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Around SBN: NFL Roundtable: Which Draft Pick Is Most Likely To Bust?

The Half Assed Approach to Foundation Repair

Winter is steadily creeping in to this particular corner of the world, and I really could not be happier.  It's always seemed strange, even to me, that someone who loves baseball so much can possibly love winter as well.  What can I say?  I've always been a cold weather person.  Plus, I love all varieties of hot beverages and soups, but can't stand them in warm weather.  None of this has anything to do with anything, I know, but I'm feeling cheerful, not to mention loquacious, this morning.  On to the baseball!  

I haven't said too much yet about my feelings toward the Mozeliak signing, mostly because I'm pretty on the fence about the whole thing.  I was all kinds of excited about the prospect of Antonetti coming here, and in the initial disappointment of his pulling out of consideration, I was pretty down on the whole situation.  After the initial let down, though, I looked at the situation and I'm actually pretty happy with the way the whole thing went down.  I still think CA was the best choice, but I definitely think the Cards did the best out of the other candidates.  I didn't like Hahn; as Lb stated yesterday, the team he helped put together is in the same straits as this Cardinal team.  In fact, the White Sox's farm system is probably even worse than what we have here.  Woodfork seemed a little interesting, but, by many reports, he had very limited experience in actually making deals and working to sign players, and I get the feeling he may not have been ready for the responsibility.  Really, the only other name I was really intrigued by was Paul DePodesta, and he has his warts too.  He helped to put together a very nice farm system, but his major league dealings were less impressive.  The thing about DePo, though, is that there seemed to be a lot of front office 'noise' throughout his tenure; it seemed there were competing directions and very little cohesion in the front office, making it hard to get a great feel for how well he actually did his job, to me.  

So I think Mo was probably the best fit of the bunch, honestly.  He's already proven he can work within the framework of this front office, (to me, that's probably the biggest issue) and he has a nice rapport with most of the players and their agents.  I'll reserve judgement until we see a little more from him with actual control; as many others here have already stated, we have a couple of fantastic barometers in the persons of David Eckstein and So Taguchi.  The way those two situations ulimately resolve will give us a whole lot of info about where this team is going.  Which brings us to my main point.  

So far, all the statements we've heard have been along the lines of, "we need to evolve/ retool/ get younger, but we're going to stay competitive while we do it."  Those statements, to me at least, are really worrisome.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's possible to do both at the same time, and I don't enjoy watching a bad product on the field, but sometimes the only way to take a great leap forward is to back up and get a running start.  The foundation of this team still has a couple of nice parts, but, overall, the squad needs some new core pieces, not just some cosmetic work around the edges.  I'm afraid that DeWitt and Co. are trying to keep the fan base happy with a winning product in the short term, rather than trying to make sure there's some truly great baseball to look forward to in the future.  Personally, I think the fan base would stick with the team through a down year or two, especially if the organisation was sure to make the long term plan clear.  The problem is that, outside of a vocal minority, (which, incidentally, includes a lot of us) most of the fan base would see a youth movement not as a necessary rebuild, but as a money driven scaling back.  Ownership, instead of just trying to ameliorate those fears with excursions into the free agent market, needs to communicate better to the fan base, make it clear why certain things need to be done, in order to make the next great franchise run possible.  I'm reminded of something I read in Bob Forsch's Cardinal remembrance book a couple of years ago.  He said that Whitey Herzog had a philosophy on building a team.  He said, "You should try to get to the World Series every third year.  Then, while the goodwill from that WS appearance lasts, you scale back and build the team that'll get you there again in two years."  I don't completely agree with that, but I think there's a good lesson to be learned: the fan base will tolerate some down years, so long as they can see the success coming.  

So far, the moves the team has made this offseason haven't been terrible ones, but they haven't really been anything to write home about either.  At the very least, they haven't shown any real imagination or innovation; again, though, these probably aren't make or break moves anyway.  We overpaid for Russ Springer, but it's only one year, so at least he's not blocking anyone.  The Pineiro deal bugs me a little more, though.  At two years, it's still manageable, and the money, again, is probably too high, but whatever.  The thing I see with Joel is that the Cardinals do have one of the better pitching coaches in the game, (as much as I disagree with him at times) and if he really thinks he can do good work with someone, I suppose you have to listen to him.  I still just have the feeling, though, that come next August, we're going to feel, watching Joel pitch, much like a woman who goes home with Mark Wahlberg after seeing Boogie Nights.  Yes, technically, you knew you were seeing an illusion, but you still can't help but be disappointed.  

Deals like Pineiro's are what really worry me about this half assed, (see how I brought the title back in?) rebuilding approach.  He shouldn't be truly terrible, but signing guys like him are the sorts of marginal moves that get in the way of really overhauling the roster.  Oh well, hope for the best, I suppose.  

A few other things:  

I would really like to see the Cards get involved in trying to sign Kosuke Fukudome.  He's in the prime of his career, he's something the Cardinals need badly, i.e. a right handed hitting outfielder, and, most importantly, he doesn't cost you any talent to bring in.  He won't be cheap, but the organisation can better afford to overpay in dollars right now than they can in talent.  You bring in Fukudome, and you can free up Duncan to be moved for a long term solution at shortstop or a young pitcher.  I hate to see you go, Chris, but you're probably our best bullet to upgrade the really bad areas.  

I'm sure a lot of you have already checked it out, but if you haven't, Future Redbirds has been counting down the top Cardinal prospects for the past week or so.  Both erik and azruavatar have completed their lists; no surprises at the top, but each have put forth great reasons for their picks to go along with the lists.  If you read this blog, and haven't checked theirs out yet, you really should.  Both of them do phenomenol jobs of covering the Redbirds' system.  During the season, I would check here for my daily dose of reality, then head over there for my daily dose of hope.  It's an approach I wholeheartedly recommend.  

I was listening to the radio the other day, and there was a little news story about the University of Texas.  I wasn't really paying attention, so I have no idea what it was about, but I immediately thought of Kyle Russell, the Cards' fourth round pick that they failed to come to terms with.  I started considering the failed negotiations, in light of the changes since, and wondering how the negotiations might have been different if everyone in the front office was on the same page.  Luhnow picked him, Walt, I believe, was the one trying to get a deal done with him.  To me, that alone says an awful lot about the dangers of having the kind of divide the Cards had in the front office.  

Look at it this way.  Whatever your job is, say you have a rival.  This person is in a very similar position to you, and, in fact, the two of you sort of compete with each other.  Now, you have a big project coming up, and your bosses have decided to bring in some outside help.  You're going to be the point for the project, but your rival is in charge of choosing the outside help.  If you end up being successful, you'll look good, yes, but your rival is going to get a ton of credit for choosing just the right person to bring in.  Now, you're a professional, so you will, of course, do your best to work with whoever is brought in.  But, honestly, would you really be able to be totally effective, with all of that baggage going in?  That's the situation that Walt and Mr. Luhnow were in.  Walt was responsible for trying to sign a player that a man who he viewed, (rightly or wrongly) as a rival and a usurper, had chosen.  If Walt signs the kid, and he turns out to be great, who gets the credit?  Certainly not the guy who negotiated a deal.  Now, I would never suggest Jocketty would ever purposely damage the organisation due to a difference in philosophy with another executive, but I can't imagine that having such a gigantic conflict of interests in the middle of a negotiation is helpful, to say the least.  I would be very interested to hear from anyone involved in the Russell talks as to how much urgency was shown by the Cardinals to try and get him into the organisation.  

The Gold Gloves have been awarded; both Albert and Yadi got massively screwed, in my ever so humble opinion. Albert, in particular, was head and shoulders better than anyone else at his position. Unfortunately, the Gold Gloves are becoming more and more of a joke all the time; just ask Derek Jeter. Hardcore Legend put up a diary about it already; some good discussion, and lots of spleen being vented, deservedly so.

Finally, on a non baseball related note, the St. Louis International Film Festival begins tomorrow, the 8th of November, and runs through the 18th.  I know a lot of people on here don't live in St. Louis, but if you do, do yourself a favour and check out this event.  Chris Clarke, the director of Cinema St. Louis, does an amazing job of putting this thing on each year, and it's really grown into one of the better festivals in the country.  I've gone each of the past three years, and have seen some truly wonderful films that, otherwise, I never would have even been aware of.  I can't recommend the event highly enough.  Give it a chance, you won't be sorry.  

Only a few more weeks until the Winter Meetings; between now and then, we should get a better handle on how this offseason is going to go.  Let's all hope that the 'new direction' talk isn't just lip service.  Until next time.  

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Crap.
I could have sworn he was a right handed hitter.  See, this is what happens when you don't research things properly.  Hmmm.  Even so, he's still worth checking out, but less desirable to me now.  Shoot.  
The 2007 offseason: Butter? Or Steel?

by the red baron on Nov 7, 2007 9:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Throws righty
He's one of those pesky righty thrower and lefty hitters.
Still worth kicking the tires to see how much it would take to get him and keep him away from the Cubs, but doesn't fill as much of a need.

by jroman on Nov 7, 2007 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

if he can be added
cheaper than a 2nd or third tier starter, then we could move duncan for a young pitcher and insert him into duncans spot, it might still be worth a look

just a thought

Come on 2009!

by benstl on Nov 7, 2007 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

But...
woudln't the team wanting a LF hitting outfielder simply sign him instead of trading for Duncan? Better for them to spend a little on a FA than trade a young pitcher.

by DiscoJer on Nov 7, 2007 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the post.
I am ready for winter and soup, too.  And the Hot Stove season.  Checked out your link for the St. Louis International Film Festival.  Some very intriguing flicks are playing, but, alas, I live much too far from the Lou to attend.  

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 7, 2007 9:30 AM EST reply actions  

The Pineiro signing
doesn't really bother me.  It would be troublesome if it blocked young guys, but we really don't have anybody who's reasonably ready to step in the rotation, and several open spots.  Short-term deals to fill spots that they don't have anybody to fill don't seem like a bad idea.

The only way they can fix the foundation and stay competitive at the same time is to spend some money.  Some well-spent money on guys who make a real difference isn't a bad idea.  What bothers me is when they go out and target "veterans" who don't offer much over the in-house guys.  The Springer signing is probably in that class, but it's small potatoes.  Now, if they re-sign Eckstein and bring in a guy like Aaron Rowand, I might have to agree with you.

by CardFaninVA on Nov 7, 2007 9:40 AM EST reply actions  

Spending money
Just watched the 'Easter Game' from 2006 and the Reds broadcasters were commenting that we had a lineup that included John Rodriguez, Aaron Miles, Scott Spiezio, Skip Schumaker, and So Taguchi.

They talked about how the Cardinals had sold 3.5 M tickets for 2006 already and they couldn't figure out why they were forced to put out such a craptastic lineup.  Were they scaling back on the money?

Anyways, it got me thinking.  The Cardinals in 2005 sold 3.5 M tickets, sold more in 2006 and more in 2007.  Payroll went down in 2006 from 2005.  Not only so much that but the talent level dropped off considerably.  They began replacing B talent with low C talent, but not necessarily paying them as low C talent.

Why exactly are the Cardinals not able to compete on a big name FA?  When was the last time they actually signed one who hadn't already been a Cardinal?  They have a new stadium that is privately financed (they keep all the money), a rabid fanbase and I believe they are one of the few teams that actually profit off of revenue sharing.

It's not so much that people would see DeWitt as being cheap going forward from 2008 thru 2010 to rebuild.  It's that they saw him being cheap from 2005-2007 and letting a lot of talented FA go by as a team that should have been in 3 straight WS could barely get back there.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 7, 2007 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Steve Stone
Steve Stone said the same thing all year.  He had a radio show on 670 the score this whole baseball season.

He was on every Monday from 4-6 and he was on every Thursday from 12-2.  

Stone obviously discused Cubs and Sox baseball but he discussed the NL Central quite often.  He said it was pretty much mind boggling to all baseball people as to why the Cardinals declined to spend money the past few years.  He noted the same thing about increasing attendence and the obvious extra money they have been making as an organiztion by being in the playoffs so many years.

I understand spending $$ does not directly corralate to a WS win.  But STL has probably been kind of cheap as of late.  They have made small signings but nothing of note.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 7, 2007 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

It's not mind boggling at all
Consider the following options I present to you.
  1.  You wake up in the morning, have breakfast, and go play outside.   Someone pays you $75k/year for that.
  2.  You wake up in the morning and go to work for 8 or 9 hours.  You do that 5 days/week, 50 weeks per year.  Someone pays you $75k/year for that.
Which would you rather do?  DeWitt is no idiot.  He is a businessman.  An extra million in profit is an extra million in profit.  He didn't finance the stadium out of the good of his heart, nor did he lock up Pujols long term out of the good of his heart.

by sdrone on Nov 7, 2007 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly
People don't go into business to lose money. DeWitt is not to blame.

There is a certain amount of money to be spent, and it's up to the personnel peeps to spend it wisely, which has not been done during the past couple of seasons.

If you want to have a few high-dollar (or mad backloaded) contracts on the books, that's great. But you better be able to balance those with good, cheap homegrown kids. This is where the Cardinals' personnel peeps have failed.

by 26thMan on Nov 7, 2007 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

baseball
isnt dewitts business
he had money before and he will have a load more after he sells the cardinals
hes made his money. even if he does loose 10 mill a year for 10 years, he would still come out ahead

this fanbase ponys up like we were a huge market east coast team and better than cities with double our size

if he has to reach sometimes, then so be it
but i totally agree about talent evaluation

injuries are killing us

Come on 2009!

by benstl on Nov 7, 2007 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

baseball IS...
dewitt's business now. I don't like it, but I don't blame him for pocketing money that could be used to better the team.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Nov 7, 2007 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

ok, to play devils advocate
i, like a lot of us, bash dewitt for his cheapness
and its mostly deserved

but we have really lucked out to have swung and missed at a lot of these guys

schmidt is the first to have hit my mind, but with our defense last year, we might have also have been lucky to have missed on suppan

most free agent pitchers end up busts

i can say i wish we had somehow been in on soriano, but outside of that i cant think of a lot of people we missed out on lately
outside of burnett who seems to get hurt a whole lot anyway

someone correct me here, im sure im missing someone big

Come on 2009!

by benstl on Nov 7, 2007 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

But did we really thing that Reggie Sanders
was going to be our LF of the future?  What about Larry Walker?  The Cardinals came off of just being in the World Series in 2004, why could they have not bid on Carlos Beltran and moved Edmonds to LF/RF?  Why bid on David Eckstein and not the superior Orlando Cabrera?  How about putting in a bid for Jermaine Dye?  How about Jeff Kent instead of Grudz?

Why do the St. Louis Cardinals, in a better financial position that 90% of all the baseball organizations in the league, have to always bid on or sign the cheaper, safer bets?  How about paying for talent for once?

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 7, 2007 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

RE: DeWitt being a cheapskate
I came across this article a while back, thought it was relevant to this convo.  Heyman over at SI wrote an article blaming DeWitt's cheapness for the collapse of 07 and DeWitt literally called him about it with his rebuttal.

He said "they annually push the envelope on payroll. Because of lower local TV revenues than New York, Boston or L.A., we're not in position to have a payroll they have."

He also said they've actually lost money seven of 10 years that he and his partners have owned the team.

Personally I'm crying bullshit.  He may have taken a small loss to get a huge gain which he probably reaped in 06 and 07.  

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Nov 7, 2007 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

New Core
so, um...who do you propose being the core?

Our last core included a power hitting 1B blended into a Gold Glove power hitting CF, a all-world power hitting LF/3B/1B player and a Gold Glove power hitting 3B.

Now, we've got the all world 1B left but who is going to give us younger, Gold Glove power hitting talent for something not named Colby Rasmus?

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 7, 2007 9:40 AM EST reply actions  

New Core Players
Well, for one, I don't suggest trying to get anything for Colby Rasmus.  You hold on to that kid, pretty much no matter what.  He's your new center fielder.  You have one really nice trading chip right now.  His name is Chris Duncan.  Try to turn him into a young stud shortstop.  As many grounders as Duncan staffs generate, you had better put an outstanding defense behind them.  

That's pretty much the best you can do this year.  By next year, either Bryan Anderson or Yadier Molina should be available to net another nice piece.  Hopefully, by that time, you also have some inexpensive pitching help ready.  All the salary that comes off the books after 08, you devote to one or two impact players on extended deals.  

I didn't say you could build a great nucleus in just this offseason.  That's going to take a little bit of time.  I think it can be done, though, if the team doesn't mortgage it all away in the meantime.  

The 2007 offseason: Butter? Or Steel?

by the red baron on Nov 7, 2007 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

What is to say that Colby Rasmus isn't
the next Lastings Millidge or JD Drew?

I just think that this core of players has to come from somewhere but I'm not particularly sure where from.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 7, 2007 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

You know that could be true
the Cards have so few great prospects come down the pike that Rasmus just might be causing too much excitement. I'd hold him though even though a bonafide #1 started would be  verrrry tempting.

by ridgesee on Nov 7, 2007 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

PS
You know I just remembered. Todd Zeile caused almost as much excitement as Rasmus when he was about to come onto the scene and he turned out to be no more than average.

by ridgesee on Nov 7, 2007 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

true
It is so hard to evaluate guys who have done nothing at the MLB level.  

Someone had posted earlier that our system is so bad we all seem to get a bit too excited about guys who may be off the radar in other systems.  I think there is some absolute truth to that statement.

Now I think Rasmus is probably a top 5 in any system but I don't think he would be a #1 in the majority though.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 7, 2007 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Rasmus
Actually Rasmus is so highly touted right now that I have a feeling he would be the #1 in the majority of systems after this season.  Rasmus was ranked #29 by Baseball America last winter.  Above him on that list that won't be ranked this coming winter:

1 DAISUKE MATSUZAKA, rhp, Red Sox
2 ALEX GORDON, 3b, Royals
3 DELMON YOUNG, of, Devil Rays
4 PHILIP HUGHES, rhp, Yankees
5 HOMER BAILEY, rhp, Reds
...
also in that top 28th, Braun, Tulowitzki, Lincecum, Andrew Miller, Jay Bruce and Cameron Maybin (the last two might go back to the minors but I doubt it).  You are talking about 20 or so players that might move off that list and Rasmus did not take a step back this year.  He will be top 10, which means he would be number one in no less then 21 systems.  Rasmus is that good, he may not pan out but don't think it is just our weak system making him look good (that might be happening with Hoffpauir, Mather etc. but not with Rasmus)

by StLHugo on Nov 7, 2007 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Rasmus
is considered by most authorities as the second best position prospect, behind only jay bruce of the reds. one could make a case for evan longoria or cameron maybin as better prospects, but no one else is really close. he would very easily be the number one position prospect in 29 other organizations.  

by Dave Barry on Nov 7, 2007 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I am hopeful
My god I hope he can come in take over in late 08/ all of 09!  

We need some new blood in CF that is going to put up some numbers.  I just hope there is not too much expected out of him.  If he can find a way to hit 18 HR/YR I will be more than happy.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 7, 2007 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Rasmus makes me very nervous
I saw him play quite a bit in Springfield last year. My impression wasn't that he's the best prospect in the world, it was that he's extremely inconsistent.

Don't get me wrong. Rasmus is one hell of a baseball player. The dude can mash the ball. But the way he was always hot and cold this season reminded me a lot of Jimmy Baseball. You love him when he's on fire, but you cringe a lot when he's not. Erik touched on this in his assessment at Future Redbirds, and rightfully so.

When you combine that inconsistency w/ all the hype that has been building thus far, taking into consideration that he hasn't even played a game in AAA, much less the majors... It just makes me nervous.

He's a nice kid who has been raised to be a professional baseball player. His father raised Colby and his brothers that way from a very young age. I think he could be phenomenal, but I'm cautiously optimistic right now, much like I was when I thought Antonetti would be the new GM.

I can't think of a good offseason signature.

by effin fisk on Nov 7, 2007 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Raised to be a ballplayer
AAAAHHHHHHH sounds like the Drew family!
"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 7, 2007 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

It's just J.D. not the family
he always plays ball like he would rather be somewhere else doing something else. Not so with his brother (is it Stephen, the Arizona SS) What little I saw of him last year he looked solid at bat and in the field and his mind really in the game. I'd take him in STL in a skinny minute.

by ridgesee on Nov 7, 2007 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

If he turns out to be Edmonds
in his prime -- that's pretty goddamned good, not something that would cause me consternation.

by chuckb on Nov 7, 2007 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Prospects are a wild card
and you are never quite sure what you are getting.  While I am, like most of us, very high on Rasmus, there are not guarantees with him.  I am by no means advocating that we move him, I would still listen to offers if it nets us a legitimate star big leaguer.  

Also, who knows what our (or any team's for that matter) farm holds.  You never know when a guy in "A" ball is gonna turn out to be a star, and the guy you pegged to be the next franchise player flames out.  It's a crap shoot - to an extent.  Pujols came out of nowhere, and wasn't on most people's radar.  Granted he's an exception, but the point being, highly tauted prospects don't always pan out, and sometimes the anonymous one's do.  

by joecardsfan on Nov 7, 2007 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

wrong.
Rasmus isn't just generating excitement because he's a great prospect in a system that has been barren up until recently. Rasmus is generating excitement because of the #'s he puts up, and how every baseball prospect guru rates him as a Top 10 prospect in all of baseball.

That being said, if we could flip him for a young, healthy ace type starter, of course i'd do it. The same if we could flip him for a young, healthy all-star caliber bat.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Nov 7, 2007 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Whose to say...
he doesn't turn into the next Grady Sizemore?  That's a strong possibility and if he does...well, there is a big piece of that core red baron was talking about.

It's true he could flop, but it's also quite possible that he blossoms into a star.

You don't trade him unless the deal brings you back Hanley Ramirez, Felix Hernandez, or the like.  In other words a young, cheap, superstar who is under team control for another for years....or, guys who don't get traded.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 7, 2007 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup
And your biggest problem is getting rid of the old core before you can build up a new one.

Rolen and Edmonds need to finish their contracts or gain some trade value on the field. I even toss out Izzy as a salary drag. The guy is entrenched with a no trade clause and he's a decent reliever but there is too much money in that position as far as I'm concerned. Izzy is not core for the money he's being paid. Mulder isn't helping either but injuries happen.

by HugeCardsFan on Nov 7, 2007 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

speaking of GM's
check out Fire Joe Morgan.

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2007/11/this-is-amazing.html

If the Pirates GM is really that foward thinking the NL central just got tighter.

by Harknights on Nov 7, 2007 9:41 AM EST reply actions  

Why?
Because he's not an idiot?
"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 7, 2007 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

The GM
not being an idiot should help the Pirates immensely.

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 7, 2007 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

That's what I was saying
A team in our division no longer has an idiot running it. Now they have a GM on the other end of the spectrum.

by Harknights on Nov 7, 2007 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Uhh
I'm almost positive that the vast majority of GM's at this point either look at or have someone whose job is solely to look at advanced measures.
Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Nov 7, 2007 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

apparently
the pirates until now didn't even look at OBP.  DeWitt recently said he "just learned the defense behind a pitcher will relate to his stats".

Look at TLR, he bases his whole strategy on lifetime match up stats that have almost no meaning due to small sample size and old data.  

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Nov 7, 2007 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Case in point was that bizarre
concept from a couple of years ago that Roger Cedeno "owned" Roger Clemens.  How many ABs did we waste running that stiff out there against Clemens?  Turns out all Cedeno's "damage" was from his AL years, and IIRC he didn't do jack against Clemens for us.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Nov 7, 2007 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Do we really know if
when TLR says he is playing the 'matchups' it relates only to Player A vs Player B and not Player A Type (hard thrower, curveball guy) vs Player B?
"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 7, 2007 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

no,
it's literal matchups.  He has specific matchup information on little post cards he puts in his pocket and refers to in the dugout during the game.  That was showcased in 3 Nights in August.  

What you are saying is what I've been saying with the Pitch F/X data.  Should be easy to group pitchers now and use collective matchup data.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Nov 7, 2007 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

rebuilding
You said it! If the cards can show us a plan to bring us back into contention, then I would be happy to stomach two, maybe three losing seasons, the thing tho is that you don't want to waste the best years of maybe the greatest player to play the game...I know Pineiro may not even be a .500 pitcher but we need to sign somebody to fill the gaps. I just hope its not Kyle Lohse at 5/50. I'm assuming we have more sense than that, especially since we don't really sign ANY pitcher to over a 3 year deal.
Erik Bedard would look good in red

by stlknows on Nov 7, 2007 9:42 AM EST reply actions  

I can see
going half way around the world in search of pitchers but not AAAA outfielders. There is a proposed trade or signing posted nearly every day for some outfielder of questionable health or quality.. Usually explained as being needed to replace Duncan who VEB commentators have already decided has to go. I agree that Duncan on surface, seems to be the best trading chip but I don't know if that is the way the Cardinal governing body is thinking at all and I have seen no real evidence of any other clubs coveting Duncan enough to give up what some have proposed as proper value for him, but even if it happens I don't see the the dire need of replacing him as some do. Maybe so but that can come later. As for as Fukudome, why not just resign So if Duncan goes. We know what he can do and he'll be cheaper than Fukudome leaving funds for pitching. I also have no trouble with the money paid to Pineiro. Pitching is now in the shortest supply I have ever seen at the major league level. It used to be that 10 and 12 game winners moved around the league every year for mediocre position players to fill teams needs. Not anymore. Somebody will throw 8 mil. at them in a heartbeat. The prospects of Pineiro winning as many as Glavine are about even in my estimation. Yet people are proposing offering 10 to 12 to Glavine.
With the Cardinals greatest weaknesses being SS and starting pitching It would seem to me that Pittsburg and the Giants would  be the teams I would be courting in the National league to fill my needs.. and American League.. possibly Cleavland, Minn...I don't know, maybe somebody else does.

by ridgesee on Nov 7, 2007 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm sorry...
but I stopped reading after "why not just resign So if Duncan goes."
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Nov 8, 2007 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahhh So
Thats japanese think for uhh huhh

by ridgesee on Nov 8, 2007 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

AJ Burnett
JP Riccardi has actually made the statement that he will listen to offers on him.  Mo, call him up.
"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 7, 2007 9:55 AM EST reply actions  

i know this idea has been discussed
a lot, what's the consensus on what it would take for us to pry away Burnett? How does Toronto's re-signing of Matt Stairs effect things?

Off the top of my head I'd guess they'd want something like:
Reyes, Tyler Johnson, Ottovino, Mather.

by airhad on Nov 7, 2007 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

It will take more than that
My guess is that it would have to be built around two legit top prospects, like Anderson and Perez, rather than a prospect who would not be near the top for most organizations (Ottavino) and a few random parts.

by tdawg on Nov 7, 2007 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

One year contract...
That's how he'll have to be marketed.

One top tier prospect and a throw in.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 7, 2007 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

one top prospect and a throw-in would be great
But I think they would tend to view Burnett as a player who is at least as valuable as Renteria -- and the Braves got two of the Tigers' top 5 (or so) prospects for Renteria.  I expect that the Jays would make the same demand, hence my prediction of Anderson and Perez

by tdawg on Nov 7, 2007 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Injury concerns...
Also, you get two years of Edgar while you only get one year of Burnett.

Not very comparable imo.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 7, 2007 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

his one year opt out muddies things
and waters down his trade value to some degree, i would think. Who would be a legit centerpiece other than Rasmus or Anderson? What's Reyes' value?

Maybe a high ceiling together with a high risk/high reward like McCormick?

What about Chris Perez?

by airhad on Nov 7, 2007 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Gold Gloves
MHO is Albert was screwed a bit, but it fairness while Albert is a much better feilder, Lee is a better reciever.  The later has higher value at first.  Yadi has a great arm, the best I ever have seen, but his other skills as a catcher are not as phenomenal...  Beside he was injured a large part of the year, so I was Russel Martin coming.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Nov 7, 2007 10:23 AM EST reply actions  

Zubin
that might have been great comments you just made, but like me, you need to work on typing and spelling. I would really like to decipher what you just said.

by ridgesee on Nov 7, 2007 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Glass houses, dude.
If you're going to go after someone because of their spelling, then save it. It doesn't advance the baseball discussion, and it comes off as kind of petty.

/comment police

by 26thMan on Nov 7, 2007 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I did get kind of silly
but it did strike me as so funny when I tried to read it that it was hard to resist. I should't have. Zubin does offer good comments though, I,ve noticed. But really, are the discussions here so serious that a little bit of good natured ribbing won't play.

by ridgesee on Nov 7, 2007 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

you know
I think I've 'bout figgered it out, but what does "So I was Russell Martin coming" mean.

by ridgesee on Nov 7, 2007 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Saw
I am guessing he meant "I saw Russell Martin coming"

by brafi on Nov 7, 2007 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh! .. I see
WAS is SAW spelled backwards. I can understand a mistake like that. I think backwards lots of times.. I still say Zubin should take his fingers out back and beat the shit out of all ten of them though.

by ridgesee on Nov 7, 2007 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

95%
of comments on here are like that, i am so used to it at this point, i had to re-read the original zubin post 3 times te even realize what you were talking about, because the first time through i had caught it all
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Nov 7, 2007 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd take Lee in a heartbeat
If Albert wasn't on this team. He's a better fielder(he has to be with all of those lousy arms the Cubs have), and he has more time at the position. Albert will get better than he already is(which is scary, if you think about it), and he will win his share of GG.

by cardsrul on Nov 7, 2007 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you've missed out on all the statistical
arguments for Pujols' fielding the last few days.

by sdrone on Nov 7, 2007 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Spelling, Albert and Yadi
Sorry about my grammar and spelling...  I posted from work today and because my internet time is limited, I did so in haste.

What I was trying to say is that while everybody here is enamored with Pujols ability to field ball off the bat, I think the voters put more value in a first baseman's ability to field throws from his fellow infielders.  I have seen no metrics on the subject, but I don't doubt Lee's superiority over Pujols in this respect.

As for Yadi, again I believe his throwing ability is tops in the majors.  However is ability to block balls to prevent wild pitches or passed balls is not as superlative.  If you consider that, Yadi's injury status and Martin's excellent hitting (a halo effect, no doubt), the vote makes sense in a way.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Nov 7, 2007 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's a reason to doubt....
"I have seen no metrics on the subject, but I don't doubt Lee's superiority over Pujols in this respect."

Read this.  
http://www.actasports.com/sow.php?id=85

by flynn on Nov 7, 2007 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Caveat
That article touched on the 2005 season, but it was about Pujols and Lee, so I felt that it was relevant.

by flynn on Nov 7, 2007 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I stand quite corrected.
Honestly tho, I am rather surprised.  Maybe Albert looks so good fielding off batted balls we ignore how good he is recieving?  Or perhaps Lee's long lean body type just seems more graceful stretching out off first?
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Nov 7, 2007 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't mean
to be snobbish zubin. It just threw me when you referred to Lee as being a receiver and then started talking about molena and martin. I had never heard of a firstbaseman being referred to as a reciever and I got all screwed up trying to remember lee  ever catching. besides I'm 72 years old and i don't see too good for the first three hours after I wake up.

by ridgesee on Nov 8, 2007 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

No offense taken
I post with haste in the mornings because my time is tight. Unfortunately there are consequences.   I'll take my lumps when I deserve them.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Nov 9, 2007 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Neither Albert or Lee....
was better than Todd Helton, the real snub at first base.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Nov 7, 2007 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Clint Barmes as a Cards SS??
I have lived in Colorado for a couple of years now, so have been exposed to the rockies for a while.  THey have a shortstop sitting in AAA Colorado Springs that might be worth a look.  He was the starter in 2005 and early 2006.  His 2005 numbers look pretty good, had an off year in 2006, then lost his job to Tulo. He will not be earning that job back any time soon.  Had a good year in Colorado Springs:

Colo Springs

Rockies

Not a superstar, but probably can be had for cheap.

by cdb on Nov 7, 2007 10:54 AM EST reply actions  

agree
Yeah - Barmes has the advantage of having more major league experience - which TLR likes.  He isn't exactly a veteran, but more than Ryan, who apparently needs a year or so of 'apprenticeship'.  A little healthy competition in spring training never hurt anyone.

by cdb on Nov 7, 2007 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Look at Barmes' splits
Big platoon splits. He's a great hitter against lefties but he really struggles against right-handers.

Also he only walks in about 5% of his plate appearances so he's a no go for the leadoff spot.

All in all I'd have to say pass. We need a lineup upgrade and I don't believe Barmes provides it.

I would rather see the Cards put together a package for Tejada. While Tejada is declining defensively he is a major upgrade to the lineup and probably a defensive upgrade over Eckstein.

by indakind on Nov 7, 2007 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

splits
I was actually more concerned about his home away splits - Colorado Springs is even higher in elevation than Denver, and I don't know if  they use a humidor.  We could use someone that hits lefties - it would be nice if the splits weren't so pronounced though. Good point. And despite his low walk rate, OBP isn't bad.  

Of course Tejada is better player, but it will cost considerably more in personel and dollars than Barmes.  

by cdb on Nov 7, 2007 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

MIF help
with miles, kennedy and ryan as our only middle infield right now I say we need all the help we can get. Barmes is a great idea! young, cheap, talented. If we dealt Reyes could we even get somebody else on top?
Erik Bedard would look good in red

by stlknows on Nov 7, 2007 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I just don't get it
He's 28 and hit .220/.264 in his only full year?

by sdrone on Nov 7, 2007 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

well, he's young and cheap at least
I wouldn't deal Reyes for Barmes straight up; that would be a decisive win for the Rockies.

by azruavatar on Nov 7, 2007 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I've read his price
Would be a MLB-ready reliever.

by liam on Nov 7, 2007 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow...
We'd get slaughtered in that deal.

Barmes isn't even the player that Ryan is.

BTW, everyone complaining about Eck's lack of range and arm would have a field day with Clint.

I might give them Jiminez or Cavazos

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 7, 2007 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

why do we need more
mediocre backup middle infielders? We don't even have enough roster spots for the ones we've got, especially when we add a SS.

by chuckb on Nov 7, 2007 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

finances and payroll
with the cardinals not being a publicly held company, anyone know if it is possible to get a comprehensive view of how they spend their revenue or even what their revenue is?  accepting that they seem to make some puzzling personnel decisions often attributed to finances, it would be interesting to know more about the basic financial apsects of the operation, such as 1) what fraction of ticket revenue goes to debt service on the stadium? 2) how much do they spend on scouting and signing amateurs (including undrafted, primarily latin, players), supporting their "academies", and the front oiffice, 3) how much are they paying for the backends of contracts for players not on the roster, 4) supporting their minor league operations, 5) how much media income, and 6) how much revenue sharing?  in short, what fraction of the total expenses are represented by the major league payroll?

just curious because i'm in favor of building of a sustaining operation and i often find myself caught up in the ml payroll issue.  i know they added a minor league team this year and i feel that awas an important, positive effort towards building a strong, internally developed talent-base.  so, when i see folks complaining about overpaying for for russ springer (which i agree with), my real concern is the loss of a million that could have gone to developing our talent base (e.g., signing russel).

just curious

by sportsman on Nov 7, 2007 11:36 AM EST reply actions  

I've always been curious as to how much
they spend on the minor leagues.  Salaries, money for international stuff, etc.

by sdrone on Nov 7, 2007 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't believe so
A few years ago either Fortune or Forbes magazine ran an analysis of all the MLB teams' revenues and spending with the limited amount of info that was available, but most of the figures in the report were just estimates.

by bailorg on Nov 7, 2007 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

this info
just isn't available. unless you're sitting in the boardroom with the prospectus. still, your point is well taken. woulda/coulda will just make people angry, nevertheless if we haven't wasted all that cash on re-signing spiezio it could have been appropriated towards development.

obviously the accounting doesn't work that way.

by airhad on Nov 7, 2007 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

comments on Red Baron comments
good post RB...nice buffet of thoughts to chew on

the "half-assed" strategy bothers me too....try to build for the future while selling seats this year seem to be a strategy for long term middlin'

let's consider two things

  1. While the Fla Marlins are not a model organization, their post 98 "not half-assed" fire sale didn't turn out too bad did it?  We don't have the same pure options but the strategy - in hindsight - is interesting.
  2. The Cards will never suffer from revenue....might lose a few million if non-contending but Busch will never be Marlin-empty
I agree with RB in that Card fans would weather 2-3 rebuilding years.  I also agree with Forsch/Whitey with the "every third year WS" strategy....I'd be happy with five

Takes some wisdom here - let's hope DeWitt, Mo and company have it because deeper holes are very easy to dig in this market place

by Hinkster on Nov 7, 2007 12:34 PM EST reply actions  

I agree in principle with the half-assed
concern as well (though I still believe it's way too early to assume that it is actually the Cardinals' strategy as opposed to PR ... talk to me again in mid-December).  OTOH, I feel a little funny, as a guy who lives in Baltimore and basically spends nothing on the Cardinals, telling a fan, who doesn't read VEB or give a rat's ass about VORP but might spend as much as $1000 a year at Busch, that his team won't be competitive in '08 because we have to suck it up for a couple of years.  In other words, the owners do have to throw a bone to those fans whether we like it or not.  What I'd LIKE to see is for the owners to put that strategy out there to everybody, be transparent about it, and maybe lower beer prices for half the season or something.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Nov 7, 2007 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Great idea
  1. Be transparent, honest and straightforward
  2. Throw the fans a bone or free beer just because
Now that would be leadership.....too bad we won't see that from MLB or the owners....they don't have to so they won't

Maybe someday a real classy leader with cahones will step forward boldly, make such moves, become beloved by fans and then all the owners trip over themselves to copy the new "innovative strategy"....we can always dream

My opinion of your OTOH, any fan who drops a grand at Busch and doesn't understand rebuilding patience probably is at the game for concessions and superficial entertainment and they'll always get that....so I don't worry too much about them

Take a look at season ticket sales...before a pitch is thrown....the downside of losing some of the remainder because of a downside doesn't make or break DeWitt or cost him a wink of sleep as long as he believes in the rebuilding plan....if he was worried about quarterly return like our bosses, he wouldn't be a MLB owner

by Hinkster on Nov 7, 2007 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

and a question
what's the latest on FA Randy Wolf's health and prospects....I always liked him when healthy

by Hinkster on Nov 7, 2007 12:35 PM EST reply actions  

Cards Fan can endure
a couple rebuilding years but why would you rebuild when you possibly have the best pure hitter in MLB in his prime? Put some talent around him and start a dynasty.

And then cry about all the money you lost as you're raising your WS trophies.

by JShell73 on Nov 7, 2007 1:03 PM EST reply actions  

Because there aren't enough FA out there...
to turn this team around and the minor league system is not going to be a big help anytime soon outside of Rasmus.  

Add onto that the core of the Cubs (Soriano, Ramirez, Lee, Zambrano, Lilly, Hill), Brewers (Sheets, Gallardo, Suppan, Fielder, Weeks, Braun), and Reds (Dunn, Phillips, Griffey, Bruce, Votto, Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Bailey) and you see that it will be very hard for us to compete against those teams with our best bullpen arms wanting to hang it up, the lack of a No. 2 pitcher let alone a 3 or a 4, and holes at 4-5 offensive positions depending on how you look at it.  For over a decade we competed for and won many division crowns and we even won a WS.  To do so, the minor league system was gutted and now we have to face the consequences.  

MLB history is full of guys who are the best player in their prime and stuck on bad teams.  We all should be happy (Albert especially) that we won the big one and for the next decade can boast, "Hey we won it recently".  It's hard to talk dynasty when you win the WS and then don't finish .500 the next year while most of your best players are declining.

by SpringfieldDude on Nov 7, 2007 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree to a point
Two thirds of the MV3 aren't what they used to be. Injury, age, whatever, it happens, but to in this age of free agency, you can at least field a competitive team. They didn't even do that last year. They underbid on lots of guys.  

I also agree MLB is a business and the owners aren't in it to lose money.

How many times are we called the best fans in baseball? We support our players, our team, and invest our time, effort and loyalty. And  then they try to pass off a $hitty product to save a couple bucks.

How many years in a row have ticket, food, and souvenir prices gone down?

Sorry I'm done with my rant now.

by JShell73 on Nov 7, 2007 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

the other factor in favor of retooling
is that the NL central is so weak. a team could make the playoffs with maybe 85 wins...

by airhad on Nov 7, 2007 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed to a point
However, you have to agree that the Brewers, Cubs, and Reds will all improve.  Brewers are full of young studs and I think Weeks will have a monster year.  Fielder and Braun are locks to put up big numbers, Hart is more comfortable in his position with the team and they will have a full year of Gallardo.  Even Manny Parra could become a factor in their rotation.

For the Reds, they keep their core of Griffey, Dunn, Phillips, Harang, and Arroyo while adding top 20 prospects Bruce, Votto, Bailey, and Cueto.  The Reds already were close to leading the league in runs scored.  If Bailey or Cueto click, could easily win 85 games especially with Dusty Baker at the helm.  While people will gripe about Dusty, his downside comes after he leaves the team and has overworked some young players while underworking others.  

For the Cubs, I see some regressing in Lilly, but while Lee, Ramirez and Soriano are all a year older (and Ramirez is turning 30 in a 35 year olds body), I think their production will at about the same level.  Even if it regresses a little, Soto showed he is going to be something and Felix Pie has yet to live up to his potential.  Add in a FA signing like Fukudome in RF and this team will probably win 85 games again if not more.

Even the Pirates have a better pitching rotation with Ian Snell and Tom Gorzelany at the head and certainly Oswalt is a better No. 1 for the Astros than Wainwright.

If you would have said, let's stock up for one year last year, I would have said 'hell yes', the NL Central is weak.  Now, I think the NL Central is on the rise and we aren't in a good position to compete.  It's time to take our WS championship and rebuild for the next 3-4 years.

by SpringfieldDude on Nov 7, 2007 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Colby Ramus and his insane number of doubles
Colby went 2 for 4 today with Team USA against Mexico.  He hit yet another double.  That's like a double in every game he has played.
"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 7, 2007 2:24 PM EST reply actions  

Wood or Aluminum
Are they using Wood or Aluminum?

by ICbirdfan on Nov 7, 2007 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

... made of jello.
"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 7, 2007 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

filled with jello
and you have a new ballpark treat! Just squeeze the end of the bat!

by Birds on the Matt on Nov 7, 2007 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

fill
it with vodka and you have a fun new college drinking game.  
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Nov 7, 2007 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Wood
I am fairly certain that all the professional games World Cups, Olympics and such use wood bats, if not then the games would probably be higher scoring then the 3-0 score from that game.

by StLHugo on Nov 7, 2007 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks!
Thanks.  I was not sure what they used for that competition.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 7, 2007 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Wood
"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 7, 2007 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Cliff Lee
Newsday today speculated that the Indians and Mets are in discussions about a possible Cliff Lee swap.  

I would hope the Cardinals are atleast kick the tires here.  He's LH pitcher that lives around 91-92 but has a devistating curveball.  He has a moderate contract of $3.75M in 2008, $5.75M in 2009, and has a $8M club option ($1M buyout) in 2010.

If the Mets snag him from the Indians for very little, I'll be hugely disappointed.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 7, 2007 3:34 PM EST reply actions  

And Joe Strauss basically shot down
any attempts by the Cards to acquire him:

http://www.stltoday.com/discussions/sports/joe-strauss-live/LD110507116/all

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 7, 2007 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

as an aside about those chats
The question askers are so nauseating in their flattery that I have a hard time wading through their bullshit to see what they've asked.  And the constant!!! exclamation!!! points!!! from!!! everyone doesn't help.  Strauss started doing that in his chats and I thought it was clever but now it's officially tired and cliche.

(And none of that is a reflection of my opinion of Strauss as he's been gracious enough to answer my correspondence in the past and I think he's generally a very good reporter.)

by azruavatar on Nov 7, 2007 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I kind of like the inside-jokiness of that
whole thing.  The column makes me laugh sometimes, not a bad thing, and has some personality.  And consider the fact that his questioners are the same people who post on the PD boards, so we should be lucky it's not worse than it is!

by MdRedbirdFreak on Nov 7, 2007 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm very disappointed
that you didn't start a "cliff lee" diary...

by SleepyCA on Nov 7, 2007 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I considered it
but then the thought of a butterfly in a snowstorm popped into my head and completely changed the random thought I was having.

In other news, Mo says on Stlcardinals.com today that we have no restrictions on payroll at this time .  Everyone that believes that, stand on your head and whistle.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 7, 2007 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course we don't have restrictions
We can absolutely go as low as possible.

by sdrone on Nov 7, 2007 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Not a good fit....
While his salary looks tasty, he's not all that he is cracked up to be.  I am from Cleveland, and follow the Tribe (however, not as much as the Cards!).  The only reason he is mentioned as a solid starter is because he won 18 games two years back, and he's a lanky lefty.  His cons far outweigh his pros, namely he can't throw a fastball to save his life, he is very inconsistent (from pitch to pitch, inning to inning, and start to start), and his attitude stinks.  I can already envision, if he were acquired, him and Duncan brawling in the bullpen.  He's a head case, and even for his cheap salary, his baggage and our giving up x,y, & z to get him is not worth it.  Let the Mets have him.

by joecardsfan on Nov 7, 2007 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

White Sox re-sign Uribe
Not diary worthy (though it was tempting to make a "Juan Uribve" diary) but the White Sox have reached terms with SS Juan Uribe.

I would assume this takes them out of the Eckstein race.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Nov 7, 2007 7:26 PM EST reply actions  

Most teams...
are probably looking at him for 2B.
"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 7, 2007 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

And right after
they reported on the White Sox re-signing Uribe, Dibble and Kennedy (on The Show on XM) said there were reports that the Giants were close to a new deal (one year, I think) with Omar Vizquel.  The SS market is shrinking by the minute.  

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 7, 2007 8:45 PM EST up reply actions  

the Eckstein Race???
you jest.  I just hope somebody picks him up, lest Mo thinks he gets a bargain in January so tlr can have another ST competition.
Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Nov 7, 2007 8:50 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right
I do jest.

But if there was a race, it would be a real grinder.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Nov 8, 2007 4:05 AM EST up reply actions  

hijack (two of them) sorry
first, Brad Lidge and Eric Bruntlett traded to the Phillies for Michael Bourn, Geoff Geary and Mike Costanzo.  Was Reyes really enough to get Bourn?  Is Costanzo any good?  

second, Birds on the Bat...looks like I hijacked your name.  sorry about that...I'm new.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3099599

by birdsonthebat on Nov 7, 2007 10:48 PM EST reply actions  

Houston may have just partially atoned
for last season's trade with the Rockies.  If Costanzo keeps mashing the ball in AAA next year and Bourn plays to his potential I think the 'stros come out on top of this trade.

I'll be looking forward to a Bourn vs. Molina Battle of the Bases next season.

by SethWestern on Nov 7, 2007 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed, but kinda sad
that Lidge is out of the Central.  I went to college in Texas and never let my Houston friends forget Game 5.  Pretty sure that ball still hasn't landed.

by birdsonthebat on Nov 7, 2007 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, ed wade got busy fast
might be a good deal for both teams though, as it fills needs on the astros and should let the phils move Myers back to the rotation -- but i would have believed lidge was worth more than that even with his recent struggles...

it's funny that wade's first deal was with the Phils. it'll be interesting to see who "wins" this one.

by SleepyCA on Nov 7, 2007 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

to botb
looks like you've been here a while since you didn't use any caps.  just don't say anything too stupid, or start a diary for ever player headlined, and it won't be a problem.  there are actually two birds on the bat.
Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Nov 7, 2007 11:56 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks, BotB
i'll do my best; feel free to correct me if i do say something stupid.  looks like someone already took the diaries for this one anyway.

by birdsonthebat on Nov 8, 2007 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I just died alittle inside
now what the hell are we going to trade Anthony Reyes for?  We are already getting a fungo to be named later for Rolen per the Damon thread.

Maybe a tarp that doesn't become airborn in biblical storms?

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 8, 2007 2:00 AM EST up reply actions  

No Bourne
Carlos Quentin, maybe?

I hear that Phillie's GM had to ask Albert Pujols for permission to make the deal, since Albie literally owns Lidge.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Nov 8, 2007 4:07 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This
is an all time classic post.  Bravo, Tyler.  
The 2007 offseason: Butter? Or Steel?

by the red baron on Nov 8, 2007 6:41 AM EST up reply actions  

We have a winner!
Pure genius.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Nov 8, 2007 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

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