Andruw Jones

15M+years

Andruw is making 13.5M and is expecting a raise, thus the reason the Braves won't go after him. If he would accept a discount it would be from the most likely. I would like him for 12M/yr for 2 years but he will want more for longer so I say we look at him but eventually pass.

by StLHugo on Oct 3, 2007 8:00 AM EDT reply actions

Andruw Jones

Had a really lousy year at the plate. He ended the season with a .222 batting average, and a less than inspiring .724 OPS. To put that in perspective, David Eckstein's was .015 higher.

We need less struggling veterans, not more.

by stl tyler on Oct 3, 2007 8:17 AM EDT reply actions

Jones or Rowand

I want one of the 2. Jones could hit 4 and give Albert some protection.

Come on You Redbirds--Mike Shannon

by BluesDrummer85 on Oct 3, 2007 9:17 AM EDT reply actions

Torii Hunter

please.

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Oct 3, 2007 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions

Except he doesn't do that much protecting

He's coming off of a horrific season and is just .263 .342 .497 .839 for his career. He's not that special at the plate.

Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Oct 3, 2007 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Neither

Why would we want to sign a FA center fielder for an expensive, long-term deal? You sign vets in positions where you don't have young, cheap talent coming up through your system.

by stl tyler on Oct 3, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Why not?

Colby Rasmus could be anywhere from an above average MLB player to a superstar OF for St. Louis. But, for him to do that, it'll be 2009 before he is a rookie and probably 2010 before he gets 'into the swing of things'.

So, why not sign Andruw Jones to a 5 year, $100 M deal? Structure it just like Carlos Lee's contract:

08:$11M
09:$12M
10:$18.5M
11:$18.5M
12:$18.5M
13:$18.5M

In 2010, Andruw Jones will be 33 years old with 3 years left on his contract. If he returns to hitting 50+ HRs a year, you move that contract off the books and you get what every team seems to get from the Cardinals for veteran players: talented prospects. If not, you eat $20 M of that $55.5 M remaining and still try to move the contract elsewhere.

You hope that for the 2008, 2009, 2010 Cardinals, you've gotten a corner OF right hand power bat that can still play above average defense and hit you about 30 HRs and drive in 100 RBIs. Then you dump that (what will be considered modest) contract on someone else and hope to find a plus prospect out of the deal.

That's one way of doing things.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 3, 2007 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Boras

Is pushing for a seven year contract for Jones, at just under 20M annually.

Jones had a really subpar 2007, and I'm not convinced he's a good candidate to bounce back. To me, it seems like this contract would be more or less the same thing as Edmonds playing for another five or six seasons, but for more money. Just doesn't make sense.

by stl tyler on Oct 3, 2007 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Uhh

I'd put it at conservatively around 25% that Colby Rasmus doesn't turn into a productive major league player, and probably even higher for doing so with the Cardinals.

Prospects Bust. A lot.

Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Oct 4, 2007 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions

With the presence of Rasmus

do we really want another vet on the downward slide blocking him? We have enough problems with Edmonds...why add another possible one at more than 13 mil a year?

Let me get this straight...Rowand over Pujols??? Really, Tony?

by cardzfan24 on Oct 3, 2007 9:37 AM EDT reply actions

If the question is

"how do we get younger", how does Andruw Jones answer that question?

He's what, 32? And he'll get a 5-6 year contract. This is a backward move, not one that improves the team. It takes us closer to being the Giants -- w/o the good, young, starting pitching.

by chuckb on Oct 3, 2007 9:52 AM EDT reply actions

He's 30

not arguing your point, just really surprised he's just thirty. Seems like I've been watching him since I was a kid, he's played twelve seasons, started when he was 18.

I love lamp

by Some witty name on Oct 3, 2007 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Boras

Is his agent and has started the bidding at $20MM per year and I think 5+ years.

This is a no-brainer. He has been in decline for several years, his defense is slipping, he has been terrible with RISP and he has never been accused of being a hard worker. $100,000,000+ for that? Easy decision, the Braves did the smart thing. Ludwick, Duncan and Ankiel would probably put up comparable numbers in 2008 offensively and although Jones is superior defensively, his range has dwindled over time. Hunter or Rowand would be better fits, but this team does not need to go out and get a center fielder, much less, overpay for a declining one.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Oct 3, 2007 10:25 AM EDT reply actions

Stark wrote about how Andruw Jones

is greatly overrated. A trapping many fall into is that a player that is overrated is not devoid of talent. He just isn't the level of talent many think him to be.

Andruw Jones doesn't cover the ground he used to and his approach at the plate is "I'm going to try to hit a HR everytime".

He's not worth $20 M. He is worth $15 M but for the Cardinals, that would be $15 M sunk into CF THIS year and the RF in 2009 when Rasmus comes up to St. Louis. This helps solve one of Jones' major faults: range.

I'm not advocating signing Andruw Jones but this team HAS to find another player that can hit 30+ HRs if they hope to survive. Thier pitching isn't going to keep them in a lot of ballgames, they can't hope to be the San Diego Padres.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 3, 2007 11:05 AM EDT reply actions

No Jones

If there's such a thing as an "empty" 30 homers, Andruw Jones could provide it. His run production for the team is abysmal outside of his homers because his average and patience are so low. He hits tons of popups and weak fly balls in efforts of reaching the fences, and these trends are going steadily up. This was pointed out rather convincingly when he and Albert were at the forefront of the MVP race.

Besides, give Chris Duncan another year of maturity and the 150 more at bats against lefties that he was denied this year, and he's your 30-homer-hitting cleanup guy. Leave Ankiel in the 2 hole and get a leadoff hitter (paging Rafael Furcal?) and you have the most important part of the lineup pretty well sealed.

Rather than saddle the team with a boat anchor contract for an outfielder - as the Carlos Lee contract will also become for the Astros - we should solve the second half of the problem as you state it.

Spend the money on top tier pitching. That's our team's biggest need by far.

by taiko on Oct 4, 2007 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions

You assume that Chris Duncan's massive

slump was only related to his lower body injury. You also assume that Rick Ankiel's hard reversion to the mean after the HGH scandal was just a blip and won't happen again.

The Cardinals keep expecting alot out of guys with no track record.

Carlos Lee's contract will become a boat anchor because Carlos Lee is unatheletic and getting fatter by the day. There will always be a market for Andruw Jones.

Andruw Jones' empty 30 HRs a year is going to turn into an empty 550+ HR career.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 4, 2007 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions

There are better options than Jones

I don't know if Duncan's really the solid #4 we're looking at, but I think he's got a better shot at being that guy next year than Jones does. Look no further than this year's stats.

Jones, in 659 at bats, hit .222/.311/.413 with 26hr. (OPS .724)

Duncan, in 432 at bats, hit .259/.354/.480 with 21hr. (OPS .832)

Slump or not, there's every reason to believe that with an extra 200 at bats Duncan would have outperformed Jones in every offensive category.

Jones still has great defensive stats, but he's in full decline offensively. Jim Edmonds posted a higher OPS. So did every St. Louis outfielder this season that wasn't named Taguchi or Wilson.

I'm not against signing a bat in the outfield by any means. I'd like to see it happen, but locking up Jones long term is a bad idea. Jones is coming off of a year in which he's had career lows across the board. I'm not so sure there'll always be a market for Andruw Jones. If the home runs drop off at all the only real edge he has over the Juan Encarnacions of the world is gone. Aaron Rowand, Torii Hunter, and Mike Cameron are all FA's that had better years than Jones.

If we're going to add an outfielder I'd be more inclined to look at a couple of the trade possibilities, like Jason Bay and Carlos Quentin. Bay put up numbers slightly better than Jones, and salary wise would cost about 15m less. Quentin has a pretty bad year himself, but he's young and wouldn't cost a lot, and put up some pretty major minor league stats. A Duncan/Rasmus/Quentin outfield could be around and productive for a long time.

Given, if Jones shows up here next season and knocks 40 home runs I'll glady eat crow on this.

by stl tyler on Oct 4, 2007 6:33 AM EDT up reply actions

Show me

Show me evidence that Chris Duncan's slump (two months) is more than just injury-related, when he had put together 162 consecutive games of hitting better than 900 OPS. Show me evidence beyond a 25-at bat "blip" that Ankiel is not a major league hitter, or can't succeed in the 2 hole, when his production both before (when he carried the team) and after (raising his average 20 points in ten games) those at bats says otherwise.

To my mind, the evidence against signing Andruw Jones to a long term megabucks contract -- namely his thoroughly awful year this year, which cannot be attributed to any injury or extrenal cause -- is much heftier than the evidence against penciling these two into our lineup for '08.

by taiko on Oct 4, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah

cause Rick Ankiel's body of work which includes a major flame out as a pitcher, a Dave Kingman type offensive approach and an apparent inability to take the proper route to flyballs helps show that those 25 at-bats were just a blip. And I believe it was a 55 at-bat blip if I remember correctly.

Call up PJ Walters!

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 4, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think it "proves" anything,

necessarily, but the fact that the start of the slump happened to coincide exactly with the HGH report, and immediately following a career day in which he was clearly seeing the ball incredibly well, makes it highly likely that they are correlated.

It's obviously impossible to determine exactly when the slump "ended", though it is clear when it began; assuming you consider it ending with the 2-hit game at chicago, it would be 29PA:

(the HGH report came out after the game on 6 SEP):

9 Aug - 6 Sep .358/.409/.765 1.174 OPS (90 PA)
7 Sep - 15 Sep .069/.069/.069 .138 OPS (29 PA)
16 Sep - 30 Sep .290/.328/.452 .780 OPS (66 PA)

But then he went 3 for his next 22 after that, so you could also make the case that it ended during the houston series, in which case it was indeed 55.

7 Sep - 21 Sep .127/.169/.164 .333 OPS (55 PA)
23 Sep - 30 Sep .361/.378/.583 .962 OPS (37 PA)

Full Season .285/.328/.535 .863 OPS (185 PA)

He's not going to be an 1.175 OPS guy, but he's certainly not a .138 OPS guy either. "Reversion to the mean" does not come close to describing what happened to Ankiel this september imo.

by SleepyCA on Oct 4, 2007 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions

NO JONES

Please, do not sign Andruw Jones. His OPS+ was 88 this year. Not including Kennedy, Miles, and Cairo (who all played 1 inning or less of OF this year for the Cardinals) only Juan Encarnacion and Preston Wilson had a lower OPS+ than Jones in our outfield this year. Yes, that includes Taguchi and Schumaker.

Also, his range factor in CF this year was 2.59 and his fielding % was .995. He had 3 assists from CF in 1300+ innings. Compare that to our current CFs. Edmonds had only 800+ innings and had 8 assists, a 2.74 range factor, but a .981 fielding %. Taguchi played just under 400 innings and had 1 assist, a 2.82 range factor, and a .992 fielding %. Ankield had no errors and 1 assist, but a lower range factor. Schumaker and Ludwick had the highest range factors, with no assists and no errors in a combined 86 innings.

(I know many people believe that the defensive stats are a little out-dated, but I don't know any better ones.)

So in other words, he'd be making the same amount as the rest of our outfield combined to be older, slower, and not hit or field as well.

No thanks!

stlfan

by stlfan on Oct 3, 2007 11:08 AM EDT reply actions

Why on earth do you want him?

We already have one has-been gold glove in center.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Oct 3, 2007 3:13 PM EDT reply actions

No! No! No!

Please folks, stop suggesting these high priced center field signings. Have you all forgot about Colby Rasmus? He could be here as early as next september. Our problem this year was not hitting, and that was even with all of the injuries we had. If our team shows up somewhat healthy next year, and I repeat, SOMEWHAT healthy, we'll be fine.

You want to spend Andruw Jones money? Spend it on pitching! We need pitching. Our staff is horrible and suffering from possible career ending injuries. We can have a formidable line-up with the hitting we have right now, but in terms of pitching, they still don't stand a chance. We have plenty of outfielding, and really shouldn't worry about that right now.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Oct 3, 2007 3:36 PM EDT reply actions

I do not see the need

to spend huge money on starting pitching. Especially with this crop. There's a lot of miles on those arms out there this year - with a few exceptions.

Just me...

there is no secret weapon...there is only Oquendo.

by bukowski on Oct 3, 2007 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm not suggesting

to go blow it on one guy, but we could use that money to take on someone via trade, or to add a couple Ted Lilly types if we'd like.

My point is that Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Aarond Rowand, etc. aren't worth our money, as they aren't needed by us right now.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Oct 3, 2007 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd say

the Walt firing puts the kibosh on any sign-Andruw Jones ideas.

by chuckb on Oct 3, 2007 6:14 PM EDT reply actions

Allow me to edit the post...

in light of the jocketty thing.

My guess is that the signing of veterans is going to be the exception and not the rule that it was under Walt.

However, he's a big bat - and, regardless of what Stark has said, he is still an above average CF.

It depends on the strategy of management now - is it to win in 2008, or is it to win from 2009 through 2012?

there is no secret weapon...there is only Oquendo.

by bukowski on Oct 3, 2007 9:36 PM EDT reply actions

if you are going to sign

a center fielder, for the love of every thing holy please let it be Torii Hunter. there may be better players by the numbers out there, but i just love how the guy plays the game. he can hit for average & power. he can run, he's got a great arm. he gets along great with every one, he wont be a club house cancer, he's a natural leader. basicially he's every thing we would want in a Cardinal.

plus he's from Pine Bluff Arkansas.
hellooooooooooo home team discount.

plus#2 unlike Andruw, he hasn't lost a step or 5

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Oct 4, 2007 4:12 AM EDT reply actions