Building A Bullpen - Part 1
My goal over the next few weeks is to focus on bullpens. I'm going to look at them from a variety of angles and hopefully provide you with some insight (if I find any) regarding what makes a good bullpen. Let me be upfront about two things: I don't think smart teams build bullpens with a) older players or b) free agents. Those are my preconceived notions and I'm more than willing to put them to the test because I acknowledge them and think they're right. I've been meaning to give this a go for a while but time constraints have prevented me from doing so. Reading this article by Geoff Young over at The Hardball Times spurred me into action.
I was really frustrated reading that article because the logical framework that he starts up with becomes exceedingly muddy after about three paragraphs. He begins by citing the large contracts handed out to Danys Baez and Jaime Walker by the Orioles last year. He says:
I went and looked for some defense independent statistics that are cumulative for bullpens. I found that ESPN has team DIPS information that can be sorted for relief. Check out their stats glossary for a brief explanation. I didn't want to stop there though. I also wanted to adjust for parks. Places like PETCO can make pitchers look better than they are with their spacious outfields. In fact that turned out to be exactly the case as the Padres ranked first in DIPS before park-adjustment but only 13th afterwards. So maybe they aren't such a good example after all so much as they are in a fantastic pitcher's park. I don't like ESPN's park factors so I used Baseball Reference's yearly park factors. You'll see that I do my best to bastardize statistics as often as possible. There's typically some volatility in bullpens so the core relievers aren't always there from year to year. I didn't want to rely on a single year's worth of data so I decided to find the best bullpen's across 2006 & 2007 combined. You can download the spreadsheet here.
| Rank | Team | DIPS Average | Rank | Team | DIPS Average | |
| 1 | Dodgers | 3.69 | 16 | Phillies | 4.11 | |
| 2 | Twins | 3.79 | 17 | Royals | 4.11 | |
| 3 | Cubs | 3.80 | 18 | Mariners | 4.12 | |
| 4 | Blue Jays | 3.82 | 19 | Tigers | 4.14 | |
| 5 | Indians | 3.82 | 20 | Brewers | 4.15 | |
| 6 | Red Sox | 3.83 | 21 | Cardinals | 4.21 | |
| 7 | Rockies | 3.84 | 22 | Braves | 4.21 | |
| 8 | Mets | 3.87 | 23 | Pirates | 4.24 | |
| 9 | Diamondbacks | 3.91 | 24 | Giants | 4.25 | |
| 10 | Angels | 3.94 | 25 | Yankees | 4.37 | |
| 11 | Rangers | 3.99 | 26 | Marlins | 4.38 | |
| 12 | White Sox | 3.99 | 27 | Reds | 4.41 | |
| 13 | Padres | 4.02 | 28 | Nationals | 4.44 | |
| 14 | Athletics | 4.05 | 29 | Rays | 4.78 | |
| 15 | Astros | 4.10 | 30 | Orioles | 4.88 |
I knew that the Dodgers had a good pen (although not that good) built around Japanese import Takashi Saito and young flame-thrower Jonathan Broxton. Does it surprise anyone that the Twins are second? Not me. The Cubs surprised me quite a bit but I'm just following where the numbers are leading me. The Blue Jays at #4 bought BJ Ryan for an absurd amount in 2006 but he missed all of 2007 with an injury. If you look at the yearly data, their DIPS adjusted for park jumps by a half run from 2006 to 2007. Indians and Red Sox at 5 & 6 -- that seems like a pretty good model. The Cardinals come in at 21 (a suspicion I had heading into this was that they would rank poorly). Personally, I like the methods that the Padres employ to find their relievers (under-appreciated soft-tossers, quirky delivery guys, etc.) but the method works, in part, because of PETCO.
The Orioles really do suck -- fiercely -- but I think it's poor analysis to lay that at the feet of Baez and Walker. There' are a variety of reasons that they can be bad and while I don't think Baez or Walker were good signings, I want to know what makes them poor signings. Two teams in rebuilding modes (Nats, Rays) follow the Orioles and then we have the Reds coming in at number 27. Wayne Krivsky seems to have a reliever fetish most recently exhibited by the Francisco Cordero signing. Cordero is a great reliever but a quick glance at my other spreadsheet (you can't have this one yet) shows that the relievers over 30 are scarce among those top 3 relief teams. That's not even to speak of relievers 32 and over -- it's not many.
Looking at the DIPS list those teams at the end seem like they belong there and the teams at the beginning seem like rational examples as well. I haven't finished crunching all my numbers but next week we'll look at the statistics behind the relievers in each of the top 3 pens. There's a significant jump after the Dodgers and although the separation between 2 and 8 is minimal that's where I'm drawing my arbitrary line in the sand. In subsequent posts, we'll look at the composition of some of these bullpens and individual reliever data.
0 recs |
75 comments
Comments
Great read, azru
by Mr Redbird on Dec 7, 2007 4:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That is pretty strange
I guess between subpar years from our lefties and so many bullpen innings going to Ryan Franklin, who's more reliant on his defense than your typical setup man on a multi-year contract, that whatever improvements Izzy and Springer contributed are more than wiped out, DIPS-wise.
by liam on Dec 7, 2007 4:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The good
Jimenez, Wells, Maroth, the guy that looked like Hancock but was actually Mexican... Besides Miles and Spiez, we had a terrible mop up crew. And unfortunately, there were a lot of blow outs not in our favor..
Mike Maroth in relief alone had to skew those nimbers by -.5.
by Alxfritz on Dec 7, 2007 4:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How could I forget Nice Guy Maroth
by Mr Redbird on Dec 7, 2007 4:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
AZ bullpen, other notes
I remember the Cubs GM was blasted for signing Howry and ?Eyre a few years ago under the rationale of chasing MR with 3 yr deals is a futility exercise due to the volitility in relievers. From fantasy baseball, it seems Howry has worked out for them.
I've heard a theory that a good bullpen doesn't have the best pitcher as closer (ala Tigers/Cubs) but has up-and-coming flamethrowers as setup guys. LA has this with Broxton, Zumaya (sp?) in Detroit, and Marmol in Chi. Broxton and Marmol were both SPs in the minors but maybe didn't have 3 strong pitches. I know that's why Broxton got converted to relief work.
by Recon on Dec 7, 2007 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Your first paragraph might explain
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 7, 2007 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is another theory
I think what it goes to show is that the way baseball is today you need a "good half" of the bullpen that is very effective, or you're in trouble late in games.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 7, 2007 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The "Fireman Strategy"
by liam on Dec 7, 2007 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
problem is...
catch-22.
by kindred on Dec 7, 2007 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd rather put it all on the table
by erik on Dec 7, 2007 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sort of
Good: Izzy, Springer, Percival
Terrible: Maroth, Jimenez, Cavazos
Those three were so bad (82R in 69ip) that they basically sunk the whole pens average by themselves.
Now that means it should be easy to improve the team in this area. Worrell or Perez would be an upgrade in any of those spots.
by DriverZn on Dec 7, 2007 4:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting Table Az
Regardless, Building a Pen necessitates a good appreciation of the task at hand. If you could have predicted before the season (and some did) that the Card's starters would contribute toward a ballclub that would set various records for blowout losses, then you might rethink the roles and makeup of your Pen. A pen designed for Loogy's and double switches, will take a beating when miscast for long relief.
Izzy had a terrific bounce back year, but unfortunately the Card's were dead last in SVO. Bizarrely enough, the Nats lead in that category with SVO equal to W's, while being only 28th on your table above.
It might be interesting to show the average number of runs behind at the time that mid relief is given the ball, and in what inning that takes place, in addition to the percentage of time that the pen surrendered a lead. If the pen is also tasked with giving innings to demoted or rehabing starters, in addition to frequent mop up duty on getaway day disasters, it won't leave pretty stats. I'm just glad that Speez ended up with the best record out of last season's debacle.
Thanks Az, we'll be looking for part 2.
by Birds on the Bat on Dec 7, 2007 8:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Question Azru
by mikedallas23 on Dec 7, 2007 9:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Also forgot to add
by mikedallas23 on Dec 7, 2007 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ideally, I'd use WXRL
by azruavatar on Dec 7, 2007 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No problem
To generate your own reports, you can go to the statistics page, then under the "custom reports" dropdown menu select team pitching. Then select the categories that you want in the report, click the arrow to add them to "your selections", and then hit the "submit statistics selection" button.
by mikedallas23 on Dec 7, 2007 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mucho gracias
by azruavatar on Dec 7, 2007 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't think so
by mikedallas23 on Dec 7, 2007 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's a counting stat as well
by azruavatar on Dec 7, 2007 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To what degree is our bullpen's DIPS
by chuckb on Dec 7, 2007 9:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I know this is off subject
I read a rumor yesterday that Brian Roberts could be on the trade block for Baltimore. Anyone else heard this?
He would be the perfect fit for us. A solid lead off man that plays 2B. Also, he is a SPEED DEMON. I would love to see the Cards go after him.
I know that we already have Kennedy under contract, but I think if we could acquire someone like Roberts it would be worth having Kennedy on the bench (for $3 million a year, ugh).
Even if he is not on the block, the O's would probably listen to offers for him.Maybe this is the kind of guy we could put an OF and Reyes (although I hate the thought of trading a young Reyes) package together to get him.
Any thoughts?
by plaz on Dec 7, 2007 9:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Brian Roberts
Pay extra for the good lead-off hitter with speed. I'd trade Dunc straight up for him now and throw in more.
I don't care what they do with AK
by Hinkster on Dec 7, 2007 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs
I don't know what Baltimore is in need of, but if STL has some players of interest it may be worth a shot depending on what Baltimore wants.
Roberts is 30 years old which is not ancient. He definitely has way better numbers than Kennedy even excluding 2007 for Adam. It would be worth a shot, and I would hope STL would take a look. Kennedy's contract is insignificant because if you can get a better option you need to get it. You have to pay Kennedy if he plays or doesn't.
by ICbirdfan on Dec 7, 2007 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hate to say it...
by duncansarmy on Dec 7, 2007 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
bigger fish to fry
by dmb60614 on Dec 7, 2007 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
correction
when is firefox going to add a grammar check as well?
by dmb60614 on Dec 7, 2007 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no lead-off hitter
by Hinkster on Dec 7, 2007 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who is going to hit leadoff this year?
Maybe Barton, but I doubt he will start initially...
Please, not Izturis!
by bobtheking on Dec 7, 2007 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
Still an average OBP (which, on this team, is better than average). His power has dropped more than a bit, which means we would miss him less in a heart-of-the-order spot.
He strikes out a lot, but he still sees his share of pitches, works counts. Not much speed, but still a good baserunner.
I'm thinking as I'm writing here, but as of right now, Barton is the best option. The earliest, if at all, that he would be batting in the one spot is some time at the end of the first half of the season...if I know TLR.
Why not Edmonds?
by arch support on Dec 7, 2007 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crap
That'll teach me to type slow.
Reeeeeeaaaaaaaal sssslllloooooowwww.
by arch support on Dec 7, 2007 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Leadoff hitters...
by Red Blazer on Dec 7, 2007 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what about the rotation?
by dmb60614 on Dec 7, 2007 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
O/T
It seems about half the time I try to open a diary, it opens but I can't see any comments. Same with the front page stuff. Open it, main post but no comments there, go back to main page, try again, comments there.
by RedbirdRay on Dec 7, 2007 10:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes
by gonzostl on Dec 7, 2007 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if it keeps happening let me know
by lboros on Dec 7, 2007 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oddly enough
by Hinkster on Dec 7, 2007 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Could it be the advertisements?
If that's the case, it's a problem with the advertiser's server. It got bad for me at one point last year so I installed the firefox adblocker doohickey to skip them from my laptop.
Not installed on this box and things are loading smoothly today.
by liam on Dec 7, 2007 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no problems for me
by dmb60614 on Dec 7, 2007 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mozilla works
Hardly ever crashes, and if something else of Microsoft causes a shut down, you can come back and restore all the same windows. And you get a spell check editor to work with veb posting.
Won't go back.
by Birds on the Bat on Dec 7, 2007 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a random bug on firefox
It's quite annoying and almost certainly due to the ad server, since it only happens on VEB and is always showing ad.somethign.com in the location bar when it freezes...
by SleepyCA on Dec 7, 2007 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
adblock plus
If not - it's a must get. Free add-ons rock!
by silent_bob on Dec 7, 2007 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the interesting thing to me
kevin cameron was a rule 5er.
Cla meredith was from a trade for a backup catcher.
heath bell was traded for nothing.
linebrink was a failed starting, now making big FA bucks from the W Sox.
by erik on Dec 7, 2007 11:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
and they just got carlos guevera in the rule 5
by erik on Dec 7, 2007 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm....
by realbrit70 on Dec 7, 2007 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really can't wait to see what P.J. can do
by Red Blazer on Dec 7, 2007 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Location
Has anyone seen him pitch live?
I would like to see his approach.
by ICbirdfan on Dec 7, 2007 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
his approach
by Dave Barry on Dec 7, 2007 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
w/r/t...
it obviously makes little sense for marginal or rebuilding teams to spend money there if they have bigger concerns (unless they have a lot of solid position-player prospects that just need a year or two to development), and it doesn't make sense for small market teams to drop a lot on relievers.
but i think it make sense for teams in certain scenarios. first, if you expect to contend for the playoffs (and be in the playoffs), then a lock-down bullpen can be the difference. for example, the Astros teams from '04-'05 had horrible offenses. their starters, other than Oswalt, usually couldn't go especially deep into games. upgrading either the SP or offense with truly impact players was probably impossible given their budget. but their bullpen was so lights-out from the 6th-9th that could could get 5+ from their starters and few runs and still win every game 2-1 or 3-2. without the permutations of Wagner/Dotel/Lidge/Qualls/Springer, that team wouldn't've been in contention in those years. with them, they made it to an LCS and World Series despite an anemic offense. the Padres have been playoff contenders in recent years despite poor offenses for much the same reason (although their SP, from top to bottom, is probably superior to those Astros teams).
similarly, teams with potent offenses but weak starting pitching can benefit a lot from strong bullpens. in that regard, i actually think that the Reds' strategy isn't too horrible. they can't afford to buy all the best SP on the FA market, but their offense has been strong enough that a really strong bullpen could steal them some games even if their starters get behind early. in a weak division, or in the Wild Card race, those marginal games can make the difference.
so, for a team with budget constraints and a possibility of contending , it might be a lot easier to significantly upgrade a bullpen than to get impact position players or SP. obviously, a lot of the Reds' specific gambles have been unwise (Majewski, Guardado, etc.), but the strategy itself makes some sense.
by kindred on Dec 7, 2007 3:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree the Reds did what they
by jillsinmo on Dec 8, 2007 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A leadoff batter
I love his power, obviously, but might he be more useful getting on base in front of Pujols in our upcoming Year of Crappiness?
I'd prefer to use him lower in the lineup, but he seems to do pretty well when cutting down his swing.
by sdrone on Dec 7, 2007 4:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agree
And with the pitcher batting ninth last year, La Russa has shown he's not opposed to less-than-conventional lineups.
I don't think we'd miss Jimmy's bat in the heart of the order that much, given how much his power has dropped.
by arch support on Dec 7, 2007 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Good chance Jimmy strikes out and now the Cardinals may be looking at Ankiel batting #2 who is a strike out waiting to happen. So basically Albert will have a lot of ABs with nobody on and two outs.
by ICbirdfan on Dec 7, 2007 4:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How direct
Edmonds has struck out alot throughout his whole career, yet always gets on base at a decent, or better, clip.
Same with someone like Adam Dunn: strikes out a ton, gets on base all the time.
Ankiel may be an issue in the two hole unless he can increase his walks. But that's independent of his k rate.
But Edmonds' k's don't necessarily mean he doesn't get on base.
I'd argue with J-Ed batting first, Pujols will come up with runners on more often than last year.
Not that that's saying much.
by arch support on Dec 7, 2007 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
K's are more strongly correlated
But you're correct -- Edmonds has always had a high, high OBP -- of course he was hitting between .260 and .290. He had a lot of K's and a high OBP. Edmonds isn't a bad idea at all -- the K's are irrelevant in my mind. If he can put together a high OBP -- definitely questionable at this point (definitely questionable?) -- he's probably the best candidate we have. Last year he was abysmal and never got on base. It depends on what we get from Jim.
by chuckb on Dec 7, 2007 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Generally
Edmonds season average rate is 61 BB: 106 SO, which is not god awful. His Pitchers per plate appearance actually was better than ECKS.
Maybe Jimmy could do it. I guess he OBP is probably going to be better than Kennedy, Ryan, or Izturis.
Heck it actually may be a good idea to bat him there.
by ICbirdfan on Dec 7, 2007 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ank...
if Barton sticks, he might be an option. he's put decent OBP at every level (he struggled a bit in 25 games at AAA last year, but that's a small sample and he was hurt). thing is, i doubt he's gonna play that much.
Ludwick's OBP last year was .339. not very good, but that makes him one of the top options on the Cards. Spiezio's OBP the last two years was .366 and .354. If Rolen gets traded, or Spiezio ends up playing a lot all over the field, that could be an option. but i think TLR likes Spiezio to pinch-hit. Edmonds' OBP the past four years go like this: .418/.385/.350/.325. He should be batting in the 5th-6th spot. Ryan's OBP last year was .347, which is right in line with his career minor league numbers.
if the season started today, i'd like to see this general order:
- Ryan
- Duncan
- Pujols
- Rolen
- Edmonds/Ludwick
- Ankiel
- Molina
- Pitcher
- Kennedy
- Spiezio (2b)
- Duncan
- Pujols
- Rolen
- Edmonds/Ludwick
- Ankiel
- Molina
- Pitcher
- Izturis
- Schumaker
- Barton
- Pujols
- Rolen
- Molina
- Ryan
- Spiezio (LF)
- Pitcher
- Izturis
by kindred on Dec 7, 2007 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd swap duncan and rolen
Also, FWIW Ludwick had a .359 OBP after 1 Jun and a .380 OBP from 1 Jul on. He fits TLR's prototypical #2 guy mold, and put Rolen 5th.
edmonds
ludwick
apu
duncan
rolen
...
by SleepyCA on Dec 7, 2007 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
those are some atrocious lineups
by willievinceterry on Dec 7, 2007 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Take a Walk
by realbrit70 on Dec 7, 2007 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
those lineups...
by willievinceterry on Dec 7, 2007 10:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No to Edmonds
by Red in Chicago on Dec 7, 2007 4:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree JEd should not bat lead off....
Last year he started the season with virtually no spring training coming off of two surgeries. He turned 37 during the season. Nevertheless, I had this sneaking feeling that he looked pretty good at the end of the year. I went back and pulled his stat line after 7/31 and it looked like this: .291/.366/.569 with an OPS of .936
If you take his production for that period and extrapolate to 450 ABs you get 16HR and 84 RBI.
Now, I am not predicting Jimmy will put up an OPS of .936 over a full season, but my point is that he is not quite done yet. With a healthy off-season it would not surprise me to see JEd be a key contributor next season and a significant run producer.
That being said, I would still trade anybody in the right deal. Let's just make sure we know what he is still capable of when estimating his value. I don't think he is done and I won't be upset if he is our starting CF most of the time.
by giveml on Dec 7, 2007 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree...
3B, SS, 2B, C, RF, and the starting rotation are the problems.
by kindred on Dec 7, 2007 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
other than that they should be great
by punchinjudy on Dec 7, 2007 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He wasn't quite that good ;)
Actual numbers were .292/.362/.465 .827 OPS
Not MVP caliber like your original numbers, but i agree, he's not dead yet either.
by SleepyCA on Dec 7, 2007 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for cleaning that up
by giveml on Dec 7, 2007 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still good numbers...
by Red Blazer on Dec 7, 2007 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey
Talk about it here! We have a great sports forum that just started last week and we already have 166 members. We really have started well. We have forums for MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL, college sports, general sports, music, movies, gernal talk, etc. However, we need more members to insure we stay active. We have a Baseball Mogul 2008 league, an MLB trade center, and a fastbreak basketball league all on our sports forum. Thanks for your time and I hope I see you there!
www.overtimesports.tk
Teams Open in Trade Center: TOR, TBD, DET, KCR, MIN, SEA, TEX, FLA, CHC, CIN, HOU, STL, PIT, ARI, SFG
Register and post in the Trade Center section under GM Sign ups.
Teams are also open in Mogul league and nba fastbreak.
Please Register!
by Cardsfan255 on Dec 7, 2007 11:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by 

















