Still short a shortstop
Well yesterday's thread was quite the discussion as far as our shortstop options. I'm going to tail off of yesterday's post; I've got another name to add to the mix but I want to set the table first before I bring out the eats.
Let's preface this whole discussion with a slight tangent. I have a confession: I would be the worst GM on the planet. Worse than Dave Littlefield. Worse than Chuck Lamar. Worse than Ed Wade. OK, maybe not worse than Ed Wade. Being a GM is about vastly more than evaluating talent. I'd like to think I'm pretty good at that. What I would fail at miserably would be managing a set of strong-willed, type-A personalities that permeate baseball on the field, in the dugouts and throughout front offices. I asked a teacher in high school to write me a letter of recommendation my senior year. In it he wrote, "[azruavatar] is very intelligent and motivated but also tends to be abrasive and does not work well with others." Since I'm both abrasive and vindictive, I was quite the problem student for the remainder of my time in that class. The point being that as a GM the ability to work with a sizable number of opinionated people is not something to be overlooked.
I have to wonder then what a GM would do when confronted with the situation that the Cardinals have now. I'm not convinced of Brendan Ryan's ability to play everyday. In fact, I think he's probably more of a nice utility infielder than an everyday player but he's the only current option with upside. Putting aside any speculation as to why, Tony La Russa exhibited a distinct proclivity last year for playing other players at short rather than Brendan Ryan (where's Luis Vizcaino when you need him???). David Eckstein has been testing the free agent waters and seems to be finding them a bit chillier than expected. Let's assume for a moment that the Cardinals offer arbitration and he accepts. Does anyone really wonder who the starting shortstop would be next year? If the Cardinals acquired Cezar Izturis or Jack Wilson, can anyone envision a likelihood where Brendan Ryan gets a sustained opportunity to disprove his doubters.
We'd all like the Cardinals to get younger I think. At the same time, we'd like to see them get better. Bringing in any of the aforementioned options at this point (Eckstein, Izturis or Wilson) doesn't represent a significant improvement and probably isn't the caliber shortstop you'd want on a contending team. Mozeliak is thus left in a position where he can bring in a stop-gap SS that will be adequate but eminently mediocre. That kind of a move would probably endear him to his manager but it has a cost beyond just the apparent monetary one. There's an opportunity cost to Ryan in some form. I'm sure that Mozeliak is aware of the likes and dislikes of his manager. His first responsibility is to provide the best roster he can but recognizing that contention probably isn't a likely outcome for the Cardinals this year, looking ahead to the future has to be balanced in as well. Finding a viable alternative to Brendan Ryan both next year and in the future would be ideal.
Premier shortstops don't hit the free agent market often and that's not an option I'd want to rely on if I were Mozeliak. The farm system lacks a slam-dunk option. Tyler Greene blew his knee out at the end of this past season and there were questions about whether he could stick defensively and if his tools would ever translate to an ability to hit for average. Jose Martinez doesn't profile as an everyday shortstop but more of a second baseman or utility player. Pete Kozma is -- at minimum -- 2 years away and more likely 3-4 before he'll be ready to contribute. Thus, it would appear as if the Cardinals need to swing a trade of sorts or deal with a several years and potentially longer of mediocrity.
The name Ben Zobrist has been bandied about in the past as a trade target and with the Ray's acquisition of Jason Bartlett the possibility snatching away Zobrist would seem to be even more possible. As I was reading the prolific and somewhat varied trade rumors yesterday, something caught my eye. About a month ago, I vaguely tossed out the idea of targeting Jed Lowrie from the Boston Red Sox system. He's rumored to be part of the offer the Red Sox have made for Johan Santana so it would appear that the Sox are at least open to moving him. He's currently blocked by Julio Lugo who suffered through a truly terrible 2007 campaign but has another 3 years on his contract. Oscar Tejada is a toolsy SS in the system behind Lowrie, although he's very far removed from being major league ready. Kevin Goldstein ranked Lowrie as the 4th best prospect in the Red Sox system. Here's the good things that Goldstein said about him:
Now that's not to say that Jed Lowrie is a guaranteed commodity. There are still questions about whether he'll stay long term at SS and whether he'll reach his ceiling of being a good everyday shortstop. Of course the Red Sox trading Lowrie as part of a Santana package and trading him to the Cardinals are two vastly different things but it's probably worth placing a call. Glancing over the rest of their top prospect list, I'd wonder if they wouldn't be interested in Bryan Anderson coupled with Tyler Johnson or a power reliever like Chris Perez or Jason Motte. Anderson would become the heir apparent to Varitek and Tyler Johnson would represent a low cost replacement for Javier Lopez (who probably isn't any better than Johnson in terms of talent).
Regardless of what the exact package would look like, trading for Zobrist or Lowrie presents La Russa with two options for SS. All three (Ryan, Zobrist and Lowrie) represent cheap short-term options that could be both an immediate upgrade and a long-term solution compared to their more elderly counterparts. Lowrie had some interesting numbers last year in AA and AAA where he posted a .909 and .850 OPS respectively. Baseball Prospectus translates those numbers to a .805 OPS and a .818 OPS in terms of equivalent major league numbers. Now, whether that's a Zobrist/Lowrie and Brendan Ryan is a pair of options that TLR would be willing to work with, I don't know. My cold, synthetic robot heart doesn't know how to compute factors like that. I'll leave those issues up to my betters (Mozeliak) with the hopes that they can find a palatable option for everyone that isn't just a return of the mediocre status quo.
********
Baseball America releases it's Top Ten Cardinal Prospects online today. The list is compiled by the esteemed Derrick Goold. He'll also be holding a chat over there at 11 a.m. central time. I'll have a post at Future Redbirds about it sometime in the morning but I'm sure that will be a significant topic of discussion today in these parts as well.
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119 comments
Comments
Same reaction here
This also most likely means that Eckstein will most likely be playing 2nd base next season, unless the Angels bring him back.
by liam on Nov 30, 2007 4:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
i thought Chris Perez
also if the Cards are not going to keep Anderson, wouldn't it be wise to trade him for a no doubt impact player? you said the guys you listed are not guaranteed to be the SS of the future the Cardinals need. so wouldn't it be foolish to waste a catcher like Anderson on a guy who won't be the player that the Cards need him to be?
by gdm426 on Nov 30, 2007 4:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Prefer this approach
I'm happy to hear Mo's line that he doesn't want to get hamstrung at the winter meetings waiting for eck to decide on arbitration. I don't want to waste another year with eck as a placeholder.
when BA comes out with all of their prospect lists, can someone please identify who on those lists might be left unprotected, and rule 5 available (if any)?
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 30, 2007 6:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Check out here
Look for posts by Erik on that list (since it includes all wordpress blogs)
Specifically here http://futureredbirds.com/2007/11/27/more-rule-5-thoughts/
Erik explores some options that people have left open, in this case the Royals mainly. Some grade A talent that for some reason wasn't protected, could be a good reason but it is one I don't know of.
by StLHugo on Nov 30, 2007 8:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Hugo
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6954
When Lubanski's name showed up on veb the other day, I hadn't noticed a link to this source.
Are there any unprotected SS that might be interesting in the rule 5 draft?
by Birds on the Bat on Nov 30, 2007 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
...SS for 08'
I think guns like Perez and Motte need to stay in the organzation. 60/40 guys that gave us some firepower thrills at Hammons.
I remember a time I had high hopes for Greene, seems not so long ago.
by cardschinmusic on Nov 30, 2007 6:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
bwahahaha
I suppose to look on the bright side it SHOULD only be one year...and cheap, and he plays good D?
Better than Eck for 4 years?
Does anyone have a list of FA SS for next year?
Ive heard it was a pretty decent list.
I cant find it.
by jealousblues on Nov 30, 2007 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I had a feeling..
Where will LaRussa bat him....`10th? Right after the bat boy takes a cut!
Maybe it'll be his career year and he repeats 2004 with fewer at bats from hitting lower and a has little more pop. (JINX)
by cardschinmusic on Dec 1, 2007 5:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gambling
also, if eck asks for 7-8-9 million in arb, what do you do if he gets it? arbiters aren't market-based deciders as far as i know, ie, won't the decision will focus more on his past performances, like ws mvp?
by sportsman on Nov 30, 2007 7:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Kozma
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 30, 2007 8:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Kozma
by rockin the red on Nov 30, 2007 8:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't really block
Kozma is probably 2-3 years away. Someone needs to play in the interim. While many of us advocate just pluggin in Ryan and giving up on this season anyway, I am sure none of us advocate 3 years of him.
What I a saying is Zorbist already has some marginal times in the bigs. He would be hitting arbitration years when Kozma arrives. One of them would then be decent trade bait.
A guy like Wilson would bridge two years.
A guy who might be major league ready like the Sox kid would give us 2-3 years of very cheap play before a decision would be have to be made...keep the price inflating one or go with the younger longer team controlled kid.
The Zobrist and Lowrie options are great IMO. They give us very cost considerate fills while giving us future options...all with upside.
I would prefer the Zobrist option because I really don't want to part with Anderson.
by RedbirdRay on Nov 30, 2007 8:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's one thing to pencil Rasmus
by MdRedbirdFreak on Nov 30, 2007 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Per Baseball America
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 30, 2007 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kozma isn't going to jump three levels
by azruavatar on Nov 30, 2007 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
20
by RedbirdRay on Nov 30, 2007 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He'll start next season at age 20
2010, he'll be 22, which would be the first year he would either a)make the MLB team or b)start a season at AAA.
I don't know where you got the 20 year old in AAA.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 30, 2007 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
looks like the cardinals just got a sandwich pick
by lboros on Nov 30, 2007 8:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting part
by RedbirdRay on Nov 30, 2007 8:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or
by RedbirdRay on Nov 30, 2007 8:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, maybe
- 9.1 million
- 8.6 million
- 9.1 million
- 8.2 million
Zobrist was very bad in limited major league at-bats this year, but did well in AAA, so I'm also speculating that his PECOTA projection won't change much, which is currently:
- 13.8 million
- 14.2 million
- 14 million
- 14.2 million
by mikedallas23 on Nov 30, 2007 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Come on
by ICbirdfan on Nov 30, 2007 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why must I admit that?
by mikedallas23 on Nov 30, 2007 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
They are the exact same age both born May 1981.
Duncan
.884 OPS
.356 OBP (pretty good, he was brutal 2nd half)
.528 SLG
.272 AVG
44 HR
Zobrist
.509 OPS Eck OPS= .738 Miles OPS= .676
.234 OBP wow thats bad
.275 SLG
.200 AVG
OK he is not that good defensively that he makes up for that glaring of a difference in offensive categories.
That is why I say it is a bad Straight up trade. Throw in another DRay and it may be an OK trade.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 30, 2007 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those are only his major league numbers...
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/pageIntreg.php
Last year's PECOTA projections think he will hit .283/.351/.401 in 2008, that ain't bad for a shortstop either. I doubt he will ever make an all-star team but he looks like a good candidate to give you slightly above league average production for low salary for several years and that's nothing to sneeze at.
by mikedallas23 on Nov 30, 2007 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Zobrist
That was my only beef. Now Zobrist may be worth a look but if he was traded straight up for duncan I would not bee too happy. I think 2008 is an important year for Duncan. I want to see him "play every day" and then the Cardinals can determine if they need to keep him or can afford to trade him. He right now besides Albert is the only real pop in the line up. Ankiel is still not a proven thing.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 30, 2007 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No worries
by mikedallas23 on Nov 30, 2007 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you sure?
Is there a place to go to see whether we offered a player arbitration?
by Toddius396 on Nov 30, 2007 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gentleman's agreement
by dmb60614 on Nov 30, 2007 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Get out of my head!
by Red Blazer on Nov 30, 2007 9:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Lowrie or Nelson
Nelson and Lowrie are very different beasts, but both would be a nice infusion for the Cards. Nelson's the worse bet to stick at SS, but might come the cheapest (is the most "blocked").
Don't forget about Sean Rodrigues of the LAA, or a couple younger guys in the Rangers system.
by siddfynch on Nov 30, 2007 10:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
"Azruavatar
Sincerely,
Azruavatar's high school teacher
by 26thMan on Nov 30, 2007 10:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, I'd have smacked
by sdrone on Nov 30, 2007 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BA top 10 list
- Colby Rasmus, of
- Chris Perez, rhp
- Bryan Anderson, c
- Jaime Garcia, lhp
- Adam Ottavino, rhp
- Pete Kozma, ss
- Clayton Mortensen, rhp
- Mitchell Boggs, rhp
- Tyler Herron, rhp
- Jon Jay, of
by StLHugo on Nov 30, 2007 10:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
rasmus
by cdb on Nov 30, 2007 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Projected 2011 line-up.
by RedbirdRay on Nov 30, 2007 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's 100% guesswork anyway
by joker24 on Nov 30, 2007 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
did anybody post
1. Jay Bruce
2. Evan Longoria
3. Cameron Maybin
4. Clayton Kershaw
5. Joba Chamberlain
6. Clay Buchholz
7. Colby Rasmus
8. Andrew McCutchen
9. Homer Bailey
10. Adam Miller
by rocKStark5 on Nov 30, 2007 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh refreshing
by joker24 on Nov 30, 2007 11:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn't
by erik on Nov 30, 2007 11:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Letter of rec
by chuckb on Nov 30, 2007 1:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hope
by Toddius396 on Nov 30, 2007 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and
by SprfldCards on Nov 30, 2007 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Article says 1 yr...
by FunkeeC on Nov 30, 2007 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank goodeness we didn't offer
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 30, 2007 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why wouldn't they
by silent_bob on Nov 30, 2007 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mmmm, taste the McVeteran goodness!
by mikedallas23 on Nov 30, 2007 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well
Ryan gets better and better in people's minds--he wasnt exactly a terror in the minors. And, actually, Izturis is 27 while Ryan is 25. Its not like Izturis is a grandpa.
Is he a good player? No. But the options out there weren't great.
by beanocook on Nov 30, 2007 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Last line of the article
by tdawg on Nov 30, 2007 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh mo
by johnstonburg on Nov 30, 2007 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
honestly
Was Capuano bad last year? Yes. But he was a #2 guy in the NL Central the two previous years. He's not a castoff.
by beanocook on Nov 30, 2007 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it could be worse they could have done this..
oh it gets better now they may move burke and luke scott..not that they are studs, but burke has to have some folk lore for his shot against the braves
by punchinjudy on Nov 30, 2007 1:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
We already did that when we signed Kennedy..
by Red Blazer on Nov 30, 2007 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that was for about 5-6 million bucks less
by willievinceterry on Nov 30, 2007 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the line in the PD article
by RosevilleRedbird on Nov 30, 2007 1:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
other than last year
and heck, last year he was probibly better than half our staff ;-)
by jealousblues on Nov 30, 2007 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Disappoints me, too
by liam on Nov 30, 2007 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank You!
Being a reader on the site keeps me calm and lets me understand that this signing, while not the best, gives us 1yr of a defensive capable shortstop and and possibly a chance to see what Ryan can do. Signing Eck or Wilson to 3-4 years would be a truely bad signing.
My only question is who bats lead off????
by badseed on Nov 30, 2007 2:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Finding the leadoff hitter is
Time for Edmonds or Rolen to be considered. I wonder if either guy would consider it an interesting late-career challenge and embrace the idea?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Nov 30, 2007 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Now you're talking
I don't think Tony will go w/ your Edmonds or Rolen idea but it should be considered and I like the fact that you're thinking outside the box.
by chuckb on Nov 30, 2007 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't spell it out, but I agree
by MdRedbirdFreak on Nov 30, 2007 10:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rasmussssssssss!!!!!
by Red Blazer on Nov 30, 2007 11:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ideally, Jarrett Hoffpauir will find a way
by azruavatar on Nov 30, 2007 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
intriguing
The idea I have is to hit Rolen in the 2 hole. If we are to really give him a chance to re-gain himself, I can't think of a better advantage to give him than to bat in front of Albert.
As far as 'wasting' a 4/5/6 type 'power' hitter in the 2 hole, a) Larussa has already proven he is willing to do that (Duncan); and b) we aren't all that sure that Scotty still has that pop in his bat anyway.
On the bases, he may not have blazing speed, but he is an intelligent runner, I think
by the Tewk on Nov 30, 2007 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a) he's probably not ready
by willievinceterry on Nov 30, 2007 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When will he be ready???
by Red Blazer on Nov 30, 2007 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this deal.
p.s. If we could get good deals I am extremely willing to trade rolen and duncan.
by tnek5 on Nov 30, 2007 2:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
if we can
by cm1000 on Nov 30, 2007 2:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
P-D online didn't help pave way for Itzuris...
by templetown on Nov 30, 2007 2:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Rotoworld sidebar
by saladdays on Nov 30, 2007 3:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yuck
by tdzz1975 on Nov 30, 2007 3:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Overstatement of the year?
by saladdays on Nov 30, 2007 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From Bernie's on-point piece about the man ...
Maybe the worst, if you buy into OPS (onbase + slugging) as a measure. Izturis literally had the worst OBP + SLG in the majors from 2001-2007 with an anemic .629.
We could forgive his lack of power if Izturis made himself useful by drawing walks and getting on base to set up innings. But Izturis doesn't even do that. His career OBP is a hideously bad .295.
From 2001-2007, only four hitters had a worse OBP: Neifi Perez (.285), Tony Batista (.287), Pedro Feliz (.288) and Deivi Cruz (.293).
The Izturis walk rate is terrible: one for every 21.09 plate appearance.
Basically, the man is an out machine. He just makes outs all season long."
I guess it could have been worse if we somehow got Neifi.
I would prefer Ryan, Eckstein, whoever the starting SS at Vianney is, and quite possibly my wife after I teach her the rules of the game.
God, I hope he proves me wrong.
by tdzz1975 on Nov 30, 2007 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Did you read lboros assessment of him? His lefty splits are decent. If he actually does get platooned with Ryan, we could get decent production out of that position.
by saladdays on Nov 30, 2007 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse me
by saladdays on Nov 30, 2007 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then
Itz is still not worth more than a bag of baseballs and some day-old donuts.
Maybe Tony can make him productive, but at this point that seems like wishful thinking.
by tdzz1975 on Nov 30, 2007 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it could be worse...
As stopgaps go, I can stomach this. I just wish Mo had the cajones to stand up to Tony and say "Ryan is your SS for 2008. Deal with it."
I just can't see Izturis contributing that much for his $2.85-$3.5M. Or I should say...I just can't see Izturis contributing ~$3M more than Ryan could next year.
As for Eck...maybe they SHOULD still offer him arbitration at the deadline. If he accepts, we have our "veteran" backup middle infielder for 1 year. We could platoon Ryan/Izturis at SS and Eck/Kennedy at 2B, while getting rid of the likes of Miles and Cairo. And if Eck declined the arbitration, we get the draft pick. Probably won't happen, however.
by Mr Clean on Nov 30, 2007 3:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I especially agree
But I guess a first-year GM can't go up against the overly venerated (I actually mean to say 'stubborn') Larussa.
I don't understand Larussa's seeming cold shoulder to B Ryan (is it still the sunglasses thing?) NOR do I understand the concensus on this board, which is tepid toward Ryan at best.
And money-wise, if we are going to spend big bucks for a proven star...GET A PITCHER!
by the Tewk on Nov 30, 2007 11:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Izturis Tsuris
by briangunn on Nov 30, 2007 4:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He's not even nifty with the glove...
He was great defensively in 04. But that appears to have been his peak year, period. Ever since he's declinded offensively and defensively.
by DiscoJer on Nov 30, 2007 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, what would really be bad
by saladdays on Nov 30, 2007 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless
Yeah there are better options but this is the best option for the Cardinals. They did not have to trade anyone to get a one year reantal type guy. There were no FA SS available and why trade anyone for a stop gap anyway. There were discussions about trading Bryan Anderson for a Boston minor league SS, but he had not proven he could play at the MLB level.
I see this as tolerable because the Cardinals did need a back up SS with eck being gone. Miles, Kennedy, Barden, and Hoffpauir are not guys you want to see at SS for extended time so if Ryan gets hurt at least you have a "true" SS to fill the gap. I don't think you want to see those other names playing 50+ games at SS.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 30, 2007 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wrong
This is flat out wrong. In fact, they have a player on the team that's essentially the same value as Izturis. His name is Brendan Ryan. He can at least hold par with Izturis offensively and the defensive gap isn't enough to justify paying another 2.5M. More importantly, you can comb the minor leagues for AAA players that are just as good as Izturis and make league minimum.
by azruavatar on Nov 30, 2007 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
I see it this way, it is OK to let Brendan prove his worth and I think he will get a shot to do it in 2008. The problem was what if Brendan gets hurt? I do not want to see Brian Barden, Aaron Miles, Adam Kenneday, or Jarret Hoffpauir try to play 60+ games at SS!
This is a good platoon option player for one year only and he comes about as cheap as you will get that for. The Cards could have went with a lot worse options like Wilson for two years.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 30, 2007 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree and
by punchinjudy on Nov 30, 2007 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True enough
by briangunn on Nov 30, 2007 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agree
For what went down this is about the best scenario, like I said I would not want to give up players for a guy like Jack Wilson. I also don't like paying a guy like Wilson 7 Mill per year. He is not 4 Mill better than Izturis.
The Cardinals have to have a legit SS as a back up or starter, but I see more of a platoon in 2008. Ryan will get plenty of PT to prove himself. Like I said does everyone want to see Miles, Barden, Kennedy, and Hoffpauir at SS as none of those guys are natural SS. Ryan or Izturis may get hurt so there has to be a person who is a natural SS backing up/ready to fill in.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 30, 2007 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
by briangunn on Nov 30, 2007 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Izturis
First, the guy was absolutely sensational his Gold Glove year. Scond, he did hit that year--no power, but 193 hits and decent average. Obviously he doesn't walk much, but the difference in power for him and say Eckstein is not that great in the grand scheme of things.
Now, I just read the Bernie M. blog entry blasting the guy with the statistical analysis, but this is the information that may be useful. The guy had won a Gold Glove here in LA and the Dodgers traded for Furcal and essentially the guy was devastated. He didn't handle it well, but would you, if you had won a Gold Glove and had the nation's second largest media market fawning over you, and then got dumped.
That clearly carried over when he got traded first to the Cubs and then to Pitt. The dude is will be 28 in February; he is not old and he should return closer to what he was. In other words he should not be in an age decline. There was an attitude problem. You don't have the skills that the guy showed in LA and lose those overnight. Let's hope the change of scenery will help.
If Ryan was not going to be used, then a one year deal is something that I think we can live with, particularly with LaRussa the manager. I do think that there are others within the organization that are not that high on Ryan as well. His sample last year is very minimal and his minor league career has not been distinguished. Eck was not going to get and should not get 4 years for $36 million from the Cardinals or really anyone.
by MortLA on Nov 30, 2007 4:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would be more sanguine, Mort,
by briangunn on Nov 30, 2007 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's had one good year...
by DiscoJer on Nov 30, 2007 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually
by willievinceterry on Nov 30, 2007 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like he will fit right in with the
by Red Blazer on Nov 30, 2007 4:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Will the Royals will be more fun to watch
The Royals are a team on the rise and have some exciting young players like Gordon & Butler that are probably going to establish themselves as very good offensive players next season.
Their pitching is still questionable but they are young have alot of promise. And they have a new "younger" manager that seems to have the fire to win and to help bring out the best in their young players.
In the other direction the Cards are are going to be playing with a really weak offense outside of Pujols & Ankiel and seems to be in this holding pattern leaning towards being one of the worst teams in the NL.
If you can put the bad memories of 85 aside the Royals might be a fun team to follow next summer while still following the Cards since 2008 seems to be a "throw away" season for our Redbirds.
At least this is how I am seeing my summer of 08 playing out.
by KYCards on Nov 30, 2007 4:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
mlb trade rumors is
by cm1000 on Nov 30, 2007 4:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My lord, the implications
by wyld stallyns on Nov 30, 2007 5:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Izturis? GROSSS!!
How pitiful is it that Dan Haren just came on the market and I got excited for 1 second before I realized that the Cards have ZERO chance of going after him in Nashville this week.
Someone, somewhere, please explain to me how paying, and playing a known mediocrity like Cesar Izturis makes more sense than playing Brendan Ryan everyday, who is young, cheap, and has shown signs that he can get Xbase hits.
This is a Cubs signing. A Royals signing. If we're going to rebuild-- REBUILD!! Let these young guys who carried us back to .500 (briefly, I know) play every day, we might not be in the playoffs, but we'll know if they can play and plan for the future or let them be attractive enough to deal for studs like Dan Haren (who never should have gotten away, but I was for the Mulder trade just like everyone else. We just didn't know we'd be getting damaged goods.)
IZTURIS!!!!!!!!!!!! Spanish for "PUNCH AND JUDY!!!"
Gross!
by AtlantaCard on Nov 30, 2007 5:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Proven talent
by yad on Nov 30, 2007 5:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
J-Rod, we hardly knew ye
by tdawg on Nov 30, 2007 5:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if
by chuckb on Nov 30, 2007 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Might be the best thing for him
by Red Blazer on Nov 30, 2007 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
mlb rumors
by cm1000 on Nov 30, 2007 9:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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