Viva El Birdos: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Spencer Hall's Sports Meme Power Rankings

center pieces

a bit of housekeeping: i've been delinquent in posting all the SB Nation award results; missed both leagues' cy young award winners and the american league mvp. i'll toss those into a diary for your perusal. as long as we're on the subject, jim baker of Baseball Prospectus notes that troy tulowitzki had the 15th-most wins above replacement of any rookie in history (and 5th-most since world war 2) at 10.8. his main competition for the ROY, ryan braun, had the 21st-highest equivalent average for any rookie in history, at .326. both were historically significant 1st-year players; they should just name them co-winners.

from the very young to the very old: i've been musing on jim edmonds lately. if the cardinals are gonna make any serious dent in last season's 100-run negative differential, edmonds will have to account for a big chunk of the runs. at the start of last season i wrote that the fate of the st louis offense might depend on his health; that wasn't necessarily an overstatement. for his first 100 or so plate appearances, which amounted to edmonds' spring training (he didn't get his first exhibition AB until march 25), he couldn't hit and the cards couldn't score. once he got untracked, the offense was pretty good:

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB AVG OBP SLG team
R/G
2007 overall 365 39 92 15  2 12 53 41 .252 .325 .403 4.5
2007 thru 5/11  99  8 20  1  1  1  7 10 .202 .275 .263 3.2
2007 after 5/11 266 31 72 14  1 11 46 31 .271 .343 .455 4.9
2006 350 52 90 18  0 19 70 53 .257 .350 .471 4.9

obviously he wasn't the only stl hitter who improved drastically after mid-may; no individual hitter could bring about a 50+ percent increase in scoring. but i'm a little struck by how much his line from the last 4.5 months of 2007 resembled his line from 2006. the 99 at-bat sample early last year, which occurred when edmonds was out of shape and still shaking off foot and shoulder surgeries, was pretty clearly an aberration. perhaps the company line --- that a healthier edmonds is poised to bounce back in 2008 --- isn't entirely out of whack. ZIPS projects edmonds to bounce back a ways toward the mean with a .247 / .344 / .440 line; that modest uptick in itself would translate into about 1 extra win in the standings. if he were to exceed that slightly --- say, to .260 / .360 / .460, replicating the level of production he sustained in 2006 and the last 2/3 of 2007 --- the cards would net another half a win. and if edmonds can stay on the field more regularly in 2008 and get 500+ plate appearances instead of 400+, we'd be looking at an offensive improvement on the order of 20 runs --- 20 percent of the cards' deficit from last year.

i don't want to sound too hopeful here; nearly all of edmonds' top 10 comparables at Baseball Reference nosedived in their late mid- to late 30s and never recovered. it's possible he will never be an above-average player again. it's also pretty clear that he can't hit left-handers anymore --- but the happy corollary is that he remains a pretty effective hitter vs right-handed pitching:

AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB AVG OBP SLG
2006-07 vs rhp 538 151 27 2 25 94 78 .281 .369 .478
2006-07 vs lhp 177 31 6 0 6 29 16 .175 .239 .311

edmonds had nearly 100 plate appearances vs left-handers last season; remove most of them from the equation in 2008, and edmonds' chances of posting an .820 ops aren't half bad. and if those opportunities went to a batter who can actually hit lefties, the cards might be looking at perhaps another 5 runs and another half-win --- likely one reason the cardinals (per mozeliak) are looking for a right-handed-hitting outfielder who's more potent than so taguchi. st louis centerfielders posted a .747 ops last year; with a little luck and the right personnel / management, they have a reasonable chance to get something in the .800 to .820 range from that position next season.

what rhb centerfielders are available? one's milton bradley (actually a switch-hitter, but he mashes left-handers), discussed at length here; another is jayson werth, who unless i'm mistaken is a free agent. a third possibility might be ryan spilborghs, who would have to be acquired via trade. this guy's season (.299 / .363 / .485) was only a bit of fluke; it's nearly in line with his major-league equivalents for 2005 and 2006. you can count on a line of .280 / .335 / .450 from this player with reasonable certainty; he's good vs left-handers and adequate in the outfield, will be 28 years old next year and has just over 1 year of service time, making him a cost-controlled player for the next 5 seasons. he's a younger, cheaper version of encarnacion --- and before you gag on that comparison, realize that he's got all encarnacion's good traits (a decent average, a little pop, a little speed, ability to play all 3 outfield positions) but none of his bad ones (a low obp, a 7-figure multiyear contract). the rockies don't need him, and they do need help in the bullpen and the back of the rotation; i wonder if they'd let us have him for brad thompson.

it would hardly solve all the cards' short-term problems to have edmonds producing at 2006 levels, with a competent platoon partner alongside him. but it would solve one problem. it seems safe to assume the team will be from 1 to 3 games better at that position in 2008.

i'm traveling today, so won't be showing up in the comments section till late in the day. don't forget to keep an eye on the readers' top 25 prospects poll at Future Redbirds.

0 recs  |  Comment 60 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Werth has one more year
on his contract, believe he signed a two year deal with Philly last year. I would love to see him in St. Louis. Not estatic about being a Phil, looking for playing time and the chance to show his woth(werth).
go crazy folks..........

by wwbd on Nov 12, 2007 9:50 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Werth is a FA
According to this site, Werth is a free-agent. I have thought he would be a nice fit for the Cards for a few years now. He is from the STL vicinity and I believe his dad played for the Cards ala Spezio. He's a RH batter who could play all 3 outfield spots. Anyway here's the link:

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/philadelphia-phillies_18.html

by indakind on Nov 12, 2007 12:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't he
still under the Phillies control unless they non-tender him?

by nybirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 12:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Werth contract
Everything I read says he signed a one-year free agent contract with the Phils last December. That would make him a free agent this year.

However he is not listed as a free agent by MLB so that must mean he is still under club control due to lack of service time. He must have been non-tendered by LA making him a free agent with some arbitration time still available.

by indakind on Nov 12, 2007 12:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Philadelphia press
makes it clear the Phillies are counting heavily on Werth for next season.  With the trade of Bourne to  Houston and the likely departure of Rowand as a free agent, Victorino is expected to move to center and Werth becomes the first choice for right.  I was a big proponent of the Cardinals signing Werth when he was available last year, but I think he will have to be written off for 2008.

by MikeG on Nov 12, 2007 2:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wanted hime too
and if I recall, he is somewhat local... yes?
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Nov 12, 2007 9:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

More info
Werth's stepdad played for the Yankees not Cards...

Grandpa was a Cardinal...Dick Schofield...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/schofdi01.shtml

Werth also mashes against lefties...

.375 BA, .467 OBP, .591 SLG, 1.058 OPS, 15/15 BB/K

Lest you think it was ballpark, he actually slugged higher on the road: .496/.415 road/home.

Another link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=4262

by indakind on Nov 12, 2007 12:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Another is
Reed Johnson, likely to be dfa'd by Toronto.  If not, he'd come cheaply via trade and could play all 3 OF positions.

by chuckb on Nov 12, 2007 10:15 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

A rested Jimmy
If Edmonds is right around .800 OPS and can put in 100-110 games platooning, I really like the idea of keeping him rested for the postseason. It naive, I know, to consider a 2008 postseason trip, but you never know. Even an old, slow-bat-speed Jimmy can do wonders in the postseason. He likes the limelight.

by Snacks LaPoint on Nov 12, 2007 10:36 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Go ahead and laugh...
but since you brought it up...

What about a farewell tour for Reggie?  I know he won't work as a platoon for Edmonds, and I'm not sure how his D would work out in RF but take a look at his numbers against lefties...Dude can still mash plus he costs us no talent and would sign for probably $2-3 Mil.  Not to mention he's a great clubhouse guy.

One other concern is his legs, but I for one would like to see him as our 5th OFer.

by cardzfanbub on Nov 12, 2007 10:37 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Reggie
I think he is not a good option but better than Milton Bradley.

Milton Bradley will not even be available for 1/2 the season.  If he is lucky he will be able to come back and play OK.  Barry Bonds is a much, much better player than Milton Bradley and he had trouble hitting when he had knee problems and came back too soon.  I think Milton would be a horrible idea coming off injury.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 10:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree
Bradley will most likely be at 80% or so by spring training.  He would have to work his way into shape for the 1st half, but he would be an ideal platoon partner because he just mashes LHP.  

by silent_bob on Nov 12, 2007 12:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

$2m to $3m
for a fifth outfielder?  SEems to be that spot should be something you pay a bit less for.

by sdrone on Nov 12, 2007 10:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...
Besides, giving that 5th spot to someone with upside ALSO gives us the chance that they might improve a la Ludwick.

by airhad on Nov 12, 2007 3:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Out of all these options....
I would choose Werth.  He wouldn't cost that much and he has good utility in the outfield.  The question is how much are they willing to pay for a 5th outfielder?  With all the problems at SS and a possible hole at 3B, I don't see any reason for them to spend money on a FA outfielder when Skip can do the job with a little less pop and a lot less money.

That leaves Spilborghs -- if they could get him for a Brad Thompson I think I'd do that deal considering that Kinney is likely to be back to help out in the pen, and Franklin might get to audtion for a back of the rotation spot.  On the face of it though, does Spilborghs give the Cards a lot more than Skip Schumaker?  Skip's never gotten a lot of playing time in the majors, hits lefties adequetly, and doesn't cost them any players or money outside of the minimum salary.

Spilborghs 2007 - (.299/.363/.485) 264 AB's

Schumaker 2007 - (.333/.358/.458) 177 AB's

This is a small sample size for both, but

Obviously Skip is left-handed and isn't going to hit as many HR's as Spilborghs (althought Spilborghs never hit more than 15 at any minor league stop so I wonder if his 11 last year were a bit of aberration), but I'm not sure he's worth trading for if they have to give up more than a Thompson type.

"The Cardinals have won a World Series in THEIR new stadium!" --my Uncle Jim to a heckling Cubs fan

by fourstick on Nov 12, 2007 12:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Isn't a pitcher like Thompson
More valuable than a 5th OF? We're talking about a pitcher who has demonstrated the ability to pitch well out of the bullpen and we know could be almost league average as a starter. Having a swing player like that can give us a very valuable 100+ innings each year.

Isn't that more important than a 5th OFer?

by airhad on Nov 12, 2007 3:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
I'd much rather have Thompson than another outfielder.  

If Reyes or a Reyes and throwaway package could net a Spillborough type, sure.  Not saying that could get it done necessarily, but that's all I'd offer.

 

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Nov 12, 2007 4:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Myself...
I'd much rather have Reyes than Thompson.
"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 12, 2007 5:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

humm....
I don't know about that statement.  As much as I want to say I would rather have Reyes due to his upside, updside only lasts so long.  I would say Brad Thompson has done a much better job than Reyes considering what he has had to battle vs. what Reyes has had to battle.

STL needs to start drafting the best available pitcher in the draft even if it is a HS kid.  They need to start drafting high ceilings.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 13, 2007 12:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

werth
i too wondered about why the cards had no interest or at least did not publically admit interst in him  anyone know the reasons?

by sportsman on Nov 12, 2007 9:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cubs trade Jacque Jones
for Omar Infante.

The Cubs were able to dump Jacque Jones' $5 M for next year.  Getting Omar Infante was somewhat of bonus, though they'll probably have to pay him about $1.5 M for 2008.

This is the kind of deal that I was hoping the Cardinals would do LAST year for JuanEnc, or this off-season.  Aaron Miles' foul ball ruined Juan's life and that chance.

This is also the kind of deal I hope they pull off for Braden Looper.  They need to move him while his value is high just to get rid of his salary and maybe pickup a spare part in return.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 1:39 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Great move
Is there a better example of parallel careers than Jones and JuanE (prior to the foul ball to the eye socket)?

by silent_bob on Nov 12, 2007 1:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not neccesarily
The similarity really exists only so far as the club's fans not liking them and their contracts.  

Jones last season was a plus glove in center field, and during the second half hit .332/.374/.458.  There's no way the Cubs made the post-season without Jones.

Not saying he's an All-Star or anything, just saying that he gets a bad rap from Cubs fans and he doesn't really deserve it.  Overpaid a little; maybe.  This trade would be fine as a pure salary dump, but it appears now that the Cubs are sending cash to Detroit.  No word on how much.

Meanwhile, Hendry gets to add to his collection of mediocre middle infielders.  Seriously--Theriot, Fontenot, Cedeno, DeRosa, and now Infante?  Don't get it.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Nov 12, 2007 5:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Mediocre
Watch out!!! :)

If Eck leaves even with Eck here I may argue that Theriot & Derosa are better than anyone the Cardinals can put in the middle infield.  Seriously who could the Cards put out there that would preform better than Theriot or Derosa.

I have said for a while the Cardinals MI situation is not good.  Even if Hoffpauir is around he is not better than Derosa or Theriot.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 5:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you mean defensively
cause offensively:


Player    AB    R    H  2B 3B  HR  RBI  BB   SO   BA    OBP   SLG
Theriot  537   80  143  30  2   3   45  49   50  .266  .326  .346
Miles    414   55  120  16  1   2   32  25   40  .290  .328  .348

Theriot stole a great number of bases, but he was also pretty terrible in the 2nd half with his bat.  Take out his red-hot July and he finishes the season a .250 hitter with 1 HR.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 5:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Heck, let's throw in little David Eckstein

Player    AB    R    H  2B 3B  HR  RBI  BB   SO   BA    OBP   SLG
Theriot  537   80  143  30  2   3   45  49   50  .266  .326  .346
Miles    414   55  120  16  1   2   32  25   40  .290  .328  .348
Ecktein  434   58  134  23  0   3   31  24   22  .309  .356  .382  
"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 5:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You got me!
You are correct.  But at the same time take a look and see what you are talking about.

People have been wanting Brendan Ryan to play SS?? he is no better than Theriot and as you said throw out a hot month and Theriot probably hits .255 with 2HR.  You know what he is basically the exact same player as Ryan.  How can people say they want Brendan Ryan to play SS?

by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 5:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan is no better than Theriot?
Ryan
Major League Totals - 1 Season(s) - .289/.347/.406
Minor League Totals - 5 Season(s) - .296/.344/.382

Eck
Major League Totals - 7 Season(s) - .286 .351 .362
Minor League Totals - 4 Season(s) - .294 .415 .391

looks like a eck to me. Only for 1/10th the cost.

On a side note. Eck had a .415 OBP in the minors?!? I guess it was easy to walk in the minors when you are 3 feet tall.

by Harknights on Nov 12, 2007 6:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You and I
You and I are basically making the same point.

The Cardinals MI is not stellar.  Come on the Cardinals should not take pride in stating that they have a couple guys who put up better stats than Theriot, and may I say not a lot better.

I think that

Ryan
Hoffpauir
Miles
Eck
Barden

Is not going to get it done.  How mediocre is that group?  

by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 5:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I never said
We were any better.  Theriot and DeRosa are utility players at best.  So are Brendan Ryan and Aaron Miles.  I just don't understand why they're stockpiling this type of player.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Nov 12, 2007 6:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jones for Infante
Garbage in, garbage out.  Congrats to the Cubs for dumping salary though.

by lightbulb on Nov 12, 2007 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fukadome
Making room for Fukadome  (sp????)

You all know who I am talking about, the Japanese outfielder.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 2:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Braden Looper
Certainly is in position to be "sold high" although I would be disappointed if they were only able to get a crappy SS like Infante for him...

After all, he's a cheap starting pitcher who's at least league average. That's a pretty damn valuable commodity.

by airhad on Nov 12, 2007 3:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but at 5.5 M
I think that money can be better spent elsewhere.
"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 3:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I want to see what Looper can do
with a full year of experience under his belt and better conditioning for his new role before we turn him out.
The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Nov 12, 2007 4:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why?
What possible higher upside could Looper have that can't be had from Brad Thompson, Chris Narveson or Todd Wellemeyer?
"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 4:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jimmy
Jimmy needs to be told to take about 5 steps back in CF.  He plays way too shallow.  I don't know how many times he got beat by balls in the gap and over his head.  He no longer has the closing speed and he needs to cheat a little bit.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 2:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Braun is ROY
ROY goes to Braun and Pedroia.  I think both are very deserving.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 2:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think Braun as ROTY
is a total fraud.

He won by 2 points. Such a shame.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 2:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Braun
Now I definitely think Tulo is the more complete ball player.

However I think Braun is the "true" Rookie of the year.

Tulo played 25 games and got 96 AB's in 2006.  So it's not like he was fresh meat in 2007.  I think 2006 gave him a distinct advantage getting his feet wet.  Now if he only got 15 AB's in 2006 it would be a bit different.

Braun made his "MLB Debut" May 25th 2007.  All you have to do is look at what he did after that.

Now I think the ROY rules are stupid.  In fairness to Braun he did not get the advantage Tulo did.  Tulo had 25 games and 96 AB in 2006 as a warm up.  I don't think he should have been eligible for ROY.  They need some other Category for guys like Tulo.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 3:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have to disagree with you there
These guys were 1 and 1a coming into the voting.  As was said in the main post for today, both guys were deserving.  Yes, Tulowitzki's overall VORP was higher and presented the picture of a better and more valuable overall player, but Braun's offensive season was so astounding that I don't think you can say that him winning was a fraud.  Now, if Chris Young had won then we could talk about something here.  But the voters going with Braun's offensive brilliance over Tulo's overall very very goodness is hardly a fraud, sham, crock of crap, or whatever adjective you want to use.  

by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 12, 2007 3:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Overall very, very goodness?
Tulo was one of the Top 5 defensive players in all of baseball.  I'll call that brilliance.

Braun was the worst.  I'll call that ineptness.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 3:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You're making it sound like
Braun was some shlub out there who had no business playing baseball and yet somehow won the ROY award.  Yes, Braun is a horrible, horrible defensive third baseman, and I'm not disuputing that.  Yes, Tulo had Braun beat in VORP when you add defense, and beat him by a decent margin.   But your argument is that this was, I quote "a fraud."  And that is where I can't disagree with you more.  As great as Tulo was defensively, and as outstanding as he was offensively, Ryan Braun had an offensive season for the ages for rookies.  He slugged .634, a full 24 points higher than Albert's rookie year.  He hit 34 home runs in 451 AB, 3 less than Albert did in 590 AB.  He was the best hitter on a very good offensive team from the second he was put in the lineup.  I would argue that it is much harder to be a good offensive player right away than a good defensive player, so to me being a top 5 hitter is a bigger accomplishment than being a top 5 fielder.  

Should Tulo have won?  Yeah probably...from an objective standpoint the guy had a better all around season.  But in all honesty, these guys were so close that had it gone the other way there would have been plenty of folks saying that Braun got screwed.  Like I said earlier, this was a case where Tulo was 1, and Braun was 1a.  Its like choosing between a Filet Mignon and a TBone.  The filet is incredibly good, and amazing, and you'd rather have it...but if you get a TBone are you going to flip shit, start throwing stuff, scream, yell, and claim you got screwed?  No, you're going to say mmm yum TBone and you'll eat it quite happily.  

by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 12, 2007 5:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good point
I think you are right about 1 and 1A.

However I mentioned that I don't think Tulo is a "True" rookie.  He is a rookie based on some MLB rule but I hardly consider a guy coming into a new season after having 96 ABS and playing 25 games a rookie.

I consider Braun to be a "True" rookie as he made his MLB debut this year.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 3:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No had Mike Pelfrey won
That would be a shame.

The guy that should have finished 2nd winning an award like this is forgetful.

Yadi not having a GG is a shame.

Mike stat just for kicks

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pelfrmi01.shtml

by Harknights on Nov 12, 2007 4:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Lol
Agreed...honestly in 20 years if both of these guys have a full career and Tulo winds up in the HOF, is it really going to matter that he didn't win ROY, especially if he's got a half dozen GGs (well unless Jeter gets traded to the Mets and steals them all), an MVP award, and a plaque in Cooperstown.  

by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 12, 2007 5:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What the hell is with the ads on the main page
at the end of each post???  Those are such an eyesore.

by azruavatar on Nov 12, 2007 7:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i noticed that...
it reminded me a bit of mlbtraderumors; whatever it takes to get the content we get here is fine with me
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Nov 12, 2007 9:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

relax, i'll explain it tomorrow
it's an SB Nation initiative --- VEB is one of the rollout sites.

by lboros on Nov 12, 2007 11:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ehhh
that probably came across like me bitching more than I intended it too.  they caught me off guard.

by azruavatar on Nov 13, 2007 12:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Looper
is best kept till the trade deadline 5.5 wont buy much and it sure as hell wont get what we got out if looper last year.But if he is doing well at the break and we are out of it which will be the case he could bring in something good from sone one looking for a vet pitcher.

by cm1000 on Nov 12, 2007 8:09 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

when does the
free agnet period start??

by cm1000 on Nov 12, 2007 8:09 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

12/2
All important dates are here.

by liam on Nov 12, 2007 8:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it starts tomorrow
there's a 15 day window after the WS where teams have exclusive negotiating rights with their players but then it's open season.  12/1 is the last day for arbitration but if a player gets snapped up before that then it makes for an easy arbitration decision.

by azruavatar on Nov 12, 2007 8:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

isnt some of it just going through the motions?
I mean Mlbtraderumors saying that Glavine will sign with the braves..is it the NFL or NBA where they actually have prelim contracts and then make it official afterdeadline or is baseball stricter about it?
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punchinjudy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 12, 2007 9:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

players are not allowed to
talk about contracts with other teams until after the 15 days.  They can still meet with other teams but no discussions about potential contracts are supposed to take place.

by azruavatar on Nov 13, 2007 12:06 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ah so
ther can be some laboring but no deal talk..got ya
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punchinjudy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 13, 2007 1:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agent
cant spell

by cm1000 on Nov 12, 2007 8:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.
Start posting about the Cardinals »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Avatar_small
How to EASILY make tables for Fanposts
1753738656_110919ebe9_o_small
2010 Hot Stove Post #1: CHONE hitter projections

Recent FanPosts

Arch_small
Number 15
Small
Some thoughts on Holliday (and potential replacements)
Small
Ok let me try this again...
Knights-09_small
Disenchanted Blue Jays Fan Looking For A New Team
Painterlance_small
The Holliday Dilemma (Rocks Fan Perpsective)
375830-r1-025-11_011_small
Anybody read Bob Gibson's new book yet?
Flanders_small
Yadi2first
Small
40 Man Question..

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Jack_benny_small DanUpBaby

Editors

Bender1_small azruavatar

Adam1_small chuckb

Kid-a-bear_small the red baron