Mitchell Day Chatter
Update [2007-12-13 13:18:44 by lboros]: here's the report.
whichever players are named, the two names that should be the most discussed are those of don fehr and bud selig. the union and the commissioner’s office. both organizations tacitly encouraged steroid use in the name of the dollar. steroids led to big home run totals, which led to big money --- for the union members, in the form of gaudy salaries; and for the owners, in the form of tickets and tv contracts and licensed merchandise and everything else. mlb and the union didn’t actively encourage steroid use, but both organizations actively prevented deterrence until congress got involved in 2005. they were the enablers --- without their acquiescence, most of the individual players listed here would probably have stayed clean.
as for the players: i’m not asking any of them to apologize. but i am asking them to be honest. if a guy juiced, then let’s out with it. "there was a widespread steroid culture in the game, and i was one of the many who participated in it." is that so hard to say? the steroid cheats who’ve been honest about their use --- ryan franklin, for example --- aren’t dogged by it; they tell the truth, submit to the corresponding penalty (if any), and move on with their careers, without condemnation. it’s the liars who draw all the grief, and deservedly so.
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Comments
Hasn't it already been deteremined
by stl tyler on Dec 13, 2007 12:41 PM EST 0 recs
I can't get to deadspin from work
Wonder if he'll pretend to apologize this time too?
by SleepyCA on
Dec 13, 2007 12:57 PM EST
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His list
by cardsrul on
Dec 13, 2007 1:29 PM EST
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when he put it up
So I think Deadspin handled it pretty well, given that some of the actual news sites that ran the first list didn't give those caveats.
by nybirdgirl on
Dec 13, 2007 3:35 PM EST
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Pujols
by briferg07 on
Dec 13, 2007 12:58 PM EST
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pdf search report on mlb.com
by vince eating tarp on
Dec 13, 2007 2:16 PM EST
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Don't forget Cardinals legend Larry Bigbie!
by effin fisk on
Dec 13, 2007 2:21 PM EST
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Former Cardinal....
Kent Mercker
Jason Christianson
Vina
Ankiel
David Bell
Bigbie
Franklin
Dave McKay is also mentioned quite a few times as well for his statement that 30% of players are on steroids.
by Brock20 on
Dec 13, 2007 2:52 PM EST
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Wow...
by Brock20 on Dec 13, 2007 12:44 PM EST 0 recs
not really
"Also, I've got a beef with this kind of retroactive morality that seems to be infesting fandom at this point."
You'd have to be retarded or a homer to not think most of those people weren't going to be on the list.
lol, no told you so's needed...more like a sarcastic "NO SHIT?!"
by rocKStark5 on
Dec 13, 2007 12:47 PM EST
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If Pujols is on the list
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 13, 2007 1:06 PM EST 0 recs
DAmon
by sdrone on Dec 13, 2007 1:12 PM EST 0 recs
does it mean anything
by bsbalbrian6 on Dec 13, 2007 1:13 PM EST 0 recs
Larussa and roids.....
The names on the list should be Bud and Selig. End of story. No need to point fingers at the players. They are competitors and will do whatever it takes to get the advantage. I mean, their are literally millions of dollars riding on it.....
by TommyBruno on
Dec 13, 2007 1:24 PM EST
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i feel like when i was in trouble
by erik on Dec 13, 2007 1:15 PM EST 0 recs
Apparently
Perhaps they are waiting for the Noon hour on the west coast.
by Hardcore Legend on
Dec 13, 2007 1:18 PM EST
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1PM CST
by StLHugo on
Dec 13, 2007 1:21 PM EST
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what does it mean...
by tbell61 on Dec 13, 2007 1:18 PM EST 0 recs
List
Note the misspellings (Schoenwiis), use of proper names (Maurice Vaughn) and nicknames (Pudge Rodriguez).
by sjoshi on Dec 13, 2007 1:19 PM EST 0 recs
I'm not buying it in full,
by Alxfritz on
Dec 13, 2007 1:20 PM EST
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Why has this speculative list been bumped
Berne's Pressbox is acting much more resonsibly. They have an "Official Mitchell Report" thread that bans all early publishing of unofficial lists. Now VEB will perhaps have an inaccurate list heading it's main thread all day.
by nycardfan on Dec 13, 2007 1:21 PM EST 0 recs
Agreed
by StLHugo on
Dec 13, 2007 1:23 PM EST
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i'll update the list when it comes out
by lboros on
Dec 13, 2007 1:55 PM EST
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can't
by eglasier on
Dec 13, 2007 2:11 PM EST
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MLB has said
by DCGreg on Dec 13, 2007 1:22 PM EST 0 recs
SI.com
Miguel Tejada
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Chuck Knoblauch
Brian Roberts
David Justice
Jason Grimsley
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 13, 2007 1:22 PM EST 0 recs
Was just about to post that
by Alxfritz on
Dec 13, 2007 1:24 PM EST
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This list is bullshit
by fourstick on Dec 13, 2007 1:25 PM EST 0 recs
Yes
by StLHugo on
Dec 13, 2007 1:29 PM EST
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I think for VEB to maintain integrity
Can you just say the official list will be out soon and will be published as soon as we have the real one?
by nycardfan on
Dec 13, 2007 1:36 PM EST
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Well you're no fun
* Minus the hundred or so other players who used and weren't named in the report.
by Alxfritz on
Dec 13, 2007 1:39 PM EST
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I'll downplay my "fun" if it protects
I thought VEB was interested in evidence and standards. Fun should be the least of our concerns today.
by nycardfan on
Dec 13, 2007 1:45 PM EST
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agreed
by DCGreg on
Dec 13, 2007 1:39 PM EST
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"For VEB to maintain integrity?"
- This is a blog. It ain't SI.
- You gonna want all the links/references to mlbtraderumors.com removed next?
by sdrone on
Dec 13, 2007 1:41 PM EST
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It's
As for the comparison with mlbtraderumors, I would have thought it too obvious to merit mention that a rumor of a free agent signing and a rumor of steroid use are two very different things. And mlbtraderumors at least makes clear, for the most part, that it's peddling speculation. This post didn't.
by DCGreg on
Dec 13, 2007 1:46 PM EST
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mlbtraderumors.com has been more responsible
by nycardfan on
Dec 13, 2007 1:48 PM EST
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Let's not go all crazy
by cardzfan24 on
Dec 13, 2007 1:51 PM EST
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I'm not outraged or crazy
by nycardfan on
Dec 13, 2007 1:54 PM EST
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Totally agree nycardfan
And while VEB does have high standards, no one has said its perfect. Five minutes.....
by cardzfan24 on
Dec 13, 2007 1:58 PM EST
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The speculation
by joeyart on Dec 13, 2007 1:54 PM EST 0 recs
Speculation
by Timbo02 on Dec 13, 2007 1:54 PM EST 0 recs
Why do I
by cardsrul on Dec 13, 2007 1:56 PM EST 0 recs
On MLB TV
by bgodar on Dec 13, 2007 1:57 PM EST 0 recs
Full report
by Alxfritz on Dec 13, 2007 2:02 PM EST 0 recs
No Pujols reference
by sdrone on
Dec 13, 2007 2:08 PM EST
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Yup, having Adobe Pro is a blessing
by Hardcore Legend on
Dec 13, 2007 2:09 PM EST
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TLR is included talking about
by StLHugo on
Dec 13, 2007 2:13 PM EST
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There's much about La Russa
by TICY on
Dec 13, 2007 2:13 PM EST
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CODY EFFING MCKAY!!!!
That is the only name that would have shicked me, and there he is!
by Alxfritz on
Dec 13, 2007 2:09 PM EST
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I knew that
by vince eating tarp on
Dec 13, 2007 2:47 PM EST
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The checks at the end of the report
by TICY on Dec 13, 2007 2:10 PM EST 0 recs
Gary Bennett Jr.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 13, 2007 2:13 PM EST 0 recs
Cardinals
In a way, the number of journeymen, short-time big leaguers, etc. in this list makes sense. They certainly have the most to gain from any incremental advantage conferred by PEDs.
by holden on Dec 13, 2007 2:13 PM EST 0 recs
yeah!
by erik on
Dec 13, 2007 2:16 PM EST
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Vina's
by Alxfritz on
Dec 13, 2007 2:18 PM EST
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He was like a perfectly painted
by Hardcore Legend on
Dec 13, 2007 2:24 PM EST
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ok, that was probably wrong
by erik on
Dec 13, 2007 2:23 PM EST
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I am too
I'm not saying Pujols used steroids. The league has been testing most of the time he's been there. When I originally saw his name (in the deadspin link) I was surprised b/c baseball's been testing, basically, since he's been in the league.
I'm just saying that we can't say that a person didn't do steroids if his name isn't on the list.
by houstoncardinal on
Dec 13, 2007 3:10 PM EST
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At least Bell got
by MdRedbirdFreak on
Dec 13, 2007 2:21 PM EST
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Re: Ankiel
by DanUpBaby on
Dec 13, 2007 2:22 PM EST
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Bigbie..
Radomski to order human growth hormone to prepare for spring training. Radomski by then was
cooperating with the federal authorities, who monitored the call. Bigbie was then approached by
federal law enforcement authorities and began his cooperation with them.
by StLHugo on Dec 13, 2007 2:13 PM EST 0 recs
Bigbie says he had a source
by Hardcore Legend on
Dec 13, 2007 2:20 PM EST
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Bennett I am guessing
Radomski said that Denny Neagle referred Bennett to him. Neagle and Bennett
were teammates in 2001 and 2002 with the Colorado Rockies. Radomski recalled one
transaction with Bennett in July 2003 for two kits of human growth hormone. Radomski
produced one check from Bennett payable to Kirk Radomski in the amount of $3,200 dated
July 13, 2003.
It seems he knew how to get it fairly well.
by StLHugo on
Dec 13, 2007 2:23 PM EST
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Seriously...
by JeffD on Dec 13, 2007 2:17 PM EST 0 recs
Memo
by Beware the Molinas on
Dec 13, 2007 5:41 PM EST
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wonderboy, and beware...
Thanks, I needed it.
by the Tewk on
Dec 13, 2007 11:36 PM EST
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McGwire
Are you telling me that he's being (so far) black balled from the Hall of Fame based on what we already know and nothing more?
by Robb on Dec 13, 2007 2:21 PM EST 0 recs
the only thing I saw on McGwire
During the course of this investigation, we interviewed a number of coaches, club
personnel, former teammates, and other persons who know McGwire. Only Canseco, who
repeated the allegations from his memoir, said he had knowledge of McGwire's alleged use of
steroids.
by Matty I on
Dec 13, 2007 2:23 PM EST
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Correct
by lightbulb on
Dec 13, 2007 2:24 PM EST
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Yes BUT
by bgodar on
Dec 13, 2007 2:30 PM EST
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Innocent until proven guilty?
Did his testimony make him look bad? Does his turning down Mitchell's request for an interview look bad? Yes and yes.
In a court of law, they'd have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't think it's enough in McGwire's case. And considering they have multiple sources stating they never saw or knew of him using.... perhaps he's owed an apology?
I'll be the first to agree that if he didn't do it, then he should just say "I didn't do it" and be done with it. His choice to "not talk about the past" certainly casts a large shadow of doubt.
I suppose the point of my post is this: I find it interesting that there was no new evidence listed about him, and wonder if it will be addressed at all, by the media or him.
This is more of a general post, bgodar, not directed at you specifically.
by SmashedAtoms on
Dec 13, 2007 4:17 PM EST
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Mostly talking to myself....
Of course, it begs the question... was he ever tested? Maybe, maybe not. We don't really know.
I'm interested in this years HOF vote to see how he does, in light of this report. If he does get voted in, maybe they'll bring out that statue.
On the other hand, what a vote of confidence if they unveil it now just based on this report, BEFORE the HOF vote.
Feel free to comment.
by SmashedAtoms on
Dec 13, 2007 4:57 PM EST
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