria really free-swingers?

Rolen clearly was early in his MLB career, however he seems to have become more patient since being traded to STL, averaging 92 SO's per season, including the partial year with Philly (2002) and excepting the 2005 season, which was incomplete.

Renteria averaged a little over 70 SO's per season while with the Cardinals.

What's the MLB average for K's per season, assuming a reasonable number of games played?

by player2bnamedl8r on Apr 17, 2007 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions

re trade acquisitions vs free agents

technically you are correct JMed --- mcgwire and rolen and edmonds and darryl kile and woody williams all came via trade, not via free agency. but all were in the free-agent year of their deals when acquired ---- otherwise they wouldn't have been available in trade, or at least wouldn't have been available for the flimsy talent the cards expended on them. even larry walker, though not in the last year of his deal, was available for free because the cards were willing to pick up half his contract.

in other words it was dollars, more so than talent, that the cards spent to acquire those players. and that era is over.

in any case, the trade market has normalized now. walt can't exploit other teams' ignorance, because nearly all the organizations are working off similar evaluations --- combinations of scouting and data. hence the relative inactivity on the trade front. even if braden looper turns into the next kent bottenfield, walt probably won't be able to trade him for the next jim edmonds --- because teams will see looper for what he is.

by lboros on Apr 17, 2007 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions

I think young pitching is

or will soon be, overvalued. When Gil Meche is making more than quality everyday position players, there is a market imbalance that can be exploited

by Valatan on Apr 17, 2007 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions

For the love of God!!!

Can we please end the Skip era?!?

He's like a 3rd catcher. There because you never know when you might need him.

Well I know we need a lefty bat every game.

Would we have won that game if J-Rod was sent up instead of Skip? I dont know. He might have hit into a double play and we would all be pissed at him right now. What I do know is he is the better of the two players and he would help us more than Skip.

We have too many who are lesser versions of previous role players.

Be it Wilson the poor mans E. Perez or a really poor mans Sanders. Bennett a poor mans catcher. So a poor copy of an earlier version of So. And Skip a poor man's version of a major leaguer.

As for Pujols...are we sure that Wilfredo didn't kidnap his cousin, have his face switched and is taking his place? I'm going with that.

by Harknights on Apr 17, 2007 9:48 AM EDT reply actions

Just watching his at-bats

on Gameday is a frightening experience. I can't imagine what it's like in person.

by lordsummer on Apr 17, 2007 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions

Skip's AB was ugly last night

There were 2 points in the game where I thought, "Man it'd be nice to have JRod on the bench."

The first one, Preston pinch-hit for Reyes in the 6th. That was a righty/righty matchup. P-Dogg struck out. Shocking.

Then, of course, mighty Skip's epic 3 pitch battle in the bottom of the 7th. We were down 3-1, 1 out, bases juiced. He swung and missed twice, then hit the feeble can o'corn. Skip just doesn't look ready to take big AB's at this level. You HAVE to get a run home in that situation. I'm getting ill just thinking about it.

The Buccos were in the same situation twice and did not produce. That is why the Cards were even in the game at all in the 7th.

Mediocre display of baseball last night by both teams, besides Ian Snell's pitching.

by silent_bob on Apr 17, 2007 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Wilson and Schumaker

These 2 are just not the quality of player that I expect from the organization.

I think I could strike out Wilson right now, just keep the ball away and in the dirt, he'll swing at all 3.

Skip is lost, completely lost.

Can they let Adam pinch hit?

by redbird2006in on Apr 17, 2007 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions

John Rodriguez

I think my parents and I went down to St. Louis to see JR's first couple of major league games. We were joking about being experts on his major league career. As I recall, all the man did was hit. Just glancing at his career traditional stats...the man has done nothing but hit major league pitching when given the opportunity. I know he's a little old and presumably Skip has some upside that he hasn't achieved yet, but can't we let him go find his upside in some other organization and stick J-Rod where he belongs, out there with the big club?

by lordsummer on Apr 17, 2007 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions

I guess

that would explain why he's hitting a blistering .250 in triple AAA against inferior pitching. Let's just sign him to a 5yr 25 million dollar deal. Really I'm not arguing that he could help us right now but he's not the player to bring it all back and fix the offense. He's a situational player that has excelled in the situations TLR has put him in. Skip is, well, hitting like shit and I can't dispute that but so is most everyone else. Why ride the kid so hard with him having only taken 16 AB's. He's still hitting for a higher average than APU. I don't know what to change to turn this around but J-Rod is not the answer. I would rather have him than Preston or So but who can figure out TLR.

by DJ4508 on Apr 17, 2007 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions

Preston pinch hit for Reyes in bottom 5..

not in the 6th. Sorry. I'm actually trying to get some work done WHILE I slack off.

by silent_bob on Apr 17, 2007 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions

J-Rod to Date

His numbers have slid some in the past week.

Player POS G AB R H
John Rodriguez OF 8 24 4 6

2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO
2 0 1 2 11 6 6

SB CS OBP SLG AVG OPS E
0 0 .419 .458 .250 .878 0

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Apr 17, 2007 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Reyes and the change up/fastball

I didn't see the game last night, so I apologize up front for what may be a stupid question:

But was Reyes shaking YAdi off in the 1st against LaRoche when he was throwing the change instead of the fastball he couldn't handle?

I'm wondering if it is Reyes being stubborn, or if it is a faulty game plan and pitch selection in pre-game preparation, coupled with adjustments being made.

If that is the case, I would fault Reyes with execution (throwing the change right down the pipe), but I would fault Yadi in his game-calling as well.

2006 World Champs! Inconceivable! You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

by BozCardsFanSF on Apr 17, 2007 10:05 AM EDT reply actions

This is a great question

that I'd like to know the answer to as well. As luck would have it, I've missed both of Reyes' starts and wondered about that after the last game. Great question!

by chuckb on Apr 17, 2007 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions

i don't recall seeing him

shake yadi off. i think the game plan was to feature the change vs left-handers. he threw (by my count) nearly as many changeups to left-handers (11) as fastballs (14). vs right-handers, he threw 44 fastballs to 15 changeups. . . .

if that was, in fact, the plan agreed upon pre-game, then they probably felt they needed to establish the changeup in that situation. it was still early in the game (only the 4th batter). but with hindsight, you do wonder why they didn't keep challenging la roche with heat.

by lboros on Apr 17, 2007 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions

In the interest of fairness

I have been a big Duncan-basher during the offseason for his atrocious fielding last year (WS Game 5!!). So it's only right that I give him kudos for the catch at the wall over the weekend and the diving grab last night. It's early in the season, but so far, his extra practice his paying off.

Personally, I think we got hosed on that call.

by Futility Infielder on Apr 17, 2007 10:06 AM EDT reply actions

It was a nice catch but in all fairness to

our scrubs (SoTag and P-Dub) either would have probably made that catch much less dramaticly- Well I am confident So would have anyway.

by Zubin on Apr 17, 2007 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions

Good point

I'm sure Wilson would have had it too, but it's that much easier to keep Dunc in the lineup daily if he keeps going like this.

Personally, I think we got hosed on that call.

by Futility Infielder on Apr 17, 2007 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions

I disagree - it was a great catch for anyone.

I was at the game. Duncan didn't get a late break - he made a great catch. I'm not sure that ball gets caught by Preston. He probably runs behind hit and gets it on a hop. Duncan may look laborious when he runs, but he is actually pretty fast.

One of the best catches I've seen this year.

by silent_bob on Apr 17, 2007 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions

Watching Dunc in the OF will always

make us nervous, and it's because of the way he moves prior to catching a ball, especially a ball he's got time to really get under. His body language is very busy, almost fidgety-looking as he moves around out there. He's not a guy who ever "glides." I don't think that really hurts his results, but it's a normal reaction for a fan to watch him and get the idea that he's a disaster waiting to happen.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 17, 2007 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Do you know if video of these catches

is available anywhere?

by sdrone on Apr 17, 2007 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions

stlcardinals.com - duncan catch, anyways.

by silent_bob on Apr 17, 2007 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Poo's 9th inning pop-up

Is anyone else thinking that in the past he was strong/ quick enough to muscle that pitch into something more credible than a pop-up?

To me it is clear his bat speed is down. Even looking at the homers this weekend off Milwaukee, his bat (and wrists especially) don't have the snap they did only a year ago. I think he is getting folled on change ups simply because with decreased bat speed he can't wait on the pitch as long to read it.

Has anyone sync'ed up video on 'Poo? I'd love to see a comparison of him this past week (even the sunday homers, versus his swing last year at this time.

by Zubin on Apr 17, 2007 10:11 AM EDT reply actions

i don't know how to sync up the video

but i'd like to see it, too. maybe we can get the guy from swingtraining.net to do it.

i'm with you, zubin. his swing looks slow --- at least, it did on the last AB last night. i have to wonder if it's his oblique.

by lboros on Apr 17, 2007 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions

I would

love to see something like this as well. Honestly, if he is injured, I would rather see the Cards pull him, DL him, and let him heal up right than running him out there struggling and getting his swing shredded.

by JMedwick on Apr 17, 2007 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions

Albert has hit through many injuries

The elbow, the hamstring, etc. The one injury that put him on the DL was the oblique. If it is the oblique, you'd hope he'd let the trainers know and they'd shut him down for awhile.

by silent_bob on Apr 17, 2007 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions

I still disagree

Seriously, #1 you don't struggle with changeups because your bat is slow. Regardless, Snell's slider is exactly the type of little darting slop that he struggles with for some reason and was obviously fooled on it all night. It's not really a new thing either: he does have some weaknesses as a hitter. Think Bonderman World Series 3 pitch strikeout AB. And the final AB was crap, and he is struggling no doubt, but it's just a matter of time.

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player_media.jsp?player_id=405395

Really, take a look at his 4.15.07 HR...that side shot? That's a slow bat??? That's a Ben Sheets fastball turned around in a hurry. Granted it's belt high, but that's not the issue. His bat explodes through the zone same as ever.

Pujols < .200

by joker24 on Apr 17, 2007 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions

Maybe...

...an effect of the oblique bothering him is that he he has to cheat. Like last night. Pitch looks good, starts the swing, runs in on his hands...game over.

Could be that he's starting his swing sooner in an attempt to generate adequate bat speed. He's getting fooled a lot.

youneverknow

by meat on Apr 17, 2007 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions

are last year's games availible on mlb.tv?

and is there a copyright problem? If the answers are yes and no, I could try to play around with the fancy mac video editing goodness.

by Valatan on Apr 17, 2007 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions

you can watch them

just go to "in demand" and type in the date.

I have no idea how you'd go about recording them to your hard drive and editing them. There's an option to buy them for $3.95 each but I doubt if you'd want to do that...

"God is back in the National League. Matter of fact, he is staying at my house." -Joaquin Andujar

by SleepyCA on Apr 17, 2007 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Getting them on the HD to edit is easy enough

the bigger issue is about doing the splicing and posting the results. I'm not completely sure about the legality of that. I could see it falling under fair use. But fair use is a right that's been largely eroded over recent years.

by Valatan on Apr 17, 2007 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Reyes' changeup

If I were going to give Reyes' some advice about his changeup, it would be that he needs to throw it harder. He lets up so much that the hitters can either see it coming and not swing or they have time to "double-clutch" and make good contact. His fastball-changeup speed variance is about 90-72mph but it needs to be more like 90-78mph. In theory, the harder changeup would get more swings from the hitter with softer contact. It might even make LaDuncan happy in that it would lend to a more pitch to contact approach. There has been some discussion about adding a splitter, but I think he could be just as well served to re-vamp the changeup in effect making it a slower version of the 2-seam fastball.

by lefty fan on Apr 17, 2007 10:14 AM EDT reply actions

reyes showed some toughness

settling down after the first. keeping his cool, and pitching out of two mini jams (runner on third with less than two outs)

im looking forward reyes' next start on hopefully normal rest. reyes and wrainwright in the rotation is one of my favorite subplots this season. if both work out, like lboros said, that would be great for the organization in the longterm.

wow, if albert was hitting like last april we could be running away with the division, we have pitched remarkably well.

could be worse, i guess.

by Rentboy on Apr 17, 2007 10:14 AM EDT reply actions

Thanks

Great stuff here today from everybody. I gave up on the game around the 6th to let my daughter watch a soccer match. The analysis here gives me a great feel for what happened last night. Larry's post is very insightful, and many of the comments are as well. (lefty fan: very interesting observation.)

Thanks to all.

by Youneverknow on Apr 17, 2007 10:29 AM EDT reply actions

Jason Schmidt

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2840267

Imagine if the Cardinals had signed Schmidt this offseason . . . man would the sky be falling if Carp was on the dl, Schmidt was getting an MRI, and AP was below the Mendoza line . . .

Here's to the hopeful resurection of the MV3

by SprfldCards on Apr 17, 2007 11:02 AM EDT reply actions

Juancion

Never thought I would be this excited about the prospect of getting Juancion back on the field, but given the alternatives...

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/23062F98D95473B2862572C000149399 ?OpenDocument

---------
Cardinals outfielder Juan Encarnacion is expected to play in an extended-spring training game by the end of this week and could begin his rehab assignment shortly after that, a club official said Monday. Manager Tony La Russa described Encarnacion's wrist as "making some progress" down at the Cardinals' facility in Jupiter, Fla.
---------

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Apr 17, 2007 12:10 PM EDT reply actions

I'd be shocked to see Jimmy play today

He's played 3 straight days and took a ball off the shin last night.

I could be wrong, though.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2007 12:39 PM EDT reply actions

Nope

Instead the Gooch takes Duncan's spot in left, ugh. Tony did remember Duncan's last start against a lefty, right? Right?

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Apr 17, 2007 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions

inexplicable

by DCGreg on Apr 17, 2007 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Did anyone else notice

that Pujols credited Torres w/ making a good pitch in the 9th yesterday. This is the same man who almost never credits another pitcher and I saw the same thing in the 9th that others saw -- Pujols was anxious and swung at a bad pitch or a pitch he wasn't ready for. In any case, it probably wasn't the pitch Pujols wanted and he didn't have to swing. Why would he credit Torres on something like that? To avoid questions about his oblique or more questions about him being jumpy at the plate?

Said Pujols of Torres -- "He made two good pitches against me and (Chris Duncan), the best two pitches of the night."

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/0E4EB7801616A7FE862572C00014939F ?OpenDocument

This was definitely one circumstance where the Cards lost (at least in the 9th) due to poor hitting rather than good pitching. I'll give a pass to Duncan -- he's younger and, though he should've gotten a run home, he's been our only consistently productive offensive player. Pujols should've at least seen a good pitch to hit and hit it hard.

by chuckb on Apr 17, 2007 12:54 PM EDT reply actions

i think i might like

the feisty albert better

Future Redbirds

by erik on Apr 17, 2007 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions

I know I do

by chuckb on Apr 17, 2007 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions

"Damage" from the 2-hole

The lineups

PITTSBURGH Starting Lineup --
C DUFFY CF
J WILSON SS
J BAY CF
A LAROCHE 1B
X NADY 1B
R PAULINO C
J BAUTISTA 3B
J CASTILLO 3B
T GORZELANNY P

ST. LOUIS Starting Lineup --
D ECKSTEIN SS
S TAGUCHI CF
A PUJOLS 1B
S ROLEN 3B
P WILSON LF
J EDMONDS CF
G BENNETT C
A MILES 2B
A WAINWRIGHT P

by DCGreg on Apr 17, 2007 12:56 PM EDT reply actions

Sorta

there's almost only 2 holes where potential damage might come from!

by RedbirdRay on Apr 17, 2007 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Better hope

None of the Pirates' lefthanders pull the ball tonight.

Har har.

by liam on Apr 17, 2007 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Damn your fast, snarky fingers.

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Apr 17, 2007 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions

And the Pirates

are using the oddest defensive alignment ever.

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Apr 17, 2007 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Big gap out there in right...

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Apr 17, 2007 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions

hell

that alignment actually might have helped the cards in the first.

(In case anyone cares about my half-hearted defense, what I posted was straight from the UPI feed I get. I wonder why it is they've pretty much gone out of business.)

by DCGreg on Apr 17, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions

It's...

freakin' inconceivable to me how you sit the hottest hitter in the league given this crappy Cardinal offense. Can anyone think of a way to defend this?

Acquire any Established Major League Outfielder!

by guayzimi on Apr 17, 2007 1:03 PM EDT reply actions

Terrible.

Just terrible. At this point I am watching games to see the pitchers and Chris Duncan. I guess at least I can watch Wainwright. Go...Wilson?

by ajo080s on Apr 17, 2007 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions

wagonmaker

with the way everyone has been hitting, shouldnt wainwright bat fourth?

by truemun12 on Apr 17, 2007 1:07 PM EDT reply actions

Is Kennedy going

to platoon all year? Didn't TLR claim this wouldn't be the case?

by RedbirdRay on Apr 17, 2007 1:09 PM EDT reply actions

This is LaRussa...

at his worst... The team is struggling, gotta do something! Even if doing something involves making things worse.

Here's an idea: if you're having trouble scoring runs, trot out your best lineup.

Acquire any Established Major League Outfielder!

by guayzimi on Apr 17, 2007 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Totally agree

Duncan and Kennedy and even Yadi must be in the lineup every day at least until the O gets going.

by OCCardsFan on Apr 17, 2007 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm sure

Pr2sTOn will make up for that with his BWAHAHAHHAAHA....ya, right. Ugh.

by RedbirdRay on Apr 17, 2007 1:15 PM EDT reply actions

Doh!

Jrod boots another one in right, I mean, nevermind.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Apr 17, 2007 1:15 PM EDT reply actions

Still think Wilson would've made that catch

last night?

God we need some help in RF.

by OCCardsFan on Apr 17, 2007 1:15 PM EDT reply actions

don't you think

that the reason we struggle so much against lefties might be that we bench our good hitters when going against lefties.

no excuse for sitting duncan. this season is rapidly making me very bitter.

by jojo5492 on Apr 17, 2007 1:15 PM EDT reply actions

Wow

Repeat after me everyone: 5 year rule, 5 year rule, 5 year rule. Ok, maybe I'm the only one that needs to keep repeating it.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Apr 17, 2007 1:17 PM EDT reply actions

Possibly dumb question

What is the 5 year rule?

by bailorg on Apr 17, 2007 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions

my guess is that

you give a team five years to suck without complaining after winning the world series.

satis superque

by ortic jones on Apr 17, 2007 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

you are correct sir

it's what i refer to in my sig as the "sports guy rule" because i first heard it clearly articulated by bill simmons, though i'm sure he wasn't the first to come up with it.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Apr 17, 2007 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions

well

no way we come back from this now. guess i'll spend my afternoon doing something else

by jojo5492 on Apr 17, 2007 1:22 PM EDT reply actions

thank god for double plays

i don't know where'd we be without them. whew.

satis superque

by ortic jones on Apr 17, 2007 1:22 PM EDT reply actions

The defense...

Good HEAVENS... I mean, P-Dub you expect it from, but why is he even in there? Dunc made a sweet play last night AND he's the only person who can hit. Sometimes TLR mystifies me.

Sparks of Dementia Cards, A's, and Rockies coverage by an amateur if very enthusiastic blogmistress, myself.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Apr 17, 2007 1:23 PM EDT reply actions

duh...

TLR is saving Duncan to PH for the pitcher in the 8th with the bases loaded, that way he doesn't have to use Skip.

/end sarcasm

by longhornscardinals on Apr 17, 2007 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions

stake them to a two run lead

and we're batting against a lefty? must like next-to-impossible challenges.

by longhornscardinals on Apr 17, 2007 1:23 PM EDT reply actions

boy, i haven't seen eck do anything this year

satis superque

by ortic jones on Apr 17, 2007 1:24 PM EDT reply actions

I don't kno

so far this season Yadi, Eck, and Duncan have been the 3 regulars doing their part offensivly.

by JMedwick on Apr 17, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions

i just haven't seen it.

satis superque

by ortic jones on Apr 17, 2007 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions

eck's ops is awful

not sure what you're referring to.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Apr 17, 2007 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions

what a play

god damit

by samael88 on Apr 17, 2007 1:28 PM EDT reply actions

wow, what a play.

satis superque

by ortic jones on Apr 17, 2007 1:28 PM EDT reply actions

I missed it

can someone please describe?

by DCGreg on Apr 17, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions

what

what happened, im stuck watching gameday

by truemun12 on Apr 17, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Pujols

crushed a liner up the middle where a second basemen was standing for some reason. Doubled off So.

by ajo080s on Apr 17, 2007 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Edit

Guess the runner was moving on the 3-2 pitch so the second basemen was running toward 2nd. Crud.

by ajo080s on Apr 17, 2007 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions

I believe

So was running on the 3-2 pitch and the second baseman was covering, while running to second Castillo had to dive to catch the liner and it was an easy double play.

Kinda looked like Pu might have been jammed, but he still hit it pretty hard. Looked like he was trying to put it through the hole vacated by the second baseman.

by TICY on Apr 17, 2007 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions

well that is just effing heartbreaking

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Apr 17, 2007 1:29 PM EDT reply actions

If not for the hit-and-run

pujols has a hard hit single up the middle

by TICY on Apr 17, 2007 1:29 PM EDT reply actions

Wilson takes 4 pitches in a row

strikes out... but he takes 4 in a row.

Wait, heh, I got it... none of those were low and away.

by redbird2006in on Apr 17, 2007 1:39 PM EDT reply actions

Fortunately

Fortunately, someone may not have noticed that PW can't ever lay off anything low and outside.

by madridbend on Apr 17, 2007 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Sun rises in east, world is round, class is boring

Shocker right there P-Dub.

Pujols < .200

by joker24 on Apr 17, 2007 1:40 PM EDT reply actions

For the record

P-Dumpster has now struck out in 13/34 plate appearances. That's incalculably bad.

Pujols < .200

by joker24 on Apr 17, 2007 1:48 PM EDT reply actions

Yikes...

Just got my fat lazy ass out of bed and clicked on the game in time to catch a 3 run jack.

by lopey986 on Apr 17, 2007 1:50 PM EDT reply actions

Guess I can get some work done now...

by Jonathan23 on Apr 17, 2007 1:50 PM EDT reply actions

Thank you Al Hrabosky

that limp, lifeless body that doesn't care to fight his way out of a slump just hit it real hard.

by TICY on Apr 17, 2007 1:51 PM EDT reply actions

Not enough beer in the world.

Whelp, it's my day off and I'm done with this. Guess I'll see if there is enough beer in the world.

by ajo080s on Apr 17, 2007 1:51 PM EDT reply actions

damn

what is up with wainwright today?

by lopey986 on Apr 17, 2007 1:52 PM EDT reply actions

....LaRoche...?

Eh... I can't watch this any more. I have homework to do and a frickin' long research paper to write. See y'all tomorrow.

Sparks of Dementia Cards, A's, and Rockies coverage by an amateur if very enthusiastic blogmistress, myself.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Apr 17, 2007 1:54 PM EDT reply actions

When in doubt, procrastinate

Pujols < .200

by joker24 on Apr 17, 2007 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Unfortunately

I usually procrastinate by watching baseball... now I really have to work.

Sparks of Dementia Cards, A's, and Rockies coverage by an amateur if very enthusiastic blogmistress, myself.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Apr 17, 2007 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions

It's not sunday

so this game is over.

by JMedwick on Apr 17, 2007 1:55 PM EDT reply actions

Golden vs. Step-child

Wainer hasn't had good 'stuff' in any of his starts yet this year. He's had lessor (both are impressive) minor league stats than Reyes. Yet, one can do no wrong and the other is already given up on by many.

I don't get it. Why isn't everyone ready to lynch Wainer today?

by RedbirdRay on Apr 17, 2007 1:58 PM EDT reply actions

Fantastic point

I was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately, I feel like TLR and Dunc will chalk this up to a bad day...if it were Reyes, they would send him to Memphis.

by wrv18 on Apr 17, 2007 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Wainwright is

tall and fluid. He wears his pant legs down and his hat curved perfectly. He's got baby blue eyes and is a quiet guy who wouldn't stand out but at a little people convention.

Reyes, on the other hand, is a Southern California rebel. His high socks and flat brim stand out. He listens to hard music and likes to party.

One closed out the world series with a bang, the other started it. It's a shame these guys aren't given the same opportunity to have regular starts as well as job security.

by TICY on Apr 17, 2007 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Wainwright is better.

That's all I got.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

by silent_bob on Apr 17, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Better and more humble

I'm rooting for both of them, of course, and consider the Cards very fortunate to have them.

by Don Zero on Apr 17, 2007 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Better

Arsenal. He can throw four pitches for strikes, Reyes has two. More room for error. Not as HR-prone.

Both are very good pitchers, but Wainwright's further along. I could see an argument for sending Reyes down for more seasoning, not for WW.

by liam on Apr 17, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Anyone know Bennett's Catcher's ERA

Over the last couple of years or where to find that stat? Isn't that a stat which measures the era of pitchers while he was catching? It seems like he is often the catcher in some of the more poorly pitched games. I just don't know if there is any objective data to back this up.

by OCCardsFan on Apr 17, 2007 2:06 PM EDT reply actions

5-0 hole....

so exactly how many singles does it take for us to score 5 runs to tie this thing up????

by busch league on Apr 17, 2007 2:09 PM EDT reply actions

And I thought the CUBS were bad at home!?!

Something seriously wrong here.

Anyhow, I watched Marquis pitch/hit like Superman last night ... striking guys out, slamming the ball off the wall, sliding home with another run, pitching six complete!

Sadly, that's what passed for a Cardinal Buzz for me last nite, cuz there was nothing going on at Busch.

by Urban Pawnee on Apr 17, 2007 2:11 PM EDT reply actions

Might as well see

how the team responds to this drubbing. Will they curl up and fold, or scratch and claw their way back into it?

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Apr 17, 2007 2:12 PM EDT reply actions

lead-off man on...

ecker walks. lead off man on. c'mon, boys. let's get back in this thing.

thank goodness we have our best/hottest hitter up right now in the form of baby dunc.

doh....

wait...my bad. it's so tags.

dammit.

by busch league on Apr 17, 2007 2:15 PM EDT reply actions

right on cue, so.....

he must have a comedic sense of timing.

by busch league on Apr 17, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions

it's sad

when you look at a star player's miserable at-bat and, trying to find the bright side, think "at least it took 6 pitches to get him out".

"God is back in the National League. Matter of fact, he is staying at my house." -Joaquin Andujar

by SleepyCA on Apr 17, 2007 2:18 PM EDT reply actions

That fly out by APU

was it hit well? Gameday showed it going to the wall and I was wondering if it really did.

Jimmy steps in to lead off the bottom half of the inning... with nobody on base... It could happen... just not tonight.

by Hollywood15 on Apr 17, 2007 2:21 PM EDT reply actions

Please can we get one hitter who can hit lefties

Is Eduardo Perez available, Burrell, somebody anybody? Seriously I know this kid is pretty good, but no-hit through four? We just saw him last week.

by OCCardsFan on Apr 17, 2007 2:21 PM EDT reply actions

But, as a pitcher, see it through his eyes...

he just saw them last week.

Get some hits, boys.

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Apr 17, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions

this is gonna be

a no-hitter

by lboros on Apr 17, 2007 2:26 PM EDT reply actions

worked like a charm

: )

by lboros on Apr 17, 2007 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions

thanks, man. we needed that.

maybe your next comment could be something like....

this is going to be another scoreless inning for us.

by busch league on Apr 17, 2007 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions

So far, this performance at home ...

against the Big Bad Bucs confirms my suspicions of just how lucky we were to beat them in Pittsburg last week. That series coulda been a sweep, or 2 outta 3 going the wrong way.

by Urban Pawnee on Apr 17, 2007 2:28 PM EDT reply actions

Our high-powered offense....

Second and Third nobody out. One run. Good lord! After witnessing the game last night first hand, this is driving me insane!

"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Apr 17, 2007 2:37 PM EDT reply actions

adam

how was wainwright looked today? gameday doesnt tell u much other than the basic info, obviously 4 earned runs isnt good, especially with this offense, is his command bad or what?

by truemun12 on Apr 17, 2007 2:41 PM EDT reply actions

I've been having these stranges urges

to wear Right gaurd and fight deer. hmm...

by Jonathan23 on Apr 17, 2007 2:44 PM EDT reply actions

funny

i've pretty much decided never to wear right guard again, out of spite (i'll also never buy a chevy or a tom petty CD again)

btw you can get around the ads if you use mozilla and the "mediaplayerconnectivity" extension with mplayer instead of microsoft media player. Instead of an ad you get an annoying pop-up error message.

"God is back in the National League. Matter of fact, he is staying at my house." -Joaquin Andujar

by SleepyCA on Apr 17, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions

cool

good tip. Spent the better part of 20 minutes trying to find the video of a homerun Matt Holliday hit last year; while circling the bases he's yelling "yeah bitch!" at the pitcher. A majority of those 20 minutes were rightgaurd/deer...

by Jonathan23 on Apr 17, 2007 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions

I remember that

mainly because I'm also a Rockies fan. The game you're looking for (in case you haven't found it) is September 19, 2006 (Giants vs. Rockies, Holliday hit it off Matt Cain).

Sparks of Dementia Cards, A's, and Rockies coverage by an amateur if very enthusiastic blogmistress, myself.

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Apr 17, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions

right guard

just don't forget to pitch a tent afterwards

by lopey986 on Apr 17, 2007 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions

That Jose Castillo

can do some nice 2-baggery

by TICY on Apr 17, 2007 2:48 PM EDT reply actions

Sending Schumaker to pinch hit

instead of Dunc is plain insulting.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Apr 17, 2007 2:48 PM EDT reply actions

Why on earth

Would you it Skip for Wainer? Its patently obvious that the Wagonmaker is the better choice offensively even if he's not going to pitch next inning.

Jimmy steps in to lead off the bottom half of the inning... with nobody on base... It could happen... just not tonight.

by Hollywood15 on Apr 17, 2007 2:49 PM EDT reply actions

That's supposed to be hit

not it

Jimmy steps in to lead off the bottom half of the inning... with nobody on base... It could happen... just not tonight.

by Hollywood15 on Apr 17, 2007 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions

The lineup went

Shoe-maker for Wagon-maker
Eckstein
Out-maker

by RedbirdRay on Apr 17, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Ok, it's time to begin my season..

I haven't posted since the day of Game 5 of the WS, but here we go. I decided to put 2 young starters (Reyes & Wagon Maker) in my fantasy lineup against a poor/cold offense (Pittsburg) this week. Boy, did that idea blow up.
Anyone on here remember the comments about that "Edwards" guy we had in CF against the Mets in the NLCS?
I laughted for a while on that one.

by toris34 on Apr 17, 2007 2:49 PM EDT reply actions

we

could use Edwards about now. If I recall, he hit pretty well.

by DCGreg on Apr 17, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Can we now make a defensive substitution for

Gooch?

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2007 2:53 PM EDT reply actions

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

but the only thing it's going to do is prolong or misery at the moment.

by DJ4508 on Apr 17, 2007 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Skip better now than later

I don't blame TLR for using him then. Dunc is the big bat off the bench, and even a HR would have done little at that point. Gotta use save him for a higher-leverage situation. Of course, he could have just started Dunc...

by jimstllax on Apr 17, 2007 2:55 PM EDT reply actions

At least Skip hit the ball

into fair territory? Is that improvement?

by lordsummer on Apr 17, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Why not leave Tyler in

after he got LaRoche, when you're down 5 late in the game?

See how he does against some righties, for gosh sake...

by salvomania on Apr 17, 2007 3:03 PM EDT reply actions

fun with words....

i'm SO over this taguchi experiment.

so rather than baby dunc....say it ain't SO, tony. say it ain't SO.

SO....anyone think he can hit into 3 double plays in 1 game????

it sucks to be SO-ber right now.

aristocrats or the SO-phisticats. either way, that's a damn funny joke.

i love me some of that hall & oats...say it isn't SO...it isn't SO-A-OOOO....

as my wife likes to say....he is SO not taguchi. (you have to imagine her doing the "snooty rich girl" voice.)

hurts SO good? that john (cougar) mellencamp is full of shit, man.

by busch league on Apr 17, 2007 3:04 PM EDT reply actions

The problem with this bench (among others)

is Molina. Molina is a decent enough bat off the bench, certainly better than Gooch, Kennedy and Skip. The problem is that we don't have an emergency catcher on the squad. Without that, Molina can rarely pinchhit for anyone not named Gary Bennett.

So, today, the bench consists of:

Spiezio - S
Duncan - L
Skip - L
Kennedy - L

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2007 3:06 PM EDT reply actions

You are

really Preston it.

If So gets a Looper over the infield, it would give us a Reyes of hope. I mean the offense will wax and Wain,right? The game just keeps Rolen along.

by RedbirdRay on Apr 17, 2007 3:07 PM EDT reply actions

I wish

we still had Jeff Suppun

by Jonathan23 on Apr 17, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions

nice.....

by busch league on Apr 17, 2007 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions

I know they are young and talented

but we have made gorzelanny and snell look like glavine and maddux circa 1995. After 13 games I've realized we will hit better than this, but we just flat out aren't a very good hitting team. Edmonds looks like crap every time he is up, I mean the guy just looks dejected. Pujols will get better, and I think rolen is poised to have a good year as well. Then you have a proven commodity in eck and a rising star in duncan. After that we just flat out suck. Kennedy, Wilson, Taguchi, Speez, Miles, SCHUMAKER???? These guys are all role players and thus far they have all been platooned equally and we have absolutley nothing resembling an everday lineup. This is a patchwork of mediocrity outside of 1-5(1-4 if you are counting the zombie version of edmonds which we currently have) and something needs to be done or we can count on 70-80 wins.

by thewizard3 on Apr 17, 2007 3:19 PM EDT reply actions

This one is on...

the manager. I mean, play Kennedy. If he doesn't like Kennedy, get somebody in there he does like, but don't give all the at bats to Miles. Play Duncan. No explanation whatsoever needed there. Get rid of either Skip or Taguchi and carry one defensive replacement like a normal team.

Acquire any Established Major League Outfielder!

by guayzimi on Apr 17, 2007 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Power outage in busch stadium

Excluding our two-10 run games, the cards have averaged 1.9 runs per game.

Home Runs by players not named Duncan or Pujols: 1

They lead the world in hitting into double plays, 18 so far this year.

So to sum up the offense, no power, no speed, low batting average.

by redbird2006in on Apr 17, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions

The Cardinals' Organ

Earlier in the broadcast, I heard Hrabosky say "well we've got the heart of the order coming up." Maybe its because I'm in a cynical mood, but probably because our lineup sucks now, I started thinking that our lineup doesn't really have a heart. We aren't pumping any line drives -- the "blood" of the heart of the lineup metaphor. THEN, that got me thinking . . . what organ does the Cardinals lineup most accurately portray?

I think the "intestines" of the lineup is pretty damned apt, considering what we are producing . . .

by Ray Lankford on Apr 17, 2007 3:28 PM EDT reply actions

MY LIVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if they keep playing like this. Wore out grey and just hanging on. You know enough to give you hope it will work right but it never does. Can we put the offense on dialysis?

by DJ4508 on Apr 17, 2007 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Did you see that PBS special

on stomach stapling or somesuch in which a researcher called the intestines a second brain? I haven't though about myself the same way since.

by Don Zero on Apr 17, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions

The appendix

It's useless and it can make your stomach hurt, but it is fairly easy to get out.

by Nate811 on Apr 17, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Okay...

I thought we got rid of Marquis.

Redbirds Fun
The Kentucky Democrat
2006 WS for JB and DK57

by cardsfan84 on Apr 17, 2007 3:36 PM EDT reply actions

don the rally caps, amigos....

as mike always says..." ol' abner doubleday has done it again." big guys up in the bottom of the 9th.

2 on for scotty-ro.

c'mon boys, let's get this thing turned around, right here, right now.

by busch league on Apr 17, 2007 3:40 PM EDT reply actions

crap

The game is on the line and here comes the K king

Redbirds Fun
The Kentucky Democrat
2006 WS for JB and DK57

by cardsfan84 on Apr 17, 2007 3:41 PM EDT reply actions

I'm glad I didn't ditch class to go to the game

Four hits and two errors does not a happy fan make.

by bailorg on Apr 17, 2007 3:44 PM EDT reply actions

series

nothing like getting your butt kicked by the pirates

by truemun12 on Apr 17, 2007 3:44 PM EDT reply actions

philosophy

i think it was the noted 20th century philosopher/poet joan jett who once croned....

"i hate myself for loving you..."

kind of what i feel like when watching my beloved redbirds scuffle like this.

"i can't break free from the things that you do;
i want to walk but i run back to you;
that's why i hate myself for loving you."

sigh....

giants tomorrow. let the bonds bashing commence.

peace.

by busch league on Apr 17, 2007 3:45 PM EDT reply actions

crap

PW strikes out on 3 pitches with 2 on, 2 out, in the bottom of the ninth, and it only reduces his WPA from .046 to .044. I was hoping it would wipe him out.

the 2007 cardinals are turning me into an exceedingly mean and spiteful person :(

"God is back in the National League. Matter of fact, he is staying at my house." -Joaquin Andujar

by SleepyCA on Apr 17, 2007 3:45 PM EDT reply actions

Mean and spiteful

At least the Cubs are losing behind Miller right now. It would be seriously painful to get leapfrogged by them today.

by liam on Apr 17, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm with you on the mean and spiteful

This team is confirming my fears
so to stem the flow of my tears
I think of Cubs' fans
who've been also-rans
for pert near one hundred years

by Silent George on Apr 17, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Losing is a Disease...

speaking of anatomical explanations for baseball failure...

Ah, but curable! Now I want you to imagine you are on a ship at sea...

gently rocking...

D.GOOCH

by GOOCH24 on Apr 17, 2007 4:23 PM EDT reply actions

The way the Cards are playing right now ...

they're going to get a good spanking on their collective heinies by the Cubs coming up here ... and that will be painful.

by Urban Pawnee on Apr 17, 2007 4:34 PM EDT reply actions

i don't know about that

the cubs look pretty bad. they're tired. and soriano's hurt.

satis superque

by ortic jones on Apr 17, 2007 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Duncan question

Let me start by saying that I'm a fan and supporter of TLR. I (normally) like the way he does things and from reading 3 nights in August, sometimes its like a chess game - thinking 20 moves ahead. He seems to have a good sense of combining playing the numbers as well as a player's intensity, drive... their heart, if you will.

That said, I can understand the decision to sit Molina - a catcher's job is tough, give him a day off once in a while. I can also understand sitting Kennedy - Miles has hit lefties better.

What I can't understand is sitting Duncan. I just can't find a good reason not to play him. He's proven he can be patient and hit lefties. He's proven that he can play the defense. Granted it's only been a baker's dozen worth of games, but he's batting over .400! He's been our best (some might say "only") offensive production so far. Opposing managers (Ned Yost, Brewers) states that compared to last year, THIS year they have to worry when he comes up to bat. He can do damage.

So my question: What on earth is TLR's reasoning behind sitting Duncan? I ask, because there's a lot of baseball knowledgeable posters on this board (which is MUCH better than many other boards, so kudos to you all).

I guess that if the answer is just that Dunc is human and needed a day off I'll have to live with it, but... man.

by SmashedAtoms on Apr 17, 2007 5:22 PM EDT reply actions

Sometimes

you just have to chalk it up to Tony "keeping 'em fresh." Don't read too much into it. It was a day game after a night game, and we have a tough road trip out to SF for 2 games (?) and then to Wrigley to face the Cubbies.

Just look at the big picture. You know that TLR is. He always does.

by silent_bob on Apr 17, 2007 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks Bob,

Appreciate the response, and after reading your thoughts, I agree completely - I was failing to look at the bigger picture. Even our best need the chance to take a breather once in a while.

Thanks again.

by SmashedAtoms on Apr 18, 2007 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions

2007 Cardinals worst start to title defense

since 1998 Marlins.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 17, 2007 6:02 PM EDT reply actions

Cardinals offense = anemic

What happened to our "murderer's row" of just 2 years ago?

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Apr 17, 2007 6:19 PM EDT reply actions

Injuries and Aging.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Apr 17, 2007 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions

talk about killing your bullpen

both starters in the cubs/padres game left after 5 innings, and they're still going in the top of the 14th... padres just scored, but I'm not sure I wouldn't like to see the cubs score in the bottom of the inning just to keep it going a little longer.

Wow, they brought in jake peavy as a pinch hitter.

"God is back in the National League. Matter of fact, he is staying at my house." -Joaquin Andujar

by SleepyCA on Apr 17, 2007 6:32 PM EDT reply actions

Indictment:

We have more regulars under the Mendoza line than above it. Argh. D.GOOCH

by GOOCH24 on Apr 17, 2007 9:11 PM EDT reply actions

killing the bullpen slowly..

ya, 5 innings doesnt sound that much less than 6 or 7, but over time it adds up to a lot more appearences by our bullpen hurlers..

by Rentboy on Apr 17, 2007 9:21 PM EDT reply actions

Title Defense Blues revisited

Remembering back to the 80's, under Whitey's guidance, the Cards would play really great, or at least winning, odd-year seasons (85, 87, 89) sandwiched in between injury-plagued, anemic-offense suckfest even-year seasons (84, 86, 88, 90). Card fans were on a continual roller coaster with Whitey and his boys. Bizarre injuries seemed to be on the thread linking all the bad campaigns - the killer tarp, pulled rib cage, falling off a seawall, punching wall fixtures. I even remember Whitey's gallows-humor in evidence at an off-season speaking engagement, just before kicking off spring training, he closed by remarking to his boosters, "All right, let's go get some players injured!"

And the Mets were always there to kick them when they were down in the NL East standings. Great rivalry.

by Urban Pawnee on Apr 17, 2007 9:22 PM EDT reply actions

Mets

After living through the 80's as a Cards fan I really have a profound hatred of the Mets. To my horror, my son came home from his first tee-ball practice today with a METS uniform on. Yuck! I guess it could have been worse, it could have been the Cubs.

by cards fan in colo on Apr 17, 2007 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm not going to say that JRod is the

offensive solution to our problems -- he's not, Albert/Rolen/Jimmy getting hot is -- but this team can't afford to not field their best hitters on a daily basis. With Spiezio nursing a sore back (and honestly he's as much a role player as JRod), it doesn't make sense to let these anemic offensive performances continue. . .

JRod has a .400+ OBP (in a horribly small sample size). He does not belong in Memphis. It'd be one thing if our bench didn't consist of Taguchi, Wilson, and Schumaker -- but it does. This continues to frustrate me to no end.

John Rodriguez for Right Field

by azruavatar on Apr 17, 2007 9:38 PM EDT reply actions

Cosign

NO excuse at this point. JRod can't get here soon enough. He's better than any of the other platoon options at this point.

by silent_bob on Apr 17, 2007 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions

you hate to say this

but i'm beginning to come to the conclusion that the cardinals may simply not be very good. the pitching is okay, but how long to expect looper/keisler/wells to actually pitch the way they are pitching. the outfield (other than duncan) is a joke. edmonds is old and slow, wilson and taguchi are useless, and speez can only do so much. encarnacion coming back may contribute a bit more, but i just don't see how that could help a whole lot. the team's two best players are not playing (carp) or not performing (pujols). edmonds will not heat up, i don't think he will be useful down the stretch. this team simply doesn't have enough playmakers. blame ownership, it should never come down to having a reliever start.

by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 17, 2007 11:13 PM EDT reply actions

ok i agree with most of this

however im glad they didnt spend big Schmidt DL, Pavano(rumored to be a trade target) DL, Soriano DL...so things could be worse. They could have overspent and been bad. As mad as i get at ownership for the second yr in a row not upgrading at this point and its early i don't blame em.

Kenny is a "dirt" bag?

by punchinjudy on Apr 17, 2007 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Well

Soriano isn't on the DL . . . he's only expected to miss a week. Also, Carlos Lee is off to a great start in Houston.

by Ray Lankford on Apr 18, 2007 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Carlos Lee

may very well put together a monster season... this year.

I think most people's problem with El Caballo was how many years were needed to get him.

by TICY on Apr 18, 2007 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions

and the fact

that he was probably unavailable to anyone but Houston and Texas...

"God is back in the National League. Matter of fact, he is staying at my house." -Joaquin Andujar

by SleepyCA on Apr 18, 2007 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions

and also

he's a lot more useful in that crappy little humidifier/athletic club in Houston for 81 games than he would be at Busch for 81 games. both in the field and at the plate...

by madding on Apr 18, 2007 5:43 AM EDT up reply actions

i agree,

look around the league at all the teams with good young talent in their line ups. who do the Cards have? Dunc&Pujols, and maybe throw Yadda in there. that's it. at every other position the Cards are below average at best. I have no idea whats wrong with Rolen, but he has completly lost the ability to hit. we now see why Kennedy came to us on the cheap. Jimmy is playing hurt. we have no right fielder. and I hate to say it, but the league might have finally past ECK by. Just Enough just ain't enough anymore.

its sad but true, the Cardinals just don't have the talent to win. I for one want to know how could they let this happened? and what do the Cards do to fix it? and how soon can it be fixed?

The 2006 St.Louis Cardinals. WORLD CHAMPIONS OF THE WORLD. And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Apr 18, 2007 1:42 AM EDT reply actions

umm disagree

above average:
Pujols, Rolen, Duncan (maybe -- he's playing a totally offensive position but he's still doing quite well)

average:
Eckstein, Edmonds (maybe -- he's playing a defensive position, if you think that he's done for good he probably isn't average anymore but it's not too hard to be an offensively average CF)

below average:
Yadier, Kennedy, RF tangle

Some of our talent may be old, but I really doubt that Rolen went from last year's .887 OPS to "completly lost the ability to hit". I think you are over-reacting to some small sample sizes.

John Rodriguez for Right Field

by azruavatar on Apr 18, 2007 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Network Bar

Viva El Birdos -

Game 13 Open Thread: April 17, 2007

Do you like this story?

Comments