Tim Lincecum

I think they could get Cabrerra w/ Lincecum....

Unless we trade for him first.

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Nov 2, 2007 7:33 PM EDT reply actions

Lincecum....

plus two other top prospects.

Wonder if they'd be more willing to move Cain.

Lowry isn't enough for Duncan, but Cain/Lincecum may be too much.

Got to find a deal there though. They have young quality arms they are willing to pay for a young controllable hitter. Mozeliak needs to find a way to make this work.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 2, 2007 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions

If you ask me...

Anderson is more than an add on. I'd like to get my hands on Lincecum though... that's for sure.

by AndyB83 on Nov 2, 2007 7:45 PM EDT reply actions

That's what she said.

I can't think of a good offseason signature.

by effin fisk on Nov 2, 2007 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Quiet, you!!!

You beat me to it...argh!!!!

"The only thing you know about pitching is that you can't hit it." Bob Gibson to Tim McCarver

by player2bnamedl8r on Nov 2, 2007 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions

well played...

well played

by AndyB83 on Nov 3, 2007 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions

No way

Duncan and Anderson aren't even close.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Nov 2, 2007 8:05 PM EDT reply actions

Disagree...

That would definitely make them think twice.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 2, 2007 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions

We could possibly net a SF starter

But not Linecum. If Linecum goes anywhere it's going to be for an established superstar like Miguel Cabrera.

It's been suggested that in the article that was the source for this rumor, the writer meant Lowry, not Linecum. With the pitching prospects SF has that can be moved for decent bats, I can't fathom that they'd let Linecum go.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Nov 2, 2007 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Yea...

I can't image that they actually meant Lincecum. If they did, then clearly he has some sort of hidden injury. The kid has Cy Young stuff. I really think they meant Lowry.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Nov 2, 2007 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions

If this is true

then Brian Sabean has to be one of the worst GMs in the league right now.

He's the guy who traded Francisco Liriano, Joe Nathan and Boof Bonser for one year of AJ Pierzynski.

Maybe we can get Lincecum, Sanchez and Correia for Skip.

by 26thMan on Nov 2, 2007 8:42 PM EDT reply actions

tis the season

for wild rumors.

Future Redbirds

by erik on Nov 2, 2007 9:48 PM EDT reply actions

And mistyped names

there is no way he meant Linecum.

Well, let's go to the old mill anyway -- get some cider!

by Alxfritz on Nov 2, 2007 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions

There is no way we could get Lincecum when

They could use him to get the power bat/ 3rd baseman they want. He could be the center piece for SF in a deal for Cabrera from FL.

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Nov 3, 2007 12:11 AM EDT reply actions

I still think we might be able to get Cain

Duncan + one of

Another outfielder not quite that level (Skip or Lduwick)
OR
Near MLB ready prospect. Not sure if we have anything to offer here.

by DriverZn on Nov 3, 2007 12:43 AM EDT reply actions

BTW: I don't think its a fair trade

Just that they might go for it because they are desprate for hitting and their GM isn't the sharpest knife around.

by DriverZn on Nov 3, 2007 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions

i think

that to get either of these guys it will take no less than rasmus and a B-ish prospect... in other words, its not happening unless u offer them something absolutely ridiculous

by bigmcq16 on Nov 3, 2007 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions

Sabean

Is a big knucklehead but I doubt he's going to get burned a la Liriano, Bonser, Nathan for Pierzynski again. I think a Cards package may have to include Rasmus AND Duncan and maybe one more (Reyes, Garcia, or Anderson maybe).

Way I see it, if for some idiotic reason Sabean is dangling Lincecum or Cain than it better be for Miguel Cabrera. That is the only way that the Giants don't get totally destroyed in that deal.

by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 3, 2007 2:26 AM EDT reply actions

He's probably saying Lincecum and Cain

because he really means Lowry. He wants to make sure folks CALL him. The Giants want to get younger....they won't do that if they start trading their YOUNG pitchers, especially the ones that seem to have the goods. No way either of these pitchers get moved. If they do, I'd fire the GM.

by jillsinmo on Nov 3, 2007 7:37 AM EDT reply actions

This may seem radical

but I'd be willing to trade Colby Rasmus for Tim Lincecum.

You can find speed outfielders with decent pop in their bat but pitchers like Tim come along only once in awhile.

He's going to be a star.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 3, 2007 11:18 AM EDT reply actions

Well...

I don't think you are quite giving Colby his due...

"speed outfielders with decent pop in their bat"

That is selling him pretty short. The guy looks to be a .900 OPS, Gold Glove Caliber CF. Those don't grow on trees either.

However, I would probably make that move as well.

They are both going to be stars.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 5, 2007 6:03 PM EST up reply actions

Duncan's value

Duncan's value is not very high, if we can move Duncan who plays horrible defense in left field and is just another left handed bat in an outfield full of left handed bats for a pitcher like Noah Lowry, who is unspectacular but will come cheap, provide a sense of stability to the rotation (hell, he might be our #2) then I do it in a heartbeat. Duncan is not nearly as good as everyone on this board seems to think. His minor league numbers certainly don't reflect any type of huge value. Even before his injury he was beginning to slide, I would trade him while he still has some value. The outfield would still be Ludwick,Edmonds/Rasmus, and Ankiel.

I'll tell you what - if the Cardinals wanted a pitcher like Linceum, they could have had him in the draft. His name is Rick Porcello and he's going to be a stud. Instead they took Pete Kozma.

let anthony reyes pitch and learn from his mistakes.

by thefordhamflash on Nov 4, 2007 11:36 AM EST reply actions

Duncan

Here is my deal. I want to see Duncan play at least 155 games this season. I would then evaluate his value. I personally think in 155 games Duncan hits 34+ HR. Now at the same time waiting a year lets you see how good Ankiel and Ludwick really are. Right now Duncan has better trade value than those two because he has done more than those two at the MLB level.

I just fear this.
Jim Edmonds- Done after 08
Rick Ankiel- Who knows about how 08 goes.
Colby Rasums- Around in 09 who knows about his power.

I just think if the Cardinals trade Duncan prematurely eveyone is going to be looking for a LH power hitter to compliment Albert. Who knows how Rick post HGH and Colby will do power wise.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 4, 2007 12:39 PM EST up reply actions

I agree

with both of you on some key points. I am very high on Duncan. With a full, healthy season this year the guy would have hit 25 home runs and posted a 125 OPS+, and thats a conservative estimate, even after a regression due to general hitting difficulties. His last month was about as bad as you can hit, and he still ended up with an 834 OPS. That would have to be replaced, and I just don't think Ryan Ludwick is a good replacement for what Duncan does. Therefore, if he were to be traded it would have to be for a pretty good pitcher (Garza/Lowry level at minimum). I'm NOT opposed to trading him if a deal like that were to occur, so long as every one was aware that Ryan Ludwick isn't as good as Duncan is, and Ankiel is a massive ?.

And as for ole Peter Kozma...Well I guess if you're after a slick fielding SS who will hit 3 home runs a season and put up a 270/350/290 line, then that was a tremendous pick. What the heck were they thinking...Freakin' Porcello was there to be had, or even Andrew Brackman, Tim Alderson, or Michael Main were out there if they didn't think they could sign Porcello...But KOZMA??? Good lord.

by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 4, 2007 4:48 PM EST up reply actions

kozma

Yeah I don't know about this Kozma guy. Wow is he ever unimpressive!

The braves drafted a high school kid Jeff Gilmore from Iowa as a future 3B/LF who was better than Kozma. Gilmore played SS in high school and was 6'3 215.

Come on STL I was not happy with the Kozma deal. No one was really raving about the guy.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 4, 2007 8:55 PM EST up reply actions

Kozma

I just have a real issue with that pick. I know that the MLB draft is a crapshoot and people taken in the 35th round are almost as likely to be superstars as anyone else. But with that in mind, I think you should use the first round to take guys with a ton of talent and see what happens. If the Cards really wanted a position player, and I can understand wanting a position player over a HS pitcher, than there were better options than Kozma. They could have had Wendell Fairly, an OFer, who was by all accounts one of the more athletic guys in the draft. Or they could have taken Gilmore, or Nick Noonan (whose swing looks like it could at some point generate power, unlike Kozma)...Or of course they could have gone pitcher with Porcello, Main, etc. But they took Kozma.

I guess it is a safe pick, a guy who could make the show and be a decent little player. But that's not what first round is for.

by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 5, 2007 6:28 PM EST up reply actions

Agreed

First round is for studs with tons of tools!! There are so many rounds you can get Kozma aka Hoffpauir at anytime.

You want to get guys who have a chance to be outstanding in my opinion, not league average at best.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 5, 2007 8:58 PM EST up reply actions

The first round of the draft is by

no means a crapshoot. These players have been heavily vetted and seen by multiple scouts. Is every player going to make the majors? No. But calling it a crapshoot is misleading.

by azruavatar on Nov 5, 2007 10:15 PM EST up reply actions

Exactly

Ryan Ludwick is not as good as Chris Duncan in my opinion.

Rick Ankiel is still a ? mark. Never know when he will just quit producing all together kind of like at the end of last season.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 4, 2007 8:59 PM EST up reply actions

Are these comments

coming from the same people who can't stand seeing us pay Miles $1 million for next season? Check yourself then, because Porcello, Brackman, and Alderson are all Boras clients -- which means a $1 - $2 million dollar signing bonus just for the opportunity to let them play in your farm system. I hate sunk costs on crappy MLB regulars, I hate them even more when they're dumped as signing bonuses for draft picks (especially pitchers) who haven't proven anything beyond the high school level.

"The Cardinals have won a World Series in THEIR new stadium!" --my Uncle Jim to a heckling Cubs fan

by fourstick on Nov 5, 2007 9:35 AM EST up reply actions

So...

you'd rather pay Miles 1.5M than spend that money on a guy with the upside of Porcello?

That's a real poor strategy imo.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 5, 2007 6:06 PM EST up reply actions

Hmm...Well

You're talking about an apples and oranges situation. Miles is a pretty goddamn mediocre player, a guy with the ability to stand at several positions on the field and slap a few singles here and there. And he made over a million dollars to do it. Now, bringing him back for this past season wasn't a horrible move, b/c Hoff wasn't on the radar screen and Ryan is pretty average too. However, I think Ryan has proven himself to be a capable fill in at SS or 2nd off of the bench, and I think Hoff has developed to the point where he could at worst match Miles's performance. Therefore, I see no reason to bring Miles back for next season...None whatsoever.

Rick Porcello was one of the top 3 prospects in this draft behind Price and maybe Jarrod Parker. He's a potential ace in the Justin Verlander mode. And he was there to be had, but the team took Pete Fucking Kozma, basically to save money I guess. Yeah, Porcello would have cost some buck, but by the time he made the show they wouldn't be paying him that much considering what they could probably get out of him. So, if the question is a mill for Miles or 2-3 mill on a signing bonus for Porcello...I take the 2-3 mill on Porcello any day of the week.

by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 5, 2007 6:18 PM EST up reply actions

Read this article by Silver from BP

and be sure to read the Rany Jazayerli articles that are linked to in there. They'll provide you with a better idea of how to value draft picks because I think you're really offbase in your valuation of early draft picks.

Valuing Draft Picks

by azruavatar on Nov 5, 2007 10:18 PM EST up reply actions