A-Rod in the postseason

by gibbyfan on Nov 7, 2007 8:23 PM EST Comment 15 comments

I was talking to some guys, and we came up with a intresting idea as to why A-Rod can't hit in the postseason, and just killes people in the regular season. When you get to the postseason you only use your top three maybe four pitchers. This is what we came up with. Maybe A-Rod hits 4th and 5th starters better then any player in the major right now, but can't hit the top guys. The best way to show this would be to show A-Rods numbers against a average pitcher vs. Say Pujols numbers against an average pitcher. Then show A-Rods numbers against a top flight pitcher vs. Pujols number against a top flight pitcher. I'm not good at this kind of number cruching, and I was wondering if someone on here had the time to do this.

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Something I found...

vs. "POWER" pitchers ARod's career line is:

.276/.378/.510;

whereas vs. "FINESSE" pitchers ARod's career line is:

.333/.404/.624

Maybe he sees more power pitchers in the playoffs because they are one of the top 3.

Pujols' numbers vs. the same are:

.296/.410/.574
and
.350/.427/.648

Those are a lot closer than ARod's #s.

stlfan

by stlfan on Nov 7, 2007 8:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That was good question to post

I know from just a spectator's point of view, Pujols hits good pitching as well as anybody I ever saw and I go back to Musial. If you take the shot he hit off Brad Lidge on 05 playoffs and break it up into singles his average should go up a point or two.

by ridgesee on Nov 7, 2007 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ARod's

career OPS in the postseason -- .844

The great Derek Jeter, who is so clutch and one of the greatest postseason players in the history of postseasons -- .846

ARod surely doesn't have the best postseason #s in the history of the game but this myth about him being feckless in the postseason is just that -- a myth. Can we finally dispel that mistaken notion?

Hitters face better pitching in the postseason. It's colder, which affects hitting. ARod's numbers should be lower in the postseason (as should everyone else's) than in the regular season -- and they are. But he's been as good a hitter in the postseason as the immortal Derek Jeter has.

by chuckb on Nov 7, 2007 8:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

I'd not seen those numbers yet. Looking at his hits + those numbers, it kind of looks like the indians just took the bat out of his hands. Did he walk more?

Also come on there has to be something here, Pujols is the only guy in the majors that puts up the same kind of numbers as A-Rod in the regualer season, and Alex isn't even close to him in post season numbers.

Save the Kipper don't make him go back out there.

by gibbyfan on Nov 8, 2007 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention

Reggie Jackson went into a huge slump and got BENCHED in the playoffs against the Royals, only to come back and hit a HR to win the pivotal game of the ALCS and then belt three in one game in the World Series. So Mr. October was benched because of his bat in the ALCS, basically. Slumps show up at all times of the year, and some players happen to hit them when they get to the postseason. It's just the nature of things in this game. Jeter always gets pass on things like this because he always says and does the right things and he played SS on a number of World Champions. In my mind he's a poor man's Dave Concepcion who happens to play in NY.

"The Cardinals have won a World Series in THEIR new stadium!" --my Uncle Jim to a heckling Cubs fan

by fourstick on Nov 8, 2007 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ARod

Has struggled in the playoffs, in my mind, b/c he tries to do too much against very good pitchers. Its not that he's unclutch or any stupid crap like that, considering the fact that he absolutely mashed in the playoffs as a member of the M's. I think he tries to hit a grand slam every swing, which combined with the better pitching does him in.

With all that said, we are also talking about a randomly selected 25 AB's or so of a 162 game, 600 AB season. I'm not about to get all up in arms screaming "he's a choker" or all that crap, b/c it ain't so. He's just as likely as any dude to flat out mash in the playoffs next time around, and he's proven himself capable before. He just hasn't been himself in the 50 ab's or whatever he's had in the 05, 06, and 07 playoffs. And this postseason he wasn't terrible. An .820 OPS facing Carmona and Sabathia isn't really anything to get mad about...especially when Captain Clutch went 3-17.

by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 8, 2007 1:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

A-Rod actually does suck in the Playoffs

Take accumulated stats for A-Rod and start sorting. A couple weeks back I looked at his batting stats just in critical losing games and posted this:

In his first season as a Yankee they lost the ALCS to their nemesis RedSox who went on to proove that the curse was finally broken. In the four loses to Boston in games 4-7, A-Rod contributed with just 2 hits in 17 AB's. In the nine losing games of the Division Series' of 2005-2007, he posted a collective 4 for 31, for a grand total of 6 for 48 in losing games of the deciding series in four seasons. Hardly the stuff of Yankee lore.

I won't go back to try and decide if the games the Yanks one that he built his stats on were against chump pitching, or that the 13 losses in four years sited above were all against power pitching. For me the record is very clear, when his playoff team really needed a big game to avoid defeat and elimination, A-Rod never delivered. Period.

That is why he knows he has to leave the Yanks.

Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Nov 8, 2007 10:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

And by the logic

"Albert Pujols in the first 13 games of April 2007 went for a grand total of 8 for 50. He didn't deliver in any of the first 13 April games. Period. Therefore he will never be successful in the first 13 games of April."

Doesn't that sound ridiculous?

(Just for fun: Pujols went 16 for 42 with 9 bombs in the first 13 games of 2006)

Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Nov 8, 2007 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You missed the logic. Period.

And there was no supposition to say what the future might be. What A-Rod did in four playoff years as a Yankee is in the books and won't change. Maybe he'll be incredible for the next team that ponies up to his demands, I don't care.

Fact is, the perception that many people have that his performance in the playoffs is less than stellar is actually well founded. In the games that knocked the Yanks out of the playoffs four years in a row, he was a non contributor.

If you prefer to average his excellent performance in the games that lead them to the precipice of defeat, that's fine, many do it, and it is what it is.

I rather thought that breaking out the performance in the final games that mattered, that explains in a way the foundation of the bad impression many people share, was informative and accurate, and that this forum is a place for sharing that. period.

Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Nov 8, 2007 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But he was spectacular in the playoffs as a M

did something magical about pinstripes destroy A-Rod's playoff mojo?

I only like this meme because it damages A-Rod's market value, however unfairly.

by Valatan on Nov 8, 2007 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Go for it

I just pointed out Pujols sucked in April. He therefore would be completely deserving the reputation that he sucks in April using the methods you used.

A-Rods reputation for not doing well in the past few years in the post-season IS true. Does it matter? No. It's a masturbatory exercise to even point it out. Not doing well in 13 flippin games is wholly irrelevant to any discussion on how good or bad he is in any situation.

If someone was seriously saying that Pujols is terrible in April based on those 13 games, would you think it's accurate, well founded and/or just???

Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Nov 8, 2007 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just for the record...

in games 1-3 of that series, which you omit, he was 6/14 with a HBP, BB, 2 2B and an HR (1.286 OPS). Overall in that series he had an .894 OPS, and that was after a .421/.476/.737 division series performance...

by SleepyCA on Nov 8, 2007 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Which was exactly the point intended

A-Rod carried the Yanks on his back, just like this entire season, to get them to the critical games necessary to close out a series, and move to the next level. When it came to those games, the ones Yankee fans in particular have to remember in humiliation, A-Rod did not deliver. Four years in a row.

You can average all of his playoff results to show what you want, claim sample size improvement, what have you. But what matters in more peoples' memories are the performances in the deciding games.

And that is why Jackson is still Mr. October for millions, because even if he didn't help to get the Yanks through the ALCS, he was the difference in the deciding games, and brought the championship home. For many, they will never forget it, and all previous sins are forgotten.

I for one thought A-Rod might break through this year. His season was astonishing. But those last three losses of the year, he was shut down like the rest of the team, and they could go home and get on with the business of running Torre out of the dug out.

Still, I think NY fans would have been happy to have A-Rod back, to keep trying (and it still might happen). But if he leaves the Yanks after these four years, his record of failure in the deciding games of the playoffs will not be forgotten by the fans he leaves behind.

Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Nov 8, 2007 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Non-Biased

I just went in and looked to find some numbers...here is what I found.

In playoff clinching games the last 4 years, ARod is:
8-39 (.205 avg)
5 R
3 RBI
7 BB + 2 HBP (.354 OBP)
2 doubles
2 HR (.410 SLG)
9 Ks

Meanwhile, his team (without ARod's stats) is:
82-333 (.246 avg)
35 R
34 RBI
36 BB + 1 HBP (.321 OBP) - 1 sac fly (to make #s add up)
13 doubles
7 HR (.348 SLG)
88 Ks

ARod's line - .205/.354/.410
NYY - ARod - .246/.321/.348

Interesting...

by stlfan on Nov 9, 2007 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Capt. Hero

As a profound Jeter-hater, I understand the above arguments. How does Captain Overrated get a pass while we shove AROD under the bus?

AROD didn't perform in the closeout games...no shit, neither did any other Yankee, so that is why they lost.

The question that gets asked by Jeter-haters is...why is AROD to blame? Jeter has sucked in the playoffs for much of the past several years, but he gets a pass because of some good games early in his career. Did he learn to choke? I don't know, but I blame Jeter for the Yanks postseason problems the past few years. The Captain should have stepped up. He is the leader. He gets paid $20,000,000 per year to be 1/2 the player AROD is during the regular season so that he can be the postseason hero. His ego made AROD go to 3rd base while he put up some of the worst fielding stats in the league year after year at short. (Funny, he still received gold gloves when it would be far easier to make a case for him as the worst defensive shortstop in the AL than the best.) AROD should have been the shortstop all along. OK rant complete.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Nov 8, 2007 7:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs