Cards sign d'angelo jimenez --- Dec 19 hot stove diary

by lboros on Dec 19, 2007 1:05 AM EST Comment 79 comments

Hoping to discover quality among quantity, the Cardinals agreed to terms with former Cincinnati Reds starting shortstop D'Angelo Jimenez on a minor-league contract Tuesday.

Jimenez, who turns 30 on Friday, becomes another candidate in the Cardinals' search for a leadoff hitter and depth to support the projected middle infield combination of shortstop Cesar Izturis and second baseman Adam Kennedy.

can he really only be 30? seems like he has been around forever . . . . you can clearly see the rise of the statheads in this signing. jimenez has always had tremendous on-base ability and hence is a sabermetric darling; scouts, however, have always questioned his attitude, his durability, and his day-to-day consistency. he is not a walt-jocketty type of depth player, which is to say he's not wilson delgado or timo perez . . . .

good pickup. i liked this guy a couple years ago as a bargain-bin replacement for grudzielanek at 2b; don't know about his glove at ss, but he's a better hitter than izturis. what are the odds that he, ryan, and kennedy break camp as the team's three opening day middle infielders? . . . . ok, i'm getting carried away. as long as he doesn't take too much playing time away from hoffpauir or jose martinez at triple A, he's a useful guy to have around.

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This quote is going to get Mo in trouble...

"Looking back at '04 and some of the projections we have on him, we believe he still has some upside," Mozeliak said.

by Merry CRasmus on Dec 19, 2007 12:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Eh

Not really. I don't think there's anything wrong with throwing a minor league contract at a guy who you think has good talent, even if you're basing that off a single good year (in his mid/ate 20s) and some projections. Hell, I'm just glad they have projections. Projections are good.

by mojowo11 on Dec 19, 2007 1:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm in Mo's corner

I'm completely ambivalent to the move at this point. As you said, minor league contract=no risk.

I'm in Mo's corner. He's starting in a horrible spot where the best course is probably to do nothing but wait it out. I just cringed at the "he had a good 04" line. Only because holding on to 04' helped get us in this spot.

by Merry CRasmus on Dec 19, 2007 1:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh my

hardcore legend's throwaway joke just keeps seeming more prescient... We're basing our signings off of what people did in 2004.

(Some incredible minor league numbers though...)

Christmas lights are an extremely efficient method for converting Christmas Spirit into heat. -anon

by SleepyCA on Dec 19, 2007 2:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm telling you

Mark Prior will be signed.
Bartolo Colon will not.
Kris Benson is iffy.

It's 2004 all over again...but not in a good way.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Dec 19, 2007 2:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Team motto

The 2008 St. Louis Cardinals: The 2004 Everyone Else

by mojowo11 on Dec 19, 2007 4:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We're a lock

To win the bidding war for Matt Clement.

Surprisingly, no. I'm free, I'm unfettered.

by liam on Dec 19, 2007 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes

they are listening to me.

Fritz's boys need a house

by erik on Dec 19, 2007 1:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

o I can't wait until Fritz sees that signature

heh heh

by azruavatar on Dec 19, 2007 1:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm out there, AZ,

and I'm loving every minute of it!

I will be in briefs.

by Alxfritz on Dec 19, 2007 3:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like this guy

I know that his defensive numbers are roughly equal to that of a post...but man the guy should be able to hit.

And dude broke his neck and is still going...so next time a guy bitches about a bad hammy he can ask "Is it like breaking your neck? Because that sucks."

by Harknights on Dec 19, 2007 1:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Indeed

I see him as a potentially useful bench guy. I wouldn't want him at short...I feel like he may actually be worse than Eckstein, who actually caught the ball and threw it to first when he could get to it. Well, sort of.

by mojowo11 on Dec 19, 2007 1:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So was it unrealistic

to expect Hoffpauir would get a chance with the big club? Because it seems to me that signing D-Jim (sorry) precludes Hoffpauir's presence in St. Louis.

by 26thMan on Dec 19, 2007 1:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Competition

is good regardless, in my opinion. Make Hoff prove he is the better option.

by Toddius396 on Dec 19, 2007 2:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Like Ozzie and Royce?

Cause that sure wasn't an open competition.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Dec 19, 2007 2:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that's what i'm worried about

Hoff may never get a chance to prove what he can do.

Christmas lights are an extremely efficient method for converting Christmas Spirit into heat. -anon

by SleepyCA on Dec 19, 2007 4:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hoff deserves a long look...

I hear you...spring training is not the litmus test for new guys/young guys/recently signed guys TLR always makes it out to be. No doubt competition is good, but some larger perspective is necessary to make decisions that have a major impact on the teams (and a young players) future, other than who just outplayed who in the early spring.

Trade for Sean Rodriguez! (But please dont call him S-Rod!)

by cardschinmusic on Dec 19, 2007 7:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i am not too worried

i can see tony not wanting to give hoff a lot of at bats in ST. it really wouldnt be the end of the world if he started the year back at AAA. if they end up going with kennedy at 2b then hoff is going to do a lot of sitting, which is bad. i think its better he gets more at bats in AAA than riding the pine in the show. the real question, imo, is whether Mo would call him up if kennedy continues to look bad in 2008. given that he has passed on re-signing taguchi and miles i dont think either izturis or jiminez will stand in the way should hoff look up to the task.

by dmb60614 on Dec 19, 2007 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if

Hoff is good enough to be a major league player--he will be a major league player. I dont think there is a conspiracy theory to keep young guys down on the farm.

If you can play, you can play--and it will be borne out that way.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Dec 19, 2007 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

It's not a "conspiracy", per se, but incompetent player evaluation that leads to wasting valuable playing opportunities on the wrong players is just as bad. Last year in spring training at least 4 guys outhit preston wilson, yet he left florida with the club and helped the team a ton by hitting like my grandma. Ryan Ludwick was hitting like albert pujols in memphis (1.022 OPS) and the only reason they brought him up was that Wilson's leg fell apart.

Adam Kennedy hit like my grandma all year long and Hoff never even got a September call-up AB despite putting up A+ OBP at every level he's played at. We brought in out-machine Miguel Cairo from outside the system instead when AK hit the DL. Hoff and Edgar v Gonzales both deserved a shot over Cairo, imho, but instead of taking a shot at catching lightning in a bottle we chose "proven" sub-mediocrity.

We'll never know how different Reyes' development would have been different if AW had started 2006 in the rotation instead of Ponson and Reyes was put in AW's bullpen job for that full year instead of being bounced up and down. Encarnacion over J-rod. Keisler over {any young pitcher}. Etc, etc.

Christmas lights are an extremely efficient method for converting Christmas Spirit into heat. -anon

by SleepyCA on Dec 19, 2007 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So...

I take it you are gyrating in happiness over the Edmonds trade.

by flynn on Dec 19, 2007 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not a good comparison

Granted, I was pretty upset when WJ gave Edmonds the extension last year. However, Jimmy's upside is "best CF in the game", and it's tough to argue against keeping "the best CF in the game" around, unlikely as it is that he'll come back healthy.

Bringing in Cairo was not bringing in "the best" middle infielder in baseball. Promoting Keisler or playing Wilson or Branyan were not decisions made with the future of the franchise in mind; they were "let's win a game in June and damn the torpedoes" types of decisions. With Cairo, branyan, etc, WJ blocked our own players for no reason and that was just dumb.

Anyway a good comparison would be bringing in Cameron or Patterson to play CF this year instead of putting Ankiel there to start the year. I think you can understand why I'd be upset about that.

Christmas lights are an extremely efficient method for converting Christmas Spirit into heat. -anon

by SleepyCA on Dec 19, 2007 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not so sleepy

the Cairo thing still sticks in my crawl.
I don't know how to retrieve what the standings were on the day Cairo was signed, or even what date that was, but I DO know that Cairo had 30 of his 67 at-bats in the last ten games of the season, and we were definitely out of the picture by then.

Overall in his short time, Cairo had 14 atarts, including nine at 3rd base and four at 2nd base. What a waste.

I thoroughly applaud the case sleepy is making.

by the Tewk on Dec 19, 2007 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't Ryan injured during those games?

Which is why Cairo got the starts? 'Cause there's nothing that will really set a young player back than playing him injured...

Also, I expect Hoff to start in Memphis this year and come up later, like Ryan did last season. Hoffpauir played AAA ball for only half the season last year, starting and playing 64 games in Springfield before moving up, and he's stuggled in winter ball (.236, or 13 hits in 55 ABs). He's not the kind of prospect who's going to move up to the majors that quickly--rushing him is bad player development as well. Not to mention that the Cardinals need to give Adam Kennedy the opportunity to play in order to unload him--with his slow start and his season-ending injury, Kennedy is completely untradeable now.

by Forsch31 on Dec 19, 2007 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the point being....

No one here is contesting any of that,the point being made by sleepy et.al. is not even remotely connected to any "conspiracy" or "talent or lack thereof"...its getting a shot IF you deserve one, and no matter how much you try to say "it all works out", it does'nt!

Trade for Sean Rodriguez! (But please dont call him S-Rod!)

by cardschinmusic on Dec 20, 2007 4:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

wow

How long will fans hold on to THIS one?

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Dec 19, 2007 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well....

No ones holding onto anything I know of except a misunderstanding of the original point being made.

Trade for Sean Rodriguez! (But please dont call him S-Rod!)

by cardschinmusic on Dec 20, 2007 4:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I liked Jimenez

and wanted him over Izturis. This is good but I am concerned about Hoffpauir not getting a chance now. I think it's unlikely b/c I think we are witnessing a commitment to youth. Hopefully, if Hoffpauir performs, he's gonna get a chance.

by chuckb on Dec 19, 2007 8:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry

but if we traded Edmonds to save $6 mil, signings like this and Izturis are a total waste of money. We could be saving the money, employing league minimum players for the same results, and instead try out guys like Colon for one-year deals.

Buying a bunch of little useless players DOES add up after awhile, and this is exactly a case of that.

Oh wait, I didn't read that it was a minor league contract (kinda skimmed over that). See if that's true, I would've been much more content with a signing like this than Izturis. Minor league signings for these type of players is the only way to go.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Dec 19, 2007 1:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why?

This move makes little sense to me. First off, this seems to make it that much tougher for Ryan or Hoff to get an opportunity at some playing time. Additionally, didn't the club rush to sign Izturis because we were worried we wouldn't be able to find a shortstop? Now instead of trying to figure out whether Ryan is capable of contributing to the major league club as an every day shortstop, he is blocked by two mediocre-at-best aging/declining players each with a major question mark (Jimenez = Glove, Izturis = Bat).

I wouldn't mind this move as much if Izturis had not already been signed, but you don't need two of the same player. Should Jimenez be given a spot on the roster, it would appear to eliminate any chance of a Ryan/Izturis platoon at short, at a time when young players like Ryan need to be evaluated to see what exactly they can bring to the table.

Personally, I like Ryan and think he could be at least be an average everyday shortstop at this level. Unfortunatly, the Cardinals do not seem willing to give him the chance.

by stl522 on Dec 19, 2007 2:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

...default position for Ryan?

Maybe Ryan will put all together knowing theres some golves and bats in the way now, there were none before these signings.

No need to inherit a position by default when you have as much to learn as Ryan. One thing for sure, Miles is not in his way.

Kennedy and Ryan need to report this year loaded and ready to fire, same with Izturis and Jimenez, Hoffpauir etc. Jobs are to be had!

Trade for Sean Rodriguez! (But please dont call him S-Rod!)

by cardschinmusic on Dec 19, 2007 7:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what if

deep down, this represents a less than optimistic view about Kennedy... indeed maybe even they are anticipating trading or releasing HIM. (( as I am, personally, convinced that had their mind made up about David E }}

Not sure it warrants a reason for the Jimenez invitation, but if they are down on Kennedy, I would certainly understand THAT.

By the way, I was shocked and offended when a previous poster blatantly insulted HIS OWN grandmother... implying that she was roughly the same kind of hitter as Adam Kennedy.

by the Tewk on Dec 19, 2007 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you guys realize?

Jimenez had an OPS+ over 100 in a limited role last year (70 games, 100 ABs). Can he field? Seems like a good bench guy to me, though.

Then again, Aaron Miles was a good bench guy...except then he wasn't a bench guy anymore.

In any case, I will be totally unsurprised if Jimenez benefits from LaRussa's situational prowess and plays better than Izturis this year, at least with the bat.

by mojowo11 on Dec 19, 2007 3:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

i'd like to see jimenez lead off and play 2B

this is a good low-risk move with a potentially high reward if d'angelo can play average defense at second and get on base at the top of the order.

the cards need somebody to lead off and jimenez has a .351 career OBP. that's exactly the same as david eckstein. and it's better than any of the other guys we might have considered: kennedy (.329), ryan (.347), izturis (.295) or miles (.323).

on the downside, jimenez reminds me of junior spivey. still, i like the move.

by mattlo on Dec 19, 2007 4:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Any chance..

that this was the Cards thought as well? Maybe Kennedy being on the roster is not a given.

by vances law on Dec 19, 2007 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

SS of the future???

It seems like Hoffpauir is the immediate SS of our future. Baseball America isn't too high on him though...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/265257.html

Is Kozma really our SS of the future like BA makes it sound?

by Big Head on Dec 19, 2007 6:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hmmmm...

I dont know that Hoff has ever been considered the SS of the future, second base or infield utility maybe, but not shortstop.

Kozma has a long way to go being just 8 months (one summer) removed from high school, but he's going to get a lot of opportunities down the road being Luhnows #1 pick, for sure.

Trade for Sean Rodriguez! (But please dont call him S-Rod!)

by cardschinmusic on Dec 19, 2007 7:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hoffpauir's a 2b

who has played some SS and 3B to prepare him in case he has to. But he's a 2B.

by chuckb on Dec 19, 2007 8:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It will...

probably be between Hoff and Brendan Ryan for the 2b-SS jobs in '09 or '10. That is, unless Moz has something up the sleeve. I guess about that time we'll start to have an idea on Kozma. Funny that BA also wasn't too sure on Kozma as a 1st round draft pick, but now they seem to like him after a short season.

Let's just hope (gulp) that Cesar Izturis is able to show something this year to get a contract for '09.

by Big Head on Dec 19, 2007 7:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Bad idea..

Over at FR I expressed my concern of this signing, I just don't like it one bit. It will either be a waste, which isn't a bad thing, or he will put a minor leaguer out of a job at AAA, or worse force Ryan to AAA. The only good would be fore Izturis to be released after camp, but I don't see that happening.

by StLHugo on Dec 19, 2007 7:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I respectfully disagree...

Quoting from the Strauss article:

His split contract also allows him to demand free agency if not with the Cardinals on a certain date, believed to be July 1.

He either makes the ballclub or he's gone in three months. Low financial cost, low opportunity cost.

Count me among those who want to see Hauffpair get regular ABs SOMEWHERE, whether it's at Memphis or in The Show.

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Dec 19, 2007 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

jimenez makes sense

in that unlike hoffpauir, he can play SS and 2B. I'm not sure how well. most scouts see hoff as a utility man, not a starter. i think we all like hoff because of the OBP, but there's a shot he turns into a jimenez type player himself. i don't see the harm in having them all around.

and i'm not too sure martinez is lock for AAA.

Fritz's boys need a house

by erik on Dec 19, 2007 10:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

martinez should be at AAA

at some point this year --- maybe not right out of spring training, but i could see him getting a midseason promotion a la hoffpauir.

by lboros on Dec 19, 2007 10:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

midseason maybe

he's not exactly tearing up winter ball, but he's not doing bad either. he's young, i just think he could use a little more seasoning. i think some forget how much he struggled in A+ for much of the first half.

Fritz's boys need a house

by erik on Dec 19, 2007 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tyler Greene?

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 19, 2007 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jimenez is a bone

that Moz is throwing to TLR. Let's face it: Tony is your manager, he's here for 2 years, you can't or won't give him everything he wants, but you've gotta give him SOMETHING he wants. And he wants veteran guys in the middle infield. So you toss him a bone now and then, and if it costs $600K, BFD. I don't like it either, but it's a fact of life -- similar to situations all of us deal with sooner or later, of having to coexist with someone and making compromises to keep the relationship working smoothly enough.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 19, 2007 10:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Not sure I agree

if his "attitude, durability, and day-to-day consistency" have been questioned, and they have, those are not usually the qualities that LaRussa looks for. This doesn't seem to me to be a concession to Tony at all. I doubt that he's been clamoring for a guy who gets on base a lot but whose attitude and consistency have been questioned. To me, this move was made in spite of Tony, not b/c of him.

by chuckb on Dec 19, 2007 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jimenez

If anyone can help this guy with the areas of his game that are lacking, it is Jose Oquendo. What Duncan is to pitchers, Oquendo is to middle infielders. He has improved the defense of Grudz, Womack, Miles, Hart and even Eckstein (until last year) As projects go, this one has some real upside.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Dec 20, 2007 9:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no

Tony wants the best players on the field--regardless of age. I still laugh everytime I read the Tony hates young players garb that gets spewed.

Tony wants to win games. He wants the best players to do that. If Hoffpair and Ryan, etc. prove to be better than the "older" players, they will play.

Minor leaguers and "young" players aren't the same as prospects/good players.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Dec 19, 2007 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you.

I was responding to the post you were.

by ICbirdfan on Dec 19, 2007 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"prove"

That's the thing. how will they ever "prove" anything if they don't get a chance to play?

It's not that I think TLR wants to "keep the young guys down on the farm"; I think that he's just not that good at understanding opportunity cost and makes bad decisions in favor of veterans. A guy who may be perfectly capable of outperforming kennedy is sitting in memphis because he's "unproven" and he'll stay unproven until gives him a shot, and if no one ever gives him a shot then he'll be unproven forever.

Christmas lights are an extremely efficient method for converting Christmas Spirit into heat. -anon

by SleepyCA on Dec 19, 2007 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

they

do get a chance to play...in Memphis. Hoffpair wasnt much of a player/prospect until last year. It wasnt like he was a cant miss guy.

I think Tony understand opportunity cost. I also think nitpicking using examples of Miguel Cairo--is just that, nitpicking.

The 25th roster spot is the 25th roster spot. If a younger guy can make a difference--he has been given the chance. I guess thats my point.

History shows Tony will play young players if they are worthy of getting playing time.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Dec 19, 2007 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't agree

I don't agree with you. I see the MI situation kind of like the pitching situation. Dept may be a good thing as no one is a surefire great player. All of them may have issues during the season.

Ryan
Izturis
Kenneday
Hoffpauir
Jimenez
Barden

No one is great on that list, but each guy does something well or projects well. I don't see the move a throwing a bone to Tony one bit, I see it as insurance.

FYI

If anyone blocks Hoffpauir it will be Kennedy playing well, or playing like shit and not being benched. Hoffpauir will not play SS and Erik the minor league expect on the board makes it sound as if Hoff should not play SS.

by ICbirdfan on Dec 19, 2007 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

ICbirdfan, excellent point. Also, Ryan and Barden can also be used to back up Rolen a 3B. Basically, we have 6 guys competing for 4 slots (2b, SS, 2 UT). With the exception on AK, no one has proven themselves to be a starter, but has proven they can be an effective UT. By giving TLR so many options, he can do what he does best which is put guys in a place where they can succeed.

by maurerdj on Dec 19, 2007 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My only memory of Jimenez

is the 2006 ALCS when he had to fill in for Mark Ellis who broke his hand in the ALDS.

Does anyone else remember how awful he was? He could hardly maintain second base. A bullpen pitcher would not have done much worse. He made errors in the first two games and he could have racked up a couple more. He looked like Belliard plus 30 pounds. He repeatedly failed to get to foul balls, and with Swisher at first, everything hit to the right side got through.

Who needs Antonetti? Give Luhniak a chance!

by guayzimi on Dec 19, 2007 11:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

My memory of him

was as a White Soc about 5 years ago. He was atrocious.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Dec 19, 2007 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

eckstein

[note: This is my first post here, so sorry if it's in the wrong location]

Speaking of middle infielders, I was watching the St. Louis local news last night and they had an interview with David Eckstein. They only posted about twenty seconds of it [article on the interview can be found here, but in the interview David Eckstein said this:

"That's the one thing I want to clarify, especially to the St. Louis fans," Eckstein said. "First off, my agent and I never set any demands or any parameters to the St. Louis Cardinals. We were willing to listen to any offer they had. We repeatedly told them my desires to stay a St. Louis Cardinal. And the one thing that I promise you, the Cardinals never once gave me or my agent the opportunity to accept or reject an offer to remain a St. Louis Cardinal.

"They never gave me the opportunity to remain a Cardinal. I never once had any type of opportunity after even encouraging them at one point, 'Please just put something on the table,' and they never once did," said Eckstein.

Of course Mozeliak denies that this was the case, and it seems like that this is almost a "he said, she said" type of deal. But if what Eckstein says is true - and he seems like a pretty honest guy - why would the Cardinals have done this? Wouldn't it be better to sign him to a 1-year deal (which he took with Toronto) then to come up with this "middle infield by committee" type of approach?

by kblakestl on Dec 19, 2007 1:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

This is a very appropriate place for

your thoughts.

My guess is the Cards wanted to get younger and better defensively and Eckstein didn't offer that. My guess is that, rather than "he said, she said", it's probably somewhere in between w/ the Cards trying to spin it one way and the agent trying to spin it the other.

I often wonder, when you read comments like these after the fact, if Eckstein's truly happy to be a Blue Jay, why is he bitching about the way he was treated by the Cards? It sure makes the player (not just Eck; this happens all the time) seem disappointed to be w/ the team w/ which he just signed. Wouldn't it be best just to keep his disappointment to himself?

by chuckb on Dec 19, 2007 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agent

My wife and I agree this might be a telephone game type problem. What the Cards thought they told his agent and what his agent told him may differ, and in that game you know the people in the middle don't always understand that they messed up the message.

by StLHugo on Dec 19, 2007 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agents

Or, the agents think they know exactly what they're doing and try to keep some information from getting to the client. Wouldn't be surprised if Eckstein didn't get the full story from his agent deliberately.

by awpierce on Dec 19, 2007 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mo on the Radio

Hey that rhymes!

Mo yesterday did a radio interview and the transcript was posted today. It basically says exactly what we just said. During spring training the Cards offered a 3 yr contract, it was turned down at the time. Then after the season Mo called the agent a couple times to get feelers on a one or two year deal, never got a call back.
http://www.insidestl.com/mckernan/index.php?storyid=435

by StLHugo on Dec 19, 2007 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

agents and lawyers

can't be trusted.

My apologies to lawyers for making that statement.

Eck's agent gambled hoping for more money, but it didn't pay off, so he tells Eck that "they never called or nothin" hoping to keep his client. It happens all the time. Ask Placido, he'll tell you.

by hit and run on Dec 19, 2007 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I believe Eckstein

Why do you think the Cards didn't offer arbitration? Also, I have heard Moz say on many occasions that a priority this offseason was to get better defensively at shortstop. (And you don't do that by putting the same guy there.) The Cards did not want him back. I wish Eckstein well, but I think his going to Toronto is what is best for him, the Cards, and the Jays.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Dec 20, 2007 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

strauss in his chat

said clement had a greater chance of becoming cardinal then prior. if not clement, then the dream weaver could be back.

on the higher end of things, interest in lohse remains. blech.

Fritz's boys need a house

by erik on Dec 19, 2007 5:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Joe Strauss

I'm starting to wonder about his sources. He's seemed to jump the gun on a few moves recently.

Signing Matt Clement would gibe with the Hardcore Turn-Back-the-Clock to 2004 meme.

Surprisingly, no. I'm free, I'm unfettered.

by liam on Dec 19, 2007 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

On a positive note

If you throw enough shit at the wall, some of it's bound to stick.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Dec 19, 2007 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure

If that metaphor for the 2008 squad is more inspiring than the Zombie horde of 2007.

Surprisingly, no. I'm free, I'm unfettered.

by liam on Dec 19, 2007 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Silva...

Signs w/ Mariners 4yr 44M.

An averagish pitcher will cost you 10-12M these days.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Dec 19, 2007 8:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Now if only the Phillies will sign Lohse

we'll have dodged the worst bullets of the offseason.

Actually, I hope he gets signed by the Astros so we see our OPS jump a few points this year.

by siddfynch on Dec 19, 2007 9:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

USSMariner

had a fantastic write-up (as usual) on Silva:

http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/18/carlos-silva/

by azruavatar on Dec 19, 2007 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Great Piece, would like to read that style review

of the Cards SP's.

Love the summation: "Is He A Good Fit For The Mariners? Well, they've convinced themselves that they have to spend money on starting pitchers, and he's a starting pitcher who wanted money, so maybe the answer is yes. But, if you dig deeper, I'd argue that the answer is a resounding no."

by Birds on the Bat on Dec 19, 2007 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess

What would you rather have?

Pinero at $13M for 2 years

Silva at $44M for 4 years

I have to say.

Well played Mo.

by Harknights on Dec 19, 2007 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

At the time

of the Pineiro signing I said it was a good deal. This is Silva signing proves it.

by nybirdfan on Dec 19, 2007 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How does the Silva signing

justify the Pineiro signing? What's the connection there because I don't see it.

by azruavatar on Dec 19, 2007 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think

I think what they ment was that both Pineiro and Silva are pretty much league-average pitchers and that they would rather pay Pineiro $13m for two years then give Silva 4 years $44m....

by Calhoun on Dec 20, 2007 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

by nybirdfan on Dec 20, 2007 8:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Signing Silva to an ill-advised deal

justifies a contract who hasn't thrown as many innings on a regular basis and was relegated to the bullpen last year? This seems like the "two wrongs don't make a right" cliche and it also depends on Pineiro being a league average pitcher (which he hasn't been for 3 years).

by azruavatar on Dec 20, 2007 9:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs