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If we trade Rolen....

Has anyone thought of the possiblity of the Cards moving Pujols back to third and playing Duncan at first makin left field available for that Right handed OF bat the Cards crave? And if you can move Rolen for a decent starting pitcher, this could possibly work out. I have been an advocate of trading Duncan recently because if he moved back to first or went to DH then it would be best for HIM and the Cards. This guy would be better off for the Cards if he moves to first or is dealt for a pitcher because we could find a bat that can produce like he can, a pitcher would be worth letting him go, IMO.

Also, Reyes needs to go, he wont be good until he gets away from Duncan. Duncan somehow doesnt want him to pitch the way he was successful in the Minors. But he did that in Game 1 of the WS and look how great that turned out. We need to make some moves that will be good for the team and these players, we could probably send reyes and a few b grade prospects to get Tejada and fill the SS hole for this year.

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It's a nice thought, but
Pujols' arm can't handle 3rd base as it stands right now. He would need TJ surgery to be able to handle that kind of load.

by jeff abs on Nov 9, 2007 12:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Good thought...
But Pujols will finish his career at 1B.  He can't play the hot corner anymore as his arm is too weak and would have to make too many tough throws across his body to get it done.  He's also the top rated defensive first baseman in the big leagues, so this would actually be creating a defensive problem to solve an offensive one.

As to your secong point, everyone needs to go back and watch that WS performance by Reyes again before harping on how good he was in that game.  That game was the perfect storm for Reyes: no high ball mashers in the lineup, a bunch of free swinging playes with no patience, and a dry cold night in a big ballpark where the ball didn't carry.  His stuff was good in that game, but watch how many hitters ran three ball counts in that game -- there were very few.  That Tiger team had been successful by being very aggressive against pitching staffs that were heavy strike throwers.  Against a patient hitting team like Boston or the Mets, that game could have been a disaster for Reyes, kinda like the entire year was last year.  Duncan knows that he cannot be successful throwing the ball up in the zone in the big leagues -- there are only a handful of guys who can pull that off and they all throw much harder than Reyes does.  He will get tattooed with taters throwing up in the zone.  The young man needs to listen and learn how to pitch instead of just going out there and expecting his stuff to get him through.

"The Cardinals have won a World Series in THEIR new stadium!" --my Uncle Jim to a heckling Cubs fan

by fourstick on Nov 9, 2007 12:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I am not disagreeing...
as I feel Reyes doesn't have the "stuff" for the big leagues either, but trying to change his approach obvioiusly isn't working either.  He has had success more than once (see white sox 1-hitter) pitching to his strengths...why not let him go out there and throw?

by cardzfanbub on Nov 9, 2007 1:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Reyes
Here is the problem.  People only bring up two games when discussing the guy.

WS GM 1 & White Sox game.

Every MLB pitcher looks great at somepoint in their career, remember they all had the skills to get to this point.  At the MLB level then it takes extra special guys to excel even more.  Reyes seems to be stuck not being able to capitalize on this talent and every MLB player has talent.  How you build upon it allows you to stick and then determins how much of a average player/star/superstar you can become.

I for one do not believe Reyes has the stuff or deception to live up in the zone consistently.  If he tries to pitch that way all the time he is going to get killed.

I don't think it is a Duncan thing.  No pithcing coach is going to let a guy with no deception throw 92 MPH stuff up in the zone consistently.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 9, 2007 3:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe...
the guy just needs to pitch in the AL Central.

by mynameistyler on Nov 9, 2007 3:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

don't forget...
... that Reyes in WS Game 1 was also facing a team which hadn't seen live pitching in over a week.

he pitched well that game; there's no denying it. but the game against the ChiSox was much better. unfortunately, as everyone has said, that's only one or two games. hell, Bud Smith had a coupla good games, but that didn't make him a good pitcher.

by kindred on Nov 9, 2007 4:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How about
I doubt it'd be straight up but it sounded like the White Sox would trade Joe Crede. See if they'd take Reyes. Then Rolen could be traded as well. Looks like both could use a change of scenery to rejuvenate them.

Just wishful thinking. I know.  

by JShell73 on Nov 9, 2007 2:25 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Really?
'Cause I was about to mention in a previous thread that a replacement for Rolen that I wouldn't mind would be Crede. If they would unload him for a Reyes deal, I would be more than in favor. How much is Crede being paid?

Crede has a solid glove at third, and when healthy, can be a huge power threat at the plate.

I'd still like to keep Rolen, though, but as far as replacements go, Crede might be one of our best bangs for the buck.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Nov 10, 2007 4:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Pujols to 3rd?
From the "Did you know" file. Chris Duncan was drafted as a third baseman.

I am not in favor of moving the best defensive 1st baseman in the game to make him an average 3B while you put an average 1B in his place to save him from being a below average outfielder. Maybe, you move Duncan to 3B and then you make a below average outfielder a below average third baseman and put an above average outfielder in his old spot. (Ludwick)

I have now confused myself...better go back to shock treatments! Have a good weekend.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Nov 9, 2007 5:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

O God
The thought of Ducan playing third.  Man that boy can hit, but shows every reason why the DH was invented.  
Save the Kipper don't make him go back out there.

by gibbyfan on Nov 9, 2007 7:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You cannot ask your pitchers to pitch to
contact if Chris Duncan is playing third.  You just cannot do that.....

by jillsinmo on Nov 9, 2007 7:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Amen
We do it, then we need a shortstop with alot of friggin range, and he can just tell Dunc to get he hell out of the way every play.
Save the Kipper don't make him go back out there.

by gibbyfan on Nov 9, 2007 9:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You didn't confuse me
Elvis, I followed you but I don't think it"s the best thing to do. I haven't given up on Duncan in left field yet. I know it's an adventure to see him go after anything other than a routine fly but he really tries. My real concern is he seems pretty gun shy of the wall and can really get turned around when he gets near it. If he can conquer that I believe he will whip the rest. Pujols is such a good instintive first basemen, always doing unusual things like cutting down lead runners etc. He should stay on first.

by ridgesee on Nov 9, 2007 8:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

With due respect,
IMHO that is wishing thinking.  Dunc for all his effort will never be more than a slightly below average defensive OFer.  His outfensive output will create a halo effect from time to time, but I can't see him being above average.  This is just another reason to deal him now.  
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Nov 9, 2007 8:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

When did Pujols ever play 3rd?
He's not a natural/secondary third baseman, he kind of played it as a utility guy, back in the rookie days. Right?
Time to bring up the prospects.

by CraveCase on Nov 10, 2007 1:50 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nope...
Pujols came up through the system as a third baseman. He was apparently rather decent defensively too. He later switched to left field and then to 1B.
WWJD -- What Would Jocketty Do

by joshuadivine on Nov 10, 2007 8:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i forgot about
The arm problem since i havent heard about it recently. But i think we should trade reyes while people are willing to give us something for him. We should have traded him a couple years ago but thats just what I think.
Bill DeWitt needs to stop holding out and let Mo sign quality players!

by Ibeatanorexia06 on Nov 10, 2007 3:36 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

i thought it was Albert's LEFT elbow
that needed TJ? i'm probably wrong though.

any one who thinks Albert would be average or less than average at 3rd clearly doesn't remember his early days as a Cardinal. dude was a Gold Glove caliber 3rd baseman.

although for him to return to that form he'd probably have to drop about 30 lbs.

tejada is a pipe dream. the Cards dont have the chips to get him.  

it sounds like MO is really trying to trade Rolen. so we better get ready for the possibility of a new 3rd baseman next year. i cant see the Cards eating the majority of his salary, but they are shopping him.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Nov 11, 2007 12:27 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Come to think of it
I think it is the left elbow. I think it wouldnt be a bad idea if he can handle it over at third. But if we keep Rolen, I would be fine with that because he's one of my favorites on the team. Some people say that Bonser is a possibility for him which wouldn't be a bad idea IMO. If we can get Bonser, who pitched well in the AL central, then I think it would be worth it. Then you go sign a low risk guy for left field. There are a couple guys I wouldn't mind seeing in the BOB. Reggie Sanders for no more than 3 mil and that would give Ludwick more playing time. Or even shannon stewart for resonable dollars. It wouldnt be so bad without Rolen, but I don't want to see him go.
Bill DeWitt needs to stop holding out and let Mo sign quality players!

by Ibeatanorexia06 on Nov 11, 2007 1:30 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Also
There would be the possibility of signing Pedro Feliz. He has a solid bat and didn't do too bad fielding last year. Not anything like Scott but he would be serviceable. That keeps Speezer on the bench and keeps our bench strong.
DON'T Re-Sign Eckstien!

by Ibeatanorexia06 on Nov 11, 2007 1:34 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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