June 27 Lukewarm Stove--Cards close to bringing in Hazmatt Clement

Meh

Well, I'm finding myself saying "as long as he's not expensive and as long as he's healthy, I'll gladly take him."

But the problem is that the likelihood of both of those wishes coming true is slim, so as of now, I'm not too thrilled.

But then again, Clement vs. Kippers -- I'll take Clement.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Dec 26, 2007 10:58 PM EST reply actions

Wow

Per MLB Trade Rumors -- Prior signed with Padres: "Prior gets $1MM guaranteed and can earn another $4.5MM in incentives."

Sure hope Clement will be at a price like that.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Dec 26, 2007 11:02 PM EST reply actions

I was initially

underwhelmed by the prospect of signing Clement. To me, he seemed like Kip Wells. Good K rate but bad BB rate; a guy w/ good stuff who never really put it all together.

After looking at the rates, there are a number of similarities to Wells w/ BB rate, K rate, and GB rate. The difference is that Clement has done all of them a little better than Wells. And his most recent success ('04 w/ the Cubs) is more recent than Wells'. He still walks too many but not as many as Wells and has had a higher K rate and GB rate than Wells. If he's healthy, he's worth a flyer.

by chuckb on Dec 26, 2007 11:45 PM EST reply actions

Well...

You figured they would take at least one dive into the ole scrap heap.

I could think of worse scrap to come back with. He could be a complete waste though, last time I read a report he was throwing in the mid 80's. He was always a thrower, so if he can't get his velocity back up he's cooked imo.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 26, 2007 11:46 PM EST reply actions

sigh

we better get used to guys like matt for the next couple years. the ccupboards are pretty bare & MO ain't no miracle worker.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Dec 26, 2007 11:52 PM EST reply actions

Prior

Man!!! 1-year $1m up to $3.5m in incentives I hope the Cards atleast sent him an offer because thats a bargain.....and only one year.....

by Calhoun on Dec 27, 2007 12:02 AM EST reply actions

...seems reasonble, but...

...it all depends on your point of view re: Prior.

Trade for Sean Rodriguez! (But please dont call him S-Rod!)

by cardschinmusic on Dec 27, 2007 4:20 AM EST up reply actions

No, it really doesn't

it's 1 million guaranteed -- the same amt. the Cards paid Aaron Miles last year. The $3.5 M in incentives only gets paid if he pitches well. It's a no-lose situation for the Pads. It would have been a great contract for the Cards to sign.

by chuckb on Dec 27, 2007 10:49 AM EST up reply actions

100% agree

that is a steal.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Dec 28, 2007 12:25 AM EST up reply actions

I dont think he will pitch....

The idea of Prior getting one million to possibly fall flat is just shades beneath the horrid signing of Izturis for 3+ million IMHO, who at least starts the season with a chance to be physically healthy. Bad enough he might block Hoffpauir at some point.

Im not really a "win with a bargain" guy when it comes to a few players wearing Cardinal red, Bonds and Prior are two of them. Id rather lose with a youngster than win a few extra games with Prior.

Let's see a homegrown kid get a shot this year with a healthy arm at less money.

Trade for Sean Rodriguez! (But please dont call him S-Rod!)

by cardschinmusic on Dec 28, 2007 5:05 AM EST up reply actions

Less money than a million?

good luck. If Prior doesn't pitch, you're only out a million. If he does, and pitches well, he's an incredible steal. There aren't many better bargains out there than the one the Pads just got.

by chuckb on Dec 28, 2007 11:44 AM EST up reply actions

Don't want Prior?

Why, just because he was a Cub? I don't think we're in good enough shape to be snobs about what team a player is coming from. 1 million guaranteed is nothing, how much did we pay Mulder to rehab last year?

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Dec 28, 2007 12:47 PM EST up reply actions

I'm

100% results orientated. I hate bonds and prior but would love to see them in cardinal red. Plus I don't give a flying fuck about DeWitts wallet so I have no concept of bang for buck just as long as over spending doesn't inhibit acquiring someone else.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Dec 28, 2007 3:36 PM EST up reply actions

Results?

"100% results orientated [sic]"? That's maybe the worst attitude I've ever heard from a Cardinals fan. If this team ever becomes 100% results "orientated", I'm finding a new team. Half of being a Cards fan is the sense of history, class and respect for the game. We all want to win, but if you have to give up what it means to be the Cardinals...

by barry whiteteeth on Dec 28, 2007 3:51 PM EST up reply actions

bulloney

actually, the award for worst attitude from a cardinals fan goes to the guy who's willing to go find a new team.

as someone else in this forum so wisely stated, signing troubled players seems like the new moneyball. i don't see where everyone gets off on throwing stones, anyway.

also, i may not love barry bonds, but i'm not sure how the mere consideration of the greatest hitter of all time translates into an abandonment of history, class and respect for the game.

by baw on Dec 28, 2007 11:06 PM EST up reply actions

And by the way

great success on the field and dare I say it, "results," are what actually comprise a worthwhile history. If the Cardinals didn't achieve those results, there would be no great Cardinal history or tradition.

Its like the Rays...they have no tradition because they havent had any success. Call me crazy, but I root for the results because without the winning, there is no history.

The hot stove is burning...

by cardzfan24 on Dec 29, 2007 12:26 AM EST up reply actions

Yes, but...

Teams like the Diamondbacks and the Marlins both have winning traditions, and no one mentions them when they talk abut the class of the National League. No doubt winning is important in the creation of a legacy and history, but it's also so many other things. The Cardinals have so many players that are the faces of the franchise-players like Medwick, Musial, Gibson, Brock, etc. It's being able to go to a ballpark and know it's quirks and intricacies. It's listening to the same voices on the radio calling games since you were a child. Histories of storied franchises are made up of the Romantic side of baseball just as much as they are based on winning.

by barry whiteteeth on Dec 29, 2007 11:40 AM EST up reply actions

ok

you mention two teams that are younger than my nephew trevor and claim "no one mentions them when they talk about the class of the National League." Well, 80 percent of the people who talk about the Cards as the "class of the National League" are Cards fans themselves. The rest of the world isn't that impressed by a team with a rich history and the self-proclaimed "best fans in baseball" if the team can't win 85 games and/or produce... get ready for this, whiteteeth... some RESULTS. See Cubs, Chicago.

this is a silly argument, but it just trips my trigger.

the cardinals have an astoundingly rich tradition, that's for sure. considering a bonds or a prior does nothing to jeopardize that. avoiding promising talent because of vague "character issues" in favor of signing truckloads of expensive veteran "character guys," on the other hand, poses a great risk.

and speaking of our romantic roster of heroes, how do you feel about vince coleman?

by baw on Dec 30, 2007 5:12 PM EST up reply actions

....no stones here...

I have my doubts that history will treat him as the greatest hitter of all time. But Im ok with you believing that if you want. Hes a west coast future DH....maybe?

We should have pulled in Bradley, at least the guys up front with a bag full of trouble, Id have been real ok with that for a one year deal.

Some guys just dont look good in red.

by cardschinmusic on Dec 29, 2007 6:27 AM EST up reply actions

...great response!!

Good results with using the word fuck somewhere in about 2/3rds of your posts, thats impressive LOL!

Im 100% homer and 100% anti adding a few wins signing documented track record a-holes like Prior and Bonds. Its got zero to do with snob, everything to do with being a class act UNLESS there aint no way to avoid it.

Let the kids play (and lose if thats the ONLY bottom line you see) and I'll still be fine with the results.

Some guys just dont look good in red.

by cardschinmusic on Dec 29, 2007 6:05 AM EST up reply actions

...sorry...

Not directed to you cardsfan24...sorry. Missed by a few post above.

I respect anybodys right to like a player irregardless of his history etc. I choose to draw the line with about 3 guys in the MLB playing for this team, ever. Dont want them standing in anybodys way either.

Im ready to move on with what this board was all about back in Oct, Nov etc...giving the farm a shot in ST. Make a trade or trades as the season progresses.

Some guys just dont look good in red.

by cardschinmusic on Dec 29, 2007 6:14 AM EST up reply actions

I also draw the line....

When it comes to certain players.....

Bonds, Giambi, Kent, D Wells I could go on and on........

by Calhoun on Dec 29, 2007 11:38 AM EST up reply actions

going home...

he was born in san diego and i believe he still lives there. theres also the advantage of san diego being a pitchers park. it is widely speculated he, like many other players, would take less to go to SD.

one year isnt exactly a good thing for the signing team. he isnt exactly healthy at the moment. at best they get a few good months out of him and then he becomes a free agent. most teams wanted an option on a second year but prior took the offer that would make a free agent sooner.

by dmb60614 on Dec 27, 2007 9:47 AM EST up reply actions

more prior tidbits at mlbtraderumors

the cardinals were cited as one of the most aggressive teams after prior. details about his injury and rehab are still hard to come by. i am sure the teams got the relevant medical records, but there isnt much out there publicly.

by dmb60614 on Dec 27, 2007 10:38 PM EST up reply actions

don't forget

he made it known that he didn't like the Cards at all when playing with the Cubs. Remember his and Matty Mo's feud?

I wouldn't be surprised if the rivalry had any influence in his decision to not sign with us.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Dec 27, 2007 11:34 PM EST up reply actions

Great...

Good...I hope thats the case.

Trade for Sean Rodriguez! (But please dont call him S-Rod!)

by cardschinmusic on Dec 28, 2007 5:08 AM EST up reply actions

Erik...

I don't see where the guy is reporting they have an offer out. Am I missing something, or where you just reading between the lines?

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 27, 2007 12:02 AM EST reply actions

poor phrasing

"Apparently the Cardinals are close to making former Padres and Marlins, Cubs and Red Sox hurler Matt Clement the new Kip Wells."

Fritz's boys need a house

by erik on Dec 27, 2007 1:03 AM EST up reply actions

What about

Jon Lieber, I ask? Seems like a god fit for the Cards.

My boys need nothing.

by Alxfritz on Dec 27, 2007 4:46 AM EST reply actions

By the way...

Is it late June already? Where did the winter/spring/summer go? I've got to stop sniffing glue.

My boys need nothing.

by Alxfritz on Dec 27, 2007 7:14 AM EST up reply actions

I've learned

not to ask in situations such as this...

"It's always about the money. Anyone who says it's not is lying."- Gene Simmons

by cardsrul on Dec 27, 2007 11:00 AM EST up reply actions

summer's only six days old

you still got most of that to enjoy.

Albert Pujols stole my 1998 Ford Taurus.

by stlcardinalsfang on Dec 27, 2007 12:09 PM EST up reply actions

Why not Lieber

He had a non-pitching injury last year (broken Foot?), He will most likely pitch allot of innings, have a ERA 'bout 4.00, and would take a one year deal.

by gonzostl on Dec 27, 2007 12:34 PM EST up reply actions

Clement

He is a guy I thought they would get from the beginning. If he is healthy, I like the signing. If he can't throw 90-94, I don't like it. He doesn't have the control to get away with throwing 85-88. He has to be able to throw hard enough to be able to miss his spots by a little and get away with it. (Same can be said for Bartolo Colon) Jennings is the one guy from the mash unit who might be able to get away with throwing a little softer than the others.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Dec 27, 2007 9:32 AM EST reply actions

gun readings

i've read he hit 87 MPH in an instructional league appearance. according to his agent he "threw all of his pitches and had good command and velocity". 87MPH isnt going to cut it, but i would think that his velocity will improve some over time. he's worth a flier for someone, i'm just not sure if its the cards. with carp and mulder ailing, and wainwright and looper reaching career highs for innings pitched, i think someone more reliable should be targeted.

by dmb60614 on Dec 27, 2007 3:25 PM EST up reply actions

well

Matt Clement has been a considerably better pitcher than Kip Wells over the years so the comparisons aren't all that valid.

Clement's record is a lot better, his ERA is better, WHIP is better, and he strikes out more guys. Now, I realize thats just the past but Clement has seen a lot more success than the Kipper.

I'm neutral on the idea of him becoming a Cardinal though.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Dec 27, 2007 11:01 AM EST reply actions

plus he has a more distinct

chin go-t

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punchinjudy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Dec 27, 2007 11:58 AM EST up reply actions

he and

Pineiro could be the "killer goatees"

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Dec 27, 2007 12:39 PM EST up reply actions

Johan Santana has the

best facial hair in MLB. Hands down. No one else is close......

by jillsinmo on Dec 27, 2007 12:58 PM EST up reply actions

Fernando Vina

set the bar very high. I always wondered how a man could have such a beautifull goat' like that. Now I know:

HGH.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Dec 27, 2007 1:11 PM EST up reply actions

Indeed

No one else comes close to the power of Vina's chin.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Dec 27, 2007 3:37 PM EST up reply actions

hmmm...

i take it you've never heard of the one they call Chuck Norris.

by edgesofsanity on Dec 28, 2007 2:53 AM EST up reply actions

I read

the previous comment about Vina's chin, and immediately thought of Chuck.

TSF

by TedSimmonsFan on Dec 28, 2007 12:08 PM EST up reply actions

Chuck Norris

is so overrated. Vina would own.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Dec 28, 2007 1:42 PM EST up reply actions

it's

been speculated that Chuck Norris uses banned Beard Enhancing Drugs.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Dec 28, 2007 3:38 PM EST up reply actions

HGH

Hair Growth Hormone?

Perhaps we should have seen Speizio's problems coming.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Dec 27, 2007 2:24 PM EST reply actions

I'd prefer that take a flier on Colon

than Clement, but it could be a case of Colon wanting more than 1 year.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Dec 27, 2007 3:45 PM EST reply actions

i think i read as USSM or somewhere

that the med reports on him are not good at all.

I hate... so much about the things that you choose to be.

by erik on Dec 27, 2007 4:18 PM EST up reply actions

Oh really?

Then, yeah, avoid at all costs. I thought he was healing well.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Dec 27, 2007 4:19 PM EST up reply actions

He only made 1 start in the DR Winter league

went 4 innings, gave up 2 ER, walked 4 and struck out 3.

Not so hot.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Dec 27, 2007 4:30 PM EST up reply actions

Colon has been trying to rehab a

torn rotator cuff-he decided against having shoulder surgery. He is trying to pitch with the same injury he's had for two years now. He's injured, he's 36, he's overweight. I see no upside here. We already have 2 injured pitchers. If Colon had anything left to offer, the Angels would have kept him. I'd really prefer they look at someone else.

by jillsinmo on Dec 27, 2007 8:38 PM EST up reply actions