Tigers sign Renteria

Dude get out of my head...

Just missed posting this first. Oh well someone please rip my post down.

The Red Blazer

by Red Blazer on Oct 29, 2007 4:31 PM EDT reply actions

same

I had to go get a link from the Freep so I took too long

by StLHugo on Oct 29, 2007 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Heh

Do I get a prize for being first?

Let the hot stove fever begin.

In the spirit of discussion, does anyone know anything about Jurrjens and Hernandez? What kind of prospects did the Tigers give up here.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Oct 29, 2007 4:37 PM EDT reply actions

john sickels had them listed #4 and #5

in the detroit system --- both grade B prospects.

kevin goldstein lists hernandez as a "very good prospect," 3d in the detroit system, and jurrjens as a "good" prospect, 4th in the system.

hernandez --- http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/H/Gorkys-Hernandez.shtml

jurrjens --- http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/J/jair-jurrjens.shtml

the cardinals never could have matched an offer like this.

by lboros on Oct 29, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions

an interesting thing

about this trade is that both of the guys the Tigers traded were undrafted free agents. Jurrjens is from Curacao and hernandez from venezuela.

I'm not sure that (Hamilton or Jay) + (Ottavino or Garcia) wouldn't have been pretty close to this in terms of actual talent, but it would have been a lot more costly to us due to the lack of depth in our system. Things like this make the lack of a serious Latin American recruiting program during the WJ era stand out even more imho...

by SleepyCA on Oct 29, 2007 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed!

The Cardinals need to do a much better job in LA (latin america). We can get like 3 players to one American player.

In my opinion the fastes way to decline this day and age is to not scout Latin American well. Unless you are Boston or the Yankees you need to find the best value and Latin America is the best value.

by ICbirdfan on Oct 29, 2007 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Neither Hamilton nor Jay

can approach Hernandez in terms of a prospect. Plus, Hernandez is a legit CF -- a premium position. Jay's probably a LF and Hamilton's probably a DH. Jay's probably a borderline top 10 prospect in our system, and Hamilton's a couple of rungs above him -- but in an overall weaker system.

Plus, Jurrjens is ready to take a spot in the Braves' rotation next year. Garcia's at least a year away and Ottavino even further. The Tigers' offer is considerably better.

by chuckb on Oct 29, 2007 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions

I some ways

I am happy they couldn't because while the Cards might not have a ton of great prospects, players like Duncan and Perez are too valuable to such a talent poor organization.

by JMedwick on Oct 29, 2007 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions

And mlbtraderumors

Has updated their article to answer my question.

Jurrjens is a 22 year old pitcher with middle of rotation stuff. Some injury concerns, throws in the 90-93 range. Considered MLB ready. Sounds similar to Anthony Reyes circa mid-2006--an untested pitcher with good stuff who could jump into the back end of the rotation or be used out of the bullpen. Lots of these guys floating around, doesn't seem like too big of a loss for the Tigers.

On the other hand, Hernandez ranks among the 10 best CF prospects. He's 20 and a few years away from the show, but seems like a lot to give up for one year of Renteria. I guess when you're in win-now mode, you're in win-now mode, but this guy could be Atlanta's center fielder for a long, long time. Or it's possible that he could be moved to a corner spot, as one of the CF's ahead of him on the prospect list is the Braves' own Jordan Schaefer.

We couldn't have matched that deal, or at least I wouldn't want us to. Sounds like they would have wanted Reyes and Rasmus. No thank you.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Oct 29, 2007 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Bummer

I guess I need a new sig.

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Oct 29, 2007 5:19 PM EDT reply actions

Is Carlos Guillen a free agent?

what's the deal there?

by silent_bob on Oct 29, 2007 5:20 PM EDT reply actions

they re-signed him last year

looking at Cot's contracts (who already has the Renteria deal updated - amazing) Guillen is signed through 2010. Inge is signed through '09, as is Polanco. Interesting.

by silent_bob on Oct 29, 2007 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions

And I forgot

Guillen is their 1B now. Good deal for the Tigers who have alot of vets and need go for it again the next 2 years.

by silent_bob on Oct 29, 2007 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh, really?

So is Casey gone?

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Oct 29, 2007 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Seems to take them out of the ARod race

by CardFaninVA on Oct 29, 2007 5:23 PM EDT reply actions

I'm sure...

they wouldn't mind upgrading from Brandon Inge at 3B...

by joeyart on Oct 29, 2007 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions

i sorta hope the phillies get arod

just because a) the cards aren't getting him, and b) that would be without a doubt the most ridiculous infield of all time.

Hello, playoff watching

by nycbirdo on Oct 29, 2007 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions

actually

that would be funny, but that's not really what i want. either go to a losing team or stay in the al, please.

Hello, playoff watching

by nycbirdo on Oct 29, 2007 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions

That Lineup

Would be terrifying to pitch to. You could start the lineup off w/ four infielders, all with 20+ home run power (2 w/ 50 HR power), two of them switch hitters, three of them plus athletes...Plus they'd have Pat the Bat and The Flying Hawai'ian, who aren't too bad themselves.

by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 29, 2007 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions

If the Phillies got ARod and kept

the same pitching staff intact, they would start winning 12-8 instead of 10-8. It's damn near impossible to get that line up out-except when Pat the Bat is in a slump, then he makes 2 of the 3 outs in the inning. The other out is made by the pitcher.......

by jillsinmo on Oct 30, 2007 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Jack Wilson it is

~'snicker'~

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 29, 2007 6:40 PM EDT reply actions

Please loard no

God I hope you are joking. I don't see him being much better than Eck and he is about about as expensive so I just don't understand how Jack makes the Birds much better.

by ICbirdfan on Oct 30, 2007 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions

And now it's Polanco and Renteria

together again.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 29, 2007 6:40 PM EDT reply actions

Just glad that deals done

so we can stop the speculation. I'll bet Eck is happy for the same reason.

It might have been nice to get him back, but I wish he had never left.

Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Oct 29, 2007 8:17 PM EDT reply actions

If they want a veteran...

I think that this strengthens Eckstein's position for sure. If the "new" TLR can deal with putting Ryan in there, that would be great. My best guess is that any chance of a 1 year deal for Eck is out the window now. He can force them to sign him for at least 2 or maybe more years or some combo plus options. The only way out of that is if they find someone to step in cheaper, or go with the kids.

by dralexp on Oct 29, 2007 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Antonnetti...

He won't be signing Eck to a multi-year deal...I can assure you that.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 29, 2007 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Whose idea was it in Cleveland

to give Paul Byrd $8 M a year to be almost league average? GMs make mistakes, no matter how intelligent they are.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 30, 2007 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions

Totally different situation...

The Indians had room in the budget for Byrd and really didn't need anything else but a reliable starter.

If we were set at as many positions as the Indians were, and didn't have so much payroll tied up...signing eck wouldn't be a terrible idea(ok, I still think it would). However, we have more holes than a slice of swiss cheese and 85% to 90% of our payroll is already committed.

Context

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 30, 2007 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Oh...and BTW

I wouldn't call Paul Byrd a mistake. He was a pretty safe bet to be league average (which he has been) and he's given them 370 innings the past 2 years.

Also, '08 is an option (8M) with a nothing buyout.

I'd say CLE did just fine in that deal.

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 30, 2007 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions

His ERA+

went from 113 the year before acquiring the 35 year old pitcher to 93 to 100. His ERA (in the same league) went from 3.74 the year before acquiring to 4.88 to 4.59. His WHiP went from 1.194 the year before acquiring to 1.508 to 1.388.

All for the nice sum of $14 M, if they buy him out this coming year.

So, if the Cardinals signed a 35 year old starting pitcher for a 2 year deal at $14 M (with option) to have 2 of the worst seasons of his career, you'd think it a smart move?

I'm not saying this is Antietam's fault, I don't know that he made this deal or not. But it just shows that thinking Antebellum wouldn't make a mistake of resigning the 33 year old David Eckstein to a 2 year deal when he hasn't even been hired yet is pretty bold.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 30, 2007 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions

In short...

yes, i would think it's a smart move.

If the Cardinals were able to get a pitcher coming off 3 consecutive years of sub 4 ERA's for 2 yrs and 14M. I'd probably do a happy dance.

It's a hell of alot better then giving Pineiro virtually the same deal for 3 consecutive years of 6.36, 5.03, and 4.33 respectively.

Which move looks like a mistake not knowing the results of either?

"I'm hungry. Not for food. Just for baseball" Amaury Cazana Marti

by bobbyballgame1 on Nov 1, 2007 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Not sure who's idea it was

but Antonetti has a boss in Cleveland

by nybirdfan on Oct 30, 2007 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions

True

that would be like blaming Mozeliak for the Mulder deal or the Wells signing, etc.

by StLHugo on Oct 30, 2007 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Latin American scouting

Not sure of the particulars, but I know the Rockies' recent surge can partly be attributed to their focus on Latin American scoutinng. Ubaldo Jiminez, Manny Corpas and Franklin Morales all recent signings. They might have all been undrafted FA's as well. Sorry if this has been posted previously.

But seems to be one of the quickest ways to increase prospect depth. Not that it's any big secret....;)

by DenverCardsFan on Oct 30, 2007 1:32 AM EDT reply actions

it's time

a lot of Cards fan let Edgar go. if he wanted to be a Cardinal, he would be a Cardinal.

if you think about it, he screwed us twice. first by taking $1million more from bean town & saying they wanted him more. and that opened the door for Walt to do his worst trade ever. remember Walt said if they had signed Edgar the Cards couldn't afford to trade for Mulder.

who did the Cards send the A's again? Barton, Kiko, and some other dude who's name escapes me. i think he was a throw in. some starting pitcher who didnt really mesh with Dave.

screw job # 2. thanks for nothing Edgar.

let it go people. let it go.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Oct 30, 2007 1:54 AM EDT reply actions

Huh?

I don't understand how Edgar screwed us, it was a TRADE not a signing he had nothing to do with it.

by StLHugo on Oct 30, 2007 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah,

I wish he never left, but I don't blame him for taking the money (i would have, too). I wish he would have come back this offseason, but that was out of his control, too (and also not worth two of our top four prospects). But I still miss my sweet little Colombian.

Now to begin the Miggy Tejada push!

Well, let's go to the old mill anyway -- get some cider!

by Alxfritz on Oct 30, 2007 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions

oh, shit...

... if Renteria commanded those two guys, Tejada will cost our whole farm system.

by kindred on Oct 30, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions

if Edgar never would have left,

Walt never would have traded for Mulder. Walt said himself many times the only way the
Cards could afford to take on Mulders salary was Edgar leaving for more money.

that's how he screwed us twice.

if Edgar never leaves, Mulder is somebody elses problem &
Dan Haren is at the top of our rotation while Carp heals.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Oct 31, 2007 4:56 AM EDT up reply actions