The Cards' Pedroia
I think by now we're all familiar with what a great season Dustin Pedroia had this year. He'll likely be named the AL Rookie of the Year soon because of his .317/.380/.442 season. He also received quite a bit of publicity for some big hits in Boston's playoff run. Despite a rocky start he finished quite well this postseason (.283/.348/.483). He hits at the top of the Red Sox order, plays a pretty good 2B, and earns the major league minimum salary ($380,000; considerably less than the $2 million earned by his BACKUP, Alex Cora).
Today I'm going to make the case that Jarrett Hoffpauir, the Cardinals 2B prospect, is in the same mold as Dustin Pedroia. I want to begin, however, by saying that I do not expect Hoffpauir to ever be the NL Rookie of the Year or an All-Star. I'm not saying that he'll be as good as Pedroia; in fact, I'll argue that Pedroia played a little bit over his head this year for the Sox.
That said, many people have Hoffpauir pegged as a utility player, not a regular 2B, particularly for a contending ballclub. Well, there's a lot to like in Hoffpauir and it's my opinion that he can be a starting 2B for the Cards, if not in '08, then certainly in '09 (assuming the Cards could figure out some way to deal w/ Kennedy).
I got the idea for this quest from an article posted at Baseball Prospectus by Marc Normandin. The profile of Pedroia explained Pedroia's background and why he was successful. Hoffpauir displays many of the same characteristics that Normandin lauds in this article and helped to convince me that Hoffpauir can be much more than a cheaper Aaron Miles.
This week AZ and Erik have been counting down their top 25 prospects in the Cards' system. Of Hoffpauir, AZ said
Erik wrote
So why all the attention? Why do we have any reason to expect he's more than Aaron Miles?
Normandin,too, lauds Pedroia for his low K rate and the fact that he walks more than he strikes out. He called him "a powerful doubles hitter with excellent plate discipline and control of the zone." In looking at the two players, there are a lot of similarities --certainly many more than just their size (5'9", 165 lbs for Hoffpauir; 5'9", 180 lbs for Pedroia). It's true that Pedroia moved through the system much more quickly than Hoffpauir. Part of that is b/c Hoffpauir seems to struggle initially as he advances, before settling in and being successful, and part of that seems to me to be organizational philosophy - one that, I believe, is changing somewhat with the Cards. Nevertheless, Hoffpauir is now about 1 ½ to 2 years behind Pedroia, despite both being drafted and beginning pro ball in 2004. (Pedroia was 20; Hoffpauir 21).
Thanks to the fact that baseball reference has now added a section on the minors, I was able to compare Pedroia's and Hoffpauir's numbers coming up through the minors. The key similarities are included below.
| Year | Player | Age | Level | OBP | OPS | XBH% | 2B+3B | BB% | K% | BB/K |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2004 | Pedroia | 20 | A | .474 | 1.034 | 30 | 5 | 10.5 | 5.3 | 1.98 |
| 2004 | Hoffpauir | 21 | A | .363 | .792 | 42 | 21 | 10.9 | 7.9 | 1.38 |
| 2005 | Hoffpauir | 22 | A | .376 | .795 | 27 | 17 | 8.2 | 5.5 | 1.49 |
| 2004 | Pedroia | 20 | A+ | .417 | .940 | 36 | 11 | 10.2 | 3.1 | 3.29 |
| 2005 | Hoffpauir | 22 | A+ | .346 | .656 | 19 | 11 | 12.3 | 10.0 | 1.23 |
| 2005 | Pedroia | 21 | AA | .409 | .917 | 35 | 21 | 11.4 | 8.8 | 1.30 |
| 2006 | Hoffpauir | 23 | AA | .344 | .699 | 28 | 20 | 11.9 | 9.0 | 1.32 |
| 2007 | Hoffpauir | 24 | AA | .420 | .847 | 33 | 16 | 11.2 | 7.8 | 1.44 |
| 2005 | Pedroia | 21 | AAA | .356 | .738 | 29 | 10 | 10.0 | 7.1 | 1.41 |
| 2006 | Pedroia | 22 | AAA | .384 | .807 | 29 | 32 | 9.9 | 5.6 | 1.77 |
| 2007 | Hoffpauir | 24 | AAA | .394 | .810 | 25 | 10 | 13.1 | 9.5 | 1.38 |
OK, first some of the differences - yes, as I said, Hoffpauir was older at every level than Pedroia was. Yes, in most cases his slugging % was lower than Pedroia's. (I'm not sure some of that can't be chalked up to the pitching-friendly Florida State League, however.) But Marc Normandin said that Pedroia's success was attributable to his low K rate, the fact that he walks more than he strikes out, and the fact that he is more than just a singles hitter.
You should notice that, at almost every level, Hoffpauir's walk rate is higher than Pedroia's. Early on, his K rate was as well but they were roughly the same at AA and, considering that Hoffpauir seems to struggle early on with a new level before adjusting, I suspect that, if he spends some time at AAA this season, they will even out at AAA as well. Their extra-base hit rates are almost identical, as well. It's true that Hoffpauir's is slightly lower, but it's clear that Hoffpauir is more than just a singles hitter as it has been 25% or higher every year but 1 in pro ball.
Finally, notice the BB/K. Hoffpauir's compares favorably to Pedroia's and he has walked more than struck out every year in pro ball. Incidentally, Kennedy's minor-league BB/K was .54 and Miles' was .77. So, according to Normandin, Hoffpauir seems to possess the same characteristics that have made Pedroia a successful hitter at the major-league level.
ZIPS projects Hoffpauir to have a .246/.318/.332 line this year. Not great, to be sure, but Pedroia struggled out of the gate when initially brought up to the majors as well (.191/.258/.303 in 89 AB's in 2006). It's a small sample size, to be sure, but Pedroia figured it out. Hoffpauir will likely struggle early on but he'll figure it out also. BTW, ZIPS projects Kennedy (.251/.310/.332) and Miles (.268/.311/.334) to be about the same or worse than Hoffpauir anyway. It's not like the Cards have several better options.
The other person that Hoffpauir reminds me of somewhat is Placido Polanco. Like Hoffpauir, most didn't think Polanco would be more than a utility player and that was his primary role until almost forced into the lineup every day. Once he was traded to the Phillies for Scott Rolen, he became a starter by default and managed to keep hitting so much that no one could keep him out of the lineup. Like Hoffpauir, Polanco is small and doesn't strike out often. However, he doesn't walk often either and only 3 times in his professional career (minors and majors) did he have a full-season walk total that eclipsed his strikeouts. Polanco's minor league XBH% was 19% and in the majors it has been 23%. There's no reason to think that Hoffpauir doesn't have the potential to become the same type of hitter that Polanco is.
I should add here that Pedroia played above his projections in '07 and probably will come back to earth slightly in '08. He slugged .442 this year and hadn't done that since AA. Additionally, he was sensational at home (.351/.410/.502), in friendly Fenway, whose Green Monster probably helped contribute to his 39 doubles. He was pretty ordinary away from Fenway and Hoffpauir wouldn't have such a friendly home park. He would, however face weaker pitchers in the NL and if Hoffpauir was able to even post the same OPS that Pedroia posted on the road (.729), it would be a 62 point improvement over the feckless OPS posted by Cardinals' 2nd basemen in '07 (.667).
Kennedy will get and should get every chance to win the 2B job in the spring. After all, the Cards are on the hook for his contract for the next 2 years at $3.5 M in '08 and $4 M in '09. They can't unload that contract after his craptastic '07. Miles, on the other hand, should go away. There's no need to pay him $1 M or more to be worse than Hoffpauir when Hoff will earn the minimum. While Hoffpauir may never be Rookie of the Year, we have every reason to believe that he could become an average major-league 2B, at least until he reaches his 2nd year of arbitration - when his salary may compel the Cards to look for a better option. In the meantime, however, he offers an inexpensive 2B whose upside should be seen as similar to Pedroia's or Polanco's. But we'll never know if we don't stick him in there.
Oh, one more thing -- thanks for the compliments last week. Take an extra hour tonight to enjoy VEB!
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63 comments
Comments
Another great post.
I am all in favor of the youth movement. Let's see what some of these kids got in '08!
by Zubin on Nov 4, 2007 1:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great Post, But
What I don't understand is why so many are ready to cut loose Aaron Miles. You have to have a plan B, and from what I can see, it isn't in Memphis. Not saying that Miles should be starting, but he is what he is - an adequate infield utility player who can play 3 infield positions when someone goes down with injury. You need players like that.
I agree with argument that you don't want old veterans blocking the kids from playing. At SS for example, now that Edgar is off the market, Brendan Ryan seems our best alternative. That could change later when players are non-tendered, etc., but for now I would like to see Ryan play.
But later on, if he doesn't want to play the game right and keeps blowing off take signs, or the pitchers figure him out and he can't get his BA over .220, you are going to need someone like Miles on the bench.
by Anteus on Nov 4, 2007 7:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I thought
And Miles -- career OBP of .323, career OPS of .680, horrible defense, restricted to 2B b/c of his defense, his BA is as hollow as it gets. Oh yeah, he earned $1M last year and is arbitration-eligible again this year. His salary will rise.
If Ryan's not the SS, Ryan should take Miles' place. If Ryan is the SS, we need to find someone else who can be better than Miless, play more than 1 position, for cheaper. It won't be that hard.
by chuckb on Nov 4, 2007 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's an honor!
(just kidding!)
by RedbirdRay on Nov 4, 2007 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Got Me
by Anteus on Nov 4, 2007 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hoff's projections
Wow. A .790 OPS out of Hoffpauir would be fantastic IMO given what we have been exposed to at 2B over the past few years.
by Hungry Jack on Nov 4, 2007 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just can't figure it out???
He shouldn't be in the major leagues, period. He is woefully "inadequate" in every facet of the game.
by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 4, 2007 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great post.
On another note, can anyone confirm that the player to be named in the Pineiro deal was OF Sean
Danielson? I read that in some baseball notes in a Philly paper, but haven't seen it elsewhere. Did I just miss this?
by vinniefromjersey on Nov 4, 2007 8:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes. It was.
by the red baron on Nov 4, 2007 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great Post HC
Throughout his years he has turned DP's at a much greater rate than Pedroia. Don't know to what to assign that.
Unfortunately he's only had a handful of games at SS, so his versatility as a sub infielder is questionable. With Speez unable to play SS, I can't see tlr letting both Eck and Miles walk. Not being a switch hitter is another concession that won't help him earn a spot.
Hoffpauir's best shot is to have a great ST, and play well in Memphis while Kennedy shows a return to form and achieves trade value by the deadline.
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 4, 2007 8:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Miles...
by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 4, 2007 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there aren't too many scouting reports
by erik on Nov 4, 2007 9:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff
I also expect Adam Kennedy to be much better than he was in '07. Miles is a worth his $1 million in my opinion.
by qwikimport on Nov 4, 2007 9:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Anteus
by ridgesee on Nov 4, 2007 9:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
On the Other Hand...
I agree that while the revolving door era at 2B may have been frustrating to some, with 1B SS & 3B locked, it was a good place to play the infield bench. And the short tenures of Wommack and Grudz were great. Miles surprised while Spivey crashed and burned. They should have re-upped Grudz and didn't, then turned around and locked Kennedy for 3 yrs and looked silly. So now what?
A. If Eck walks (my choice) and Ryan gets his shot, I can't see tlr going into ST without Miles aboard. So Hoffpauir goes to Memphis.
B. If Eck gets signed and Ryan plays utility-sub, "Maybe" Hoffpauir gets the chance to beat Miles out for the back up roll and platoons with Kennedy.
C. Or maybe Miles finds a chance to earn a starting spot on somebody else' roster and doesn't even risk loosing his bench role to a rookie.
I can't even hazard the odds these scenarios. Anybody?
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 4, 2007 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you on Miles
Still, you have to admit he isn't an ideal backup. He defense is subpar and despite the decent average, his hitting (OPS) is below average. Most clubs have good feilding no-hit middle infeilders as backups. On the other hand, Miles is a poor-feilding hit-a-little guy. Given that he will probably make $1.5M over the minimum, teh Cardinals would be best served to find someone else to do the job.
by Zubin on Nov 4, 2007 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Things will get
Agreed, the Cardinals need to get "younger"; however, I think Kennedy will "aggress to the mean" (he'll hit better in 2008) and is most likely the every-day 2B. AK was once a shortstop, but I doubt the Birds would move him over there.
Agreed, if you've got Eckstein, you really no longer need Miles... but if'n ya don't have Eck, Miles is a good "extra" guy to have.
Solid analysis, HC! Lessee wha' hoppens from here on out...
by The Ol Goaler on Nov 4, 2007 9:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
AK at SS was even worse than Miles
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 4, 2007 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SS
Yeah, this is my deal as well with making Hoffpauir the utility middle IF. I have no problem with keeping Hoffpauir over Miles as Miles can't really play SS either but TLR stubbornly puts him there on occasion nonetheless. Then you have the switch hitting factor ... TLR wants his utility IFers to be switch hitters (ala Spiezio and Miles). I'd love to get Hoffpauir into the mix at 2B but, given he can only play 2B and TLR's rigid coaching tendencies, I just don't see it happening initially. I would bet Hoffpauir starts the season at Memphis but would hope they call him up if Kennedy or Miles go on the DL (would not be surprised if Kennedy gets injured again). One thing that is attractive about Hofpauir is his potential to develop into a cheap leadoff hitter, something this team needs.
by jjray on Nov 4, 2007 10:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good Post
As lboros stated earlier, the chances of the Birds competing this year are slim. Why not try some in-house solutions?
SD
by sdangler on Nov 4, 2007 10:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Size?
by BigJawnMize on Nov 4, 2007 11:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't compare height and weight like that...
by Zubin on Nov 4, 2007 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
May I jump in
He struggles early. He just will not get enough AB's as a back up to get him going and get his confidence up. The reason Pedroia did so well was that Francona told him to not worry about production because he is playing everyday no matter what. See Hoffapuir is not going to do very well as a spot starter and it is obvious based on his slow starts. At this point if you want to bring Hoffpauir up he needs to be the starter and you need to decide if you want Kennedy or Miles as a back up.
The other thing I see a lot is people saying we must keep Kennedy due to the fact we owe him money. At this point that really means nothing as basbeall contract are sunk costs meaning once you make the deal you can't not pay the guy. Kennedy is going to be paid by STL even if he is on another team. No one will pick up his full contract. It is not a big deal either, as you have to move dead weight at times. If Hoffpauir is good then Kennedy is just blocking his development. The Diamondbacks did this with Russ Ortiz. They cut him despite owing him $$ because he was blocking other pitchers who could pitch just as well as him.
I think if Hoffpauir is to make the squad it should be as a starter, as I do not see him excelling as a back up. Also I would rather Keep Miles as a back up as he is more flexible than Kennedy.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 4, 2007 11:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
But Kennedy's splits are pathetic
Likewise Kennedy will get more AB's too see if he can reestablish himself, either for the Cards or as a trade chip.
You have to believe that tlr will want Miles around if eck is gone and Ryan is starting at SS (and unavailable to sub 2B). I have to believe that the chance that both Eck and Miles are not there in 08 is also next to zero.
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 4, 2007 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
I am for Ryan, Kennedy, Miles, and Hoffpauir as our MI next season. The scary thing is we don't have a guy who you want to play SS for more than 20 games if Ryan gets hurt or just flat out stinks. It is hard to imagine but our MI could be worse without Eck.
But I am fine with waiting until 09 to get a real SS.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 4, 2007 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Real SS in 09?
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 4, 2007 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There aren't enough
BTW, color me skeptical but I'd say it's no better than 50/50 that Ryan is the starting SS. If he's not, he becomes the backup MI, thus rendering Miles utterly useless.
by chuckb on Nov 4, 2007 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So if you have Eck (or other SS Starter)
Maybe Ryan and Hoff can split apartments. Is there a limit to how many trips they can make between Memphis and STL? It surely isn't practical.
Maybe Memphis will have a good season to confirm the rising talent.
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 4, 2007 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You wouldn't, of course
The point of the post wasn't exactly "Start Hoffpauir at 2B on day 1" as much as it was "We have a real keeper here in Hoffpauir." I think he's legit -- not as a backup, but as a starter and I think that most people see him as being only a backup -- like Miles. IMO, they're simply wrong.
It wouldn't surprise me if he was better than Kennedy in the spring and certainly by the All-Star break. We'd have to figure out what to do w/ Kennedy b/c I haven't got the faintest idea. But Hoffpauir will be better than Kennedy -- and soon.
by chuckb on Nov 4, 2007 2:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
this was meant to reply to
by chuckb on Nov 4, 2007 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on Hoffpauir, but you did say
Playing Ryan-Hoffpauir-Kennedy could be fun. I fear MoRussa will have other ideas.
Thanks again HC for a great post.
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 4, 2007 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chances are zero
The Cards have made it clear that they don't see Ryan as an everyday shortstop, so he figures as the backup middle-infielder.
It looks like the Cards plan to bring someone new in to play at short, since the only in-house options are Barden (not likely) and Miles (no chance). I like the idea of Ben Zobrist. The only scenario I see where Miles gets tendered a contract is if Ryan is involved in a trade for Zobrist, which would make some sense for Tampa.
by liam on Nov 4, 2007 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Zobrist also
by chuckb on Nov 4, 2007 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 4, 2007 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If the Cardinals are convinced
On top of that, Zobrist is an offensively minded shortstop whose just average defensively. If the Cardinals can't secure top notch pitching, the other way to improve at run prevention is to improve the defense.
by azruavatar on Nov 4, 2007 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A guy whose highest MLB OBP is .260?
by sdrone on Nov 5, 2007 1:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
And some ZiPS projections:
Zobrist .252 .341 .362
Eckstein .289 .348 .356
Ryan .265 .315 .351
Miles .268 .311 .334
Barden .265 .310 .430
Azruavatar's comment that he's reputedly only average defensively is news to me—I've heard him described as "big and rangy" (in BP 2006) and an excellent fielder.
by liam on Nov 5, 2007 1:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We can cut Kennedy if we have better options
But what this post further convinces me of is that we should be in the market for a second basemen at least as much as a shortstop. Like everything else, we'll probably have to wait until '09 for any kind of impact player.
But if we've got $10-$15 mil to fill out the '08 roster while we wait for contracts to expire, doesn't some of it HAVE TO go to the middle infield? Can we really field a roster of pick-3 from Kennedy, Miles, Ryan & Hoffpauir? I like the young guys and would love to see them get a shot, but there's not a single guy there I can point to and say "this is an everyday major league ballplayer."
by bgodar on Nov 4, 2007 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If this post convinces you
by chuckb on Nov 4, 2007 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you've made a great case...
But unfortunately, I think the odds are pretty good that either Hoff or Ryan won't develop enough to remain viable options. Maybe Kennedy will rebound, but he and Miles were well below not just league average, but replacement level this season.
I don't feel like we can be confident that a single one of these guys WILL BE a major league quality middle infielder in '08. I'm not suggesting we try to sign an impact player at either position - I think that's been documented as not feasible in '08 - but we've got to burn a little cash to fill out the roster. Is there any position that needs filling out more than this one?
by bgodar on Nov 7, 2007 9:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if i were gm (hey it's sunday afternoon!)
12 pitchers (piniero in, wells out; the rest compete, including reyes)
8 regulars (incl: duncan, ank for enc, eck, and ak)
1 bu catcher (recall marrero so get outfield too?)
4 reserves
really need balance for the 4 remaining spots, so among these folks
spiezio (switch, if or of), so done deal (literally)
miles (switch, 2b, ss?)
ludwick (all of)
ryan (ss, 2b, 3b)
hoff (2b)
mather (of)
i'd keep the first 4 and put hoff at AAA and ask him to play a little ss. mather ticketed for AAA to start.
why: we are basically poor in terms of discretionary income, so will need to take some chances. rather than take chances on players outside the system (likely to be retreads), id suggest basing decisions on the following:
- sign eck, if possible for something close to current salary, 2 years max (if not let him go).
- hope eck and/or ak play themselves into a state of increased value early on. if so, trade one or both of them. better than signing uribe!
- make sure hoff plays everyday and builds comfort and versatility.
- all other AAs who moved to AAA late in the year start at AAA.
- i would not trade any prospects right now other then reyes, and then only if we get serious quality. if not, we risk him coming around (keep showing him tape of of game 1, 06 WS!).
- i'd trade most any regular (except molina and pujols) for proper value (young potential) as things progress from ST on.
- be hesitant to sign FAs and lose any draft picks.
by sportsman on Nov 4, 2007 2:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wow, you call bringing back Eck and Miles
Taking chances will be playing Ryan-Hoff-Kennedy, and every indication is that we'd be better for it.
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 4, 2007 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of things
I see no reason to keep Miles AT ALL. The guy is getting paid 1mill+ to be reserve IF who plays a quasi-passable 2nd, a dreadful SS, and sort of stands over at 3rd if you need someone over there once and awhile. He has one skill: he can slap a few singles here and there. Worst case scenario is that Hoffpauir takes that role, hits for a lower average, does a better job picking up walks, hits a few more doubles, and does an equally poor job standing around at 3 infield positions...all for 600,000 dollars less.
We're stuck w/ Kennedy. He should be given priority in ST. If he hits the way he has most of his career, he's an acceptable fellow to have at 2nd. If he tanks again, then you have Hoff or Ryan, or even Barden or Spiezio to plug in over there in an absolute emergency.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 4, 2007 4:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hoff vs. Pedroia
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 4, 2007 4:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Do you mean defensively?
Defensively, his career (minor-league, of course) range factor is 4.92, which would be about middle of the pack in MLB. Other minor-league defensive #'s are hard to come by. Just for reference, Orlando Hudson's range factor last year was 4.91. He had 23 errors in AA, but a .983 FPct. last year -- again, in the middle of the pack for MLB 2B. He should be fine, not stellar. As for offensively, I think there's plenty of info in the main post.
by chuckb on Nov 4, 2007 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, defense
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 4, 2007 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
While Pedroia is only 4.49 RFg at 2B MLB
Bring him on.
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 4, 2007 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope so!
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 4, 2007 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gm and risk
rule V/minor l free agent, just another example of how hard it is to do better than the club letting the player go. who takes card free agents, much less succeeds with them? how have our evals gone with rule v/minor league free agents, aka, hector luna?
as you can tell, my issue is that to compete, we have to do BETTER in the front office and with the draft having a definite crapshoot component, only way near term is to get picks and move them along asap.
who knows, maybe things will get Mo better before ST, but I don't favor selling much, if any, of the farm to try. call me unrealistic, but i think the cards have a good chance to compete and win in the central without signing high health risk guys like schilling and instead applying those dollars to more scouting and development in asia and latin america. i know luhnow speaks spanish, but who speaks japanese or korean?
by sportsman on Nov 4, 2007 5:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Trade for Tejada
Tejada has been unhappy in Baltimore for a long time. The Orioles need to reduce payroll and get younger. We could get rid of Reyes and Thompson and maybe a prospect. We could even look at eating half of Rolen's salary to trade him and open some salary.
We need another bat who is a serious threat and could protect Pujols. We also need a SS. We could have Miles and Ryan play 2B (I've lost faith in Amanda Kenneday), and we'd actually have a pretty good looking hitting lineup. With Schilling in the starting rotation, Wain, Blooper, Piniero, and Mulder/(or servicable journeyman), we should be able to win the NL Central, and make a deep run in the playoffs with Schilling, Wain, and Carp as our front 3.
by BWDus on Nov 4, 2007 8:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
What's the point though?
We know Hoff won't be considered for the 2b job. He probably won't even make the team. If the Cardinals viewed him as a major league caliber player, they would have called him up last year.
And even if by some miracle he does, it will be another Brednan Ryan scenario, he'll end up in Tony's doghouse for things like "smiling too much".
It's another year of Kennedy at 2b. Just have to hope he bounces back. If Miles won't be the backup, I'm sure Cairo will be. (I guess Ryan will be the other backup infielder)
by DiscoJer on Nov 4, 2007 8:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry
And the point (if you had read it, you would know) is to debunk the idea that exists among many Cards' fans that Hoffpauir will never amount to anything more than a utility player. Maybe in your mind this is irrelevant, but his peripherals are all in line w/ those demonstrated by Pedroia when he was in the minors. He has tremendous plate discipline, a low K rate, and enough pop to hit for extra bases.
None of us know what will be done, but Hoffpauir should be given a chance to win the 2B job -- this spring and beyond. Presumably, the only insight you find valuable is one that beats up on the organization and simply regurgitates what has been done in the past, rather than making a cogent argument for what should be done in the future.
And, BTW, I guess in your world the Cards don't view Colby Rasmus as a major-leaguer, since they didn't call him up last year, huh? And Hoffpauir may not end up in Tony's doghouse, the way "Brendan" Ryan did at one point, as his minor-league numbers are indicative of more success at the major-league level.
by chuckb on Nov 4, 2007 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hoffpauir has shown the ability
by ridgesee on Nov 4, 2007 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very good
Thanks for breaking down the minor league carrers of both.
Obviously I think the thing Pedroia has over Hoffpauir is he has slightly more pop than than Hoffapuir due to his bigger size. He also doesn't have a guy named AK blocking him. Like I said earlier I don't believe Miles is blocking Hoffpauir despite all the Miles bashing. I am kind of sick of the Miles bashing, as it is not needed or well thought out. AK did not preform at all. And he is the one with the big contract that STL needs to view as a sunk cost and if he sucks he needs to be gone. Miles is a better back up option than Hoffpauir due to the fact he is slightly more versitile.
All in all I think our MI situation sucks. We just have no impact players in the middle. Look at this list and you will see no one who makes you truly excited. If Hoffapauir excites you it is just an idication of how bad or minor leagues are.
Barden (doesn't excite me)
Eck (like him but he needs to go)
Miles (ok, but we could do better)
Hoffpauir (who knows. only excites me b/c he is new)
Ryan (not too exciting. Not a high ceiling)
Kennedy (wow I hated his 3 year deal. not letting me down)
by ICbirdfan on Nov 4, 2007 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget who was rehired as manager?
by ridgesee on Nov 4, 2007 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well
Our Middle Infield is not stellar. I said it above, we have the most average middle infield in baseball. I mean all the guys are so similar it's not even funny. No one is a "can't" miss type guy with tons of upside.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 4, 2007 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HC, I like this post, I've been thinking about
by jillsinmo on Nov 4, 2007 9:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Uggla
Our MI used to be considered the teams strenght but that went down the drain when Edgar and Grudz left.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 4, 2007 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Glad you remembered that
Here's what Bryan Smith has to say:
Great catch, Jill!
by chuckb on Nov 4, 2007 9:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ohh.....I'm so excited! Something good
by jillsinmo on Nov 4, 2007 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They've done this before
Either way, I can't imagine any of those 3 guys being worse than Aaron Miles over the course of a season, and at least Ryan and Hoff have at least Eckstein-like upside on offense, with better defense. I also don't see the benefit of having Miles switch hit when you have a lefty at 2B (Kennedy), Spiezio, and a heavily lefty outfield.
by CardFaninVA on Nov 4, 2007 10:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Outstanding post, houstoncardinal
Who knows...maybe if we're lucky Mo can arrange it so that Tony has little choice except to have Hoffpauir play with the big club (offer arbitration to Eck, he goes elsewhere, don't re-sign Miles...).
by Mr Clean on Nov 5, 2007 4:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
good post, HC
Anyway 61 comments and no one mentioned the 21yo SS who slugged .472 at springfield this year, and who is currently tearing up the Venezuela Winter League, as an option for SS. If he coud learn to take a walk, we'd have to at least consider him for 2009+...
by SleepyCA on Nov 5, 2007 12:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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