What about Coco Crisp?

by cardzfan24 on Nov 6, 2007 12:53 PM EST

Crisp will almost certainly be traded this offseason after Jacoby Ellsbury emerged for the Red Sox during their postseason run. Based on his performance in Boston, it will most likely be a salary dump on the part of the Red Sox and he could be had cheaply.

He was a disappointment in Boston to be sure, posting OPS+ of 77 and 83 the last two years there, but in his previous two seasons in Cleveland he posted OPS+ numbers of 110 (2004) and 117 (2005) while hitting 15 plus HRs both years, getting on base at an average clip (.345ish) and having some serious speed in the OF tracking down fly balls.

I think he could be a decent fit here, and could allow us to trade one of our young OF for a premium arm. Duncan's use in that area has been noted by many in this community.

He could be a leadoff hitter if he can mature a bit more. At the very least he will improve our overall OF depth and make its defense better, he could also be very useful as a leadoff hitter if he could get his OBP in the .360 range (not unfeasible) and he could be had for little, I am sure Reyes would get the job done, perhaps even less would do it.

This is by no means a fix all move, but it gives us a younger type OF with some upside and athleticism. Just a thought.

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Nah, Pass

Based on the various threads and comments posted on VEB over the past month, it's pretty clear to me that we should not be spending free agent money on outfielders. The CF job should belong to Rasmus in 2008 or 2009. If it's '09, Edmonds can hold it down.

Also, I do think a .360 OBP is unlikely to come from a guy who's career high is .345 (OPS .810 also career high) in 2005. '06: .317 (!). '07: .330.

With the cheaper options of Rasmus, Ankiel, Duncan, and Ryan Ludwick, I think it's a fool's errand to spend anything on Coco Crisp.

by lightbulb on Nov 6, 2007 1:49 PM EST reply actions

Agreed

If a team is looking for a FA outfielder who can play LF & CF then I think he is a good value.

I think that he will be a better signing than Aaron Rowand. Rowand has hit in two hitters parks so I would be very wary of spending too much on that guy. Now Torri Hunter seems like a safe bet but I wonder about his knees as he has played his home games on turf his whole career. I think if Andrew Jones is in shape he is pretty good as well.

But I think for the Right team who needs a CF Crisp can be a very good signing.

However STL is in no need of OF players at this point.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 6, 2007 2:02 PM EST up reply actions

I pass as well

Better money can be spent shoring up the SS position and putting some cash back into the starting rotation. Crisp doesn't bring anything to the table that we don't already have or are going to have for a lot less $$$ (Rasmus). He's a good player on paper, but he's not great defensively and isn't a great basestealer, two things that would actually bring value to the Cardinal ballclub.

"The Cardinals have won a World Series in THEIR new stadium!" --my Uncle Jim to a heckling Cubs fan

by fourstick on Nov 6, 2007 2:17 PM EST reply actions

I would argue

we DO need OFs. Ankiel is far from a lock as a solid contributer next year. Edmonds will spend time on the DL, gar-on-teed.

We need depth at OF. I am not sure about this, but Crisp isn't a FA, I don't think. He is a trade candidate, and if he could be had for cheap, its worth the investment. I believe his contract is out after next year, so he won't block Rasmus either.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Nov 6, 2007 2:23 PM EST reply actions

And its not like he'e expensive

Averaging out to 5 million per year the next two years with an 8 million option on 2010 (with a 500,000 buyout.)

Edmonds retires after '08, and Crisp comes off the books the year after. Rasmus is unimpeded.

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Nov 6, 2007 2:27 PM EST up reply actions

Counter--argument

They have Ludwick, Edmonds, Schumaker, Encarnacion, Duncan, and Ankiel all under contract for next year. Obviously Juan may be done -- but we don't know that yet. That leaves 5 plus the possibility of Mather and/or Rasmus making the leap sometime in the next 12 to 18 months. That's 7 possible MLB ready outfielders on the 40 man roster. It's the one single area where St. Louis has legitamate depth in the MLB and in the farm system. It's one of the reasons that a Duncan trade has been explored so thoroughly here at VEB, because he is an expendable player who is a commodity because he's under team control for a few more years and comes relatively cheap.

So they should make a trade for Crisp despite all of this? If you look at his season with the Red Sox his numbers, in a much better lineup (OPS+ of 77 in '06 & 83 in '07), aren't that much better the last two years than what Ludwick (OPS+ = 110) put up in St. Louis this season. Why should they give up prospects, however talented, to acquire a guy who makes 4X as much as Ludwick and puts up nearly the same numbers? Crisp would add some speed to the lineup, but he's not a true leadoff hitter and he also doesn't have the right handed pop that the Cardinals need. They would also be paying a centerfield platoon of Jimmy and Coco (sounds like a bad 1970's pop duo) $14 million dollars next year! They'd be better off using that $5 million to sign a SS that improves the defense (Izturis, Vizquel).

Much has been said at VEB about how bad a trade for Jack Wilson would be, but at least that would improve a needed position. A Crisp trade simply stockpiles assets that the Cards don't need.

"The Cardinals have won a World Series in THEIR new stadium!" --my Uncle Jim to a heckling Cubs fan

by fourstick on Nov 6, 2007 3:03 PM EST up reply actions

Well Said - Next?

Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Nov 6, 2007 5:00 PM EST up reply actions

Right on the money, fourstick

I'm sure the powers to be in the Cards orginization are putting their minds on where the real problems lie and that is pitching and shortstop. Until those problems are solved the Cards are not going to make any serious run even in the NL central. I like Eckstien and he can be of good value to some other team as a part time player but not the Cardinals with the salary he will command. He faded badly last year on defense, especially in the last half. This team has to many weaknesses to have any success without a good range strong throwing shortstop.

by ridgesee on Nov 6, 2007 5:49 PM EST up reply actions

Pass.

He has been in the bigs for (basically) 5 seasons and posted well below average for 3 of them, the past two years have both been sub-par.

We already have huge question marks in Edmonds and Ankiel. I can't figure out why you'd want another.

Besides, we just took a pass on a $1M option for So who put up similar numbers to Coco.

Coco .268/.330/.382 So .290/.350/.368

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Nov 6, 2007 3:26 PM EST reply actions

We do not need anymore outfielders.

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Nov 6, 2007 3:33 PM EST reply actions

Let me repeat that.

We do not need anymore outfielders

by ridgesee on Nov 6, 2007 5:52 PM EST up reply actions

And if we gonna get another outfileder...

lets make it one worth actually paying money to!

by onebigdummy on Nov 7, 2007 4:07 PM EST up reply actions

I'm not much on...

the idea of bringing in Coco Crisp.

by mynameistyler on Nov 6, 2007 4:02 PM EST reply actions

Good stuff guys

That makes sense to me. It seems to me that the situation doesn't just suggest trading an OF for pitching or SS help, it demands it. What are the chances of the new front office moving this roster and pursuing talent in any of those areas? High? Low? No way in hell its happening?

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Nov 6, 2007 7:03 PM EST reply actions

Crisp could be a good alternative

To one of the stud CFs on the market. His offense in 2006 was subpar due to a hand injury, but I'm not sure that was the reason for the poor 2007 season. He is excellent defensively, and does have potential to improve offensively. That said, I don't think the Cards need another OFer, nor another question mark. I do think he could be a good, relatively cheap with potential upside, pickup for those teams that lose out on the Jones/Hunter/Rowand sweepstakes.

by Yellow Dog on Nov 7, 2007 10:14 AM EST reply actions