UPDATED: The Diary about Diaries
Dear Diary,
I just wanted to waste time and server space to vent about a small issue I have with this whole diary thing.
I feel the diary issue here is confusing. There are unwritten rules here regarding what's appropriate and what isn't. This unofficial rules catch many off-guard. This is evidenced by the multiple times a diary goes up and is quickly questioned as to whether it contains content legitimate enough to warrant a diary.
The problem, I believe, is in the name. "Diary" is misleading. New users register and are given links to create their own "diary". What does one do in a traditional diary? Write anything and everything that comes to mind, personal things, or WTF they feel like. Parents encourage children to do this. College professors encourage english and journalism students to do this. What happens when you take "Diary" to it's literal sense here? You get blasted!
As I have been taught never to complain without offering suggestions for solution, here are a couple...
1) Change the name. Don't call it a diary. Call it something more term-appropriate like "Side-bar Article" or "Discussion Point". I am not aware if that is possible through the blog program. Or,
2) Make the blog's unwritten social rules written. Make Diary Guidelines and post them in the Community Guidelines or give it it's own guideline category.
Update [2007-11-16 12:35:1 by lboros]: lboros here; i've read the comments, and obviously this issue merits some discussion. crappy diaries annoy me as much as they annoy ev'yone else. like you, i cringe at the vapid "cards talk"-like threads --- although i don't think they're as prevalent as some of you do. my general approach has been to ignore the stupid dairies and pay attention to the good ones, because weeding out the bad takes a lot of time and effort --- and i'm already expending more of those on the site than i can comfortably afford. so if we're gonna police the diaries more vigilantly, i will need some help.
Athletics Nation has a diary guideline which says, in essence: "Diary entries are not for short or glib comments; they need to deal with something of substance." the problem i see with this guideline is that "substance" is in the eye of the beholder. i can't come up w/ fair, objective, consistent criteria that clearly explain the difference between "substance" and "message-board junk." it's not merely a matter of length -- some quick-hit diaries are totally appropriate and effective and spark good discussions, while others suck; likewise, some longer diaries are nothing more than rambling, empty ruminations. and i can't see fit to issue a blanket prohibition on "trade rumor" diaries, because some of those call attention to good information, and others contain creative thinking about the roster --- but many of them are annoying and full of ridiculously unrealistic ideas. some off-beat or humorous diaries work; others grate like fingers on the chalkboard.
in the end, the quality of a diary has nothing to do w/ objective criteria like length or type of subject matter; it's all about the execution. if a poster is insightful and thoughtful, he/she will write a good diary; if not, the diary will suck to one degree or another. so i'm at a loss to come up w / fair guidelines, but i'm very much opening to hearing your ideas. if you have suggestions for how to distinguish legit diaries from junk diaries, post 'em here.
if we do come up with good criteria, the other issue is enforcement. i already spend more of my time policing the site than i'd like, and that subtracts from the time i have available to think (and write) about the organization itself. so if this is going to be policed more vigiliantly, i'll need some help. if anybody has any ideas re an enforcement mechanism and/or wants to help enforce the guidelines and decide whether or not each diary passes muster, let me know.
0 recs |
46 comments
Comments
It took me awhile to get the hang of it
I would like to request a spell check function though. Would be nice.
by Red Blazer on Nov 15, 2007 4:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
there is a good
by ridgesee on Nov 15, 2007 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
diary
i have only put up a few, with middling success
i found something out the other day that i didnt know; when you click on the diary link (which i had somehow never done before) all the diaries come up whole, and you have to scroll down through them, either reading each or scrolling through
after realizing this, i will be more careful about what i put in a diary; i just always thought they could click on it if they wanted to, never realizing they were having to scroll through it without a choice
by bigcardsfan5 on Nov 15, 2007 4:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
two sections
by StLHugo on Nov 15, 2007 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Watching this blog evolve is awesome
In the early days, LB was posting everyday. Then other front page writers emerged. Then there were codes of conduct to prevent harsh/objectionable comments in the game threads. Now we come to a new crossroads: The Diary Reformation. With each new change comes new insights and benefits, as well as new distractions. I only have one question: Who is Piggy?
It's me, isn't it. I knew it was me. It's okay, I'm ready to die.
by effin fisk on Nov 15, 2007 4:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
at least for tonight
by nycbirdo on Nov 15, 2007 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'll put up some guidelines
i also don't want to have more rules to enforce. . . .
i may look into activating the "recommended diaries" feature. if you read a diary and it's good, you recommend it; the ones that get the highest scores are bumped into a privileged queue, where they can't be shoved off the front page by crappier entries.
by lboros on Nov 15, 2007 5:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Recommended diaries
I admit - I have criticized diary content without giving a solution to the problem. The problem may be that this is a "blog" site and "bloggers" post random thoughts all the time. Maybe I'm too quick to criticize. But when good, quality "diaries" that encourage discussion are bumped for a random thought, it irks me.
What I'm trying to say is: please, think before you post. Take the time to examine the higher quality of content that LB et al provide for us here. If you have a comment, post it in the comment section. Thread-jacking is allowed; hell, it's even encouraged!
by silent_bob on Nov 15, 2007 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
recommended diaries
by dmb60614 on Nov 15, 2007 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
by joecardsfan on Nov 15, 2007 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Recommended Diaries" Feature
That being said, having a clear set of written diary guidelines still wouldn't hurt, and they can evolve/improve as well over time because of the subjective nature of the quality.
Anything that can be done to help weed out the repetition and low quality entries would be useful in my opinion, since searching for the wheat amidst the chaff is tiresome.
by AustinBOB on Nov 15, 2007 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
bcb
by raisin on Nov 15, 2007 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
recommended diaries can be good
I doubt that would happen here, but there is a concern that i the community aggressively selects for one subject area, everything else can get forced down the list. Our community is small enough, though, that that is probably not a concern.
by Valatan on Nov 15, 2007 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
unless someone really, REALLY wants eckstein back or something, i can't see that being an issue here.
by nycbirdo on Nov 15, 2007 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I agree
Of course, there, you need a recommended list just to keep diaries on the front page--I think the average lifetime of a diary on the 'recent diaries' sidebar on daily kos is something like 30 minutes.
by Valatan on Nov 16, 2007 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Recommended Diaries
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 15, 2007 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sensing fatigue
Certainly some people have been checking this site obsessively longer than others, but it IS a public website for a professional baseball team. There are going to be visitors and there are going to be a lot of people who expect different things from this blog. Not everyone here is going to start by reading the community guidelines.
I'd rather put up with crappy diaries than lose the revered lboros to fatigue from the pettiness going on at his site.
by effin fisk on Nov 15, 2007 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely Agree
by brafi on Nov 16, 2007 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Recommended Diaries
I think this is great. I never know about the nature of what gets a response around here. Sometimes I throw a diary out there that I think is well thought out and will provide a lot of discussion and it goes nowhere. Other times I do a quick-hit and get 30 responses, it feels kinda random. I read a lot of diaries have a lot of very good thought in them, but just don't have anything to add--it would be nice to be able to bump these to the front page with a recommendation, not neccesarily a response.
by BigJawnMize on Nov 16, 2007 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's
by rockin redbird on Nov 15, 2007 6:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Common sense
I've spent 3 years and who knows how many thousand posts here myself.
It's not that I personally don't understand the norms here, it's that I recognize a consistant enough problem to indicate it's systemic.
Maybe it's a lack of common sense, or an indication someone didn't read before they wrote. Or maybe, it's because random thoughts go with most blogs and diaries in general.
Either way, as I'm sure you've realized after some time around the boards...common sense and average internet user are not necessarily friends.
For the most part, it's not long-time readers who make the diary mistake. It's newer users. Here's what I figure happens many times: A person reads and registers. They decide it's a cool site and attempt to participate. The "Diary" implies "own little section" to them, or "personal thoughts" and they jot some quick thoughts on recent events down in an attempt to reach out to the VEB community. The community quickly replies in a not so welcoming manner. The new reader is then at a crossroads... continue reading anyway learning the social norms as they go...or taking a bad experience and deciding to read elsewhere losing the site traffic.
I just made an observation and some suggestions to make things smoother. Maybe they will work, maybe not.
by RedbirdRay on Nov 15, 2007 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're
by rockin redbird on Nov 16, 2007 2:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
by rockin redbird on Nov 16, 2007 2:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Problem is,
by cardsrul on Nov 15, 2007 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
endictment==
by rockin redbird on Nov 16, 2007 2:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I noticed ....
I like the the idea of recommended diaries, but with only so many topics in a dedicated BB forum, some allowance is in order for a degree of repetition? We can choose to follow a diary or not.
I like the idea of potential d loggers having to check the recent diary history (going back 30 or more) before posting something "they think" might be new (there could be a header on each blank diary page with 2-3 suggestions before posting?). That might take some heat off our webmaster.
by cardschinmusic on Nov 16, 2007 4:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm getting pretty tired of them too
by gdm426 on Nov 16, 2007 4:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
i think you should have some sort of posting
by erik on Nov 16, 2007 8:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good idea.
by RedbirdRay on Nov 16, 2007 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice Idea
This way poor writers (like myself) or people with content of lesser quality than the diaries can still engage with the rest of the Card's community.
Maybe if a rating system is applied to the message boards, it would be easier for LB to check out who might be "Diary Worthy."
by plaz on Nov 16, 2007 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How about this...
by Red Blazer on Nov 16, 2007 12:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ouch
by liam on Nov 16, 2007 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well at least you know wether or not you
by Red Blazer on Nov 16, 2007 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Lb
by Calhoun on Nov 16, 2007 12:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
maybe it's just me
if i'm not interested by the title, i wait to see if the comments pile up. if they don't get over 10, i usually just ignore it.
in the past year, you've moved up a couple of diaries with continued relevance/interest.
otoh, most of us simply ignore the shitty post-message board like diaries.
by sdesserman on Nov 16, 2007 3:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
various thoughts
If registering with the VEB site gives you the ability to post diaries, then if I've never posted a comment, I should still be able to write a diary. Most folks are reasonable, and if you respectfully ask them to put more thought into what they're writing, they'll either do so, or move on. If you give them the impression that this is some elitist writing site where you have to qualify in order to write, well . . ., I don't think that was the state of VEB when I first started reading and posting it, and I don't think that's the direction lboros et al intended.
A couple of weeks ago I wanted to post a diary about my screen-name's sake getting hired as a Brewers bench coach, because I didn't want to hijack whatever thread was active for the main article of the day on VEB. I wrote a couple of sentences and posted the link to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel article. There was some minimum boundary (300-character, 300-word, I don't recall which) that my diary did not meet, and it was bounced -- there's actually a nice system message that told me to put some more thought into it. I didn't have time to put more thought into it. So I moved it to a place where I have blogging privileges: The Birdwatch, where I did not have to meet a minimum boundary. Why do I bring this up? It's a quantitative evaluation of my attempted diary entry. Now, I didn't get all bent out of shape about it -- VEB isn't my site, and I'm sure some thought went into making the minimum limit 300, and whatever the limit was, it sounded reasonable to me, so I took my rejected diary content someplace where I knew I would not be restricted. But quantitative evaluation is much easier than qualitative evaluation, and once you head down that slope, you start limiting who can join the discussion, and pretty soon, this becomes a small exclusive club.
My points are all over the place, I know, but I guess I'm saying: I believe that VEB should either restrict access to diaries or the readership of VEB should put up with the fact that diaries are not going to be at the same level of quality as the daily posts. If the people who are writing diaries had time to run their own blog, they probably would -- they don't, so they post diaries here.
It's an interesting topic of discussion. No one has "the right" to post here, unless it is granted by the site and those who manage it. But if "the right" is given to everyone, then good luck trying to enforce rules or guidelines on quality of content.
TSF
by TedSimmonsFan on Nov 16, 2007 4:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
What bugs me
It's the comment police who jump all over someone for posting something they find repetitive or disinteresting.
I find it amusing that someone who determines that a diary is "a waste of time" will then waste more time leaving a comment saying what a waste of time it was.
Maybe the comment police could try ignoring repetitive or otherwise "offensive" diaries to save themselves precious seconds of their lives as well as to keep their jackassery to themselves.
/rant
by 26thMan on Nov 16, 2007 11:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm guilty
It's an investment: a minimal energy expenditure now to explain why a comment is pure jackassery may save a great deal of future energy spent reading continued jackassery.
Opportunity cost. And shit, yo.
by liam on Nov 17, 2007 1:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe...heed the
And we now have a new word for the Dictionary! Jackassery! My post is a good IE: or EG:
by cardschinmusic on Nov 17, 2007 7:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So...
by RedbirdRay on Nov 17, 2007 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To be....
That said, I try to look for titles of interest before going further, the better a diary title is worded, the more likly I am to keep reading.
by cardschinmusic on Nov 18, 2007 6:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
my two cents
by nybirdfan on Nov 18, 2007 5:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the problem w/ this perspective
by lboros on Nov 18, 2007 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
What I think is wrong is when diaries get responded to by saying; 'What are you an idiot or something,' or 'what the fuck is wrong with you!'
I say if you read a diary or post and that is the best response you can can come up then keep it to youself.
A poster or diary writer who gets no response will think about his/her next effort a little longer and harder. Believe me Larry if my posts/diaries have had more responses I would write more. I have held myself back often because my piont of view doesn't stir much action, and my sense of humor seams to be misunderstood.
So I say to you new members here GO FOR IT! Give it your best shot if you are good like Hinkster wonderful if not try harder. Don't let the name calling and bickering discourage you.
by nybirdfan on Nov 18, 2007 9:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs




















