center pieces
a bit of housekeeping: i've been delinquent in posting all the SB Nation award results; missed both leagues' cy young award winners and the american league mvp. i'll toss those into a diary for your perusal. as long as we're on the subject, jim baker of Baseball Prospectus notes that troy tulowitzki had the 15th-most wins above replacement of any rookie in history (and 5th-most since world war 2) at 10.8. his main competition for the ROY, ryan braun, had the 21st-highest equivalent average for any rookie in history, at .326. both were historically significant 1st-year players; they should just name them co-winners.
from the very young to the very old: i've been musing on jim edmonds lately. if the cardinals are gonna make any serious dent in last season's 100-run negative differential, edmonds will have to account for a big chunk of the runs. at the start of last season i wrote that the fate of the st louis offense might depend on his health; that wasn't necessarily an overstatement. for his first 100 or so plate appearances, which amounted to edmonds' spring training (he didn't get his first exhibition AB until march 25), he couldn't hit and the cards couldn't score. once he got untracked, the offense was pretty good:
| AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | AVG | OBP | SLG | team R/G |
|||
| 2007 overall | 365 | 39 | 92 | 15 | 2 | 12 | 53 | 41 | .252 | .325 | .403 | 4.5 | ||
| 2007 thru 5/11 | 99 | 8 | 20 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 7 | 10 | .202 | .275 | .263 | 3.2 | ||
| 2007 after 5/11 | 266 | 31 | 72 | 14 | 1 | 11 | 46 | 31 | .271 | .343 | .455 | 4.9 | ||
| 2006 | 350 | 52 | 90 | 18 | 0 | 19 | 70 | 53 | .257 | .350 | .471 | 4.9 |
obviously he wasn't the only stl hitter who improved drastically after mid-may; no individual hitter could bring about a 50+ percent increase in scoring. but i'm a little struck by how much his line from the last 4.5 months of 2007 resembled his line from 2006. the 99 at-bat sample early last year, which occurred when edmonds was out of shape and still shaking off foot and shoulder surgeries, was pretty clearly an aberration. perhaps the company line --- that a healthier edmonds is poised to bounce back in 2008 --- isn't entirely out of whack. ZIPS projects edmonds to bounce back a ways toward the mean with a .247 / .344 / .440 line; that modest uptick in itself would translate into about 1 extra win in the standings. if he were to exceed that slightly --- say, to .260 / .360 / .460, replicating the level of production he sustained in 2006 and the last 2/3 of 2007 --- the cards would net another half a win. and if edmonds can stay on the field more regularly in 2008 and get 500+ plate appearances instead of 400+, we'd be looking at an offensive improvement on the order of 20 runs --- 20 percent of the cards' deficit from last year.
i don't want to sound too hopeful here; nearly all of edmonds' top 10 comparables at Baseball Reference nosedived in their late mid- to late 30s and never recovered. it's possible he will never be an above-average player again. it's also pretty clear that he can't hit left-handers anymore --- but the happy corollary is that he remains a pretty effective hitter vs right-handed pitching:
| AB | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | AVG | OBP | SLG | |||
| 2006-07 vs rhp | 538 | 151 | 27 | 2 | 25 | 94 | 78 | .281 | .369 | .478 | ||
| 2006-07 vs lhp | 177 | 31 | 6 | 0 | 6 | 29 | 16 | .175 | .239 | .311 |
edmonds had nearly 100 plate appearances vs left-handers last season; remove most of them from the equation in 2008, and edmonds' chances of posting an .820 ops aren't half bad. and if those opportunities went to a batter who can actually hit lefties, the cards might be looking at perhaps another 5 runs and another half-win --- likely one reason the cardinals (per mozeliak) are looking for a right-handed-hitting outfielder who's more potent than so taguchi. st louis centerfielders posted a .747 ops last year; with a little luck and the right personnel / management, they have a reasonable chance to get something in the .800 to .820 range from that position next season.
what rhb centerfielders are available? one's milton bradley (actually a switch-hitter, but he mashes left-handers), discussed at length here; another is jayson werth, who unless i'm mistaken is a free agent. a third possibility might be ryan spilborghs, who would have to be acquired via trade. this guy's season (.299 / .363 / .485) was only a bit of fluke; it's nearly in line with his major-league equivalents for 2005 and 2006. you can count on a line of .280 / .335 / .450 from this player with reasonable certainty; he's good vs left-handers and adequate in the outfield, will be 28 years old next year and has just over 1 year of service time, making him a cost-controlled player for the next 5 seasons. he's a younger, cheaper version of encarnacion --- and before you gag on that comparison, realize that he's got all encarnacion's good traits (a decent average, a little pop, a little speed, ability to play all 3 outfield positions) but none of his bad ones (a low obp, a 7-figure multiyear contract). the rockies don't need him, and they do need help in the bullpen and the back of the rotation; i wonder if they'd let us have him for brad thompson.
it would hardly solve all the cards' short-term problems to have edmonds producing at 2006 levels, with a competent platoon partner alongside him. but it would solve one problem. it seems safe to assume the team will be from 1 to 3 games better at that position in 2008.
i'm traveling today, so won't be showing up in the comments section till late in the day. don't forget to keep an eye on the readers' top 25 prospects poll at Future Redbirds.
0 recs |
60 comments
Comments
Werth has one more year
by wwbd on Nov 12, 2007 9:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Werth is a FA
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/philadelphia-phillies_18.html
by indakind on Nov 12, 2007 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't he
by nybirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Werth contract
However he is not listed as a free agent by MLB so that must mean he is still under club control due to lack of service time. He must have been non-tendered by LA making him a free agent with some arbitration time still available.
by indakind on Nov 12, 2007 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Philadelphia press
by MikeG on Nov 12, 2007 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wanted hime too
by Zubin on Nov 12, 2007 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More info
Grandpa was a Cardinal...Dick Schofield...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/schofdi01.shtml
Werth also mashes against lefties...
.375 BA, .467 OBP, .591 SLG, 1.058 OPS, 15/15 BB/K
Lest you think it was ballpark, he actually slugged higher on the road: .496/.415 road/home.
Another link:
by indakind on Nov 12, 2007 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Another is
by chuckb on Nov 12, 2007 10:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
A rested Jimmy
by Snacks LaPoint on Nov 12, 2007 10:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Go ahead and laugh...
What about a farewell tour for Reggie? I know he won't work as a platoon for Edmonds, and I'm not sure how his D would work out in RF but take a look at his numbers against lefties...Dude can still mash plus he costs us no talent and would sign for probably $2-3 Mil. Not to mention he's a great clubhouse guy.
One other concern is his legs, but I for one would like to see him as our 5th OFer.
by cardzfanbub on Nov 12, 2007 10:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Reggie
Milton Bradley will not even be available for 1/2 the season. If he is lucky he will be able to come back and play OK. Barry Bonds is a much, much better player than Milton Bradley and he had trouble hitting when he had knee problems and came back too soon. I think Milton would be a horrible idea coming off injury.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
by silent_bob on Nov 12, 2007 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
$2m to $3m
by sdrone on Nov 12, 2007 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Out of all these options....
That leaves Spilborghs -- if they could get him for a Brad Thompson I think I'd do that deal considering that Kinney is likely to be back to help out in the pen, and Franklin might get to audtion for a back of the rotation spot. On the face of it though, does Spilborghs give the Cards a lot more than Skip Schumaker? Skip's never gotten a lot of playing time in the majors, hits lefties adequetly, and doesn't cost them any players or money outside of the minimum salary.
Spilborghs 2007 - (.299/.363/.485) 264 AB's
Schumaker 2007 - (.333/.358/.458) 177 AB's
This is a small sample size for both, but
Obviously Skip is left-handed and isn't going to hit as many HR's as Spilborghs (althought Spilborghs never hit more than 15 at any minor league stop so I wonder if his 11 last year were a bit of aberration), but I'm not sure he's worth trading for if they have to give up more than a Thompson type.
by fourstick on Nov 12, 2007 12:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Isn't a pitcher like Thompson
Isn't that more important than a 5th OFer?
by airhad on Nov 12, 2007 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
If Reyes or a Reyes and throwaway package could net a Spillborough type, sure. Not saying that could get it done necessarily, but that's all I'd offer.
by stl tyler on Nov 12, 2007 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Myself...
by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 12, 2007 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
humm....
STL needs to start drafting the best available pitcher in the draft even if it is a HS kid. They need to start drafting high ceilings.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 13, 2007 12:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs trade Jacque Jones
The Cubs were able to dump Jacque Jones' $5 M for next year. Getting Omar Infante was somewhat of bonus, though they'll probably have to pay him about $1.5 M for 2008.
This is the kind of deal that I was hoping the Cardinals would do LAST year for JuanEnc, or this off-season. Aaron Miles' foul ball ruined Juan's life and that chance.
This is also the kind of deal I hope they pull off for Braden Looper. They need to move him while his value is high just to get rid of his salary and maybe pickup a spare part in return.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 1:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great move
by silent_bob on Nov 12, 2007 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not neccesarily
Jones last season was a plus glove in center field, and during the second half hit .332/.374/.458. There's no way the Cubs made the post-season without Jones.
Not saying he's an All-Star or anything, just saying that he gets a bad rap from Cubs fans and he doesn't really deserve it. Overpaid a little; maybe. This trade would be fine as a pure salary dump, but it appears now that the Cubs are sending cash to Detroit. No word on how much.
Meanwhile, Hendry gets to add to his collection of mediocre middle infielders. Seriously--Theriot, Fontenot, Cedeno, DeRosa, and now Infante? Don't get it.
by stl tyler on Nov 12, 2007 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mediocre
If Eck leaves even with Eck here I may argue that Theriot & Derosa are better than anyone the Cardinals can put in the middle infield. Seriously who could the Cards put out there that would preform better than Theriot or Derosa.
I have said for a while the Cardinals MI situation is not good. Even if Hoffpauir is around he is not better than Derosa or Theriot.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you mean defensively
Player AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG
Theriot 537 80 143 30 2 3 45 49 50 .266 .326 .346
Miles 414 55 120 16 1 2 32 25 40 .290 .328 .348
Theriot stole a great number of bases, but he was also pretty terrible in the 2nd half with his bat. Take out his red-hot July and he finishes the season a .250 hitter with 1 HR.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heck, let's throw in little David Eckstein
Player AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG
Theriot 537 80 143 30 2 3 45 49 50 .266 .326 .346
Miles 414 55 120 16 1 2 32 25 40 .290 .328 .348
Ecktein 434 58 134 23 0 3 31 24 22 .309 .356 .382
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You got me!
People have been wanting Brendan Ryan to play SS?? he is no better than Theriot and as you said throw out a hot month and Theriot probably hits .255 with 2HR. You know what he is basically the exact same player as Ryan. How can people say they want Brendan Ryan to play SS?
by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan is no better than Theriot?
Major League Totals - 1 Season(s) - .289/.347/.406
Minor League Totals - 5 Season(s) - .296/.344/.382
Eck
Major League Totals - 7 Season(s) - .286 .351 .362
Minor League Totals - 4 Season(s) - .294 .415 .391
looks like a eck to me. Only for 1/10th the cost.
On a side note. Eck had a .415 OBP in the minors?!? I guess it was easy to walk in the minors when you are 3 feet tall.
by Harknights on Nov 12, 2007 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You and I
The Cardinals MI is not stellar. Come on the Cardinals should not take pride in stating that they have a couple guys who put up better stats than Theriot, and may I say not a lot better.
I think that
Ryan
Hoffpauir
Miles
Eck
Barden
Is not going to get it done. How mediocre is that group?
by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never said
by stl tyler on Nov 12, 2007 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jones for Infante
by lightbulb on Nov 12, 2007 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Braden Looper
After all, he's a cheap starting pitcher who's at least league average. That's a pretty damn valuable commodity.
by airhad on Nov 12, 2007 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but at 5.5 M
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I want to see what Looper can do
by Red Blazer on Nov 12, 2007 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jimmy
by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 2:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Braun is ROY
by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 2:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think Braun as ROTY
He won by 2 points. Such a shame.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Braun
However I think Braun is the "true" Rookie of the year.
Tulo played 25 games and got 96 AB's in 2006. So it's not like he was fresh meat in 2007. I think 2006 gave him a distinct advantage getting his feet wet. Now if he only got 15 AB's in 2006 it would be a bit different.
Braun made his "MLB Debut" May 25th 2007. All you have to do is look at what he did after that.
Now I think the ROY rules are stupid. In fairness to Braun he did not get the advantage Tulo did. Tulo had 25 games and 96 AB in 2006 as a warm up. I don't think he should have been eligible for ROY. They need some other Category for guys like Tulo.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to disagree with you there
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 12, 2007 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Overall very, very goodness?
Braun was the worst. I'll call that ineptness.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 12, 2007 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're making it sound like
Should Tulo have won? Yeah probably...from an objective standpoint the guy had a better all around season. But in all honesty, these guys were so close that had it gone the other way there would have been plenty of folks saying that Braun got screwed. Like I said earlier, this was a case where Tulo was 1, and Braun was 1a. Its like choosing between a Filet Mignon and a TBone. The filet is incredibly good, and amazing, and you'd rather have it...but if you get a TBone are you going to flip shit, start throwing stuff, scream, yell, and claim you got screwed? No, you're going to say mmm yum TBone and you'll eat it quite happily.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 12, 2007 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
100% agree.
by Zubin on Nov 12, 2007 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
However I mentioned that I don't think Tulo is a "True" rookie. He is a rookie based on some MLB rule but I hardly consider a guy coming into a new season after having 96 ABS and playing 25 games a rookie.
I consider Braun to be a "True" rookie as he made his MLB debut this year.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 12, 2007 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No had Mike Pelfrey won
The guy that should have finished 2nd winning an award like this is forgetful.
Yadi not having a GG is a shame.
Mike stat just for kicks
by Harknights on Nov 12, 2007 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lol
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 12, 2007 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell is with the ads on the main page
by azruavatar on Nov 12, 2007 7:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i noticed that...
by bigcardsfan5 on Nov 12, 2007 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
relax, i'll explain it tomorrow
by lboros on Nov 12, 2007 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ehhh
by azruavatar on Nov 13, 2007 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Looper
by cm1000 on Nov 12, 2007 8:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think it starts tomorrow
by azruavatar on Nov 12, 2007 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
isnt some of it just going through the motions?
by punchinjudy on Nov 12, 2007 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
players are not allowed to
by azruavatar on Nov 13, 2007 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ah so
by punchinjudy on Nov 13, 2007 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs



















