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Around SBN: A Miracle Squared: Celebrating The Greatness Of Bo Jackson

hocus pocus

in the game thread yesterday, somebody called this the ugliest three-game sweep they've ever witnessed; aptly put. the box scores seem more fit for deadball-era 1907 baseball than the 2007 game --- a lotta singles and a whole lotta outs; each side mustered one home run in the three games. as la russa put it in the last line of the post's game recap, "[T]his better not be the best we play all year because it won't be good enough."

but in some ways, the inelegance of what the cardinals just accomplished in pittsburgh makes it all the more encouraging. they swept a series from the hungry, hot-starting pirates despite no innings from carpenter and a combined MV3 output of two runs and one rbi. the weather was dispiriting; so were carpenter's injury status (which only became known on the eve of the series), albert's struggles, the failing health of rolen and spiezio (and, it goes without saying, edmonds), and the season-long malaise of the offense. to grind out three wins under those circumstances --- well, this is a team that will have to take its wins however it can get them for a while. they weren't impressive, but they were well earned. the cards played with determination and with sharpness afield, a welcome contrast to the dull title-hangover stupor that seemed to grip them in the opening series. they appear to be back in play-a-hard-9 mode --- and a team with so little margin for error can't afford not to be.

i don't mean to downplay the cards' run-scoring problems, which are very real and probably only can be solved via a trade. it's true that rolen and pujols are bound to heat up at some point, but that doesn't really solve anything. those guys aren't machines; this won't be the last time they slump during the year. if the team's current output (2.89 runs/game) is all we can expect when those two aren't producing, then the team has problems.

but does 2.89 runs per game accurately reflect the cards' productivity to date? i would argue that it's an underrepresentation. the cardinals have lost an inordinately high number of guys on the bases this year, and that has artificially depressed their already meager runs-scored total. to start with, they've lost two runners on failed squeeze plays; two others were lost on the bases, and a third was nailed when he was put in motion on a 3-2 pitch --- strike-em-out, throw-em-out. which leads to the biggest distortion in the cards' run-scoring record to date: double plays. they have grounded into 12 this year and lined into 3 others, plus the lost runner on the 3-2 strikeout --- 16 double plays in 9 games, which extrapolates to 288 double plays over 162 games. last year the average offense suffered 151 double plays --- that's all types, including lineouts, strike-out-throw-outs, etc. at that rate, we'd expect the cardinals to have hit / run into about 9 double plays so far this year; using tangotiger's run expectancy matrix, we can guesstimate that the extra 7 dps have cost the cards between 4 and 5 runs.

another minor distortion: the cardinals have only reached base via error twice this season, a rate of 36 times per 162 games. given an average rate of opposition errors, they should have picked up a couple of extra baserunners and, we'd expect, another run.

it's still not such a pretty picture --- the "adjusted" production is only about 3.5 runs per game ---- but if 3.5 runs per game is what they can expect with albert, scotty, and jimmy all scuffling simultaneously, then maybe the situation's not quite as dire as it looks. to reiterate: i'm not trying to pretend that the offense doesn't have big problems. i'm not trying to make those problems disappear through statistical sleight of hand. i'm just trying to look at all the indicators and do as precise an accounting as possible. we can reasonably expect the team to score more runs in the future, no matter what rolen pujols and edmonds do.

one other way to look at this: compare the cards' overall offensive numbers to those of their opponents:

AB H 2B 3B HR WHP | AVG OBP SLG | RUNS
cardinals 300 72 15  1  4 27 | .240 .302 .337 | 26
opponents 297 68  9  1  6 38 | .229 .312 .327 | 32

"whp" means walks plus hit batters. the cards have had 6 fewer baserunners than their opponents (106-100) while amassing 4 more total bases; they're dead even in OPS. all other things being equal, you'd expect the runs-scored totals to come out about equal. but the cards have been outscored by .67 runs per game --- that's the cumulative effect of the skewed totals in double plays and lost baserunners.

the cards' big bats will eventually get going --- but then, the same is true of their opponents. we can't expect st louis pitchers to hold the opposition to that line all season. but opponents can't expect to keep turning two dps per game against the cardinals, while playing nearly error-free baseball. this offense is better than what it has shown so far.

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Outstanding article by D Goold
in the P-D today about "the core."  One of the best baseball articles I've ever read in that paper, in fact.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 12, 2007 9:03 AM EDT reply actions  

I was going to say the exact same thing
Really great.  I was going to suggest it for a thread and it really works well into today's discussion.  Right now our "core" stinks but Duncan is emerging as a player who is part of the "core".  When we've won, it's been b/c of the supporting players -- Miles and Bennett, Duncan, etc.  But, as LB correctly points out, the supporting cast is going to have to get a little bit better -- whether that's from Encarnacion or through trade -- "the core can't be the offense."  (Quoting Derrick Goold).

http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/sports-bird-land/2007/04/o-woes-reconsidering-the-cardinals-core/

by chuckb on Apr 12, 2007 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great Read
Thanks for the recommendation. That was a very good analysis.

by bgh on Apr 12, 2007 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bat
It's obvious, to me at least, that the team needs another bat in the lineup.  Preston K. Wilson and So Taguchi just aren't going to cut it for 162 games.  Juan Encarnacion is a weak hitting player who I want off the team.  He's useless.

What are our trade options and who is available on the market?

Bench Juan Encarnacion!

by STLCardinalsFan on Apr 12, 2007 9:09 AM EDT reply actions  

Juan E
is a HUGE upgrade over P-Dub in RF.  I'd take him at 100% right now.

by silent_bob on Apr 12, 2007 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

How do you know that?
See: Roger Maris for what a wrist injury can do to a players offensive production.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 12, 2007 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree...
thats why I said "at 100%."  

Derek Lee seems to be doing fine.

by silent_bob on Apr 12, 2007 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

After a full year in which he struggled
Because of that wrist...

I don't think we can expect much from Enc this year.

by OCCardsFan on Apr 12, 2007 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Juan E struggled b/c of the wrist?
All year?  Prove it.  He struggled in Sept/October - I'll give you that.  But he did not "struggle" in the regular season.  He put up his normal numbers.

by silent_bob on Apr 12, 2007 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think
He was referring to Derrek Lee last season, who wasn't himself until August.

by liam on Apr 12, 2007 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ah!
Misunderstanding.

But Lee fractured his wrist.  I know a wrist injury is a wrist injury, but they are two different scenarios.

by silent_bob on Apr 12, 2007 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry
That wasn't clear.  Yeah I was referring to D Lee and I understand they weren't the same injury, but isn't it rather difficult to regain strength in a wrist?  I'm just really concerned about the RF production even after Jenc comes back.

by OCCardsFan on Apr 12, 2007 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah
Don't get me wrong - I have my doubts.  It doesn't look good really.  JuanE has had numerous setbacks, which doesn't bode well.

by silent_bob on Apr 12, 2007 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

yar
I had a bit of nerve damage from leaning on my elbow too much while reading at work (documentation, I swear!) a few months ago. It took over a month for the tingling to stop and I'm still trying to get the strength and feeling back to where it was. It seems like something so minor but it seems to take a lot of time and work to get it back to normal. I would imagine Enc's is going to be significantly more difficult than my stupid little problem.

by Birds on the Matt on Apr 12, 2007 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good question
Clearly adding an outfielder would be the best option and the Rays are full of them

Baldelli
Crawford

The past two seasons the O's have been looking to move Tejada, so maybe we could work something there. He is signed through 2009.

If the Braves stumble, Andrew Jones is in a contract year.

And there is always the question of whether the Red Soxs are so furstrated with Coco Crisp that we could get him cheap.

And you never know who else will come avalible during the season.

While I am not a huge fan of Jaun E. I also wonder whether he wouldn't be a better option (assuming he is healthy) than trading away our young pitching, which is what it will take to get most of these players.

Clearly if Reyes continues to struggle or the Cards fall out of the race, then Walt has some nice trading chips to work with (Reyes, Looper, Wells, in addition to the AAA guys (Cate, Narveson) and looking over the list of 2007 offensive free agents, only Andrew Jones would provide the additional eliet level offensive output the Card have been lacking since 2005 due to injury (Rolen and Edmonds).

Of the group above, I would love to see the Cards add Crawford, who would be a great #2 hitter, providing both the speed and the danger LaRussa loves. Baldelli is often injured, and would rather not make that deal. I also really like the idea of adding Tejada because I think the basic form of a deal could work (Reyes, Eckstine, one of our AA starters or our closer prospects), but I also wonder whether without assurances that the O's will be adding Texiera down the line, they won't back out of any deal just like they did last season with the Angels.

by JMedwick on Apr 12, 2007 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Other maybes
The Rays do have a glut of outfielders, but will want the moon for Baldelli and Crawford.  Crawford might be worth it, but Baldelli definitely isn't.  

Undervalued by the team and currently riding pine is Jonny Gomes.   He could be had for much less and is probably their best hitter.  

Another guy and VEB cult favorite who might be available is Ryan Church.   Robinson hated him.   I believe Acta is much smarter, but the Nationals need pitching like no other team.   Narvie, Kiesler, Thompson, even Hawksworth are probably all better right now than 3/5 of the Nats starting rotation.   I bet we could pry Church away.

I'd rather go for an underappreciated player than trade the farm for a one season rental of a name like Burrell.

We don't really need a leftie bat who had bad splits, but Jenkins is available.   The Crew also has a glut of outfielders, but doesn't really need to much...maybe some pen additions.   Mench, Nix, Hart, Jenkins, Hall, Gwynn Jr., Gross.

by RedbirdRay on Apr 12, 2007 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Church is a lefty
and his splits aren't great-correct?  What about Austin Kearns?

by silent_bob on Apr 12, 2007 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was
just thinking about Kearns the other day.  The Nats are so bad - it would have to be in their interest to trade him for someone very young.

I hope we're the team.

by Toddius396 on Apr 12, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Gomes
I agree w/ you that he's underrated by TB, and that he would be a good value-trade.

I heard that Gomes is sub-par defensively in the outfield, though.  Is he really bad, or just kinda bad?  If he's just kinda bad, the Cards should go for it.

matty fred is a web log.

by matty fred on Apr 12, 2007 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Forgetting about the most probable
The guy that we can most likely get via trade is Jermaine Dye. It appears the White Soxs have no interest in signing him long term. Of course, they will have to be out of the race. This is very likely, as I see the White Soxs as the 4th best team in their division. Maybe a blockbuster Dye/Buerhle trade is possible. Do I think this will happen, NO. But it's possible and I expect to see Dye in a Cards jersey more than anyone else.  

I have also seen that it appears most people want Crawford more than anyone. If it were up to me, I want Andruw Jones. Now don't get me wrong, Crawford is a great player and would fit our team great. However, I think we need more of a power guy. We have enough single/double players on this roster. I want a guy who can step up to the plate and win a game with one swing. He would give Pujols great protection because if you don't want to pitch to Pujols, you get to pitch to Jones with runners on base with the fear of the homer every pitch. Plus he can play Center and we can move Edmonds to right, helping him stay healthier. Just like the Reds are doing with Griffey.

Will we get Jones, probably not. The Braves are really good and are in the race til the end. Will we get Dye? I wouldn't be surprised to see him in a cards jersey by the end of the year.  

by stl3bagger on Apr 12, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

andruw
we don't have much the braves would want. the braves like to grow their own pitchers, and they still have several prospects that rate more highly than we do. and i don't think we're giving up rasmus.

unless we're willing to go reyes/jay/dove/something - which still might not be enough - we should probably look elsewhere.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Apr 12, 2007 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crawford is like 24
and he's hit more HR's each year.  Not to mention the stellar defense and incredible speed.  He's basically Jose Reyes.  He's going nowhere.

May as well just look at viable options - not pie-in -the-sky trades.

by silent_bob on Apr 12, 2007 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

You say that
and you aren't wrong that Crawford is top flight, but really the D-Rays have good young outfielders all over the place. Young, Crawford, Gomes, Dukes, Baldelli and we haven't even talked about BJ Upton. I mean heck they let Josh Hamilton walk off because they have more outfielders than they know what to do with. Of those, I think only Crawford and Baldelli are signed to any deals. They might be more recpective to trades than you think, if only because they have even younger and cheaper players (while just as talented) than Crawford.

by JMedwick on Apr 12, 2007 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alright - ['ll play...
To me, Crawford is the only sure 5-tool guy.

D. Young - off the field issues.
Upton - Defensive issues
Baldelli - most documented hammy puller in the history of baseball.
Gomes - in AAA (??)

Gomes might be the most viable option, since he's in the dog house.

That organization is so ripe with talent - It seems that they get incredible talent but do not know how to groom them for the show.  It's pretty mind-boggling really.

by silent_bob on Apr 12, 2007 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Their hand is pretty much forced.
Groom them "WE DRAFTED THESE GUYS ALMOST 3 MONTHS AGO.  GET THEM ON THE FIELD NOW!"

by sdrone on Apr 12, 2007 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Juan E
No matter what your opinion is of Juan E, he is not going to be "off the team" anytime soon.  He makes 5MM a year and is under contract through next season.  There are not any teams looking to trade for him so he will be here for a while.

There are not any stud outfielders available for trade right now anyway.  Even the bottom tier teams are holding on to their talent at this point in the season because if a team like Phillies traded away Pat Burrell right now their fans would riot.

The best available OF help right now is Toronto's Reed Johnson.  Not really an exciting option.

Honestly, if Juan Encarnacion can get healthy he is the best option for now.  He hit leftys at .313 clip last year and if he hits 15HR and 70 RBI in the final five months of the season that would be OK from the #6 spot in the lineup.  He's not great but he can help the team get to 88 wins... and that should be good enough.  

For now I think the best thing is platoon Preston and J-Rod in RF and use Taguchi as a backup to JEd and Duncan.  

Lets look at a Preston/JRod Platoon stats over the last 3 seasons.

Preston v LHP- 308 AB's, 18 HR, 58 RBI, .862OPS
JRod v RHP   - 292 AB's,  6 HR, 38 RBI, .798OPS
TOTAL        - 600 AB's, 24 HR, 96 RBI, .828OPS

Not too bad from that combo, but I might be dreaming since JRod is in AAA its not a very likely to happen.  

2006 Cardinals- An underdog story

by Born in 82 on Apr 12, 2007 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Runners In Scoring Position
The Cards are only hitting .222 so far this year.

Last year, they hit .271.

During the NY series, I was muttering to myself, "Why can't we get a timely hit?"

A fifty-point increase there would go a long way as well.

by bgh on Apr 12, 2007 9:35 AM EDT reply actions  

brew crew ball
Jeff is talking smack (nicely) at Brew Crew Ball.

http://www.brewcrewball.com/story/2007/4/11/232320/844

by raisin @ Viva El Birdos on Apr 12, 2007 9:52 AM EDT reply actions  

If their bullpen pitches well
and they stay healthy, they're going to be formidable!  Pujols has always hit Sheets very well and I'm hoping that a good hard thrower can help Pujols out of his slump.

by chuckb on Apr 12, 2007 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bush turning into his comp
Chris Carpenter could also really push them up the standings.   They have a nice 3 year window here to turn the franchise around.   Hate to chear for a division rival, but I wish them well.

by RedbirdRay on Apr 12, 2007 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Errors are Forced and DP's Avoided
of the 8 batters with over 20 AB's, only three are hitting into tough luck according to BABIP (kennedy, scotty, and apu).  but 7 of the 8 are stacked at the bottom of the roster with negative WPA's.  only dunc is up on that scale.

we're not hitting well enough to force errors or avoid dp's.  at least you have to have a base runner before 2 outs to make a dp possible.  on the other hand, if there was a ratio of dp's per base runner, we surely must be leading the league.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Apr 12, 2007 9:58 AM EDT reply actions  

i disagree
three of the double plays have been line drives --- including one yesterday in the 9th inning with men at 1st and 3d and 1 out. if it gets past eldred, one run scores and another man winds up at 3d and almost certainly scores as well. instead the inning ends.

3 line-drive double plays in 9 games is not a normal rate. it's much higher than normal.

i'm not saying that tough luck accounts for all the cards' woes; i'm saying it accounts for a portion. acknowledging that portion doesn't change the fact that the cards aren't hitting well; it just clarifies the extent of their hitting problems and paints a more accurate picture. the cards' 12 groundball double plays can be chalked up to poor hitting, but the 3 line-drive DPs can't.

by lboros on Apr 12, 2007 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

i'll take the 3 hard ones
one of those was even tougher to suffer since the previous strike was a smash to the same place that eluded the glove, but also eluded the baseline.  tough luck, and maybe on the third chance it goes off the glove for an error.  we can survive those.
but watching apu match p-dub with infield singles is disheartening.  check swing dribblers and 3 pitch K's are not just tough luck, it's ugly.
i was actually imagining that BABIP would show more of the hitters hitting into tough luck, but it was really only the three obvious lagards of the line-up.
with kennedy doing a junior spivey imitation, we have to hope for warmer weather to loosen up scotty's back, and wait for apu to get another batting lesson from his wife to restore the famous heel-toe step.  
Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Apr 12, 2007 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

This post bordered on
encouraging me this morning.  So did the fifteen base runners and the 3 extra base hits yesterday.  But this offense trots out three or four offensive black holes every night.  A trade seems unfeasible because we have no depth from which to trade.  

A J-Rod promotion seems like the only option, unless ryan church is available...

by Jonathan23 on Apr 12, 2007 10:07 AM EDT reply actions  

With the easily
exploited 'black holes', I think an excess of stranded baserunners could be a norm for this year.  

There always seems to be a Pr2sTOn, Taguchi, Miles, etc. right around the corner for any pitcher in trouble.

by RedbirdRay on Apr 12, 2007 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure I follow your
"black hole" theory. As it looks to me right now, the "scrubs" are carrying the team. I hate to say this, but right now Pujols is a pretty big black hole. This obviously isn't going to stay this way, but if you look at your usual suspects of black-holedom, they are getting hits. Miles, Bennett, Yadier to name a few. In regards to J-Rod, we would be sacrificing defense for how much of an offensive upgrade? I realize the animosity towards So, but he does play all outfield positions. (And right now the best batting avg. not including wainer)
Jimscobert Purolmonds - MV3

by OKCardsfan on Apr 12, 2007 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, you're right, it feels funny
for me to offer my usual why-are-these-guys-even-in-MLB opinion about Miles and Gooch right at this moment, considering how well they've played in the last few days, but this is why we have to take the long view and recognize the long-term reality of what these guys offer us, which is damn little.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 12, 2007 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sample size
I doubt (and probably most do) that the scrubs will continue to produce.  Luck has a lot to do with...and Yadi's line is actually dismal.  Miles and Taguchi are not going to hold down .800 OPS.

by RedbirdRay on Apr 12, 2007 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well
Sample size is of course small. So the theory that we are trotting out black holes is kinda weak. We haven't had enough time to develop black holes yet. You actually just made my original point.
Jimscobert Purolmonds - MV3

by OKCardsfan on Apr 12, 2007 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Given Miles and Gooch's (and Molina's)
established history, the "black hole" theory is in fact very strong.  Yes, on any given day, any scrub can play like Stan Musial.  That doesn't make him really from Donora.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 12, 2007 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Given
I was refering to this season. The typical black holes are not right now so that theory at present is not true. I know and you know that will not hold up, but I don't think you can blame them for our offensive woes right now.
Jimscobert Purolmonds - MV3

by OKCardsfan on Apr 12, 2007 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

My day is horrible so far
No Cardinal game and I just found out Kurt Vonnegut died.   Yuck.   Thank you Mr. Vonnegut.  

by RedbirdRay on Apr 12, 2007 10:40 AM EDT reply actions  

No doubt...
God bless you, Mr. V. Another giant gone. Rest In Peace.

by rockin redbird on Apr 12, 2007 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hocus Pocus
I'm assuming the title of lboros's entry today is a nod as well. I know I felt like turning the car around and heading home when I heard the news on the way to work this morning.

by ReplacementLevelPoster on Apr 12, 2007 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

i attended a lecture by vonnegut
in college. he wasn't at all what i expected ---- very tall (6'4") and not at all bitter or angry, not the least bit awkward in his skin. i guess i had been expecting woody allen. but he was warm, funny, mischievous --- bantered genially with the crowd and cracked everybody up with a number of one-liners that he ad-libbed in response to questions from the crowd.

cat's cradle is my favorite vonnegut.

by lboros on Apr 12, 2007 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vonnegut Opera
When Vonnegut was in STL for the perfomance of his opera @ webster U.  I had a similar experience as you Larry.  

I think Bluebeard is my favorite, however it is hard to pick.

by gonzostl on Apr 12, 2007 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

My girlfriend was
very upset about the news as well.  The guy was 84!  C'mon.

SH5 for me, by the way.  

by Jonathan23 on Apr 12, 2007 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Harrison Bergeron
Was meant as a treatise about the absurdity of "all men are created equal". But I think it is also a great (unintentional) explanation of what ADD feels like.
Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.

by Solanus on Apr 12, 2007 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

mine too.
Cat's Cradle slays me every time.

by matt reeder on Apr 12, 2007 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Folks...
there are 153 more games to play. Albert will not hit .152 the rest of the year; Taguchi and Wilson are going to continue to get significant playing time, so get used to it; and JuEnc will still be around, no matter how much you bitch about him.

If they're still playing like this in late June and early July, then it'll be time to panic.

by cardsrul on Apr 12, 2007 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Why does Ducan not play every day?
My positional analysis:
First the easy ones
1b - Pujols
3b - Rolen
cf - Edmonds
ss - Eckstein

lf - Duncan.   Duncan is clearly our best offensive player so far this year.   He's even better against Lefties (4 hits, 8 AB).   Watching him at the plate and he appears have to have a great eye for the strike zone, sure he strikes out some, but he has a 400 OBP.   This would seem a no-brainer to me, but he sure does sit a lot.  

2b - Why does Kennedy not get some more rest or something... he's struggled all year even, in spring training.  Kennedy has a .167 OBP.  
Miles isn't awesome offensively, but he's certainly better than a slumping Kennedy.   How long is it appropriate to let someone hit .133 before you bench them?

c - I'd like to see Bennett given more opportunities behind the plate.  

rf - Oh the choices:

Spiezio - Offensive star, but he can play so many positions, maybe its best to keep him as the secret weapon.

That leaves...
Taguchi - People don't like him, but who else will Tony play that's better?
Wilson -- I still don't like this guy... 1 extra base hit in 8 games for an outfielder might be the reason.
Schumaker - .143 OPB, no extra base hits, AAA!

If we just had 1 player that was slumping, it would be easier to just leave him in the line-up and let him work through it.  But half our line-up right now is just not hitting well.  

Stat of the day:
Chris Duncan: 4.7 pitches per plate appearance (leads the team)

by redbird2006in on Apr 12, 2007 1:12 PM EDT reply actions  

on the mark
I agree and think Skip is quickly showing that J-Rod can do his job as well or better.  

And, Bennett can provide value, both on his own, and as a way to keep Yadi fresh, hopefully, boosting Yadi's productivity, too.  

by raisin @ Viva El Birdos on Apr 12, 2007 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Skip = Gooch. Period.
One should be on the big club.  The other - gone.  I think we all know who should be gone.  That would get J-Rod up here as a PH at least.

by silent_bob on Apr 12, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Keep Gooch ship out Skip
Look at JROD's stats down in Memphis!  He is crushing the ball at a 900+ OPS clip!  GET HIM UP HERE ASAP!
2006 Cardinals- An underdog story

by Born in 82 on Apr 12, 2007 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

J-ROD
I am not defending Skip or Gooch but they can both relieve Edmonds in Center whereas J-ROD cannot. THat is the only reason they are both up here and he is not. I think it would be in everyones best interest to get rid of one of them and move up J-Rod. So is the logical choice, but he apparently has "clutchiness" so TLR likes him.
Jimscobert Purolmonds - MV3

by OKCardsfan on Apr 12, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

what makes you say that?
J-rod came up as a CF and has started at elast one game in memphis at CF this year.
"God is back in the National League. Matter of fact, he is staying at my house." -Joaquin Andujar

by SleepyCA on Apr 12, 2007 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously
you wouldn't criticize TLR if JRod played CF?  

by silent_bob on Apr 12, 2007 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

How many CF's do we need?
Edmonds, Gooch, and Preston can all play CF just as well as (or better) than Skip can.  

Skip is a nice AAAA player who you can bring up in time of need but his presence is redundant (and its getting redundant saying that he is redundant).  

Demote Skip and bring up JRod- here's the updated depth chart

LF- Duncan, Taguchi, Spezio
CF- Edmonds, Taguchi, Preston
RF- Preston/JRod platoon, Spezio

All the bases are covered defensively and you have a better offense.

2006 Cardinals- An underdog story

by Born in 82 on Apr 12, 2007 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Given my limited knowledge
of Schumaker and the way Gooch has looked in the field this year and at the end of last year, I don't believe I'd say Gooch/Wilson can play CF as well as Schumaker.   He's got speed and a great arm.

Granted, I'm only talking defense.

by sdrone on Apr 12, 2007 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

TLR
would get criticized if he put Willie Mays in CF. It's the nature of the beast...

by cardsrul on Apr 12, 2007 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

At his age, as much as I love the "Say Hey'
Kid (one of my favorites all-time), I would criticize him for putting those coke-bottle glasses out there.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 12, 2007 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why don't..
we put Scott Spiezio at 2B? He's played the position before, and he's at least an average fielder. Besides, he has a great bat and would be a huge upgrade for the offense.

Spiezio v. RHP: .251/.363/.555
Spiezio v. LHP: .318/.372/.365

He wouldn't be a bad #2 guy against LHP, but he'd be a great #5 against RHP.

by VORP is too nerdy on Apr 12, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

he might be an average fielder
at a corner OF spot, or even 3B. but he's not average at 2B.

i don't know enough of the numbers - and i'm at work and not looking them up - to figure out whether the added offense he would represent over kennedy/miles, which would be significant, would be enough to outweigh the downgrade in defense. i worry about making a move like that in the middle infield with such a groundball-centric pitching staff.

I believe in the Sports Guy rule. Any "complaining" in this post is actually happy, cheerful "constructive criticism."

by nycbirdo on Apr 12, 2007 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

'cause our pitching is built
on VERY GOOD infield defense, not "doesn't kill us" infield defense.

by sdrone on Apr 12, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

J-Rod's Stats
John Rodriguez   
OF   
G: 5
AB: 16
R: 4
H: 6
2b: 2
3b: 0
HR: 1
RBI: 2
TB: 11
BB: 3
SO: 3
OBP: .500
SLG: .688
AVG: .375
OPS: 1.188

Hard to find these type of numbers in the Cards' current line-up . . .

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Apr 12, 2007 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gary Bennett
Since there is as much chance of J-Rod maintaining his pace as there is of J-Rod maintaining his.

by DJ4508 on Apr 12, 2007 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

does anyone know
if errors are included in OBP?

by eglasier on Apr 12, 2007 2:14 PM EDT reply actions  

No
OBP only includes walks and hits.

On a semi-related note, you can actually have a lower OBP than batting average, interestingly enough.

by Robb on Apr 12, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes
You're right - I forgot about HBP.  That counts, too.

The equation is Hits+BB+HBP divided by AB+BB+HBP+SF

by Robb on Apr 12, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

ddsd
sac flies/sac bunts?

ROE should count in OBP, in my opinion, because a hitters approach will often produce consistent ROE numbers.  I don't think the hitter should be rewarded for the other teams lapse (though you could say that about a lot of non-error defensive mistakes), but I think its a reasonable indicator.

Just how lboros pointed out that Jeff Suppan consistently lets up more unearned runs, the unearned runs, over a long enough time, become a product of suppan, and nto just his defense.  

by Jonathan23 on Apr 12, 2007 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought as
much but it seems like they could be included because I imagine that there is at least some element of skill involved in "forcing" an error.  I would imagine that faster players as well as players who hit the ball very hard or with spin are more likely to "draw" an error.  Its not that relevant, but just thought it a bit interesting.

by eglasier on Apr 12, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

lboros, What if
we take out the game that the mets scored 10 on us how does that change our opponents offensive line.  It would have to really drive it down I would assume.  It looks like without that game they are only hitting .216 against the good guys.  It also takes away 3 HR's.  Damn we got clobbered in that game.  All in all the pitching has been spectacular other than for three innings.  Isn't that what everyone was concerned about a month ago.  The other thing that is really getting to be bad is the J-Rod whining.  He's not here, he's not good enough to be our savior, and we've got what we've got.  I do agree he could help us right now since skip has imploded, but it seems as if the rest of the offense has also.  Everybody needs to start hitting.  We all have faith Apu will turn it on and I agree but I don't here one person screamin for his head.  Maybe we should send him down to Memphis to get his bat right for a couple games.  Better yet let's just switch the offenses totally out and see what happens.  I don't see how it could get much worse.  I think we should keep lil dunc up here though, and what happened to everybody who wanted to trade him this winter.  Where did ya all go?  Sorry about my bitchfest but I think it had to be done.  This offense is awful.

by DJ4508 on Apr 12, 2007 2:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I guess
I will state the obvious . . . Pujols will never play in the minors again unless he is rehabbing . . . the cards offense has been pretty offensive . . . but I don't know who you would "switch the offense out" with . . . it isn't like Memphis has been tearing things up.  If the Cards win, it will be mainly because of the players that they now have on the roster . . . Andruw Jones, Pat Burrell, et al are pipe dreams.  The Cards have little of value that they would WANT to trade and other teams would demand too much.  The price for someone like Jones would probably start at Wainwright . . . the point about J-Rod is well taken--he is not a savior and his contributions would likely mirror what Taguchi, Skip, and others have done--some good days at the plate combined with a few fielding gaffes and several 0 fors.  

That said, I'm still not convinced by the pitching staff . . . I keep waiting for Braden Looper to realize that he is Braden Looper--and Keisler's line the other night looked better than he pitched.  

" . . . that foul ball just landed in that lady's Busch." ~Shannon

by SprfldCards on Apr 12, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I KNOW APU
WON'T GO BACK DOWN BUT I WAS JUST TRYING TO MAKE A POINT.  IT IS AN INSANE IDEA AND VERY FAR FETCHED.  IT JUST ISN'T THAT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN SOME OF THE OTHER IDEAS AND PIPE DREAMS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CONJURING UP.  OTHER THAN WE KNOW IT WON'T HAPPEN.  REALITY NEEDS TO SINK IN.  WE NEED A BAT.  A BIG BAT WEATHER IT BE A YOUNG PLAYER OR ONE WITH ONLY A FEW GOOD YEARS LEFT.  IF THE BOYS START DROPPING LIKE FLYS I HATE TO SAY WE ARE GOING TO BE THE ASTROS OF OLD.  I WAS REAL HIGH ON SKIP WHEN THE SEASON STARTED BUT HIS BAT WENT TO HELL.  GRANT IT HE ONLY HAS 13AB'S BUT NONE OF THEM HAVE LOOKED GOOD THAT I HAVE SEEN.  I WAS HOT ON TAGG TOO BUT HE'S TURNED INTO A K MACHINE.  IT SEEMS LIKE EVERY ONE IS TRYING TO DO TOO MUCH AND HURTING THEMSELVES.  AS FOR THE PITCHING I ALSO BELIEVE THERE HAS TO BE A DECLINE AT SOME TIME.  I'D LOVE TO SEE IT KEEP GOING BUT IN GOOD FAITH CAN NOT HONESTLY BELIEVE IT WILL.  THAT SAID DUNC HAS WORKED HIS MAGIC IN THE PAST, WE SIGNED WELLS VERY FAST, WAINER IS A STUD AND I BELIEVE HE HAS A GREAT FUTURE, REYES MAY END UP LIKE MARQUIS (GREAT POTENTIAL AND LITTLE PERFOPRMANCE), AND LOOPER, WELL IT'S LOOPER, ENOUGH SAID.

by DJ4508 on Apr 12, 2007 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

gah
my eyes
my eyes

THIS IS UPPER CASE
this is lower case

Let's use a healthy mix of each. k? thanks.

John Rodriguez for Right Field

by azruavatar on Apr 12, 2007 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah
i was thinking the same thing when i first saw that, and was shocked it didnt have tolaxor for a signature
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Apr 13, 2007 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry all I just got home with my new key board,
The cap lock tends to permanently engage when your girlfriend hits you in the head with it.

by DJ4508 on Apr 12, 2007 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you take the Mets' 10 runs out
you have to take the Cards' 10 runs out, too (against Houston.)  and that would produce an even more frightening result, I bet.

by madding on Apr 12, 2007 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would it be permissible
to take out the entire Mets series and just focus on our record in the division, which we really need to improve over last year's?

by Don Zero on Apr 12, 2007 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re:
If the Cards win, it will be mainly because of the players that they now have on the roster . . . Andruw Jones, Pat Burrell, et al are pipe dreams.  The Cards have little of value that they would WANT to trade and other teams would demand too much.  The price for someone like Jones would probably start at Wainwrigh

I've been saying the same thing for the last couple of years, but some people just can't, or won't, accept it.

by cardsrul on Apr 12, 2007 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

what about
reyes? If hawksworth starts to show some real progress in triple-a before the all-star break, would you be willing to deal reyes + (bullpen surplus and/or outfield prospects besides rasmus and jay)?

by Birds on the Matt on Apr 12, 2007 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

burrell's not a pipe dream
the phillies want to get rid of that contract. if they're out of contention ---- a big if, but time will tell --- he will be available to any team that is willing to pick up a chunk of payroll, and he won't cost premium prospects --- just $$$. (see last year's bobby abreu trade for exhibit A.) the cards do have the payroll clearance . . . . . that one's not so far-fetched. a few things would have to fall into place.

by lboros on Apr 12, 2007 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

A big "if"?
It's already a reality. They're 5 out and looking up at two teams with clearly superior talent in Atlanta and NY.

I wonder if the Phillies would be reluctant to deal with us because of Jocketty fleecing them in the past. They probably have forgotten where Carlton came from by now...

Acquire any Established Major League Starter!

by guayzimi on Apr 12, 2007 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Burrell is off to a good start this year
Actually hitting over .300, granted it won't last long.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Apr 12, 2007 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

pat the bat
I know that they are supposed to have the payroll clearance . . . but I just don't know that the powers that be will sign off on a deal where StL eats someone elses bad contract . . . the Cards will have to fulfill the state motto for me to believe---its the end of a long day (and perhaps I am just brain dead) but are there examples of deals where the Cards have taken on a sizeable "bad" contract?  

. . . incidentally, i much prefer the quirky lower case to the angry UPPERCASE . . .

" . . . that foul ball just landed in that lady's Busch." ~Shannon

by SprfldCards on Apr 12, 2007 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not that big of a stretch
He has 2007 and 2008 left on his contract.

He gets $13M this year and $14M next.  

In 2004, the Cardinals traded for Larry Walker who was due:

2004 - $12.5 M
2005 - $12.5 M
2006 - $15 M (club option)

The Cardinals worked out the deal so that they had to pay:

2004 - $4.17M
2005 - $6.75M
2006 - $1M (buyout)

Is Pat Burrell Larry Walker?  No.  Could be be more productive than Walker was in 2005? Possibly.  Walker was 37 and 38 when he was in St. Louis.  He provided 26 HR/79 RBI and a .919 OPS in 182 games.

Pat Burell is only 30 during this season and in his worst season provided 24 HR/64 RBI in 146 games.  

He's a solid player that in this current market, if the Cardinals could get the Phillies to eat $7 M over the remainder of the contract (before current year discounts for payments taken into account), Pat Burrell at $10 M a year for 25 HR/90 RBI doesn't seem too bad.  

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 12, 2007 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

wait...
... that won't work. yeah, the Phillies dumped Abreu's salary to the Yanks, but the Yanks also had to take Cory Lidle's salary. Abreu's salary was bigger than Burrell's - which provided a bigger incentive to dump it - and there is less motivation to dump Burrell now that Abreu is gone. having two monstrous contracts on a losing team is a much bigger burden than having one. and i can't imagine the Phils would eat half of Burrell's '08 salary when replacing Burrell would cost 8-10 million (at least) and multiple years anyway. if they eat any salary, they'll want prospects. and we aren't giving any up.

anyways, why do we want Burrell? to platoon with Dunc/JED? sure, his power numbers are better than Enc's, but he's got triple the salary, his career OPS is .843. it has been higher the last two years, likely because his SLG is 50 points higher from playing in Citizen's Bank instead of Veterans, but the last two years at Veterans his OPS was .713 and .820, which is pretty similar to Juan's production (career .750 OPS). Enc's glove is better, and he can play all three OF positions. so you'd be replacing JED or Duncan in most games that Burrell plays; i don't think Enc would lose much playing time.

(you'd take some time away from P-Dub/Gooch/Skip, but the Cards aren't going to bring in Burrell's contract to start once a week.)

i just don't see how it makes sense, unless we send Encarnacion someplace else.  

by kindred on Apr 12, 2007 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Outfield
A name that just keeps circulating in my head lately for trade options is Ken Griffey Jr. I know it just sounds outlandish but he could be available for the right price if the Reds struggle, or Josh Hamilton plays his way into the everyday lineup. Somebody is gonna get forced out of that outfield. I would rather pry Adam Dunn from the Reds, but Griffey would look friggin good in this lineup and make an immediate impact in right field and spell Edmonds in center when he needs rest. An issue would be his backloaded contract (ends in 08 at 16.5 mil yikes) but if we give the right price we could get the Reds to eat some of it. I would still prefer to make a serious run at Tejada, but it looks like a great option if we can pull a Larry Walker type deal. (Who knows he could hit waivers)

by Bullet Bob Gibson on Apr 12, 2007 4:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Griffey has...
$29 million coming to him and a he has a no-trade, which players don't typically waive for nothing. The Reds are going to have to pick up almost all of that, then accept so-so prospects in return. They've tried to trade him in the past, but his value is negligible at this point. He's probably no better than a healthy Encarnacion at this point...

The best answer is a deal with the Phillies for Lieber and Burrell. Pick up all the money and send any minor leaguer they want not named Colby or Jaime.

Acquire any Established Major League Starter!

by guayzimi on Apr 12, 2007 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Junior
would certainly be interesting . . . but if we got him, we could end up with nothing but two centerfielders who were once amazingly (is that a word? :) great cf but who are now on the serious decline . . .
" . . . that foul ball just landed in that lady's Busch." ~Shannon

by SprfldCards on Apr 12, 2007 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can't we avoid more of the problems
that Edmonds creates right now?  I'd like a guy who will play every day.

by sdrone on Apr 12, 2007 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Black Holes and Cool Zones
I started a comment regarding the available chart of "Cool Zones" on cbs gamecenter.  It got too long and made it a diary comparing gamecenter and gameday etc.
Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Apr 12, 2007 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Impact trades
I have been wrong before, but I find it hard to believe the cardinals have the talent to give up for a big bat, and frankly that isn't Jock's MO.  

Besides, I think it is just as likely that we'll be selling at the trade deadline.

by Zubin on Apr 12, 2007 9:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Springfield Cards
if anyone is interested . . . without the big club playing tonight, you can get a birds on the bat fix courtesy of the double a club . . . listen at http://www.jock987.net/
" . . . that foul ball just landed in that lady's Busch." ~Shannon

by SprfldCards on Apr 12, 2007 9:23 PM EDT reply actions  

OF 2 cents
not sure if anyone did but did anyone pick up shannon stewart? Not sure hes a huge bat but healthy think he can add some pop and better D thansomeofthe guys mentioned. I know health is an issue so adding another health possibility would be a risk...but if hes available why not give him the wait and see sort of deal?

I like another poster don't see a huge deal getting done this could be this years version of waiting for that big upgrade that never comes while they tinker with projects...Wilson,Weaver guys etc..

I'll hang up and listen...

Kenny is a "dirt" bag?

by punchinjudy on Apr 12, 2007 10:32 PM EDT reply actions  

stewart
went to oakland.
"God is back in the National League. Matter of fact, he is staying at my house." -Joaquin Andujar

by SleepyCA on Apr 12, 2007 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

thanks
like i said i wasnt sure if he'd signed, i thought he was worth the gamble during the off season
Kenny is a "dirt" bag?

by punchinjudy on Apr 12, 2007 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

no trade
not that im advocating a griffey trade but im not so sure that he has a no-trade clause.  if i remember correctly the trade with san diego was voided cause of phil nevins no trade clause.  i could be wrong but im pretty sure thats what went down.
If you dont have outstanding relief pitching, you might as well piss on the fire and call the dogs....Whitey Herzog

by El Capitan on Apr 13, 2007 12:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Grif
Even if the cards did have what it took to make that deal, would anyone do an inter-division trade like that? I just don't see it happening.
Kenny is a "dirt" bag?

by punchinjudy on Apr 13, 2007 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Belly
Of course it's early, but in three games he has more hits then his replacement will probably have for the month.  Let's hope The California kid gets his act together.  As for now I miss Belly's mojo.

by Yadier on Apr 13, 2007 1:32 AM EDT reply actions  

Just thought you guys might get a kick out of this
After a bogus trade on yahoo fantasy baseball...

It came to my mind that you may not be able to read what i sent you earlier today...I sent...KC I'm not trying to be an ass but, it was papelbon and timlin, not papelbon and rivera, for halladay and zambrano. OH, and thanks for the nasty e-mail. The deal wasn't to my liking, so i declined it, no reason to get upset about it...To which you replied..."so is that a counter offer or are you done"?...
No, that was not a counter offer, if you can read the fine print, well, that's bold face print actually.(I doubt you could read it either way) I was just trying to explain my actions...No matter, either way, its effing fantasy baseball...Is it really that important to write me two nasty e-mails about this...If so, #1get a life...#2Try to find a girl. It might help you deal with some of the pent up rage you have...#3Learn something about baseball...it might be use full when you try to make some trades(i could give you some pointers).#4 You may want to take some sort of college credit lit. class, because apparently your high school doesn't teach you how to read deeply into a sentence(good luck with paragraphs).  Anyways, that's all I've got for now...            

by dan8260 on Apr 13, 2007 2:51 AM EDT reply actions  

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