The last thread on diaries

by erik on Dec 5, 2007 8:28 AM EST Comment 49 comments

Update [2007-12-5 9:32:33 by lboros]: comments frozen.

there is obviously a very strong rift about the culture of diaries on this site. it got ugly yesterday, and i was unavailable to step in and restore order. we're gonna take a poll and resolve this once and for all. here's the link ---

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/poll_vote/1196864677_xJvzUjRy

i'll abide by the majority. in the meantime ---- please refrain from posting a new diary unless you really have something original to say. and no, "ken rosenthal says" is not an original thought. put things like that in the main thread. i'll be policing closely today.

let's resolve this and move on.[end update]

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Hey all,

Erik here. I am taking the initiative to start this thread for all things rumor regarding that are going on during the current winter meetings. It's funny, because now it appears our main man Mo seems to be suffering from "paralysis from analysis" and maybe the rumors will start drying up considering he's being too greedy regarding Rolen, IMO and he's not trying to shop Anthony Reyes.

http://tinyurl.com/2xrtut

If he won't make a trade, he's going to have to move to the free agent market, and I for one am not exciting about Kyle Lohse at 3 years, $30 mil or whatever crazy amount he may cost.

Please, please, please post all things rumors here so we can stop the endless diaries, and stop the snarking at each other. Cool? Cool.

One other thing that is a pet peeve of mine, but it's not my blog so I don't know what lboros thinks--- can we do better at posting links? learn to format html, or let tiny url be your friend. URL's with like 40 characters are just kinda ugly.

Good night, and good gravy P.S. Use this diary, or Amaury Cazana Marti will suddenly destroy you, and that without remedy.

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You're a god, erik

I don't care what azru says about you! :)

by chuckb on Dec 4, 2007 11:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

what does he say about me...

oh, now my feelings are hurt...

i'll kick it off. robothal is saying rolen to the dodgers. one major hang up there...larry bowa.

http://tinyurl.com/2zdc44

chad billingsley anyone? giants could be in the mix, but i'd hope we could do better then noah lowry. jonathan sanchez interests me....

Future Redbirds

by erik on Dec 4, 2007 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i would listen to rosenthal

he usually has a knack for knowing what he's talking about.

thanks for creating this erik, i wanted to come home tonight and read up on what's been going on the past five hours and all i got was a mess of diaries on the same topic.

...now if we could just the people to follow along

by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 4, 2007 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That Bowa thing

is hilarious! I didn't even think of that. Rolen may run to him in open arms by saying, "I never realized how great you were!" Or, he might decline to go to the Dodgers.

I've always liked Sanchez as well, but I'd say Sanchez AND Lowry. Still, I'd rather have Billingsley.

by chuckb on Dec 4, 2007 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm with you...

... neither Sanchez nor Lowry is enough, especially if the Cards eat some salary. but both might be too much. my question is, why in the hell would the Giants take on Rolen's salary and risk? they need to get younger and cheaper, not older and riskier. or maybe Sabean has got a blank check, and just wants to make the team respectable this year before breaking the bank in the next year or two.

Dodgers don't make a whole lot of sense either, since they've already got Nomar and LaRoche. they seem to dislike both of them, but i don't understand how Rolen is more sure of a bet. perhaps LaRoche would come this way in a deal (which I would love), and they'll hedge their bets with Nomar and ScoRo.

The Bowa thing is interesting, but it was years ago, and Torre is the one in charge, not Bowa. Still, for the Cards to get any kind of value, they're going to have to eat some salary.

by kindred on Dec 4, 2007 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this

deserves its own thread and finally someone who realizes lowry is overrated.

by bigboy1234 on Dec 4, 2007 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget the Angels

Rosenthal also mentions the Angels are talking about Rolen as well.

Could we get Chone Figgens in a deal?

I have a feeling Mo is going to deal Rolen to one of the California teams tomorrow. I just hope we can get someone that can actually help the club in return.

by KYCards on Dec 4, 2007 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

damn the rumors erik,

you are a scholar & a gentleman

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Dec 5, 2007 2:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Reyes

I know it's just your opinion, Erik, but if Mo seriously isn't trying to shop Reyes, I'm going to be livid. He's a solid trading chip that we have; he needs to be shopped.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Dec 4, 2007 11:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Did you go to the tiny url?

Mo seems to be concerned that he's not getting offered enough for Reyes. That folks are looking at last year--and that makes it a tough sell. Add to that what I've been saying for MONTHS now, but they have been way too vocal, and quoted in print no less, about how disappointed they were with him. They have made comments that they were trying to trade him dating back to early 2006. Go look at what MLB trade rumors had to say about Reyes not being in their plans-it started a long time ago. And I don't know how to "tiny url" so I'm not even going to try to link it. I get way too worked up over Reyes because he should have been either a useful pitcher for us, or a nice trade chip for someone else.

They don't want him, everyone knows they don't want him and they are surprised that they value him more internally than the other teams-because the other teams KNOW that's not true. They have never acted in any way EVER that they value him.

There's no doubt that there would be interest in him because his success at AAA is recent, even this year, and some team would take a chance on him for that reason alone, to hell that it hasn't happened in the show. But not now.

He's worth nothing by himself except a mid level prospect or a fringy major leaguer. That part I don't blame Reyes for. He kept his mouth shut. If only the Cardinals would have done the same.

by jillsinmo on Dec 5, 2007 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"they" = Jock...

... not Mo.

perhaps Mo has a higher opinion of Reyes than Jock had.

by kindred on Dec 5, 2007 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They=Jock, LaRussa, and Duncan.

At this point it doesn't matter what Mo thinks he's worth. His field management is already on record-they don't want him. He ain't getting anything without making him part of a package.

by jillsinmo on Dec 5, 2007 8:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

regarding tinyurl...

Unless an url is long enough to stretch the page format, I hate it. It makes it impossible to tell what web page is going to open when you click it, making surfing from work dangerous.

Actual [a href=] links are fine, of course, because you can look at the bottom of the browser window and see what is going to open when you click them...

It's easier not to make the mistake than to make the mistake and try to fix it. -Mo

by SleepyCA on Dec 4, 2007 11:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

re the tinyurl links

neither one in this diary is working for me; they both lead to an error page.

by lboros on Dec 5, 2007 7:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

work fine for me

hmph..i don't know what's up with that.

Future Redbirds

by erik on Dec 5, 2007 8:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i am using IE

could that be the problem?

by lboros on Dec 5, 2007 8:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I cringe a little

with all this talk about trading Rolen when I don't see a workable solution at third base. I favor just riding it out till spring training and seeing if he is OK. Forget the La Russa feud, both are professionals and Rolen will perform if he is healthy. In almost 60 years of following baseball I have never seen anyone I thought was superior to him. Maybe Brooks Robinson, (he was flashy) but Robinson never had the arm of Rolen and was no more steady. La Roache, I can see maybe a good deal if it could be pulled off. Some of you experts offer a third base solution if Rolen goes for a 5th starter, which is about the best to hope for.

by ridgesee on Dec 5, 2007 12:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

i actually like that Mo is being demanding

i wouldn't call it greedy. if he would have pulled the trigger on the capuano deal we would have missed out. now that miggy has been traded (and to a team not publicly going after him), rolen has more suitors than jessica alba. angels, dodgers, giants, etc... all these teams have good young pitchers and position players that they are willing to give up. we have all seen the trades that have gone on already. there are gms that are willing to give up way too much to get something they want. and while rolen/reyes is not as valuable as miggy/willis i think it could still bring a good haul. i'm very encouraged.

by FutureMan on Dec 5, 2007 12:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

yikes

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/tuck-sez-oh-and-brendan-ryans-agent-is-on-line-three/

i'm actually fairly content with mo so far, except for the izturis signing

by johnstonburg on Dec 5, 2007 12:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Including LaRue is a cheap shot

He's a backup catcher. Who cares? He's a warm body and he cost under a million dollars.

Though in the future, I'd hope the Cardinals would consider me as a backup catcher. I played catcher in little league and would be willing to accept league minimum.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Dec 5, 2007 2:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Erik

Thanks for doing this, let's hope it sticks. people say "if you don't like the diaries, ignore them", but that ignores the problem of 50 showing up per day to try to weed thru.

The Dodgers are, and have been, my favorite target for awhile. I think Rolen would actually help put them over the top this year, and they could give good value back - enough good value that even eating some of Rolen's salary would be OK. Win-Win for everyone. Billz might be a little much to ask for, but a package of LaRoche and someone like James McDondal would be OK.

Minor critique - you tell people to link, but don't tell them how. I've got a real job, no time to pick up html formatting. If it's that important to you, tell us how to do it ;)

by siddfynch on Dec 5, 2007 12:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Essentially

writing yahoo would send someone to yahoo

I will be brief.

by Alxfritz on Dec 5, 2007 1:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, hell

that didn't work at all. Damn code codes. See here.

I will be brief.

by Alxfritz on Dec 5, 2007 1:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Or just use this...

How to embed a descriptive link in your text:

<a href="PASTE_YOUR_URL_HERE">Type_your_description_here</a>

For example, typing:
Looks like somebody needs to <a href="http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/special/guidelines">read the guidelines</a> if you ask me.

Results in:
Looks like somebody needs to read the guidelines if you ask me.

Tips:

It's usually better to make sure you have quotes around the web page's URL
Paste the entire URL...including the http:// part
Feel free to simply copy and paste the first example above and then just replace the two underscored parts with your URL and your description

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Dec 5, 2007 4:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Real World

I know many people are high on getting Laroche and even go as far as to believe Billingsley is attainable in a Rolen trade. As much as I would LOVE that, how realistic is it? First, how realistic is trading Rolen for Laroche, if we assume some of Rolen's contract. Second, How realistic is it to get both Laroche and Billingsley if we package Rolen - say with Duncan or any number of trade pieces - Reyes, Looper, TJ, Anderson, etc. I believe that if we pull of a Raloche and Billingsley trade with Rolen and any combo of our tradable players, we are an absolutely better team. Also, When of of our outfielders are traded, does anyone like the idea of Nady? What do you think the pirates would want for him? I love him against left handed pitching, and he can play all 3 outfield positions, need be. What do you think is realistic for Laroche/Billingsley, or both? Laroche, Billingsley, and Nady - make me proud Mo.......

by sleepl355 on Dec 5, 2007 12:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't

think Billingsley is available. I just think we all want him to be because he could end up being really good.

I have heard rumors that they have soured on LaRoche, and I've seen him included in a bunch of rumors.

by Toddius396 on Dec 5, 2007 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

I didn't think Billingsley was available.....I didn't even know we showed any official interest in Laroche. He would obvious be a great catch. Where did you read that we soured on Laroche?

by sleepl355 on Dec 5, 2007 1:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think he means

That the Dodgers have soured on LaRoche, not us.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Dec 5, 2007 2:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah,

Makes more sense......

by sleepl355 on Dec 5, 2007 2:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Now, if the Dodgers would give us LaRoche

in exchange for Rolen and his contract, now we're talking.

I just really don't understand how Scott Rolen could be so thin skinned about his situation in St. Louis.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Dec 5, 2007 1:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

He seems like a pretty complex guy. But really, what gives with the personality conflict? Is there really no way to patch things up?

If there is really nothing that can be done, well, I'd love to see LaRoche. But it doesn't jive with Moz's starting pitching goal.

by airhad on Dec 5, 2007 1:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pitching is the goal

But assuming we trade Rolen we've got to sign someone to play third next season. Might as well get it in the trade.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Dec 5, 2007 2:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2 for 2

Man, you are on the money! This is exactly what I was thinking; Rolen initially was not on our to-do-list, so I would think it would be best to get an MLB ready 3rd basemen in a Rolen trade. Otherwise, you will hear a thousand more (right, may i add) posts about the gaping hole at 3rd. We need pitching, but we also need a 3rd basemen.

by sleepl355 on Dec 5, 2007 2:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh Boy

Now you're TALKIN! I think this would be a steal. But how possible is it? Also, Interested in Dodgers pitching? Hong-Chih Kuo for one one our outfielders? Bullpen help from the left side?

by sleepl355 on Dec 5, 2007 1:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's not that shocking...

Rolen has a history of not liking being told what to do, and getting along poorly with managers that are strict.

Tony has a history of telling players exactly what to do (including whether they are really injured or not), and if they don't like it, he'll bad mouth them in the press.

Rolen could put up with it if the Cardinals were winning. But in a train wreck year like 2008 will be, it's going to be ugly and painful

by DiscoJer on Dec 5, 2007 2:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Strauss says Rolen likely staying put

Apparently Mo is upset about his perceived lack of value.

Link

It also seems Rolen was only willing to waive his NTC clause to go to a contender, which I assume killed any chance of him being dealt to SF.

As far as pitching is concerned.. We're looking at Josh Fogg, Cliff Lee, and Kevin Millwood. And Mo doesn't seem to think it's likely that Reyes will be moved.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Dec 5, 2007 2:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Er, just NTC, -clause

Oops, redundancy.

Also, I'd really hate to be in Mo's shoes right now. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Dec 5, 2007 2:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, Mo

He needs to become either more flexible, or or creative. I somehow doubt that their isn't anyone interested in Dunc or Reyes (their is documented proof of interest in Reyes). I would hate for him to limit the trade possibilities. Its no comp, but look at some of the lopsided trades already.....Lastings for Church and Schnieder anyone???

by sleepl355 on Dec 5, 2007 2:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To some degree

I kind of like that he's sticking to his guns and saying that Rolen is an All-Star third baseman and is going to be marketed as an All-Star third baseman by damn.

Unfortunately, we've got to do SOMETHING.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Dec 5, 2007 2:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe doing nothing is better than doing something

if "something" means selling low on a good player.

i think other teams are counting on the cards' succumbing to the "do something" mentality and taking advantage of them. so i agree w/ the top part of your post --- so far Mo has stuck to his guns and is not getting played for a fool.

by lboros on Dec 5, 2007 8:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

josh fogg

if we get him we corner the market on 5th starters.

Future Redbirds

by erik on Dec 5, 2007 8:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Funny thing

I'd gotten so sick of the CardsTalking of the sidebar that I set only the top 2 diaries to display when I left work today.

Saw this one just now, opened it up to show the last 10 diarrheas and didn't recognize any of 'em from when I left work.

by liam on Dec 5, 2007 3:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

...your definition

Define CardsTalking vs. Non-Cardstalk?

Funny = humourlessness?

Diarrhea....recognizeable?

Trade for Sean Rodriguez! (But please dont call him S-Rod!)

by cardschinmusic on Dec 5, 2007 3:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I hope Mo stands firm...

We shouldn't trade Rolen unless we get a suitable replacement and/or an exciting young talent in the exchange. Salary dumping is nice and all, but Rolen might just put up an .800 OPS this year on top of his all-star defense, and selling low has NEVER been a good strategy.

If the rumors of Scotty's extreme petulance are true, however, I'll be VERY disappointed and might have to retire my Rolen jersey even if he stays. There were whispers of that kind of attitude near the end at Philly, however...and I recall many of the Philly fans warning us years ago about it possibly rearing its ugly head again down the road. Looks like they may have been right.

Nonetheless, I'd rather Mo demand fair value and do nothing than cave and sell too low just to "do something."

LaRussa sure does bring a lot of baggage with his recent extension, doesn't he? Looks like getting Tony back for another 2 years might have an awfully high cost, including our all-star 3B, a cheap young starter, and possibly more...

Ah, well. Let's hope Mo can be creative and plug SOME of the holes...

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Dec 5, 2007 5:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

i am with you Mr Clean

this is where i agree 100 percent w/ Mo:

"When you look at all the balls in the air right now, I feel really torn in trying to address '08 to make some impact to make sure we're competitive within our division, where it might sacrifice something for '09 and '10," Mozeliak said.

that's from strauss's article today. this tells me mozeliak has his priorities in order; he's treating '08 as a lower priority than the years beyond. he's not going to sacrifice the future just to fill every hole for 2008, which is very unlikely to be a triumphant season no matter what he does.

by lboros on Dec 5, 2007 7:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh great could mo be the new

chuck lamar

"Rolen apparently gave his blessing to talks last month with the New York Yankees, who examined options for several days following third baseman Alex Rodriguez's decision to opt out of his deal with the franchise. Rodriguez later agreed to an extension after Mozeliak made an unsuccessful play for Yankees pitchers Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes."

C'mon Mo, be more realistic then that.

Future Redbirds

by erik on Dec 5, 2007 8:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't think he meant both

Hughes and Chamberlain, but rather tried to get either of them.

Why not aim high? If Mo doesn't want to trade Rolen but is only doing so at Rolen's bitchquest, then shoot for the moon and see if you land in the stars.

High school graduation cliches rule!

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Dec 5, 2007 8:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Angels not interested?

As per mlbtr, the angels aren't panicking for a 3B. however, it goes on to say that they ARE in the market and presumably interested in rolen. i personally love the idea of chone coming to st. louis and some diary some time ago was discussing that idea as a possibility b/c the angels are loading up for a run now (and don't tell them this, but figgins would really help there, after all he only hit around .330 last year). Figgins would bring great speed too but i don't know how possible this is.

im a spoiled fan

by willess on Dec 5, 2007 8:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs